Baker Mayfield
-
Zombo said:
He had a 102.4 rating today, with one arm, his two starting tackles out, his best wr out, and his best running back out.
And we've given up 84 points in 2 weeks.
So, maybe take a different angle on this.
Z
QBR is garbage, we've been through this.
One arm? Then Keenum should play, I suggested as much when he injured his shoulder. Remember we had this chat last week and you said "He'll defeat his injury like his opponent". Defeat, Z... like having half your arm being useless is somehow the colonists beating the British. You won't find me arguing about the rest of the personnel, but Bakers decision making, when given the opportunity to make a smart play or a play that wouldn't hurt the team, was incredibly subpar. So while his left arm might be bad, his mind shouldn't be.
You also said "he'll earn your respect back". Baker never didn't have my respect, but you take my observations as overly critical as opposed to what they are - in depth offerings.
Bakers average depth of target is slowly decreasing, it started happening before his injury. The line play hasn't been great, but Baker hasn't been good enough to compensate either. This team is in a funky combination of issues with health and quality of play. I don't see any one player being the sole cause, but the largest microscope will always be put on the guy that always has the ball in his hands.
QBR is garbage, we've been through this.
One arm? Then Keenum should play, I suggested as much when he injured his shoulder. Remember we had this chat last week and you said "He'll defeat his injury like his opponent". Defeat, Z... like having half your arm being useless is somehow the colonists beating the British. You won't find me arguing about the rest of the personnel, but Bakers decision making, when given the opportunity to make a smart play or a play that wouldn't hurt the team, was incredibly subpar. So while his left arm might be bad, his mind shouldn't be.
You also said "he'll earn your respect back". Baker never didn't have my respect, but you take my observations as overly critical as opposed to what they are - in depth offerings.
Bakers average depth of target is slowly decreasing, it started happening before his injury. The line play hasn't been great, but Baker hasn't been good enough to compensate either. This team is in a funky combination of issues with health and quality of play. I don't see any one player being the sole cause, but the largest microscope will always be put on the guy that always has the ball in his hands.
well put......
-
-
Zombo said:
Baker's labrum is completely torn, he's playing, suck it.
Z
You'd probably want him out there if he had a broken arm.
DON'T try and minimize it Z. It's a significant injury that will take 4-6 weeks to heal after off season surgery, and another 6 weeks of rehab to be back to normal.
If it was his throwing shoulder- he'd be done for the year.
You'd probably want him out there if he had a broken arm.
DON'T try and minimize it Z. It's a significant injury that will take 4-6 weeks to heal after off season surgery, and another 6 weeks of rehab to be back to normal.
If it was his throwing shoulder- he'd be done for the year.
he will end up like rg3 if he does not watch himself and let his ego get in the way.....best to sit out the rest of the season for his own good whether he is in cleve next yr or not....shoulder injury took its toll on poor ole bernie....derrick thomas ended his career.......
-
I have a concern with Stef now. Baker has a big personality, and you have to be able to deliver bad news - he shouldn't be playing.
The oline isn't going to be at full strength, you're facing a better pass rush than last week and Baker isn't going to be magically healed. It would take a minor miracle to have his accuracy improved from last week along with his penchant for holding onto the ball.
I just don't see this as a winning recipe without severely cutting down the playbook.
. I just don't see this as a winning recipe without severely cutting down the playbook.
Either he gets put on the shelf and gets surgery, and his season is over, or he continues to play, with middling results.
Either way, this could very well torpedo the Browns attempt at a long playoff run.
-
-
Thanks U... maybe it's not as bad as I initially thought, but it's still not good... Baker has his 10 days off, but if it was me, I'd sit him a couple more games. Other than having Hunt and JOK on IR, if everyone else is full go, MHO is we can take the Steelers with Keenum at QB.
Baker is one tough dude, that shoulder has to hurt like hell. From personal experience- my wife fractured her humerus head in a skiing accident, and they put her on some heavy duty narcotic pain killers for the trip back to Ohio.
-
Zombo said:
With all due respect, Baker is not your wife. And he's worth 7 points a week over Case. He's playing, fuck the shoulder, he has the Super Bowl until the Thursday Night opener next year to have surgery and heal.
Z
Just stop with the rah, rah sis boom bah with Baker already. Or did you miss that background stuff where his pain level is so high, it's affecting his sleep, and the shoulder is swelling up? Stuff like that can't affect his play? Sorry Z, Mayfield will play when the Medical Staff says it's safe for him to play, and not until. Or would you rather trot him out there and see that shoulder get even more screwed up than it already is- (easily could happen) and have Case quarterbacking the team for the rest of the year?
You want my opinion? We're getting Chubb and Conklin back for the Steelers. Minus Baker, we'll be as close to full strength as we've been since the opener. Sit him one additional week- based on that, we should be able to beat Pittsburg with Keenum at quarterback. LOL, or you going to be oblivious that Watt & Company are already making plans- if Baker is in there, make sure when you sack him- he lands on that left shoulder.
-
Zombo said:
We are 0-55 Super Bowls so far.
This is the best roster we have had in those 55 years.
Shoot him up and send him out there... Case Keenum is just a guy ... Baker is a Legend In Waiting.
Z
Of course he'll be a Cleveland Legend IF he wins a Super Bowl. Doubtless he's the best QB we've had since Bernie, and before that Otto. But I don't think there's anyone on the Board old enough to remember seeing him play. My 90+ year old Mom probably does though.
From my medical perspective, it's just not that simple as "shooting a guy up" and sending him out there to face the opposition. Ballpeen and me happen to agree... Sending Mayfield to face the Steelers and Watt is (to my mind) tossing a bloodied Baker into a shark tank.
PS- don't forget that "just a guy" Nick Foles won a Super Bowl when #1 QB Carson Wentz was shelved. The Browns have some quality depth darn near everywhere, learn to appreciate it.
-
Zombo said:
We are 0-55 Super Bowls so far.
This is the best roster we have had in those 55 years.
Shoot him up and send him out there... Case Keenum is just a guy ... Baker is a Legend In Waiting.
Z
Of course he'll be a Cleveland Legend IF he wins a Super Bowl. Doubtless he's the best QB we've had since Bernie, and before that Otto. But I don't think there's anyone on the Board old enough to remember seeing him play. My 90+ year old Mom probably does though.
From my medical perspective, it's just not that simple as "shooting a guy up" and sending him out there to face the opposition. Ballpeen and me happen to agree... Sending Mayfield to face the Steelers and Watt is (to my mind) tossing a bloodied Baker into a shark tank.
PS- don't forget that "just a guy" Nick Foles won a Super Bowl when #1 QB Carson Wentz was shelved. The Browns have some quality depth darn near everywhere, learn to appreciate it.
P.S.- don't forget that "just a guy" Nick Foles won a Super Bowl when #1 QB Carson Wentz was shelved. The Browns have some quality depth darn near everywhere, learn to appreciate it.
Ya... But Nick Foles had a pretty awesome deep ball in his day.... We better hope the OLine and Chubb or Hunt are ready to go soon. Cause we ain't throwing deep with Case...
-
So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.
I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team.
-
Baker had one bad game this season, and the national media, the local media, and a lot of the fans have decided that he is an average qb. Why doesn't it work that way for Mahomes or Jackson? They play like crap, and the blame is shifted to the o line, dropped passes, or anything else. Right now, as of today, Mayfield's qb rating is 97.8. Lamar Jackson is 97.7, and Mahomes is 97.9. You would think Mayfield would be light years behind those 2, just because of the way the media acts. I've decided not to give up on Baker yet. We tend to forget some of the amazing passes he's thrown, not just this season, but over the past 4 seasons. I believe he is the franchise qb. I also believe he has the potential to be the long term answer for us. The problem is, I also believe he has a fragile ego. He listens to his critics and gets stressed, which affects his performance. The shoulder injury doesn't help. While I would like to see him get back in there and play, I have a feeling he's done for the season. If that's the case, we are all done for the season. I like Case Keenum as a back up, for a game or 2, but he's not Baker...not by a long shot.
-
Merge with other Baker thread
-
I think Baker is fine.
He's top10 overall and above Dak in AY/A at 8.5 vs Dak's 8.4. That's addressing how deep the shots are and if he's hitting them.
By way of comparison, Darnold's AY/A was solid weeks 1-3 and was something like 1.5 vs Philly... which definitely matches the eye test, Darnold has been abysmal since week4.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.
I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team.
So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.
I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team.
To say it a bit differently, I feel like the Browns can win a very similar game to what we did last week against Pittsburgh at home. This feeling is only emboldened assuming (well, hoping) that Conklin and Chubb are back as well. Assuming Mayfield isn't going to go under the knife, is it worth another week of rest?
-
I think Baker is fine.
He's top10 overall and above Dak in AY/A at 8.5 vs Dak's 8.4. That's addressing how deep the shots are and if he's hitting them.
By way of comparison, Darnold's AY/A was solid weeks 1-3 and was something like 1.5 vs Philly... which definitely matches the eye test, Darnold has been abysmal since week4.
I think Baker is fine.
He's top10 overall and above Dak in AY/A at 8.5 vs Dak's 8.4. That's addressing how deep the shots are and if he's hitting them.
By way of comparison, Darnold's AY/A was solid weeks 1-3 and was something like 1.5 vs Philly... which definitely matches the eye test, Darnold has been abysmal since week4.
.1...? Neat.
Baker -
7.13 NY/A
8.50 AYN/A
9.4% sck
CLE run % on 1st down. 42.95%
Dak
- 7.87 NY/A
- 8.50 ANY/A
- 3.6% sck
- Also averaging 55ypg passing higher than Mayfield.
DAL run % on 1st down. 31.1%
Dallas is throwing earlier and often, and this shows up on film. Dak is playing at not only the comeback player level, but he's up there in terms of MVP talk. He's been decisive, accurate and an even distributor not making many mistakes and seeing the field well. This started right from the outset when McCarthy put the game in Dak's hands week 1 with a pass 1st, pass heavy approach.
Saying Baker is playing on Daks level is... not accurate. Especially given the Cowboys willingness to allow the pass to setup the run.
-
Baker is terrific. His only weakness may be that he can't run and juke like Mahommes or Lamar Jackson. Speaking off, Jackson looked pitiful throwing vs the Bengals. I he couldn't run like a frightened jackrabbit, I don't know that he would be in the NFL. Keeping him in the pocket is the hard part, and stopping him from throwing to a wide open Edwards is another thing.
Baker is seriously accomplished stats wise. He is the first Brown qb that I think is as smart as Bernie Kosar.
Strictly from a layman's point of view - do NOT start Baker vs the squealers. He's turn. "He won't hurt it worse" was ok to try until
his bone was broken. Gotta admire his desire to win, lead and leave it all out on the field every second of every game.
My concern is, he keeps injuring an injured shoulder, and repeated dislocations happen - it would stretch ligaments, damage cartilage, etc and ruin his career eventually. Let him heal, keep him on the sidelines. Keenum can play the game, he showed that already. The Browns won, and I figure his first game - instinctively he was a little rusty.
Especially with both backup tackles out - I figure Wills will be fine in ten days...hopefully Conklin will be back.
"let Baker play" sounds pretty, but beauty is only skin deep. And the Browns will win the next couple of games with Keenum and they will be 6-3.
But it will take more than a few weeks for the fracture to truly heal, apparently.
https://woundcaresociety.org/long-fracture-take-heal
When it comes to different body parts, average healing times can span from three to ten weeks. For finger fractures, the average healing time lasts about three weeks, metacarpal bones take four to six weeks, wrist fractures take four to six weeks as well, and lower arm will heal in eight to ten weeks. Humerus, a bone that runs from your shoulder to your elbow will need six to eight weeks to get back to normal, femur will need a little more than twelve weeks, and tibia, the bone that goes from your knees to your ankles will take about ten weeks to heal.
-
So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.
I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team.
So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.
I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team.
That shoulder isn't going to be anywhere close to 100% until its surgically repaired. As I've posted, that's around a 12 week process. MHO though is it can't hurt to give him an extra week off against the Steelers. Then it's all hands on deck for a game against the first place Bengals in Cinci.
Baker had one bad game this season, and the national media, the local media, and a lot of the fans have decided that he is an average qb. Why doesn't it work that way for Mahomes or Jackson? They play like crap, and the blame is shifted to the o line, dropped passes, or anything else. Right now, as of today, Mayfield's qb rating is 97.8. Lamar Jackson is 97.7, and Mahomes is 97.9. You would think Mayfield would be light years behind those 2, just because of the way the media acts. I've decided not to give up on Baker yet. We tend to forget some of the amazing passes he's thrown, not just this season, but over the past 4 seasons. I believe he is the franchise qb. I also believe he has the potential to be the long term answer for us. The problem is, I also believe he has a fragile ego. He listens to his critics and gets stressed, which affects his performance. The shoulder injury doesn't help. While I would like to see him get back in there and play, I have a feeling he's done for the season. If that's the case, we are all done for the season. I like Case Keenum as a back up, for a game or 2, but he's not Baker...not by a long shot.
Well, Mahomes stunk against the Titans. I doubt the KC fans are going to be screaming for Chad Henne to start next week. LOL, Derrick Henry had more TD passes than Mahomes in that game. The difference between Baker and Pat is consistency. Mayfield proved he still can uncork 65 yard passes with a bum shoulder, but I'm of the opinion that shoulder is affecting his play, whether he admits it or not. His accuracy has definitely taken a hit.
Baker may never be up to the level of Mahomes or Allen, but on his best days, he's plenty good enough. Sort of like Eli will never be considered as good as Peyton. I'll happily take a couple Super Bowl wins.
He doesn't have the elite arm of an Allen or even a Lamar Jackson. However, the Ravens got the snot beat out of them by a Bengals team led by Joe Burrow- who's arm isn't any stronger than Baker's. Mayfield has yet to prove when we're down a score with 2 minutes left he can lead a game winning drive.
-
So is an extra week of rest going to untear his ligament? If not, then my eye test saw that Case with 2 arms is the better option than Baker with 1.
I like Baker and think he is the best QB the Browns have had since Vinny ( < I'm sure that triggered more than 1 of you) and I really do hope he plays his entire career in Brown & Orange, but at this moment in time there is a better option already on the team.
That shoulder isn't going to be anywhere close to 100% until its surgically repaired. As I've posted, that's around a 12 week process. MHO though is it can't hurt to give him an extra week off against the Steelers. Then it's all hands on deck for a game against the first place Bengals in Cinci.
Baker had one bad game this season, and the national media, the local media, and a lot of the fans have decided that he is an average qb. Why doesn't it work that way for Mahomes or Jackson? They play like crap, and the blame is shifted to the o line, dropped passes, or anything else. Right now, as of today, Mayfield's qb rating is 97.8. Lamar Jackson is 97.7, and Mahomes is 97.9. You would think Mayfield would be light years behind those 2, just because of the way the media acts. I've decided not to give up on Baker yet. We tend to forget some of the amazing passes he's thrown, not just this season, but over the past 4 seasons. I believe he is the franchise qb. I also believe he has the potential to be the long term answer for us. The problem is, I also believe he has a fragile ego. He listens to his critics and gets stressed, which affects his performance. The shoulder injury doesn't help. While I would like to see him get back in there and play, I have a feeling he's done for the season. If that's the case, we are all done for the season. I like Case Keenum as a back up, for a game or 2, but he's not Baker...not by a long shot.
Well, Mahomes stunk against the Titans. I doubt the KC fans are going to be screaming for Chad Henne to start next week. LOL, Derrick Henry had more TD passes than Mahomes in that game. The difference between Baker and Pat is consistency. Mayfield proved he still can uncork 65 yard passes with a bum shoulder, but I'm of the opinion that shoulder is affecting his play, whether he admits it or not. His accuracy has definitely taken a hit.
Baker may never be up to the level of Mahomes or Allen, but on his best days, he's plenty good enough. Sort of like Eli will never be considered as good as Peyton. I'll happily take a couple Super Bowl wins.
He doesn't have the elite arm of an Allen or even a Lamar Jackson. However, the Ravens got the snot beat out of them by a Bengals team led by Joe Burrow- who's arm isn't any stronger than Baker's. Mayfield has yet to prove when we're down a score with 2 minutes left he can lead a game winning drive.
That shoulder isn't going to be anywhere close to 100% until its surgically repaired. As I've posted, that's around a 12 week process. MHO though is it can't hurt to give him an extra week off against the Steelers. Then it's all hands on deck for a game against the first place Bengals in Cinci.
Well, Mahomes stunk against the Titans. I doubt the KC fans are going to be screaming for Chad Henne to start next week. LOL, Derrick Henry had more TD passes than Mahomes in that game. The difference between Baker and Pat is consistency. Mayfield proved he still can uncork 65 yard passes with a bum shoulder, but I'm of the opinion that shoulder is affecting his play, whether he admits it or not. His accuracy has definitely taken a hit.
Baker may never be up to the level of Mahomes or Allen, but on his best days, he's plenty good enough. Sort of like Eli will never be considered as good as Peyton. I'll happily take a couple Super Bowl wins.
He doesn't have the elite arm of an Allen or even a Lamar Jackson. However, the Ravens got the snot beat out of them by a Bengals team led by Joe Burrow- who's arm isn't any stronger than Baker's. Mayfield has yet to prove when we're down a score with 2 minutes left he can lead a game winning drive.
I agree with everything you said with one exception. I don't believe Lamar Jackson's arm is anywhere near as strong as Baker's. Josh Allen...that's a different story.
-
That shoulder isn't going to be anywhere close to 100% until its surgically repaired. As I've posted, that's around a 12 week process. MHO though is it can't hurt to give him an extra week off against the Steelers. Then it's all hands on deck for a game against the first place Bengals in Cinci.
Well, Mahomes stunk against the Titans. I doubt the KC fans are going to be screaming for Chad Henne to start next week. LOL, Derrick Henry had more TD passes than Mahomes in that game. The difference between Baker and Pat is consistency. Mayfield proved he still can uncork 65 yard passes with a bum shoulder, but I'm of the opinion that shoulder is affecting his play, whether he admits it or not. His accuracy has definitely taken a hit.
Baker may never be up to the level of Mahomes or Allen, but on his best days, he's plenty good enough. Sort of like Eli will never be considered as good as Peyton. I'll happily take a couple Super Bowl wins.
He doesn't have the elite arm of an Allen or even a Lamar Jackson. However, the Ravens got the snot beat out of them by a Bengals team led by Joe Burrow- who's arm isn't any stronger than Baker's. Mayfield has yet to prove when we're down a score with 2 minutes left he can lead a game winning drive.
I agree with everything you said with one exception. I don't believe Lamar Jackson's arm is anywhere near as strong as Baker's. Josh Allen...that's a different story.
I agree with everything you said with one exception. I don't believe Lamar Jackson's arm is anywhere near as strong as Baker's. Josh Allen...that's a different story.
RE: Lamar- maybe. Jackson gets away with a lot of crap because of his running ability. If you watched any of the Ravens- Bengals game, Cinci gave a clinic on how to contain him. And he took a bunch of serious hits both in the pocket and trying to run. He's a tough dude, but it's just a matter of time before he takes a kill shot that's going to limit his running ability.
PS- watching that game, MHO- the Browns made a serious mistake letting Ogunjobi walk- he's playing lights out for the Bengals.
-
A few more random thoughts about Baker & the Browns... Is it his fault the Chargers put up 47 points against the Browns? It's been mentioned- the first time in NFL history a team scored 40+ points with zero turnovers- and lost. Fire the defense, and trade Garrett immediately.
Comparison wise- are any of you going to try and tell me Ryan Tannehill who's team just clobbered the Chiefs (Titan Up!!!) is any better than Mayfield? I don't think so. Some guys are never going to be happy regardless. We get a decent quarterback after 20 years in the football desert- and now that's not good enough- we need an all- time GOAT. FWIW, should the Browns win their next two games- we're right where we need to be. In the AFC- everyone is beating everyone else.
Finally- practice today- Chubb and Conklin are back. Yay!!! Baker was not. Reinforces my opinion. Sit him against the Steelers.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login