Is time bringing OBJ question more into focus?
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I think it is a horseshit assumption based on a purely prejudicial attitude.
5-1 without OBJ in the line up. Don't choke too hard. I predicted it all.
5-1 without OBJ in the line up. Don't choke too hard. I predicted it all.
Well, when it comes to OBJ, you are just a hate filled K-hole. So you have -0- credibility on this subject. And there is NO evidence that the Browns record would not have been the same...or better with OBJ in there. (he was hurt for the Raiders game where he conceivably could have made a difference).
Furthermore, I also think that the success of the Browns as the season has gone along they, partiularly Baker are really getting more with it with Stefanski's system....and OBJ's presence would have enhanced that even more.
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How did Mayfield look his rookie season (without OBJ) and since OBJ suffered a season-ending injury this year?
How did Mayfield look his second season (with OBJ) and this season before OBJ suffered a season-ending injury?
5-1 since OBJ went down. It's that simple.
5-1 since OBJ went down. It's that simple.
And they may have been 6-0 with him...lost that fairly close game vs. Raiders. He could have made the difference. Its that simple. Though it really isn't. Like I said, its the whole familiarity and implementation of the offensive and defensive systems that probably made the difference.
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Well, I think they have wholly underused Hooper and maybe all their TEs....especially since OBJ went down.
I would kind of like to see a "spread sheet", i.e. how they have distributed their passes....spread them out that is, between each position, WRs, TEs, RBs.
I wonder if anyone has a link or something to that.
That's a very big surprise from this season. I really expected this to be an offense that uses their TEs a lot. Most games, they are an afterthought.
That's a very big surprise from this season. I really expected this to be an offense that uses their TEs a lot. Most games, they are an afterthought.
If we don't get Florida's TE Pitts in 2021, then may I send another in 2022, now Soph Aggie TE Jalen Wydermeyer? First team Freshman AA 2019 and go-to receiver this year. Very wide and high catch radius. Very similar to Mike Evans with same height and speed, but a better blocker. I think he is our best pro prospect currently on the team. Take a look at a few highlights from last year. Notice those super-long arms on top of a 6'5" frame. He and Pitts are the two best this year I think, but he has another year before he can go pro.
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Well, I think they have wholly underused Hooper and maybe all their TEs....especially since OBJ went down.
I would kind of like to see a "spread sheet", i.e. how they have distributed their passes....spread them out that is, between each position, WRs, TEs, RBs.
I wonder if anyone has a link or something to that.
That's a very big surprise from this season. I really expected this to be an offense that uses their TEs a lot. Most games, they are an afterthought.
That's a very big surprise from this season. I really expected this to be an offense that uses their TEs a lot. Most games, they are an afterthought.
I wouldn't say they have been underused. They've been extensively done work on blocking on run plays, to later make some big catches on certain plays. What you can't expect is to have the ball going 8/10 times to the TEs... Currently probably it's 3/10 and I think it's OK.
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I think it is a horseshit assumption based on a purely prejudicial attitude.
5-1 without OBJ in the line up. Don't choke too hard. I predicted it all.
5-1 without OBJ in the line up. Don't choke too hard. I predicted it all.
No, you didn't predict it all. When you make a statement that will eventually be true, that is not a correct prediction.
First, you said he would be gone after during his 1st year.
Next, he would be gone in the off-season.
Then would be gone during this season.
Yes, at SOME POINT you will be correct. Whether that is today, end of this year, or in 10 years.
For whatever reason you dislike him. It appears to go beyond him being a good/bad fit for the Browns.
But go ahead and pat yourself on the back, you made a prediction that has ZERO chance of being wrong....
I'll even go one further for you, his is MY MAJOR PREDICTION to rival Icecube, it will snow in Cleveland.
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It's nonsense. The timing is all about the system being implemented, the coaches developing what works
and what doesn't, finding out their identity, and after having a new coaching staff, new systems, and covid little playing
time to get ready for the season, the op article author simply makes an ASSumption that doesn't fit. OBJ was a field stretcher bigtime, this offense would really rock in the playoffs if they got him back. just my opinion.
It's nonsense. The timing is all about the system being implemented, the coaches developing what works
and what doesn't, finding out their identity, and after having a new coaching staff, new systems, and covid little playing
Other than not knowing who "covid little" is, I agree...
We had no camp. We had OBJ for 6 games and change. We've been without him for 5 and change. Through it all Stef has been installing his Offense and coaching Baker up.
I hope to hell we looked better in Week 12 than we were in week 6.
5-1 since OBJ went down. It's that simple.
Overly simplistic horseshit...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
It's nonsense. The timing is all about the system being implemented, the coaches developing what works
and what doesn't, finding out their identity, and after having a new coaching staff, new systems, and covid little playing
Other than not knowing who "covid little" is, I agree...
We had no camp. We had OBJ for 6 games and change. We've been without him for 5 and change. Through it all Stef has been installing his Offense and coaching Baker up.
I hope to hell we looked better in Week 12 than we were in week 6.
5-1 since OBJ went down. It's that simple.
Overly simplistic horseshit...
Other than not knowing who "covid little" is, I agree...
We had no camp. We had OBJ for 6 games and change. We've been without him for 5 and change. Through it all Stef has been installing his Offense and coaching Baker up.
lol ...my bad
"covid - little practice time/few exhibition games to iron it all out as much as possible.
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Pretty sure I knew what you meant, but I can't let that stand in the way of fun...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think it is a horseshit assumption based on a purely prejudicial attitude.
5-1 without OBJ in the line up. Don't choke too hard. I predicted it all.
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So here's Baker Mayfield's career stats, with OBJ and without.
With OBJ:
420 com, 704 att, 60% com, 4922 yards, 7.0 yds/att, 32 td, 27 int
Without OBJ:
412 com, 643 att, 64% com, 5072 yards, 7,9 yds/att, 38 td, 15 int
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So here's Baker Mayfield's career stats, with OBJ and without.
With OBJ:
420 com, 704 att, 60% com, 4922 yards, 7.0 yds/att, 32 td, 27 int
Without OBJ:
412 com, 643 att, 64% com, 5072 yards, 7,9 yds/att, 38 td, 15 int
So here's Baker Mayfield's career stats, with OBJ and without.
With OBJ:
420 com, 704 att, 60% com, 4922 yards, 7.0 yds/att, 32 td, 27 int
Without OBJ:
412 com, 643 att, 64% com, 5072 yards, 7,9 yds/att, 38 td, 15 int
OK, I'm not elated by having OBJ in our team, he gets paid way more than what he has contributed thanks to injuries, but... OBJ came when Freddie Kitchens came on board just to throw to the garbage can all what Ken Zampese had done with Bakers rollouts and PAP after Clueless Jackson was fired...
I would like to know the stats from this year with and without OBJ, but then again as Tour said the team HAD to improve throughout the season, so the comparison is hard to make or oversimplistic. -
Thoughts on my above post:
- Baker averages almost a full yard per attempt more without OBJ, which makes me wonder how much OBJ really opens up the offense and stretches the defense.
- Baker's "Without OBJ" stats for this season has one giant advantage over his "With OBJ" 2020 stats: They don't have Pittsburgh and Baltimore in them. Baker not being pressured vs Baker being pressured is two different QBs. Baker's two giant games this season, vs Cincinnati (the game OBJ blew out his knee in the first quarter) and vs Tennessee were against defenses that brought next to no pressure. His games vs Pittsburgh and Baltimore were not very productive.
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I guess the only thing we can do now is ask the Giants for a trade back
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So here's Baker Mayfield's career stats, with OBJ and without.
With OBJ:
420 com, 704 att, 60% com, 4922 yards, 7.0 yds/att, 32 td, 27 int
Without OBJ:
412 com, 643 att, 64% com, 5072 yards, 7,9 yds/att, 38 td, 15 int
OK, I'm not elated by having OBJ in our team, he gets paid way more than what he has contributed thanks to injuries, but... OBJ came when Freddie Kitchens came on board just to throw to the garbage can all what Ken Zampese had done with Bakers rollouts and PAP after Clueless Jackson was fired...
I would like to know the stats from this year with and without OBJ, but then again as Tour said the team HAD to improve throughout the season, so the comparison is hard to make or oversimplistic.I would like to know the stats from this year with and without OBJ, but then again as Tour said the team HAD to improve throughout the season, so the comparison is hard to make or oversimplistic.
Baker 2020 stats w/ OBJ:
103 com, 170 att, 61% com, 1095 yards, 6.4 yds/att, 10 td, 6 int
Baker 2020 stats w/o OBJ:
102 com, 157 att, 66% com, 1347 yards, 8.6 yds/att, 11 td, 1 int*
* Technically, I could have broken this down even more. I included the entirety of the second game vs Cincinnati in the "without OBJ" stats, when he did play early on before injuring his knee. In fact, the one interception in the w/o OBJ stats was intended for OBJ. It was the play OBJ blew out his knee.
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So here's Baker Mayfield's career stats, with OBJ and without.
With OBJ:
420 com, 704 att, 60% com, 4922 yards, 7.0 yds/att, 32 td, 27 int
Without OBJ:
412 com, 643 att, 64% com, 5072 yards, 7,9 yds/att, 38 td, 15 int
OK, I'm not elated by having OBJ in our team, he gets paid way more than what he has contributed thanks to injuries, but... OBJ came when Freddie Kitchens came on board just to throw to the garbage can all what Ken Zampese had done with Bakers rollouts and PAP after Clueless Jackson was fired...
I would like to know the stats from this year with and without OBJ, but then again as Tour said the team HAD to improve throughout the season, so the comparison is hard to make or oversimplistic.OK, I'm not elated by having OBJ in our team, he gets paid way more than what he has contributed thanks to injuries, but... OBJ came when Freddie Kitchens came on board just to throw to the garbage can all what Ken Zampese had done with Bakers rollouts and PAP after Clueless Jackson was fired...
Absolutely. While stats are often times considered to be "black and white", there are often circumstances for why one thing or another comes out the way they have. Let's flush them out concerning this.
For example, it makes sense that Baker's stats would improve as the season progresses under a new coaching staff. If OBJ had missed the first half of the season, and had played the second half of the season, would Baker's with OBJ and without OBJ stats had stayed the same? Or would they have flipped? And like I said earlier, and the reason I'm still not on the "BAKER IS A FRANCHISE QB bandwagon is that two giant hurdles are in front of him: Baltimore and Pittsburgh. His Without OBJ stats might dip mightily after those two games.
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OK, I'm not elated by having OBJ in our team, he gets paid way more than what he has contributed thanks to injuries, but... OBJ came when Freddie Kitchens came on board just to throw to the garbage can all what Ken Zampese had done with Bakers rollouts and PAP after Clueless Jackson was fired...
Absolutely. While stats are often times considered to be "black and white", there are often circumstances for why one thing or another comes out the way they have. Let's flush them out concerning this.
For example, it makes sense that Baker's stats would improve as the season progresses under a new coaching staff. If OBJ had missed the first half of the season, and had played the second half of the season, would Baker's with OBJ and without OBJ stats had stayed the same? Or would they have flipped? And like I said earlier, and the reason I'm still not on the "BAKER IS A FRANCHISE QB bandwagon is that two giant hurdles are in front of him: Baltimore and Pittsburgh. His Without OBJ stats might dip mightily after those two games.
Absolutely. While stats are often times considered to be "black and white", there are often circumstances for why one thing or another comes out the way the have. Let's flush them out concerning this.
For example, it makes sense that Baker's stats would improve as the season progresses under a new coaching staff. If OBJ had missed the first half of the season, and had played the second half of the season, would Baker's with OBJ and without OBJ stats had stayed the same? Or would they have flipped? And like I said earlier, and the reason I'm still not on the "BAKER IS A FRANCHISE QB bandwagon is that two giant hurdles are in front of him: Baltimore and Pittsburgh. His Without OBJ stats might dip mightily after those two games.
Plus Nick Chubb missed 4 of those games. IIRC, he got injured in the first half of the Cowboys' game (Week 4), and in those first 8 games we played Ravens and Steelers, both times the Offense sucking big time, not only thanks to OBJ... Chubb had season low yards vs the Ravens.
It's hard to analyze a QB's performance in a vaccuum because such thing doesn't exist and there are many factors, but I didn't feel like he was forcing the ball to OBJ, which would be the main argument against OBJ. We have a lot of weapons and Stefanski has been using all of them, or at least that's how I feel like. -
Absolutely. While stats are often times considered to be "black and white", there are often circumstances for why one thing or another comes out the way the have. Let's flush them out concerning this.
For example, it makes sense that Baker's stats would improve as the season progresses under a new coaching staff. If OBJ had missed the first half of the season, and had played the second half of the season, would Baker's with OBJ and without OBJ stats had stayed the same? Or would they have flipped? And like I said earlier, and the reason I'm still not on the "BAKER IS A FRANCHISE QB bandwagon is that two giant hurdles are in front of him: Baltimore and Pittsburgh. His Without OBJ stats might dip mightily after those two games.
Plus Nick Chubb missed 4 of those games. IIRC, he got injured in the first half of the Cowboys' game (Week 4), and in those first 8 games we played Ravens and Steelers, both times the Offense sucking big time, not only thanks to OBJ... Chubb had season low yards vs the Ravens.
It's hard to analyze a QB's performance in a vaccuum because such thing doesn't exist and there are many factors, but I didn't feel like he was forcing the ball to OBJ, which would be the main argument against OBJ. We have a lot of weapons and Stefanski has been using all of them, or at least that's how I feel like.It's hard to analyze a QB's performance in a vaccuum because such thing doesn't exist and there are many factors, but I didn't feel like he was forcing the ball to OBJ, which would be the main argument against OBJ. We have a lot of weapons and Stefanski has been using all of them, or at least that's how I feel like.
See, I disagree with you on that, but I don't blame OBJ for this, I blame Baker.
There has been stretches where it looked to me like Baker was going to do everything in his power to make sure OBJ was involved. I saw many instances of OBJ being covered like wallpaper and Baker staring him down and still forcing throws.
Unlike some here, I don't hate OBJ. I don't particularly like him, but I don't think he's a cancer to the Browns. I just don't think he's a player who can be counted on, a player that when things start going bad, he'll be the guy who steadies the ship. If things are going well, he's fine. If things start going bad, he'll not help turn it around. Plus, he's not someone who can be counted on to be on the field. Simply, I believe OBJ not being on the field, despite his talent, is an example of addition by subtraction regarding Baker.
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So here's Baker Mayfield's career stats, with OBJ and without.
With OBJ:
420 com, 704 att, 60% com, 4922 yards, 7.0 yds/att, 32 td, 27 int
Without OBJ:
412 com, 643 att, 64% com, 5072 yards, 7,9 yds/att, 38 td, 15 int
So here's Baker Mayfield's career stats, with OBJ and without.
With OBJ:
420 com, 704 att, 60% com, 4922 yards, 7.0 yds/att, 32 td, 27 int
Without OBJ:
412 com, 643 att, 64% com, 5072 yards, 7,9 yds/att, 38 td, 15 int
A better measure would be Baker under Stefanski, and Baker without Stefanski.
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It's hard to analyze a QB's performance in a vaccuum because such thing doesn't exist and there are many factors, but I didn't feel like he was forcing the ball to OBJ, which would be the main argument against OBJ. We have a lot of weapons and Stefanski has been using all of them, or at least that's how I feel like.
See, I disagree with you on that, but I don't blame OBJ for this, I blame Baker.
There has been stretches where it looked to me like Baker was going to do everything in his power to make sure OBJ was involved. I saw many instances of OBJ being covered like wallpaper and Baker staring him down and still forcing throws.
Unlike some here, I don't hate OBJ. I don't particularly like him, but I don't think he's a cancer to the Browns. I just don't think he's a player who can be counted on, a player that when things start going bad, he'll be the guy who steadies the ship. If things are going well, he's fine. If things start going bad, he'll not help turn it around. Plus, he's not someone who can be counted on to be on the field. Simply, I believe OBJ not being on the field, despite his talent, is an example of addition by subtraction regarding Baker.
See, I disagree with you on that, but I don't blame OBJ for this, I blame Baker.
There has been stretches where it looked to me like Baker was going to do everything in his power to make sure OBJ was involved. I saw many instances of OBJ being covered like wallpaper and Baker staring him down and still forcing throws.
Unlike some here, I don't hate OBJ. I don't particularly like him, but I don't think he's a cancer to the Browns. I just don't think he's a player who can be counted on, a player that when things start going bad, he'll be the guy who steadies the ship. If things are going well, he's fine. If things start going bad, he'll not help turn it around. Plus, he's not someone who can be counted on to be on the field. Simply, I believe OBJ not being on the field, despite his talent, is an example of addition by subtraction regarding Baker.
About forcing the ball, I had that feeling of forcing the ball LAST year, not this one.
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