Left Tackle - Flugel Faves and Hopefuls
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Okudah could be the player in this draft. He’s one of best I’ve seen at OSU. I know we’ve invested some high picks at the position. Thinking down the road - are you giving the massive deal to Garrett or Ward? It may come to that. Okudah is a better player and two years further from a bigger contract. If the Lions are shopping it I’m not saying go up but if there are teams moving up to take a QB or Tackle or Simmons and Okudah drops a little more- I’m thinking about it.
Simmons or Brown? I group them with a few of these tackles as Good prospects. I’m not going up to get either and quite honestly I’d take Jones and Thomas over both.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
That is a huge question. Isaiah Simmons or a LT... Thomas vs Simmons...that is really tough. Maybe there isn't any other lb like Simmons later, but a LT that could develop into a terrific one, while being able to start and be ready by the regular season. I'd be fascinated to know what the Browns staff would have done, after the draft is over.
If Thomas is there... we could pick my lb in the third? round - Logan Wilson. But Wilson isn't Simmons.
Or, we take Simmons, and take.... Ben Bartch OLT , third round? Without individual workouts, it's a tough call.
I mention third round, because I'd have to go safety - I don't believe Dugger or Tiam's Chinn will last til the Browns pick in the third.
This draft is going to be amazing.
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Okudah could be the player in this draft. He’s one of best I’ve seen at OSU. I know we’ve invested some high picks at the position. Thinking down the road - are you giving the massive deal to Garrett or Ward? It may come to that. Okudah is a better player and two years further from a bigger contract. If the Lions are shopping it I’m not saying go up but if there are teams moving up to take a QB or Tackle or Simmons and Okudah drops a little more- I’m thinking about it.
Simmons or Brown? I group them with a few of these tackles as Good prospects. I’m not going up to get either and quite honestly I’d take Jones and Thomas over both.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
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As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
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If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.
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I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.
Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.
Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
Do you like Steak or Lobster?
but it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
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Ward went to a pro-bowl is rookie year. I like Okudah, but there needs to be a certain amount of disclaimer to your presumption.
Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
Do you like Steak or Lobster?
but it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
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Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
I hope my #1 overall QB is the guy or we have bigger problems so yes I’d have a scenario (cap in mind) that I’m paying him like a franchise QB.
If for some strange reason Okudah drops out of the Top 5. I’m making a call to #6. I’m not living out fear necessarily that Ward leaves or his hammy keeps him out almost half the year. But I know I need two guys ( I don’t think too highly of our CB position group) and maybe I view Okudah and a few others well above some of these RT trying to play LT. I was highly critical of the Browns defense the last half of 2019. We have Myles back we still have a ways to go IMO so I'm saying Defense is a need in general especially disrupting the passer or WRs.
If we stay at 10 - considering BPA and Need I’d be more than happy with Thomas or Jones. I think Jones in a trade back is ideal.
Im hearing a lot of the Browns may settle on the 3rd or 4th tackle at 10. “Just take a tackle and be done with it”. Honestly I don’t see 3 or 4 tackles worthy of a top 10 pick- and I'd guess that Browns may have 1st round grades on some and 2nd on others.So we all need to potentially brace ourselves if we don't take a tackle.
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It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
I hope my #1 overall QB is the guy or we have bigger problems so yes I’d have a scenario (cap in mind) that I’m paying him like a franchise QB.
If for some strange reason Okudah drops out of the Top 5. I’m making a call to #6. I’m not living out fear necessarily that Ward leaves or his hammy keeps him out almost half the year. But I know I need two guys ( I don’t think too highly of our CB position group) and maybe I view Okudah and a few others well above some of these RT trying to play LT. I was highly critical of the Browns defense the last half of 2019. We have Myles back we still have a ways to go IMO so I'm saying Defense is a need in general especially disrupting the passer or WRs.
If we stay at 10 - considering BPA and Need I’d be more than happy with Thomas or Jones. I think Jones in a trade back is ideal.
Im hearing a lot of the Browns may settle on the 3rd or 4th tackle at 10. “Just take a tackle and be done with it”. Honestly I don’t see 3 or 4 tackles worthy of a top 10 pick- and I'd guess that Browns may have 1st round grades on some and 2nd on others.So we all need to potentially brace ourselves if we don't take a tackle.
I hope my #1 overall QB is the guy or we have bigger problems so yes I’d have a scenario (cap in mind) that I’m paying him like a franchise QB.
If for some strange reason Okudah drops out of the Top 5. I’m making a call to #6. I’m not living out fear necessarily that Ward leaves or his hammy keeps him out almost half the year. But I know I need two guys ( I don’t think too highly of our CB position group) and maybe I view Okudah and a few others well above some of these RT trying to play LT. I was highly critical of the Browns defense the last half of 2019. We have Myles back we still have a ways to go IMO so I'm saying Defense is a need in general especially disrupting the passer or WRs.
If we stay at 10 - considering BPA and Need I’d be more than happy with Thomas or Jones. I think Jones in a trade back is ideal.
Im hearing a lot of the Browns may settle on the 3rd or 4th tackle at 10. “Just take a tackle and be done with it”. Honestly I don’t see 3 or 4 tackles worthy of a top 10 pick- and I'd guess that Browns may have 1st round grades on some and 2nd on others.So we all need to potentially brace ourselves if we don't take a tackle.
Sadly hope is not a plan. The idea already has to be in mind for this front office with a several year plan involving helping Baker now, and then determining if he is our long term solution. When the draft is over, roster settled and coaches adjusted and ready on the eve of the season, then can they are allowed to "hope". Because at that point, short of an in-season trade, there is little else they can do.
I may not agree with your reasoning, but it is sound. Essentially saying you elevate Okudah's drafting above positions of need based on elite play and not being overly fond of our current crop of DB's. That's fair.
Taking any position "just to be done with it" is how GM's wind up drafting a Blaine Gabbert and anchoring him to their career. So I would hope and trust that Barry isn't just drafting a tackle for the sake of addressing the need. That is a fools strategy and the complete opposite of what I would do. As of right now, I only value 2 true LT's in the 1st round. Andrew Thomas and my luke-warm current feeling on Josh Jones.
But if the Browns have a plan to address the position in the 2nd or 3rd round, I would be ok with that. However I won't be overly thrilled by Simmons, 10 the assets netted from a trade down had better blow my fucking mind and I'm hoping Matt Peart is in our plans.
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Nothing wrong with Ward I even suggest he’s probably headed for a massive deal. Can we pay him that deal?
And He appeared better in 2018 than 2019.
Okudah has been nothing but fabulous at OSU when he took over for Ward against USC in Cotton Bowl when Ward decided to sit it out.
it could come down to Okudah for 4 years or Ward 2 years
It might not come down to that at all if we move on from Baker.
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
What percentage of time do teams put 3 CBs on the field these days? Given how thin we are at Safety, doesn't at least one of our hypothetical CB trio add value there as well?
If you don't see "elite" when you see Okudah, then your position is perfectly understandable. Sd and I do... so our position, if not our player evaluation, should be easy to appreciate as well. Add that at least in my case I believe I know where to tab OT value in the next round... add to that Ward's injury history... add to that lingering questions about Greedy's performance level... and Okudah makes sense.
Pay? There are positions you pay in this league and those you do not. CB is one of the ones you do... at least on one side. Ones we are paying now that we won't down the road include our #2 WR.
As for Simmons.. Flugs made the most compelling case for him I've seen... and yet I am still unswayed. Reading between his lines I still see the argument I raised and you amplified weeks ago. Namely he's a versatile prospect who will have to be used that way to maximize his value. A defense will have to be designed around him to do and that's a huge investment better made by a franchise not lead by a young coaching staff.
EDIT: Well... lol... had I elected to view your new post as I typed the above... I could have saved a little time.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Bird in the hand.... Point being, drafting a CB that high shouldn't be to replace one you might just expect to lose down the road (at best) That isn't maximizing pick value. Why not address immediate positions of need meeting at the intersection of BPA and target promising development later in the draft?
What percentage of time do teams put 3 CBs on the field these days? Given how thin we are at Safety, doesn't at least one of our hypothetical CB trio add value there as well?
If you don't see "elite" when you see Okudah, then your position is perfectly understandable. Sd and I do... so our position, if not our player evaluation, should be easy to appreciate as well. Add that at least in my case I believe I know where to tab OT value in the next round... add to that Ward's injury history... add to that lingering questions about Greedy's performance level... and Okudah makes sense.
Pay? There are positions you pay in this league and those you do not. CB is one of the ones you do... at least on one side. Ones we are paying now that we won't down the road include our #2 WR.
As for Simmons.. Flugs made the most compelling case for him I've seen... and yet I am still unswayed. Reading between his lines I still see the argument I raised and you amplified weeks ago. Namely he's a versatile prospect who will have to be used that way to maximize his value. A defense will have to be designed around him to do and that's a huge investment better made by a franchise not lead by a young coaching staff.
EDIT: Well... lol... had I elected to view your new post as I typed the above... I could have saved a little time.
What percentage of time do teams put 3 CBs on the field these days? Given how thin we are at Safety, doesn't at least one of our hypothetical CB trio add value there as well?
If you don't see "elite" when you see Okudah, then your position is perfectly understandable. Sd and I do... so our position, if not our player evaluation, should be easy to appreciate as well. Add that at least in my case I believe I know where to tab OT value in the next round... add to that Ward's injury history... add to that lingering questions about Greedy's performance level... and Okudah makes sense.
Pay? There are positions you pay in this league and those you do not. CB is one of the ones you do... at least on one side. Ones we are paying now that we won't down the road include our #2 WR.
As for Simmons.. Flugs made the most compelling case for him I've seen... and yet I am still unswayed. Reading between his lines I still see the argument I raised and you amplified weeks ago. Namely he's a versatile prospect who will have to be used that way to maximize his value. A defense will have to be designed around him to do and that's a huge investment better made by a franchise not lead by a young coaching staff.
EDIT: Well... lol... had I elected to view your new post as I typed the above... I could have saved a little time.
- What percentage is nickel with 3 CB's? Not sure, but nickel is 60-65% of your snaps. Whether it's big nickel or not. So I would expect our thin safety depth to be addressed in the coming draft.
- Okudah. When I see him, I think of Nnamdi. And I did love me some Nnamdi. But I have to ask myself, at the end of the day, what will be more impactful for this team? Securing the ends on the Oline or adding another corner? Do we want to give Baker every chance to succeed? Then if the best LT in the draft drops to you, common sense would be to take him. I do believe Jeff will be a good player in the NFL. But my weighing the cost vs Andrew Thomas? I feel like AT wins that battle in my mind. Jury is out on Greedy and I'm willing to give him time based on the fact that our previous DC's pension for his defenses being bitch-made didn't help.
- I'm not sold on Simmons as a will backer over Kenneth Murray. Not on an every down basis going from working between the tackles, processing everything at game speed and then executing. It's a different monster than floating further back, playing off a hash or split out over a slot. And he is another player that has made his bones being the most physically gifted on the field. I don't see the next Derwin James and I'm hard pressed to find a comparison outside of Buccannon. Whom nobody would call a top 10 pick now. (Mark Barron, anyone?)
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If, for some reason it should come to pass that some other player besides a LT should be taken by the Browns because that guy seems just too good to pass up.(like maybe Simmons)......what do you all think about the guys that may still be available in Round 2 with our #41 pick.
Names like Isaiah Wilson Ga. Austin Jackson USC, Ezra Cleveland Boise St.? Would any of them suffice?
I’m not too crazy about Austin Jackson. I watched Utah, UW and Iowa games he doesn’t stand out to me at all. He stood out negatively in the Iowa Epenesa abused him.
As incredible as Okudah is - we have 2 first round picks at Corner (Ward at #4 overall and FA Kevin Johnson), 1 second round pick (Greedy Williams), and Terrence Mitchell.
What we don't have, aside from Left Tackle, right now? An OLB for a defense that needs to start 2 of them with only the draft left to address it. Everything Isaiah Simmons excels at - is exactly what NFL Teams are looking for from an OLB to match up in a passing era. Simmons is GREAT against the pass via blitz or in coverage. In 2019, he had 8 sacks, 5 QB hurries, 16 Tackles for loss, 7 pass breakups, 3 INTs and 102 tackles that earned him the Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker. Aside from his ideal 1st step instinct, he's got the long arms that extend his pass breakup radius and the quicks/speed to run with RBs/TEs in coverage. Like Okudah, he is also the best guy at his position (OLBer) that would have me very comfortable with Cleveland drafting him if the top 2 or 3 Left Tackles are off the board.
If I had to choose between Simmons and Thomas, I'd take Thomas. He plays a very important position we need to find an elite player to fill. That being the case, I made this thread about the position and listed him as my favorite choice as a fan. If both are gone as well as another top tackle or 2 - #10 overall has us in a good position to trade-back with 1 of the other teams that need a LT (Tampa - worrying about the Jets in front of them but no longer needing to worry about us) or a QB (Bill Belicheck usually has a comfortable draft volume where a QB could convince him to part with picks). It's gonna be interesting to see what unfolds...
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
I’m saying all this because the tackles, Simmons, Brown to me are good prospects probably not Top 10 guys just my opinion.
Burrow and Tua scream out at me. Scared to death by Tua’s injuries though and Young and Okudah AFTER these four you could be at 6 or #21 you getting a good player potentially probably not elite. Jeudy could emerge above That good player label- can’t deny his production
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
You explained it twice now; and it still doesn't make sense to draft Okudah when we're trying to find 2 new starters at OLB, a starter at LT and a possibly starter at Safety. And I already covered our depth at corner (2 former 1st round picks, 1 second round pick and Mitchell).
I'm not worrying about renewing contracts 1-2 years from now. As of today, Cleveland has the most cap space available of 32 NFL teams with $40,175,174. We'll have the cap room - we always do.
With the rookie salary cap, the bang for the buck isn't exclusive to Okudah. It can be just as pertinent to an elite LT or a stud OLBer or whoever our scouts/FO deems gotta have at #10.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
You explained it twice now; and it still doesn't make sense to draft Okudah when we're trying to find 2 new starters at OLB, a starter at LT and a possibly starter at Safety. And I already covered our depth at corner (2 former 1st round picks, 1 second round pick and Mitchell).
I'm not worrying about renewing contracts 1-2 years from now. As of today, Cleveland has the most cap space available of 32 NFL teams with $40,175,174. We'll have the cap room - we always do.
With the rookie salary cap, the bang for the buck isn't exclusive to Okudah. It can be just as pertinent to an elite LT or a stud OLBer or whoever our scouts/FO deems gotta have at #10.
You explained it twice now; and it still doesn't make sense to draft Okudah when we're trying to find 2 new starters at OLB, a starter at LT and a possibly starter at Safety. And I already covered our depth at corner (2 former 1st round picks, 1 second round pick and Mitchell).
I'm not worrying about renewing contracts 1-2 years from now. As of today, Cleveland has the most cap space available of 32 NFL teams with $40,175,174. We'll have the cap room - we always do.
With the rookie salary cap, the bang for the buck isn't exclusive to Okudah. It can be just as pertinent to an elite LT or a stud OLBer or whoever our scouts/FO deems gotta have at #10.
Yes you did you are taking about Kevin Johnson a former 1st rounder on a one year deal and Greedy who was selected by Dorsey.
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I explained my rationale behind Okudah IF he falls to a spot where we don’t have to mortgage our future to get him.
When Baker returns to 2018 form (fingers crossed) And gets paid his next contract and Myles gets paid how can we afford Denzel Ward? And Do we want pay him???
Okudah can be on a Rookie deal for the next at least the next three/four years. He’s better than Ward too.
You explained it twice now; and it still doesn't make sense to draft Okudah when we're trying to find 2 new starters at OLB, a starter at LT and a possibly starter at Safety. And I already covered our depth at corner (2 former 1st round picks, 1 second round pick and Mitchell).
I'm not worrying about renewing contracts 1-2 years from now. As of today, Cleveland has the most cap space available of 32 NFL teams with $40,175,174. We'll have the cap room - we always do.
With the rookie salary cap, the bang for the buck isn't exclusive to Okudah. It can be just as pertinent to an elite LT or a stud OLBer or whoever our scouts/FO deems gotta have at #10.
We'll have the cap room - we always do.
Pretty sure that's what the LAR GM told Kroenke...
For as long as we can remember we've had but one franchise player... Joe T. And he was a bargain most of his years.
We hope that in the not-too-distant future we will be having to pay...
- $30mm per year to a QB... up about $21mm/yr
- $24mm/yr to an Edge... up about $14mm/yr
- $16mm/yr to a CB... up about $8mm/yr
That plus the rookie class tab pretty much eats your cap cushion up PDQ...
Sure we've got a couple big checks we will stop writing and some dead money to clear, but then there are more positions to fill, some with expensive UFAs, and more rookie deals to extend.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What percentage of time do teams put 3 CBs on the field these days? Given how thin we are at Safety, doesn't at least one of our hypothetical CB trio add value there as well?
If you don't see "elite" when you see Okudah, then your position is perfectly understandable. Sd and I do... so our position, if not our player evaluation, should be easy to appreciate as well. Add that at least in my case I believe I know where to tab OT value in the next round... add to that Ward's injury history... add to that lingering questions about Greedy's performance level... and Okudah makes sense.
Pay? There are positions you pay in this league and those you do not. CB is one of the ones you do... at least on one side. Ones we are paying now that we won't down the road include our #2 WR.
As for Simmons.. Flugs made the most compelling case for him I've seen... and yet I am still unswayed. Reading between his lines I still see the argument I raised and you amplified weeks ago. Namely he's a versatile prospect who will have to be used that way to maximize his value. A defense will have to be designed around him to do and that's a huge investment better made by a franchise not lead by a young coaching staff.
EDIT: Well... lol... had I elected to view your new post as I typed the above... I could have saved a little time.
- What percentage is nickel with 3 CB's? Not sure, but nickel is 60-65% of your snaps. Whether it's big nickel or not. So I would expect our thin safety depth to be addressed in the coming draft.
- Okudah. When I see him, I think of Nnamdi. And I did love me some Nnamdi. But I have to ask myself, at the end of the day, what will be more impactful for this team? Securing the ends on the Oline or adding another corner? Do we want to give Baker every chance to succeed? Then if the best LT in the draft drops to you, common sense would be to take him. I do believe Jeff will be a good player in the NFL. But my weighing the cost vs Andrew Thomas? I feel like AT wins that battle in my mind. Jury is out on Greedy and I'm willing to give him time based on the fact that our previous DC's pension for his defenses being bitch-made didn't help.
- I'm not sold on Simmons as a will backer over Kenneth Murray. Not on an every down basis going from working between the tackles, processing everything at game speed and then executing. It's a different monster than floating further back, playing off a hash or split out over a slot. And he is another player that has made his bones being the most physically gifted on the field. I don't see the next Derwin James and I'm hard pressed to find a comparison outside of Buccannon. Whom nobody would call a top 10 pick now. (Mark Barron, anyone?)
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I'm not sold on Simmons as a will backer over Kenneth Murray. Not on an every down basis going from working between the tackles, processing everything at game speed and then executing. It's a different monster than floating further back, playing off a hash or split out over a slot. And he is another player that has made his bones being the most physically gifted on the field. I don't see the next Derwin James and I'm hard pressed to find a comparison outside of Buccannon. Whom nobody would call a top 10 pick now. (Mark Barron, anyone?)
I don't think they're going to play the same position in the NFL any more than they played the same position in college. And fwiw, Simmons only played Safety in 2017 before he transitioned to OLB in 2018 and 2019.
We've discussed Murray recently and nothing has changed. He's the top rated ILB in this draft. Love this kid. I think I also mentioned - I see him as a bigger version of Mike Johnson (who I adored as a MLB for us). Murray had a 155 tackles in 2018 and another 102 tackles in 2019 as well as 77 tackles in 14 games in 2017. Killer good against the run. So, what will prevent him from being drafted within the top 10 IMO? He only had 6 pass break ups in 3 years with no INTs, which seems a little disappointing considering that covering a hook zone shouldn't be difficult for a great athlete/instinctive LBer. In the NFL, you have to be instinctive vrs the pass too.
In contrast, Simmons is an OLB that broke-up 13 passes with 4 INTs in the last 2 years (he also forced 4 fumbles in this span). Within those numbers is a guy that can either cover the slot or a RB or mirror a TE. He can also blitz and give you 8 sacks. And in 2019, he had the same 102 tackles Murray had. His ability in pass D as it projects for today's NFL is why I see him getting drafted before Murray and somewhere up in the top 10. Murray will also get drafted in the first round - most likely by a team that will play him at ILB/MLB.
As you, Tour and SDB80 have mentioned - Simmons doesn't light everyone's fire in here. And that's okay. I enjoy the conversation it gives us.
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I'm not sold on Simmons as a will backer over Kenneth Murray. Not on an every down basis going from working between the tackles, processing everything at game speed and then executing. It's a different monster than floating further back, playing off a hash or split out over a slot. And he is another player that has made his bones being the most physically gifted on the field. I don't see the next Derwin James and I'm hard pressed to find a comparison outside of Buccannon. Whom nobody would call a top 10 pick now. (Mark Barron, anyone?)
I don't think they're going to play the same position in the NFL any more than they played the same position in college. And fwiw, Simmons only played Safety in 2017 before he transitioned to OLB in 2018 and 2019.
We've discussed Murray recently and nothing has changed. He's the top rated ILB in this draft. Love this kid. I think I also mentioned - I see him as a bigger version of Mike Johnson (who I adored as a MLB for us). Murray had a 155 tackles in 2018 and another 102 tackles in 2019 as well as 77 tackles in 14 games in 2017. Killer good against the run. So, what will prevent him from being drafted within the top 10 IMO? He only had 6 pass break ups in 3 years with no INTs, which seems a little disappointing considering that covering a hook zone shouldn't be difficult for a great athlete/instinctive LBer. In the NFL, you have to be instinctive vrs the pass too.
In contrast, Simmons is an OLB that broke-up 13 passes with 4 INTs in the last 2 years (he also forced 4 fumbles in this span). Within those numbers is a guy that can either cover the slot or a RB or mirror a TE. He can also blitz and give you 8 sacks. And in 2019, he had the same 102 tackles Murray had. His ability in pass D as it projects for today's NFL is why I see him getting drafted before Murray and somewhere up in the top 10. Murray will also get drafted in the first round - most likely by a team that will play him at ILB/MLB.
As you, Tour and SDB80 have mentioned - Simmons doesn't light everyone's fire in here. And that's okay. I enjoy the conversation it gives us.
I don't think they're going to play the same position in the NFL any more than they played the same position in college. And fwiw, Simmons only played Safety in 2017 before he transitioned to OLB in 2018 and 2019.
We've discussed Murray recently and nothing has changed. He's the top rated ILB in this draft. Love this kid. I think I also mentioned - I see him as a bigger version of Mike Johnson (who I adored as a MLB for us). Murray had a 155 tackles in 2018 and another 102 tackles in 2019 as well as 77 tackles in 14 games in 2017. Killer good against the run. So, what will prevent him from being drafted within the top 10 IMO? He only had 6 pass break ups in 3 years with no INTs, which seems a little disappointing considering that covering a hook zone shouldn't be difficult for a great athlete/instinctive LBer. In the NFL, you have to be instinctive vrs the pass too.
In contrast, Simmons is an OLB that broke-up 13 passes with 4 INTs in the last 2 years (he also forced 4 fumbles in this span). Within those numbers is a guy that can either cover the slot or a RB or mirror a TE. He can also blitz and give you 8 sacks. And in 2019, he had the same 102 tackles Murray had. His ability in pass D as it projects for today's NFL is why I see him getting drafted before Murray and somewhere up in the top 10. Murray will also get drafted in the first round - most likely by a team that will play him at ILB/MLB.
As you, Tour and SDB80 have mentioned - Simmons doesn't light everyone's fire in here. And that's okay. I enjoy the conversation it gives us.
Most Mock drafts that I have seen do not put Murray into the Top Ten picks.
Do you or anyone, think he may be worthy enough to take with our #10 (if the Browns decide for some reason that he is a better pick than any of the LTs left?)
Some, most mocks don't have Murray going until the mid 20s.....some have Patrick Queen going ahead of him. A couple that I looked at even had him in late 2d, early 3rd round.
Not sure what to make of all that.
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You explained it twice now; and it still doesn't make sense to draft Okudah when we're trying to find 2 new starters at OLB, a starter at LT and a possibly starter at Safety. And I already covered our depth at corner (2 former 1st round picks, 1 second round pick and Mitchell).
I'm not worrying about renewing contracts 1-2 years from now. As of today, Cleveland has the most cap space available of 32 NFL teams with $40,175,174. We'll have the cap room - we always do.
With the rookie salary cap, the bang for the buck isn't exclusive to Okudah. It can be just as pertinent to an elite LT or a stud OLBer or whoever our scouts/FO deems gotta have at #10.
Yes you did you are taking about Kevin Johnson a former 1st rounder on a one year deal and Greedy who was selected by Dorsey.
Yes you did you are taking about Kevin Johnson a former 1st rounder on a one year deal and Greedy who was selected by Dorsey.
Believe it or not, I already named Kevin Johnson in my reply to you on page 4.
I think the best tandem I've seen in recent years (as short as it was) was Terrence Mitchell and Denzel Ward in 2018. The trouble was, we couldn't keep them both healthy at the same time. I like our depth at this position in comparison to other areas on the defense.
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I don't think they're going to play the same position in the NFL any more than they played the same position in college. And fwiw, Simmons only played Safety in 2017 before he transitioned to OLB in 2018 and 2019.
We've discussed Murray recently and nothing has changed. He's the top rated ILB in this draft. Love this kid. I think I also mentioned - I see him as a bigger version of Mike Johnson (who I adored as a MLB for us). Murray had a 155 tackles in 2018 and another 102 tackles in 2019 as well as 77 tackles in 14 games in 2017. Killer good against the run. So, what will prevent him from being drafted within the top 10 IMO? He only had 6 pass break ups in 3 years with no INTs, which seems a little disappointing considering that covering a hook zone shouldn't be difficult for a great athlete/instinctive LBer. In the NFL, you have to be instinctive vrs the pass too.
In contrast, Simmons is an OLB that broke-up 13 passes with 4 INTs in the last 2 years (he also forced 4 fumbles in this span). Within those numbers is a guy that can either cover the slot or a RB or mirror a TE. He can also blitz and give you 8 sacks. And in 2019, he had the same 102 tackles Murray had. His ability in pass D as it projects for today's NFL is why I see him getting drafted before Murray and somewhere up in the top 10. Murray will also get drafted in the first round - most likely by a team that will play him at ILB/MLB.
As you, Tour and SDB80 have mentioned - Simmons doesn't light everyone's fire in here. And that's okay. I enjoy the conversation it gives us.
Most Mock drafts that I have seen do not put Murray into the Top Ten picks.
Do you or anyone, think he may be worthy enough to take with our #10 (if the Browns decide for some reason that he is a better pick than any of the LTs left?)
Some, most mocks don't have Murray going until the mid 20s.....some have Patrick Queen going ahead of him. A couple that I looked at even had him in late 2d, early 3rd round.
Not sure what to make of all that.
Most Mock drafts that I have seen do not put Murray into the Top Ten picks.
Do you or anyone, think he may be worthy enough to take with our #10 (if the Browns decide for some reason that he is a better pick than any of the LTs left?)
Some, most mocks don't have Murray going until the mid 20s.....some have Patrick Queen going ahead of him. A couple that I looked at even had him in late 2d, early 3rd round.
Not sure what to make of all that.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s). I've seen a couple mocks that have the Ratbirds taking him. That would suck!
He's a player I like quite a bit. He seems more like somebody we could draft if we traded back more so than at #10 overall. Anyone that reminds me of Mike Johnson gets 2 thumbs up.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Most Mock drafts that I have seen do not put Murray into the Top Ten picks.
Do you or anyone, think he may be worthy enough to take with our #10 (if the Browns decide for some reason that he is a better pick than any of the LTs left?)
Some, most mocks don't have Murray going until the mid 20s.....some have Patrick Queen going ahead of him. A couple that I looked at even had him in late 2d, early 3rd round.
Not sure what to make of all that.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s). I've seen a couple mocks that have the Ratbirds taking him. That would suck!
He's a player I like quite a bit. He seems more like somebody we could draft if we traded back more so than at #10 overall. Anyone that reminds me of Mike Johnson gets 2 thumbs up.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s). I've seen a couple mocks that have the Ratbirds taking him. That would suck!
He's a player I like quite a bit. He seems more like somebody we could draft if we traded back more so than at #10 overall. Anyone that reminds me of Mike Johnson gets 2 thumbs up.
What about trading up? Though I don't think I would want to have the Browns pull what they did for Brady Quinn by giving up their first rounder next year. But that is probably what it would have to take.
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Most Mock drafts that I have seen do not put Murray into the Top Ten picks.
Do you or anyone, think he may be worthy enough to take with our #10 (if the Browns decide for some reason that he is a better pick than any of the LTs left?)
Some, most mocks don't have Murray going until the mid 20s.....some have Patrick Queen going ahead of him. A couple that I looked at even had him in late 2d, early 3rd round.
Not sure what to make of all that.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s). I've seen a couple mocks that have the Ratbirds taking him. That would suck!
He's a player I like quite a bit. He seems more like somebody we could draft if we traded back more so than at #10 overall. Anyone that reminds me of Mike Johnson gets 2 thumbs up.
I think he'll go in round 1 in the area you see him going in the mocks (in the 20s).
Agree... I have traded back up into the bottom of the 1st in a few sims to take Murray, but have to dip into future years picks to do so...
Something that would not be necessary with the ability to deal players... ?
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And as if on cue...
The Sporting News just put out an article entitled...
The 7 safest NFL Draft picks in the 2020 class, from Chase Young to Jonathan Taylor
Tucked into the 5th spot was Mr. Murray.
Now I need to find their article on how such safe picks can be ranked so low on their "big board".
Something seems amiss...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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