Isaiah Simmons would be nice, but what if Derrick Brown falls to the Browns at No. 10?

Tour2ma

I don't have Simmons on my board. Folks are enamored with his athleticism, but he's an athlete in search of a position.

Talk of him playing Safety is ludicrous and he's not strong enough to flourish in the box.

Derrick Brown? I'd consider him at #10 if both my OTs, Burrow and Young were gone. If Brown were gone, then I'd also consider Kinlaw, but either IDL would be competing with trade-down offers for value.

TexasAg1969

@the-gipper said:

The sooner you guys all sign up for the Browns Board Mock Draft, the sooner we can see who the Browns will take....at least according to that. Only 10 teams have been picked up so far, so the field is wide open for all y'all.

I sense a lack of enthusiasm for the BB mock this year. I guess last year we were all expecting much bigger things than were actually delivered and so the ship of fools is kind of floundering this year. Can't blame anybody for a ho hum here we are again kind of malaise. Think I'll have glass of wine and go to bed.?

Orion

@tour2ma said:

I don't have Simmons on my board. Folks are enamored with his athleticism, but he's an athlete in search of a position.

....and that's the thing. Where does he 'really' play? Jack of all trades, master of none?

gumby73

Jacks of all trades.. are now called nfl hybrid jokers..bet joe woods can find a place for a top 5 nfl prospect.. https://pff.com/news/college-football-clemsons-isaiah-simmons-is-the-perfect-modern-day-linebacker

I now could see the Lions #3, trading out to the highest bidder of #5 Mia. or LAC#6 to draft Herbert at #3..Lions needs should go.. Simmons or Okuda at #5 or 6..

read ya, Hog Molly Friday ?

calfoxwc

@tour2ma said:

I don't have Simmons on my board. Folks are enamored with his athleticism, but he's an athlete in search of a position.

Talk of him playing Safety is ludicrous and he's not strong enough to flourish in the box.

Derrick Brown? I'd consider him at #10 if both my OTs, Burrow and Young were gone. If Brown were gone, then I'd also consider Kinlaw, but either IDL would be competing with trade-down offers for value.

Dumb? question:

Simmons, 6'3"/6'4", 230-238 lbs, 92.5 coverage grade, NFL.com grade 7.02..., legit 4.4 speed. 104 tackles (16½ for losses), eight sacks, three interceptions and eight pass break-ups. I agree he won't play safety - but I think he can be all pro as a coverage lb, sideline to sideline play stopper - and behind the los play disrupter. Is it far fetched to see him as a Ray Lewis type player? Lewis was very ,very fast, 6'1", 240. I'd hate to pass on a player that could end up all pro.

Tour2ma

Not dumb...

I see 6'1, 240 and think "power"... especially when I know it's Ray Ray being described. He ran a 4.58 at the Combine. His gift was read and react... and shed and destroy.

I see 6'4, 235 and think "rangey"... a very different player. I agree the coverage is there, but I know I run at him early and often if I am game-planning against him.

Don't worry... we'll pass on a bunch of All-Pros. What's worse is spending a #1 on a player who does not make All-Pro.

@gumby73 said:

Jacks of all trades.. are now called nfl hybrid jokers..bet joe woods can find a place for a top 5 nfl prospect.. https://pff.com/news/college-football-clemsons-isaiah-simmons-is-the-perfect-modern-day-linebacker

I now could see the Lions #3, trading out to the highest bidder of #5 Mia. or LAC#6 to draft Herbert at #3..Lions needs should go.. Simmons or Okuda at #5 or 6..

I've read the PFF... just not sold. I did not see Simmons' impact in either of Clemson's playoff games this year.

A lot of the sims I've run keep having Simmons go to NYG at #4.

CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS

I don’t know if we have the luxury of drafting a defensive player with such a need for an LT. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a trade up a few spots

Louisville Slugger

I've been a huge fan of Derrick Brown since last year. I think hes a safe pick and would be happy if hes our guy... but Kinlaw is a guy that I think might be a star. He is just as big as Brown but Kinlaw is more explosive. I haven't had time to do a ton of research yet but Kinlaw jumps off the screen.

Also I'm not a huge fan of these OTs (I haven't watched any of Wirfs so I cant knock him). Bectons potential is nice but as a Louisville fan I've seen how awful that Oline has been. Last year was a vast improvement but Petrino didnt even try his last few years here. I would get an old vet for a year and get a developmental guy in the middle rounds. I think Lamm might actually be a decent fit at RT in this zone scheme.

SdBacker80

I’m not crazy about Simmons. If he was an elite pass rusher coupled with his coverage skills I’d be there but then he would also be a top 5 pick.

And I hate picking Olineman in the first round.

Back in the day Joe Thomas was a no brainer he was a complete player even with AP there- I was okay with that.

Cam Erving? No thanks and look what happened.

Alex Mack? I was still thinking nope but he turned out well.

Truth is we’ve hit on more than we missed compared to any other position.

Id stay at 10 or fall back a bit and take the best OT. Unless for some strange reason we can move up and take either Ohio state defender Young or Okudah. I don’t think either will happen but I’d give up quite a bit to get Young.

SdBacker80

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

I don’t know if we have the luxury of drafting a defensive player with such a need for an LT. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a trade up a few spots

It seems like there are no elite LT and quite a few rated around each other Becton, Thomas, Wirfs, Wills, Jones. None of these guys IMO are worth trading up for. In fact, I’m sure the Browns have crossed 2/3 off the list and they may not even be the guys other teams want which would easily have them fall back some spots and take one.

there are 3 or 4 QB hungry teams right in row behind us maybe one of them moves into our spot and we still can take one of those mentioned above

SdBacker80

@calfoxwc said:

Dumb? question:

Simmons, 6'3"/6'4", 230-238 lbs, 92.5 coverage grade, NFL.com grade 7.02..., legit 4.4 speed. 104 tackles (16½ for losses), eight sacks, three interceptions and eight pass break-ups. I agree he won't play safety - but I think he can be all pro as a coverage lb, sideline to sideline play stopper - and behind the los play disrupter. Is it far fetched to see him as a Ray Lewis type player? Lewis was very ,very fast, 6'1", 240. I'd hate to pass on a player that could end up all pro.

Or Aaron Curry? Curry was a little more stout but he played in coverage a lot in college and was great in coverage too.

tiamat63

My issue with the Browns taking Simmons isn't one of talent - but of usage. I'll echo @tour2ma here for a moment but for my own reasons. Simmons is a player you're going to have to work your ass off to make him as effective as possible on an every down basis. He'll have to be moved around a great deal. Like... damn near every snap.

I have to keep in mind Aqib Talib's comments about coach Woods, one that shouldn't sit lightly with anyone. When Wade Phillips departed Denver, Woods cut the play book down a good deal. I truly believe a solid part of that was for his own benefit. Being a first time coach isn't easy and it can be overwhelming at times. You need to have a set of calls you can trust, are completely comfortable calling and are familiar in checking in/out of. With those calls come personnel groupings, alignments and assignments. Taking a true chess piece such as Simmons might only serve to complicate matters further for Woods who is still quite a young coach. Because instead of focusing on expanding his playbook as a unit, he is now putting in some real considerable time tailoring his defense, specifically his back 7, around finding the mold of what works best for a rookie.

I just don't see it as a union that would benefit our team as a whole. Sure, we may gain a talented player. But we may gain it at the expense of not having the environment to properly use the skill set to its maximum effectiveness. This is a reflection on where we are as a collective as a coaching staff. With a more veteran leader? Sure... sign me TF up. With Woods? Sometimes less is more.

TL;DR. No point in buying a mustang if you can only drive it during rush hour.

Tour2ma

That's a helluva, free-range echo...

Orion

So we drafted Simmons...and on opening day we're sending the defense onto the field....where does he play? How many safeties go onto the field with him? How many LB'ers?, How many DLinemen?

Does he play at the LOS on 1st down, LB'er on 2nd down and safety on 3rd?

tiamat63

@orion said:

So we drafted Simmons...and on opening day we're sending the defense onto the field....where does he play? How many safeties go onto the field with him? How many LB'ers?, How many DLinemen?

Does he play at the LOS on 1st down, LB'er on 2nd down and safety on 3rd?

Can't answer that without know who the opposing team is, what they put on tape the previous season, what we feel they might do now, personnel and schematic strengths, weaknesses... etc etc.

He could be the 7th or 8th man in certain fronts. He might play a dime linebacker? Split out against move TE's? Who knows?

gumby73

@gumby73 said:

Easy choice from ACC Country...ya take the defensive hybrid player of the year ?️Simmons.. the only defensive position he did not play was DT...

can i brag just this one time? Simmons "All i want'a do is Z00m..Z00m..Zoom..." to a 4.39 40... I'll stand on that one at 240 lbs.. ties for 5th overall in 40's. 'let me chase Lamar'...

calfoxwc

@gumby73 said:

can i brag just this one time? Simmons "All i want'a do is Z00m..Z00m..Zoom..." to a 4.39 40... I'll stand on that one at 240 lbs.. ties for 5th overall in 40's. 'let me chase Lamar'...

it didn't occur to me til yesterday.... that another linebacker I met in college - I and a few friends collected several extra tickets from other students who weren't going...- for a bunch of his and his roommate's family and friends for a big game. The guy who called was TE Gary Pinkel, and the linebacker's name was...

Jack Lambert. They both stopped in for the tickets and told us they really appreciated it...for a few seconds I met him again at the Robin Hood Inn a few weeks later - Jack was certainly tall, but at 6'4", he only weighed in about 223 lbs. Of course, that was long ago - but he slammed people with leverage and violence, and he was sideline to sideline. He looked lanky, but I wouldn't say skinny.

Interesting -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Lambert_(American_football)

"Lambert was the prototypical middle linebacker for what became the Tampa Two defense. Bud Carson, in his "Double-Rotating Zone" defense where safeties played back in a two-deep zone and the corner-backs played in two shallow zones or in bump-and-run coverage, instead of having the middle linebacker close to the line in run support, had the middle linebacker drop back into a middle zone to cover the seam between the safeties. Middle linebackers had not been tasked in such a way previously (Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke being the epitomes of the run-support middle linebacker), but Lambert's size, speed, and talents facilitated the new role.^[4]"

^{*************************************************************}

I haven't seen Simmons slamming people into the turf like that - but maybe his weight isn't going to keep him from being a great player. who knows?

Tour2ma

@gumby73 said:

Simmons "All i want'a do is Z00m..Z00m..Zoom..." to a 4.39 40... I'll stand on that one at 240 lbs.. ties for 5th overall in 40's. 'let me chase Lamar'...

I'll let the bench slide, but no 3-cone or shuttle? Think he cherry-picked his events much?

We know Lamar doesn't run in a straight line.

ConsciousFluffyBangeltiger-max-1mb.gif.374d3eef29271e8bd6059a81a382d705.gif

TexasAg1969

@tour2ma said:

I'll let the bench slide, but no 3-cone or shuttle? Think he cherry-picked his events much?

We know Lamar doesn't run in a straight line.

Need a pro day and see what he does in the other events. Or bring him in for a private workout.

Dutch Oven

@tour2ma said:

I'll let the bench slide, but no 3-cone or shuttle? Think he cherry-picked his events much?

We know Lamar doesn't run in a straight line.

Or can he dodge a wrench?