Quinn's 51 yard pass - video clip
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Throwing deep 60 yards, and throwing accurate ropes on deep crosses and out patterns are two different animals, folks. Not saying he can't do it, but just because he unloaded a bomb doesn't mean a whole lot to me. Think of how many times he'll throw deep like that in a game, and then how many times he'll need 16-18 yards for first down or have to punt.
I could throw that pass he threw when I was 26 as well. Most people I played with could.
Agree 100% Throwing a longer pass accurately before the safety or cornerback can break on the ball is much different than lobbing a long pass. I will be happy if Brady can do this, just want to see it
Agree 100% Throwing a longer pass accurately before the safety or cornerback can break on the ball is much different than lobbing a long pass. I will be happy if Brady can do this, just want to see it
You guys crack me up. First, you spout over and over he doesn't go downfield and can't throw the deep ball. So, after he's shown he can in practice and in a game-like scrimmage, you now say, "Well, yeah, but can he throw a 15-20 yard out."
Jees, never heard any questions before about his mid range throws from you guys. In fact most everyone here has said that that is his strength/advantage over DA. You honestly think he or any QB would be a 1st round pick if they couldn't throw a 15-20 yard out?? Come on now.
But, now all of a sudden you gotta find something else to nitpick. Just give the kid a chance to prove it on the field. We already found out DA can't last season.
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There are tons of guys that can throw a football 50-60 even 65 yards in the air on a big wind up on a go route. And that's just out of the guys in the bar down the street.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
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There are tons of guys that can throw a football 50-60 even 65 yards in the air on a big wind up on a go route. And that's just out of the guys in the bar down the street.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
There are tons of guys that can throw a football 50-60 even 65 yards in the air on a big wind up on a go route. And that's just out of the guys in the bar down the street.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
So now it's the 30-35 yard pass into a tight window? Man, what next, the 40-42 yard corner over 3 defenders into the back of the end zone off of his back foot while being hit by a DE....in the rain?
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There are tons of guys that can throw a football 50-60 even 65 yards in the air on a big wind up on a go route. And that's just out of the guys in the bar down the street.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
There is next to no typical pass in the NFL playbook for a 30-35 bullet pass. You don't have time for guys to even get that far down field most cases. If you are running a 30-35 yard out, in, or post, you are just asking to get sacked.
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Agree 100% Throwing a longer pass accurately before the safety or cornerback can break on the ball is much different than lobbing a long pass. I will be happy if Brady can do this, just want to see it
You guys crack me up. First, you spout over and over he doesn't go downfield and can't throw the deep ball. So, after he's shown he can in practice and in a game-like scrimmage, you now say, "Well, yeah, but can he throw a 15-20 yard out."
Jees, never heard any questions before about his mid range throws from you guys. In fact most everyone here has said that that is his strength/advantage over DA. You honestly think he or any QB would be a 1st round pick if they couldn't throw a 15-20 yard out?? Come on now.
But, now all of a sudden you gotta find something else to nitpick. Just give the kid a chance to prove it on the field. We already found out DA can't last season.
But, now all of a sudden you gotta find something else to nitpick. Just give the kid a chance to prove it on the field. We already found out DA can't last season.
I never questioned his ability to throw long. I've watched him play more than many being a ND fan. All I was saying is just because he can throw long - something I knew he could do - doesn't mean he can throw the rope on an out or crossing pattern.
Not nitpicking, it is just my experience with Quinn watching practically every game for the Irish, he was not required to throw many crossing routes or deep outs. Doesn't mean he can't do it.
It is perfectly okay to ask about his strengths and weaknesess, man. I am not going to stop questioning his abilities until I see for myself.
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The difference is seeing a window 30-35 yards down field and putting an accurate bullet in that window, and doing it without a big wind-up.
There is next to no typical pass in the NFL playbook for a 30-35 bullet pass. You don't have time for guys to even get that far down field most cases. If you are running a 30-35 yard out, in, or post, you are just asking to get sacked.
Masters said:
There is next to no typical pass in the NFL playbook for a 30-35 bullet pass. You don't have time for guys to even get that far down field most cases. If you are running a 30-35 yard out, in, or post, you are just asking to get sacked.Maybe 30-35 was a stretch and I wasn't thinking correctly, but 20-25 isn't. And that's way more important than a 60 yard lobbed bombs.
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Masters said:
There is next to no typical pass in the NFL playbook for a 30-35 bullet pass. You don't have time for guys to even get that far down field most cases. If you are running a 30-35 yard out, in, or post, you are just asking to get sacked.Maybe 30-35 was a stretch and I wasn't thinking correctly, but 20-25 isn't. And that's way more important than a 60 yard lobbed bombs.
Maybe 30-35 was a stretch and I wasn't thinking correctly, but 20-25 isn't. And that's way more important than a 60 yard lobbed bomb.
I'd say anything past 20 yards and you're pushing it, but that's me. I'd certainly agree the ability to throw the 15~20 yard out, in, post, etc. is far more important.
I have just never seen any question on Quinn's arm stregth to throw that with zip or accuracy. Heck, I have seen him throw it in the DEN game last year, as well as the last two years of preseason work.
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"I am not going to stop questioning his abilities until I see for myself."
And that's why I want to see him too. We need to see him have a 8-10 game stretch of reg. season games to see what our future is. We know it ain't DA. Give the kid his shot, if he and DA (who's had over 25+ games of NFL experience), are "even", why not go with the guy you have questions about and has been "prepared" for an NFL offense? DA had his shot, ended up 4-12. We can't really do any worse.
Our offense was floundering last year and Quinn comes in and puts up 30 2 games in a row. Let's see what he's made of.
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Maybe 30-35 was a stretch and I wasn't thinking correctly, but 20-25 isn't. And that's way more important than a 60 yard lobbed bomb.
I'd say anything past 20 yards and you're pushing it, but that's me. I'd certainly agree the ability to throw the 15~20 yard out, in, post, etc. is far more important.
I have just never seen any question on Quinn's arm stregth to throw that with zip or accuracy. Heck, I have seen him throw it in the DEN game last year, as well as the last two years of preseason work.
Masters said:
I'd say anything past 20 yards and you're pushing it, but that's me. I'd certainly agree the ability to throw the 15~20 yard out, in, post, etc. is far more important.I have just never seen any question on Quinn's arm stregth to throw that with zip or accuracy. Heck, I have seen him throw it in the DEN game last year, as well as the last two years of preseason work.
I always thought the classic debate was that DA had the 15-25 yard throws locked down, that he was a great intermediate passer, and that his flaw was the short game... meaning screens and dumpoffs for 5-10 yards. And that Quinn had the short game down pat and there were questions about his zip and accuracy downfield (15-25 yards).
I don't think the worry was that Quinn couldn't throw the ball 65 yards in the air. Almost every NFL QB can do that.
The worry is about the intermediate game with zip and accuracy. No one was ever concerned that Quinn couldn't throw a bomb.
I'm not saying I don't think Quinn can be a great intermediate passer... I'm just saying I think that's what the debate is and always has been.
So... trying to say a few 60 yard passes hear and there totally clears the air on Quinn's passing ability isn't right because it isn't even relevant to what the real debate has always been about Quinn as a passer. The intermediate game with zip and accuracy. I know you didn't originally say that, but SoCal WAS trying to say those bombs cleared the air on his passing ability and that now we're trying to "change the argument" to the intermediate passing debate. That's what the questions about Quinn have always been.
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@shepwrite said:
Just to clear a few things up...No, the ability to throw a football 60 yards in the air is not common. That's bullshit. I watched a 1990s quarterback competition, with no pads and unlimited run-ups and windups, and McNair won it throwing 72. Kerry Collins (big arm) went 62. Jim Harbaugh was 56 and said that was really good for him.
I watched a college QB competition with Drew Stanton, Vince Young, and others... and Stanton won with 62 yards.
Vince Young can't throw a football. Probably no one else of note was in the competition.
NFL QB's can throw the football 60 yards in the air. Besides, I don't think Quinn has done it yet you just up the distance every time you say something about it.
Maybe a Pennington here and a Frye there can't. But other than that, they can.
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@shepwrite said:
Throwing with pads from a plant and throw? No. Not every NFL starter can go 60. And about 1% of the adult male population, I'm guessing.The question is about consistent accuracy.
Bro, do you know how long 60 yards is? I wasn't a QB and I could throw it close to 50 @ 26 yrs old. 60 is not a "1% of the population" throw.
When I watch fast action NFL football, throwing an out or crossing pattern at 16-20 yards needs to be a rope. Sure on a pro-day or combine he makes the throw. I am just wondering if he can make those in a game, with pressure, on time and without getting picked. Because a guy who - so far - has been reported to check down a lot, I question if he has the confidence or authority to make those 16-20 yarders on time, target and with velocity. That is my definition of an NFL arm, not rainbows that happen maybe once or twice a game.
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Quinn doesn't have arm strength problems. Period. This is nuts. It may or may not be top shelf, but it's plenty. His success will depend on accuracy and his drive to be better (like the Peter King info on his study of Tom Brady's footwork).
If Quinn fails, it will not be because he couldn't get it there.
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Quinn doesn't have arm strength problems. Period. This is nuts. It may or may not be top shelf, but it's plenty. His success will depend on accuracy and his drive to be better (like the Peter King info on his study of Tom Brady's footwork).
If Quinn fails, it will not be because he couldn't get it there.
If Quinn fails, it will not be because he couldn't get it there.
And that is what I want to see. Get it there, on time, with velocity and accuracy, on 3rd and 16, with a pass rush. Never said he couldn't, I just question whether he can because like all of us, we don't know what we have. I question nothing else about this kid but that.
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@shepwrite said:
I'm betting 1 in every 100 adult males can throw a football 60 yards in the air. But about 15 times that believe they can.Hell, most adult males can't throw 50.
Totally agree.
But... about 1 in every 10,000,000 adult males play QB in the NFL. So I'm guessing they're mostly part of that elite 1/100 ratio you spoke of.
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@shepwrite said:
Adkins keeps dropping hints that he knows something:The OBR gang spends about 24 hours a day dropping hints that they know something. but they really don't know anything.
It's like asking Tony Grossi in "Ask Tony" who he thinks is gonna start. Of course he says "I think it's time to see what they have in Quinn". Like that means jack shit.
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Masters said:
But there have never been any questions if Quinn could throw the 15~20 yard out.Yeah it's unquestioned that Quinnie ain't gonna be throwing any 20 yd outs.
Not a lot of guys can hit that pass, and the Quinnster certainly isn't one of them.
Regardless of shep flexing his muscles after Quinn reared back and finally put some air under one Charlie Frye style.
No matter if it was 50 or 55 or 58 or 60 or 65 yards.
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Masters said:
But there have never been any questions if Quinn could throw the 15~20 yard out.Yeah it's unquestioned that Quinnie ain't gonna be throwing any 20 yd outs.
Not a lot of guys can hit that pass, and the Quinnster certainly isn't one of them.
Regardless of shep flexing his muscles after Quinn reared back and finally put some air under one Charlie Frye style.
No matter if it was 50 or 55 or 58 or 60 or 65 yards.
Yeah it's unquestioned that Quinnie ain't gonna be throwing any 20 yd outs.
Not a lot of guys can hit that pass, and the Quinnster certainly isn't one of them.
Regardless of shep flexing his muscles after Quinn reared back and finally put some air under one 50 er, 55 er, 58 er, 60 er, 65 yards, Charlie Frye style.
Well his body of work in college, work outs, preseason, and live game action he has had would dispute your notion he has the arm to throw a 20 yard out. The real question to this day is can he throw with consistant accuracy at the pro level, and read a D at the pro level. Two things DA has shown he can do neither at in the pro level or the college level.
Oh, and in order to make it at the pro level or considered for it, you have to have the arm for that pass.
If you're going to knock Quinn and say he isn't one of them that can hit that pass, you might as well say the same thing of DA. Because he can't hit it either (unless you consider half the time as "hitting it").
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Yeah it's unquestioned that Quinnie ain't gonna be throwing any 20 yd outs.
Not a lot of guys can hit that pass, and the Quinnster certainly isn't one of them.
Regardless of shep flexing his muscles after Quinn reared back and finally put some air under one 50 er, 55 er, 58 er, 60 er, 65 yards, Charlie Frye style.
Well his body of work in college, work outs, preseason, and live game action he has had would dispute your notion he has the arm to throw a 20 yard out. The real question to this day is can he throw with consistant accuracy at the pro level, and read a D at the pro level. Two things DA has shown he can do neither at in the pro level or the college level.
Oh, and in order to make it at the pro level or considered for it, you have to have the arm for that pass.
If you're going to knock Quinn and say he isn't one of them that can hit that pass, you might as well say the same thing of DA. Because he can't hit it either (unless you consider half the time as "hitting it").
Masters said:
If you're going to knock Quinn and say he isn't one of them that can hit that pass, you might as well say the same thing of DA.Actually not. DA doesn't have trouble with that pass.
And FYI, being able to physically propel a ball over by the sideline 20 yds down field is not the same thing as hitting a 20 yd out before the DB picks it off for 6 the other way.
I'm sensing you may not ready to sit at the big boy table when it comes to this kind of stuff.
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Masters said:
If you're going to knock Quinn and say he isn't one of them that can hit that pass, you might as well say the same thing of DA.Actually not. DA doesn't have trouble with that pass.
And FYI, being able to physically propel a ball over by the sideline 20 yds down field is not the same thing as hitting a 20 yd out before the DB picks it off for 6 the other way.
I'm sensing you may not ready to sit at the big boy table when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Actually not. DA doesn't have trouble with that pass.
And FYI, being able to physically propel a ball over by the sideline 20 yds down field is not the same thing as hitting a 20 yd out before the DB picks it off for 6 the other way.
I'm sensing you may not ready to sit at the big boy table when it comes to this kind of stuff.
The whole completing it part he does have trouble with (unless his WR goes all circus).
Oh, I am well aware. Just as I have seen the pick 6 the other way, of course it is DA throwing the ball.
LFMAO....Says the guy who is still in the high chair.
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Stop saying since High School. DA and Kellen Clemens were 2 of the top 3 QBs rated in the nation coming out of High School. Say since college if you want to say something like that. Da did throw allot of pick sixes in college.
Does it bother anybody else that neither QB seems to be any better than the other? BQ did not play very good in last years preseason games and played one good game last year against one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. DA has played about 12 to 14 good games out of 27. When you look at them at the same time in their careers they are almost identical statistically and that includes in yards per pass completion.
That is the stat that people can use against lum to say that he can make the throws. 11.9 yards per completion for BQ and 12 yards per completion for DA.
But since most of you think that DA sucks, does it not bother you that people are talking about what happens if the competition is a tie? People talk about that they want BQ to earn the starter position but it seems that the only QB that would have to earn the job is DA. And most of you seem happy with that. If you think that DA sucks and that BQ can not seem to actually earn the position over him what you should be calling for is a new QB. If it is true that BQ starts if it is a even competition then you should be really upset that the Browns yet again turned down a first round pick for a QB on the roster. Because the truth is that the Browns franchise QB is not in camp this year, unless it is ratliff.
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