Browns Defense
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There is very little excuse to be in this situation for Berry. The linebacker core was rated last in the league going into the season, and that was BEFORE injury.
Your back up plan at safety is Sandejo?
The Browns have massive cap space and 9 picks coming this draft. 9 rookies aren't making this team.
IMO we assumed a two year rebuild. Go back and watch our defense at the end of last year. We blamed the Coordinator and rightfully so but we were void of talent as well. Others said well Garrett was out- our backers and secondary were putrid last year too I didn’t need Garrett on or off the field to see that. Tackling was awful too.
This offseason we drafted our LT and signed RT in hopes giving the QB everything he needed so we could assess his ability to play the position long term. Not a terrible strategy. But there folks all in this forum saying to draft a tackle, sign a tackle, draft a guard high and for good measure just draft depth there too when The issues on offense last year were largely Baker and the play caller.
IMO we assumed a two year rebuild. Go back and watch our defense at the end of last year. We blamed the Coordinator and rightfully so but we were void of talent as well. Others said well Garrett was out- our backers and secondary were putrid last year too I didn’t need Garrett on or off the field to see that. Tackling was awful too.
This offseason we drafted our LT and signed RT in hopes giving the QB everything he needed so we could assess his ability to play the position long term. Not a terrible strategy. But there folks all in this forum saying to draft a tackle, sign a tackle, draft a guard high and for good measure just draft depth there too when The issues on offense last year were largely Baker and the play caller.
Ya, but there is no excuse to be in the top 5 year after year in cap space, when your defensive players aren't even middle of the road. If your in a rebuild that is fine, sign 3 or 4 vets to 2-3 year contracts and put up a damn fight.... This defense is going to cost them a shot at making the playoffs. Always thinking about next year, when next year is completely uncertain.
On a side note, anybody see Ogbah absolutely destroy Goff on that fumble scoop and score play. Guy has 6 sacks this season too. Man, that trade was awful.
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Some guy on here would say "you can't fix everything in one year"......OK, but you can fuck up half the team in one year, it seems.
There's a narrative on here from some that the Browns focused almost exclusively on offense this year, and will focus on defense next offseason.
That's not entirely true. The Browns used their first rounder on LT Wills, but then used their 2nd rounder and both 3rd rounders on three defensive players.
Unfortunately, all three have missed a lot of time with injuries and have contributed little.
There's a narrative on here from some that the Browns focused almost exclusively on offense this year, and will focus on defense next offseason.
That's not entirely true. The Browns used their first rounder on LT Wills, but then used their 2nd rounder and both 3rd rounders on three defensive players.
Unfortunately, all three have missed a lot of time with injuries and have contributed little.
So, hopefully in their sophomore year they stay healthy and really start contributing.
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Some guy on here would say "you can't fix everything in one year"......OK, but you can fuck up half the team in one year, it seems.
There's a narrative on here from some that the Browns focused almost exclusively on offense this year, and will focus on defense next offseason.
That's not entirely true. The Browns used their first rounder on LT Wills, but then used their 2nd rounder and both 3rd rounders on three defensive players.
Unfortunately, all three have missed a lot of time with injuries and have contributed little.
Someone ask Yipper to explain how our 2019, 22nd-ranked D was "fucked up" this year on its way to being 19th-ranked.
There's a narrative on here from some that the Browns focused
almost exclusivelyon offense this year, and will focus on defense next offseason.Dear Dutch...
FIFY... follow the money. It was focused on the O-side... draft, yes, but also FA signings (Conklin)and contract extensions, e.g., Bito...
Yours truly,
A Narrator
Let's just hope Myles Garrett's MRI on the knee today doesn't give us bad news. If so, we're back to watching the same defense we had in his absence last year - and that wasn't very much fun,,,
IMO we assumed a two year rebuild. Go back and watch our defense at the end of last year. We blamed the Coordinator and rightfully so but we were void of talent as well. Others said well Garrett was out- our backers and secondary were putrid last year too I didn’t need Garrett on or off the field to see that. Tackling was awful too.
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Some guy on here would say "you can't fix everything in one year"......OK, but you can fuck up half the team in one year, it seems.
There's a narrative on here from some that the Browns focused almost exclusively on offense this year, and will focus on defense next offseason.
That's not entirely true. The Browns used their first rounder on LT Wills, but then used their 2nd rounder and both 3rd rounders on three defensive players.
Unfortunately, all three have missed a lot of time with injuries and have contributed little.
There's a narrative on here from some that the Browns focused almost exclusively on offense this year, and will focus on defense next offseason.
That's not entirely true. The Browns used their first rounder on LT Wills, but then used their 2nd rounder and both 3rd rounders on three defensive players.
Unfortunately, all three have missed a lot of time with injuries and have contributed little.
Yes and No.
Billings and Delpit IMO were the big loses. Greedy hasn’t shown a dang thing but that he’s too weak to handle the Pro game.
We tried to replace Vernon - didn’t happen but they made sure they spent enough to sign Conklin?
We did nothing for our backers aside from losing our best guy but adding a raw late third round prospects and adding an unsigned free agent at the beginning of the year.
Senedjo and Joseph scream of band aid relief.
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Someone ask Yipper to explain how our 2019, 22nd-ranked D was "fucked up" this year on its way to being 19th-ranked.
There's a narrative on here from some that the Browns focused
almost exclusivelyon offense this year, and will focus on defense next offseason.Dear Dutch...
FIFY... follow the money. It was focused on the O-side... draft, yes, but also FA signings (Conklin)and contract extensions, e.g., Bito...
Yours truly,
A Narrator
Let's just hope Myles Garrett's MRI on the knee today doesn't give us bad news. If so, we're back to watching the same defense we had in his absence last year - and that wasn't very much fun,,,
IMO we assumed a two year rebuild. Go back and watch our defense at the end of last year. We blamed the Coordinator and rightfully so but we were void of talent as well. Others said well Garrett was out- our backers and secondary were putrid last year too I didn’t need Garrett on or off the field to see that. Tackling was awful too.
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
Someone ask Yipper to explain how our 2019, 22nd-ranked D was "fucked up" this year on its way to being 19th-ranked.
Dear Dutch...
FIFY... follow the money. It was focused on the O-side... draft, yes, but also FA signings (Conklin)and contract extensions, e.g., Bito...
Yours truly,
A Narrator
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now but it dates back to last year. I am sorry I didn’t state the obvious.
The game Sunday reminded of the Bengal, 2nd Steeler game, Cardinal game in 2019. Guys out of place, bad tackling, lack of hustle from some players
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Someone ask Yipper to explain how our 2019, 22nd-ranked D was "fucked up" this year on its way to being 19th-ranked.
There's a narrative on here from some that the Browns focused
almost exclusivelyon offense this year, and will focus on defense next offseason.Dear Dutch...
FIFY... follow the money. It was focused on the O-side... draft, yes, but also FA signings (Conklin)and contract extensions, e.g., Bito...
Yours truly,
A Narrator
Let's just hope Myles Garrett's MRI on the knee today doesn't give us bad news. If so, we're back to watching the same defense we had in his absence last year - and that wasn't very much fun,,,
IMO we assumed a two year rebuild. Go back and watch our defense at the end of last year. We blamed the Coordinator and rightfully so but we were void of talent as well. Others said well Garrett was out- our backers and secondary were putrid last year too I didn’t need Garrett on or off the field to see that. Tackling was awful too.
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
Someone ask Yipper to explain how our 2019, 22nd-ranked D was "fucked up" this year on its way to being 19th-ranked.
Explain it to me yourself Coward of Crawford County.
Maybe last year's defense was just as bad, dickless, Does that mean we should still be doing fuck all to help it out? As apparently you advocate? You sound like that Republican Senator who advocated "if you are getting raped, just sit back and enjoy it."
Dear Dutch...
FIFY... follow the money. It was focused on the O-side... draft, yes, but also FA signings (Conklin)and contract extensions, e.g., Bito...
Sure, let's follow the money: Here is where following it leads us: The Cleveland Browns currently have the most salary cap space in the NFL with $38.6 million.
Right into Berry's/Jimmy's pockets. Just because they spent on offense still, to my mind was no reason to go cheap on defense.
Yours truly,
A Narrator
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
Its fuckedupness was exasperated this year. That seems clear.
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Someone ask Yipper to explain how our 2019, 22nd-ranked D was "fucked up" this year on its way to being 19th-ranked.
Dear Dutch...
FIFY... follow the money. It was focused on the O-side... draft, yes, but also FA signings (Conklin)and contract extensions, e.g., Bito...
Yours truly,
A Narrator
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now but it dates back to last year. I am sorry I didn’t state the obvious.
The game Sunday reminded of the Bengal, 2nd Steeler game, Cardinal game in 2019. Guys out of place, bad tackling, lack of hustle from some players
The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now but it dates back to last year. I am sorry I didn’t state the obvious.
The game Sunday reminded of the Bengal, 2nd Steeler game, Cardinal game in 2019. Guys out of place, bad tackling, lack of hustle from some players
Can't it be said that "doing nothing" is a part of fucking a thing up?
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Let's just hope Myles Garrett's MRI on the knee today doesn't give us bad news. If so, we're back to watching the same defense we had in his absence last year - and that wasn't very much fun,,,
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The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now but it dates back to last year. I am sorry I didn’t state the obvious.
The game Sunday reminded of the Bengal, 2nd Steeler game, Cardinal game in 2019. Guys out of place, bad tackling, lack of hustle from some players
Can't it be said that "doing nothing" is a part of fucking a thing up?
Can't it be said that "doing nothing" is a part of fucking a thing up?
It was a weak attempt at something
So Not doing enough is my take on it. -
Some places think both Haason Reddick [Cards] and Jarrad Davis [Lions] could be acquired
Both would be a lot more athletic [Both are 2017 first round LB's] and therefore hopefully able to execute passD than anyone we could get at the equivalent spot in 2021. I wouldn't go any higher but 4th seems doable for both. Neither are starters and so expectations would have to be low.
Also Justin Reid [S, Texans] because the texans need picks, and Tyquan Lewis [DT, Colts] because he's a starter buried behind Buckner.
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And going back to 1994, about 26 years, at 5-2 it was the best start since Bill B. was running things here.
What a difference a week makes.
Unfortunately the defense was still atrocious a week ago, we just happened to have an outstanding drive at the end of the game. Think about forcing 1 punt in 2 games...and last week, you basically got bailed out by two plays (int and fumble) or else it would have been curtains. Remember that Dallas game? We lose that game unless OBJ rips off that reverse TD. Something is very wrong with them, and I guess we just need to hope we can outscore everyone because we ain't stopping nobody.
This is still the best season I can remember in recent history, so I don't want to lose sight of that. But...but...damn man. It's so hard to watch. Can't tackle and can't ever make a play on 3rd or 4th down. Ever.
Unfortunately the defense was still atrocious a week ago, we just happened to have an outstanding drive at the end of the game. Think about forcing 1 punt in 2 games...and last week, you basically got bailed out by two plays (int and fumble) or else it would have been curtains. Remember that Dallas game? We lose that game unless OBJ rips off that reverse TD. Something is very wrong with them, and I guess we just need to hope we can outscore everyone because we ain't stopping nobody.
This is still the best season I can remember in recent history, so I don't want to lose sight of that. But...but...damn man. It's so hard to watch. Can't tackle and can't ever make a play on 3rd or 4th down. Ever.
if obj would have ran that same play against the steelers, he would have got his head ripped off....dallas on defense makes us look like the 85 bears...thats how bad they are...
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Unfortunately the defense was still atrocious a week ago, we just happened to have an outstanding drive at the end of the game. Think about forcing 1 punt in 2 games...and last week, you basically got bailed out by two plays (int and fumble) or else it would have been curtains. Remember that Dallas game? We lose that game unless OBJ rips off that reverse TD. Something is very wrong with them, and I guess we just need to hope we can outscore everyone because we ain't stopping nobody.
This is still the best season I can remember in recent history, so I don't want to lose sight of that. But...but...damn man. It's so hard to watch. Can't tackle and can't ever make a play on 3rd or 4th down. Ever.
if obj would have ran that same play against the steelers, he would have got his head ripped off....dallas on defense makes us look like the 85 bears...thats how bad they are...
if obj would have ran that same play against the steelers, he would have got his head ripped off....dallas on defense makes us look like the 85 bears...thats how bad they are...
Yeah, that's true. But it still doesn't change the fact we lost our explosive play maker. Just really hurts and makes me so sad for OBJ. I blew my knee out two years ago and I am not the same. I know the pain that waits for him, and I know the frustration that comes with it.
Back to the defense...
They’ve now given up more first downs (195) than any defense in the league. They’re also 26th in 3rd down D and 31st on fourth down.
Jesus....
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Some guy on here would say "you can't fix everything in one year"......OK, but you can fuck up half the team in one year, it seems.
Some guy on here would say "you can't fix everything in one year"......OK, but you can fuck up half the team in one year, it seems.
i think we are at the point now that we can say we can't fix everything in 20 yrs now....hahahahahaaaaaa....its a fucking true fact with this fucked up organization
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IMO we assumed a two year rebuild. Go back and watch our defense at the end of last year. We blamed the Coordinator and rightfully so but we were void of talent as well. Others said well Garrett was out- our backers and secondary were putrid last year too I didn’t need Garrett on or off the field to see that. Tackling was awful too.
This offseason we drafted our LT and signed RT in hopes giving the QB everything he needed so we could assess his ability to play the position long term. Not a terrible strategy. But there folks all in this forum saying to draft a tackle, sign a tackle, draft a guard high and for good measure just draft depth there too when The issues on offense last year were largely Baker and the play caller.
Ya, but there is no excuse to be in the top 5 year after year in cap space, when your defensive players aren't even middle of the road. If your in a rebuild that is fine, sign 3 or 4 vets to 2-3 year contracts and put up a damn fight.... This defense is going to cost them a shot at making the playoffs. Always thinking about next year, when next year is completely uncertain.
On a side note, anybody see Ogbah absolutely destroy Goff on that fumble scoop and score play. Guy has 6 sacks this season too. Man, that trade was awful.
there is no excuse to be in the top 5 year after year in cap space
This is NOT the case.
The cap this year is 198.2
Our liabilities this year are 198.0.
The so-called "cap space" is all due to "Rollover" from the Sashi years. Its value is zero the year after it's spent. Further explanation in the link below.
The smart way to think of this is that we can resign our actual good young players to cap-friendly long-term deals.. and NOT to touch it otherwise. Of course, that means we'll spend it on another washed-up moron because "Nobody could have guessed that a 41-year old safety lost a step"
Our actual 2020 cap space is 0.2 million. That's a large salary for you or me.. but in the NFL that's barely a practice squad player.
Also note that the cap will decrease anywhere from 30-80M from 2020 to 2021.. so we could use this as an opportunity to be buyers next offseason.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Someone ask Yipper to explain how our 2019, 22nd-ranked D was "fucked up" this year on its way to being 19th-ranked.
Dear Dutch...
FIFY... follow the money. It was focused on the O-side... draft, yes, but also FA signings (Conklin)and contract extensions, e.g., Bito...
Yours truly,
A Narrator
So.... D was not fucked up this year?
The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now but it dates back to last year. I am sorry I didn’t state the obvious.
The game Sunday reminded of the Bengal, 2nd Steeler game, Cardinal game in 2019. Guys out of place, bad tackling, lack of hustle from some players
The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now
You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
there is no excuse to be in the top 5 year after year in cap space
This is NOT the case.
The cap this year is 198.2
Our liabilities this year are 198.0.
The so-called "cap space" is all due to "Rollover" from the Sashi years. Its value is zero the year after it's spent. Further explanation in the link below.
The smart way to think of this is that we can resign our actual good young players to cap-friendly long-term deals.. and NOT to touch it otherwise. Of course, that means we'll spend it on another washed-up moron because "Nobody could have guessed that a 41-year old safety lost a step"
Our actual 2020 cap space is 0.2 million. That's a large salary for you or me.. but in the NFL that's barely a practice squad player.
Also note that the cap will decrease anywhere from 30-80M from 2020 to 2021.. so we could use this as an opportunity to be buyers next offseason.
Thanks for the Cap 101 summary...
Of course, that means we'll spend it on another washed-up moron because "Nobody could have guessed that a 41-year old safety lost a step"
You probably meant to say, "... a vet on a bargain, essentially league-minimum, one-year deal to fill out a roster?"
And we absolutely will do that...
As the cap grows we'll add talent thru the draft, keep extending the good players we've landed and add an prize UFA here and there. The "rollover" will remain banked until it's time to make that final push... and despite the anguish in the peanut gallery, that time ain't 2020.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks for the Cap 101 summary...
Of course, that means we'll spend it on another washed-up moron because "Nobody could have guessed that a 41-year old safety lost a step"
You probably meant to say, "... a vet on a bargain, essentially league-minimum, one-year deal to fill out a roster?"
And we absolutely will do that...
As the cap grows we'll add talent thru the draft, keep extending the good players we've landed and add an prize UFA here and there. The "rollover" will remain banked until it's time to make that final push... and despite the anguish in the peanut gallery, that time ain't 2020.
As the cap grows we'll add talent thru the draft, keep extending the good players we've landed and add an prize UFA here and there. The "rollover" will remain banked until it's time to make that final push... and despite the anguish in the peanut gallery, that time ain't 2020.
Hahahahaha..... I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not... based on the fact that this team has been unable to do any of this for the last 20 years...
Always next year!
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The Defense being “fucked up” is a problem now
You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
No, that is not what I meant, Cowardly Lion. You read everything literally? I guess you must be getting ready for Armageddon. ... in essence I said it is fucked up because nothing has really been done to help it.
But, riddle this : why is it that reports are that we have over 38 mill in cap space....yet Unsymp says we have only like 200 K in cap space? And why is it necessary now to "save cap space" for the future. If you sign a guy now to a contract for the rest of this year....how does that affect next year? Unless you sign that guy again to a new contract for next year?
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You miss my point...
While our D is not good, it's not like it was good last year and somehow we fucked it up, which is what Yipper is saying. As usual he is wrong...
I took your earlier comment as agreeing that this was the case.
No, that is not what I meant, Cowardly Lion. You read everything literally? I guess you must be getting ready for Armageddon. ... in essence I said it is fucked up because nothing has really been done to help it.
But, riddle this : why is it that reports are that we have over 38 mill in cap space....yet Unsymp says we have only like 200 K in cap space? And why is it necessary now to "save cap space" for the future. If you sign a guy now to a contract for the rest of this year....how does that affect next year? Unless you sign that guy again to a new contract for next year?
Browns OverTheCap -- Total Cap Liabilities: $197,990,518 = 2020 Browns salary expenses.
2020 NFL salary cap = 198,200,000.
Maths alert: [198,200,000 - 197,990,518] = Browns are 209,482 under the cap based on 2020 salaries alone. [Note active cap spending is 183.9, dead money is 14 for a total of 197.9]
Also on the most recent link we see a formula: Team Salary Cap = (Base Salary Cap) + (Carryover) +/- (Adjustments).
So, since we see that the Browns are listed as having a "team cap space" of $30,709,629.. only 209,482 of that are due to 2020 salaries under the 2020 salary cap. The remaining [30,709,629 - 209,482] or 30,500,147 is carryover, aka "Rollover." More Detail about Rollover
"Under the CBA, teams are permitted to carry over unused salary cap space to the following season."
Note that from the last link, our FA burned half of our rollover this past offseason.. so don't let yourself think we're not being aggressive.. we are aggressive, we're just not very good at it..
And why is it necessary now to "save cap space" for the future
When we re-sign Ward and give him a 10M bonus.. that bonus would otherwise count against that season's player salary cap and would basically mean we'd have to let a different 10Mm/yr FA walk rather than resign him. Instead, we could use 10M of the 30M currently in our rollover and not let some other FA walk. Sure, you can also amortize the bonus over some number of years but the point is that the 198.2 cap is still a max whether it's a good backup DB or one guy's bonus.
Spending [Wasting!] cap space on FA's who aren't any good is a big part of why priorGM was escorted out of the building..
An example of a good trade that Berry should have done is a 6th [Only a sixth!] for CB/S King from the Bolts who was an All-Pro in 2018. CLE's 6th is better than the pick they accepted from TEN, so this was very doable.
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As the cap grows we'll add talent thru the draft, keep extending the good players we've landed and add an prize UFA here and there. The "rollover" will remain banked until it's time to make that final push... and despite the anguish in the peanut gallery, that time ain't 2020.
Hahahahaha..... I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not... based on the fact that this team has been unable to do any of this for the last 20 years...
Always next year!
Hahahahaha..... I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not... based on the fact that this team has been unable to do any of this for the last 20 years...
It's not...
If you believe our past dooms our future, then WTF are you doing here?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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