Pavano Traded
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I don't mean to be a random poster, but I have a quick question about the game tonight.
Why did Masterson get replaced after 4 innings? I didn't get a chance to see the game, but from looking at his statline, he looked to be doing pretty good. Only had 1 ER and a 61 PC. Did he get some kind of injury?
I don't mean to be a random poster, but I have a quick question about the game tonight.
Why did Masterson get replaced after 4 innings? I didn't get a chance to see the game, but from looking at his statline, he looked to be doing pretty good. Only had 1 ER and a 61 PC. Did he get some kind of injury?
He's still converting from his bullpen role, he was on a pitch count of 60.
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I don't mean to be a random poster, but I have a quick question about the game tonight.
Why did Masterson get replaced after 4 innings? I didn't get a chance to see the game, but from looking at his statline, he looked to be doing pretty good. Only had 1 ER and a 61 PC. Did he get some kind of injury?
He's still converting from his bullpen role, he was on a pitch count of 60.
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But, many people UNDERSTAND the plan. Don't assume we don't know what it is because we don't like how the last DECADE of seeing this plan in action has turned out. We are upset that it's a perpetual wait-and-see-three-years-down-the-road plan.
Eh. I've tried to explain myself in about 10 different threads now so I guess I won't try anymore. But I'll sum it up. When Shapiro came on board, it was a complete rebuild. 2005-now was our window for contention. From 2005-2008 we added and re-signed a few players to $10M+/year contracts, locked up Sizemore and Fausto through 2012, added role players here and there, and lost a total of one significant player due to trade or free agency...CC (two if you consider Millwood significant). And we only lost him at the deadline before he was going to leave through FA. '
So now, trade deadline '09, we decided we weren't going to be a realistic contender...and entered rebuild #2. This hasn't been the plan for the past decade...it's the been the plan for the past couple weeks.
And, to me at least, anyone upset or shocked about losing Carl Pavano definitely doesn't understand the plan.
Eh. I've tried to explain myself in about 10 different threads now so I guess I won't try anymore. But I'll sum it up. When Shapiro came on board, it was a complete rebuild. 2005-now was our window for contention. From 2005-2008 we added and re-signed a few players to $10M+/year contracts, locked up Sizemore and Fausto through 2012, added role players here and there, and lost a total of one significant player due to trade or free agency...CC (two if you consider Millwood significant). And we only lost him at the deadline before he was going to leave through FA. '
So now, trade deadline '09, we decided we weren't going to be a realistic contender...and entered rebuild #2. This hasn't been the plan for the past decade...it's the been the plan for the past couple weeks.
And, to me at least, anyone upset or shocked about losing Carl Pavano definitely doesn't understand the plan.
Meh I might consider Coco Crisp a significant player for the tribe, as he did have good numbers for us when he was here. Milton Bradley had a few good years, but I understand why he was traded. Casey Blake was as good as anyone we have to fill his position currently. Everyone knew Millwood wasn't going to be around here long.
No matter how you slice it, with the exception of one ALCS appearance, Indians fans have been hearing continuously how good the team was going to be 2-3 years down the road. I distinctly remember reading an article in 2001 (when Shapiro became GM) the goal was to win a championship 2-3 years down the road, not 4-7 years. So, since 2001, we have been constantly hearing how good the tribe will be 2-3 years down the road, with just one playoff appearance. Nearly a decade.
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We get Yohan Pino. Obviously I've never heard of him, but here's a Twins blogger's thoughts...
Usually, "PTBNL" translates to "rubbish". In this case Cleveland actually managed to pry a player of use from a deal that basically translated to a salary dump.
http://www.twinkietown.com/2009/8/29/10066...rning-breakfastPino, an undrafted right-hander from Venezuela, was on his first stint at triple-A at age 25. He started six games for the Red Wings, the first time he was exclusively starting since his rookie-league season with Elizabethton in 2005. In spite of posting very solid numbers (1.11 WHIP, 8.0 K/9, 3.86 ERA), he managed just a 1-2 record. Of course that has less to do with his performance than other factors. His FIP was an impressive 3.39.
In spite of being a bit of a fly-ball pitcher, Pino's done a solid job of avoiding the gopher ball, and in general has been outstanding with the opposition posting a meager .235 BABIP.
Brad Weiss at Twin Cities Dugout did an excellent scouting report on Pino back in March. The highlights:
Mid to upper-80's fastball
Great breaking stuff, his strikeout pitch(es)
Breaking ball(s) and off-speed pitch make the fastball better
He's worked every role from starter to closer, and has succeeded with them all
In spite of not having that sexy fastball, he can be a strong contributor with a good arm, and he can ring up some strikeouts
http://twins.scout.com/2/845132.html
And Lastoria...
The Indians may have got more than originally thought for Pavano. While Pino is hardly an impact prospect, he is a quality pitcher who provides much needed depth to the Indians upper level pitching ranks. His fastball sits at 88-91 MPH with good sink, and he relies on his ability to change speed and command and control his three pitch mix of fastball-curveball-slider. His fastball has good movement, and he has a good feel for both of his secondary offerings with his curveball considered a plus pitch. His versatility to pitch in the bullpen or start and his exceptional command of all three of his offerings are two of his biggest strengths. His biggest asset may be his durable arm which has shown to be quite resilient and able to handle a heavy workload be it working back-to-back nights or throwing multiple innings several relief appearances in a row. He is not currently on the 40-man roster, but he is up for roster protection this offseason.
http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2009...o-catch-in.html -
Yohan Pino is now 2-0 in his two starts for Columbus, going 14 innings and giving up 12 hits, 2 walks, and striking out 14.
For the year he's at 9-3 with a 2.83 ERA, batters are hitting .232 off him and he's struck out 122 in 127 innings.
Something for nothing indeed.
Made even better when you consider what we're paying for, here's Cousineau from the DiaTribe...
As for the trade of Pavano (which I would have been more upset had they kept him), chew on these numbers that may not be exactly accurate, but are going to be close enough that it should erase any question as to whether Pavano should have been moved and in short order:
http://clevelandtribeblog.blogspot.com/200...h-new-plan.htmlPavano’s Base Salary
Indians – $1M in base salary
Twins – $500K in base salary
Both the Indians and Twins were at the 2/3 mark of their season at 108 games when the trade was made and Pavano’s base salary was $1.5M.
Before looking at his incentives , know that Pavano had 21 starts, 125 1/3 IP when the trade was made with 10 likely starts, if he’s on a 5-man schedule for the rest of the season.
Let’s put the conservative numbers of 9 more starts and 45 more IP (only 5 IP per start).
Pavano’s Incentives
Indians – $100K for his 18th start, $100K for his 20th start
Twins – $100K for his 22nd start, $200K for his 24th start, $200K for his 26th start, $200 K for his 28th start, $250K for his 30th start; $100K for 130th IP, $100K for 140th IP, $100K for 150th IP, $150K for 160th IP, $150K for 170th IP
He could hit more incentives, earning $300K for a 32nd start, $350K each for a 33rd and 34th start, and $400K for a 35th start with inning incentives coming in at $200k for his 180th IP, $250K each for his 190, 200, and 210th IP, $300K for his 215th IP, $400K for his 225th IP, and $500K for his 235th IP.
But if you’re talking about reasonably expected results, here are the projected totals:
Indians – $1.2M
Twins – $1.85M
If Pavano was going to hit those incentives, in what world does paying Pavano close to $2M for the rest of the season make sense?
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