Baker Mayfield
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Zombo said:
OK, so he went for the bigger play instead of the checkdown on 2nd down. I can live with that. We needed to be agressive against that team. Stefanski admits he made a mistake calling the draw on 3rd down, because he was still caught up in the play before, which he thought they would get a PI.
Z
But that's not really a checkdown that's a first down when up 1 with ball and they only have two timeouts left 3 minutes left. We didn't need chunk plays we needed first downs. I'm not saying baker sucks either. I'm just saying the one is all on baker and he needs to get better at seeing the whole field reading defenses or if he sees it but just went for the bigger the play then he needs to get better at situational football
But that's not really a checkdown that's a first down when up 1 with ball and they only have two timeouts left 3 minutes left. We didn't need chunk plays we needed first downs. I'm not saying baker sucks either. I'm just saying the one is all on baker and he needs to get better at seeing the whole field reading defenses or if he sees it but just went for the bigger the play then he needs to get better at situational football
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
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But that's not really a checkdown that's a first down when up 1 with ball and they only have two timeouts left 3 minutes left. We didn't need chunk plays we needed first downs. I'm not saying baker sucks either. I'm just saying the one is all on baker and he needs to get better at seeing the whole field reading defenses or if he sees it but just went for the bigger the play then he needs to get better at situational football
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
I'm not guessing that HIggins was covered or that obj was open for a first down. Watch the all 22 of the play higgins was never open. Again I'm not saying baker sucks or he deliberately chose to not pass to the open obj. I'm saying he needs to be able to see that and be aware enough to take it in the situation. Case in point of situational football. This drive ends and we punt they score when Johnson has a heads up play and carries ekeler into the endzone. We get the ball back and then Baker wants to throw it short over the middle of the field. Something like we picked up 12 yards in 50 seconds of game time. That's when he should potentially force the ball downfield
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But that's not really a checkdown that's a first down when up 1 with ball and they only have two timeouts left 3 minutes left. We didn't need chunk plays we needed first downs. I'm not saying baker sucks either. I'm just saying the one is all on baker and he needs to get better at seeing the whole field reading defenses or if he sees it but just went for the bigger the play then he needs to get better at situational football
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
The above is true Cal. We can't see what Baker sees. OTOH, it's not being mean to Baker pointing out the numerous times what he doesn't see. OK, you'd have to be dumber than a box of rocks to not think the Browns coaching staff doesn't point out to Baker every time he makes boneheaded decisions, but 8 games into the season- he's still making them. From my POV- the jury is still out if this is a fixable problem- or not.
I even gave Baker a backhanded compliment... Take a look at that screen shot. He had Hunt just standing there uncovered, but the 6'1" Baker probably didn't see him behind the forest of 6'5" players in front of him. Now Stefanski has the added problem that (where he's best at) you can't be rolling Mayfield out a lot, because of the risk he's going to get Watt-ed again.
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What else does Baker need?
Does he need a first round Tackle? All Pro guard? Pro Bowl guard? elite back? Possession WR? Pass catching back? Gadget RB/WR? Consistency in the same system over an offseason?
Year 4 was put up or shut up. Will his job get easier if he makes more money with us and his great support cast is now minimized?
I guess if he becomes a better QB - sure.
I remember thinking how well he did in the pocket sliding around and finding passing lanes in the face of a blitz…that was year 1.
The past month (especially)…he gets a little pressure in his lap and his head is down and he’s stumbling around in the pocket. Did the same throughout 2019 and parts of 2020 too -
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
I'm not guessing that HIggins was covered or that obj was open for a first down. Watch the all 22 of the play higgins was never open. Again I'm not saying baker sucks or he deliberately chose to not pass to the open obj. I'm saying he needs to be able to see that and be aware enough to take it in the situation. Case in point of situational football. This drive ends and we punt they score when Johnson has a heads up play and carries ekeler into the endzone. We get the ball back and then Baker wants to throw it short over the middle of the field. Something like we picked up 12 yards in 50 seconds of game time. That's when he should potentially force the ball downfield
I'm not guessing that HIggins was covered or that obj was open for a first down. Watch the all 22 of the play higgins was never open. Again I'm not saying baker sucks or he deliberately chose to not pass to the open obj. I'm saying he needs to be able to see that and be aware enough to take it in the situation. Case in point of situational football.
watch Baker's.. than check out Mahomes all 22's the last 2 weeks ?.. Both, their OL play/ is playing into this.. Baker maybe playing more skid-ish, protecting a injury compared to Homie ? But,
Baker & Mahomes are both holding the ball to long, moving their eyes/head (down) off down field routes in the pocket.. The ball has got to come out
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What else does Baker need?
Does he need a first round Tackle? All Pro guard? Pro Bowl guard? elite back? Possession WR? Pass catching back? Gadget RB/WR? Consistency in the same system over an offseason?
Year 4 was put up or shut up. Will his job get easier if he makes more money with us and his great support cast is now minimized?
I guess if he becomes a better QB - sure.
I remember thinking how well he did in the pocket sliding around and finding passing lanes in the face of a blitz…that was year 1.
The past month (especially)…he gets a little pressure in his lap and his head is down and he’s stumbling around in the pocket. Did the same throughout 2019 and parts of 2020 tooWhat else does Baker need?
Does he need a first round Tackle? All Pro guard? Pro Bowl guard? elite back? Possession WR? Pass catching back? Gadget RB/WR? Consistency in the same system over an offseason?
Year 4 was put up or shut up. Will his job get easier if he makes more money with us and his great support cast is now minimized?
I guess if he becomes a better QB - sure.
I remember thinking how well he did in the pocket sliding around and finding passing lanes in the face of a blitz…that was year 1.
The past month (especially)…he gets a little pressure in his lap and his head is down and he’s stumbling around in the pocket. Did the same throughout 2019 and parts of 2020 tooBaker unfortunately is consistent on being inconsistent. One game he can be balling out and the next one misses everyone and doesn't see the things he needs to see.
I like the guy and I'm far away from letting him go because he has been the best Browns' QB of the last 20 years, but looking how the season is turning out I would bench him until he is 100% and let the rest of the roster prove if this team is playoff worthy or not. Take the 5th year option and see next year how it goes.
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Going in on the film review in 5, feel free to join on discord and to stick around for the Colts - Jets game.
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Without watching that play
- Baker is 7 years deep. So 5 or 7 step drop.
- the position of the tackle and edge looks like Bosa was carried upfield, finally wrapped back around like what normally happens and was working back towards Baker.
- unreal room for Baker to step up and out. Something that benefits all QB's, but especially ones that are 6'1.
- looks like 3 deep, 3 under given the 5 man pressure. You can call it 3 fire or 3 sky.
That's an educated guess. But since I have gamepass and coach film I'll check it out later. I'm leaving work early and going to be just cramming football tape later. So if anyone wants to join and get the answers to the play above in real time - I'll be on TBB discord.
Without watching that play
- Baker is 7 years deep. So 5 or 7 step drop.
- the position of the tackle and edge looks like Bosa was carried upfield, finally wrapped back around like what normally happens and was working back towards Baker.
- unreal room for Baker to step up and out. Something that benefits all QB's, but especially ones that are 6'1.
- looks like 3 deep, 3 under given the 5 man pressure. You can call it 3 fire or 3 sky.
That's an educated guess. But since I have gamepass and coach film I'll check it out later. I'm leaving work early and going to be just cramming football tape later. So if anyone wants to join and get the answers to the play above in real time - I'll be on TBB discord.
Starting first go through now with broadcast view. I was right about the drop, the rush from Bosa, the room to slide at first glance. The coverage is the fun part. Here is the broadcast screenshots complete with commentary from yours truly.
Motion from Higgy takes this from a 3x1 fast, really a quads to the boundary, to a 2x2 fast but still with passing strength to the boundary. If you're asking how I determined that, the number of eligible receivers is on that side of the center - the boundary (short side) of the field. Stef loves his flood concepts and involving the backs flat as cheese, so we'll tag them the same here.
If you're asking what his achieves?
Helps to more clearly identify the coverage with pre-snap motion.
Creates "eye candy" in the backfield.
Leverages bodies on misdirection or in some cases away from your primary.
Creates mismatches on motions against personnel and coverages that don't check accordingly.
The corners are playing 8-10 off, a hell of a lot of cushion. You can't see him from this angle but the MOTF DB is at 15 yards. You see #33 pick up Hollywood on the motion
.
The Snap.5 man pressure with, what I THOUGHT at first glance was 3 deep 3 under. It isn't, it actually looks like Cover 1. Derwin James takes Higgy in man the whole way. The linebackers, specifically the boundary linebacker, let's call him a SAM, see's Hoop stay in on help and knows he has room to move and play Bakers eyes while glancing for a check and release from the TE.
You guys remember the Out and UP by DPJ against the Titans last year? That is what you're looking at now... The OUT. With Bakers ball fake to freeze the DB and LB.
The UP.
Admittedly, both the route and ball fake worked. The corner stepped down hard and made some big time contact, to the point I'm surprised this flag wasn't thrown. If the NFL is all about illegal contact, then this was it because he engaged first. The problem is that just because the corner made contact and was impeding DPJ upfield, doesn't mean he can't re-win the route. Great receivers do it every game. Even if you don't win off the line, you can still win the route through contact by finishing strong and peeling off the DB'
Baker resets to his left when he see's the contact.
By now I'm hoping he's read man coverage because if he were to just snap this off to Odell it's 6 easy yards.
By the time Baker makes his decision, the corner has recovered underneath and Odell is no longer a throwing option.
But if he did read man... he chose to attack by going to his more trusted target (hollywood) down field against Derwin. Which, in hindsight, isn't a terrible idea. But the ball and pacing weren't all the great. The ball could have had more air on it and been put outside given Higgins leverage.
It's not that Baker straight up "Missed" Odell. His eyes were in the right place for his primary, so you really can't knock him on that as far as play design goes. But having said that, I have some concerns.
- That route at this point in the game. That isn't really something you throw when you need a methodical, clocking killing drive. It's a low percentage vertical shot that, if you don't connect, puts you in 3rd and long on your side of the field. That's a shot you take on 2nd and mid outside of your own redzone on hard play action. Or at minimum against worst safety play. Nasir and Derwin are good and the ball fake to get the corner and linebacker to jump doesn't fix the next little problem...
The Middle field safety (MFS from here out) is sitting just inside the far hash. It's good leverage, but not unbeatable.
The pump means you have now let the MFS follow your eyes to the primary.
Adderly has gone from 15 yards and inside the far hash to 28 yards and moving outside of the boundary hash. Even if Baker had waited and let this bomb fly, it's very unlikely it's a completion. Worse, it might actually have been a pick.
This is that moment where Baker comes off his read after riding out the contact. IMHO, he held onto this read for quite a while.
It was a good decision to not air it out, but I'm also thinking it might have been bad math. By bad math I mean, the right decision, but for the wrong reasons. Because right here, I'm not entirely convinced Baker see's the MFS. I'm not. The Pressure and clock in his head got him off this route more than anything. Which sucks because DPJ did end up re-winning this route and turning it upfield. But the pump was a terrible fucking idea. If you really wanted the home run shot, you needed to hold the MFS inside that hash as long as humanly possible. Instead you basically rang the god damn dinner bell for him to the point that he complete ignores Odell and Higgins working 1 on 1 with more field to use for route combinations.
Last bit, hang with me here. Odell breaks his off, Baker resets and unless this throw was out of his hands with 1/4 second, Odell might have been able to shield himself while making the catch for some cheap yards. BUUUUUT...
This is where Baker needs to go from undergrad to graduate school... Marrying all of these things together. His eyes, head on a swivel, smooth feet that are light until set to drive off.
We know that Baker HATES staying in congested pockets. He hates it. He hates it more than I hate root beer, black licorice and nazis. Not necessarily in that order either. So he absolutely needs to get better on the reset and "2nd chance" throws that don't involve or require him scrambling around like an asshole. The rush has been guided upfield and buy him, he needs to be more comfortable and honestly - better, at sliding up and OUT, creating space for himself. Like any great NBA shooter, you need to be able to create some space for your shot.
Along with that comes his ball placement and pacing on these 2nd chance throws. Higgins has beaten Derwin vertical. Baker can slide out, buy himself a second or so, allow Hollywood a shot to break out over his left shoulder. Just put the ball outside with air and velocity, let your receiver, TRUST your receiver, to make the adjustment. But most importantly, give him the ideally shot at making you look good. Help him help you. @jrb12711 will appreciate that when I get to the Landry throw in the Steelers game.
About where the ball should have gone.
Instead the ball ends up on much lower trajectory, WAY too hot and not far enough outside.
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I didn't have time to do my normal X's and O's with colored lines and such, so I'm hoping you guys can follow along with the pics. Should be fairly obvious.
If not, sorry. When I have more time I'll try some edits.
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Without watching that play
- Baker is 7 years deep. So 5 or 7 step drop.
- the position of the tackle and edge looks like Bosa was carried upfield, finally wrapped back around like what normally happens and was working back towards Baker.
- unreal room for Baker to step up and out. Something that benefits all QB's, but especially ones that are 6'1.
- looks like 3 deep, 3 under given the 5 man pressure. You can call it 3 fire or 3 sky.
That's an educated guess. But since I have gamepass and coach film I'll check it out later. I'm leaving work early and going to be just cramming football tape later. So if anyone wants to join and get the answers to the play above in real time - I'll be on TBB discord.
Starting first go through now with broadcast view. I was right about the drop, the rush from Bosa, the room to slide at first glance. The coverage is the fun part. Here is the broadcast screenshots complete with commentary from yours truly.
Motion from Higgy takes this from a 3x1 fast, really a quads to the boundary, to a 2x2 fast but still with passing strength to the boundary. If you're asking how I determined that, the number of eligible receivers is on that side of the center - the boundary (short side) of the field. Stef loves his flood concepts and involving the backs flat as cheese, so we'll tag them the same here.
If you're asking what his achieves?
Helps to more clearly identify the coverage with pre-snap motion.
Creates "eye candy" in the backfield.
Leverages bodies on misdirection or in some cases away from your primary.
Creates mismatches on motions against personnel and coverages that don't check accordingly.
The corners are playing 8-10 off, a hell of a lot of cushion. You can't see him from this angle but the MOTF DB is at 15 yards. You see #33 pick up Hollywood on the motion
.
The Snap.5 man pressure with, what I THOUGHT at first glance was 3 deep 3 under. It isn't, it actually looks like Cover 1. Derwin James takes Higgy in man the whole way. The linebackers, specifically the boundary linebacker, let's call him a SAM, see's Hoop stay in on help and knows he has room to move and play Bakers eyes while glancing for a check and release from the TE.
You guys remember the Out and UP by DPJ against the Titans last year? That is what you're looking at now... The OUT. With Bakers ball fake to freeze the DB and LB.
The UP.
Admittedly, both the route and ball fake worked. The corner stepped down hard and made some big time contact, to the point I'm surprised this flag wasn't thrown. If the NFL is all about illegal contact, then this was it because he engaged first. The problem is that just because the corner made contact and was impeding DPJ upfield, doesn't mean he can't re-win the route. Great receivers do it every game. Even if you don't win off the line, you can still win the route through contact by finishing strong and peeling off the DB'
Baker resets to his left when he see's the contact.
By now I'm hoping he's read man coverage because if he were to just snap this off to Odell it's 6 easy yards.
By the time Baker makes his decision, the corner has recovered underneath and Odell is no longer a throwing option.
But if he did read man... he chose to attack by going to his more trusted target (hollywood) down field against Derwin. Which, in hindsight, isn't a terrible idea. But the ball and pacing weren't all the great. The ball could have had more air on it and been put outside given Higgins leverage.
It's not that Baker straight up "Missed" Odell. His eyes were in the right place for his primary, so you really can't knock him on that as far as play design goes. But having said that, I have some concerns.
- That route at this point in the game. That isn't really something you throw when you need a methodical, clocking killing drive. It's a low percentage vertical shot that, if you don't connect, puts you in 3rd and long on your side of the field. That's a shot you take on 2nd and mid outside of your own redzone on hard play action. Or at minimum against worst safety play. Nasir and Derwin are good and the ball fake to get the corner and linebacker to jump doesn't fix the next little problem...
The Middle field safety (MFS from here out) is sitting just inside the far hash. It's good leverage, but not unbeatable.
The pump means you have now let the MFS follow your eyes to the primary.
Adderly has gone from 15 yards and inside the far hash to 28 yards and moving outside of the boundary hash. Even if Baker had waited and let this bomb fly, it's very unlikely it's a completion. Worse, it might actually have been a pick.
This is that moment where Baker comes off his read after riding out the contact. IMHO, he held onto this read for quite a while.
It was a good decision to not air it out, but I'm also thinking it might have been bad math. By bad math I mean, the right decision, but for the wrong reasons. Because right here, I'm not entirely convinced Baker see's the MFS. I'm not. The Pressure and clock in his head got him off this route more than anything. Which sucks because DPJ did end up re-winning this route and turning it upfield. But the pump was a terrible fucking idea. If you really wanted the home run shot, you needed to hold the MFS inside that hash as long as humanly possible. Instead you basically rang the god damn dinner bell for him to the point that he complete ignores Odell and Higgins working 1 on 1 with more field to use for route combinations.
Last bit, hang with me here. Odell breaks his off, Baker resets and unless this throw was out of his hands with 1/4 second, Odell might have been able to shield himself while making the catch for some cheap yards. BUUUUUT...
This is where Baker needs to go from undergrad to graduate school... Marrying all of these things together. His eyes, head on a swivel, smooth feet that are light until set to drive off.
We know that Baker HATES staying in congested pockets. He hates it. He hates it more than I hate root beer, black licorice and nazis. Not necessarily in that order either. So he absolutely needs to get better on the reset and "2nd chance" throws that don't involve or require him scrambling around like an asshole. The rush has been guided upfield and buy him, he needs to be more comfortable and honestly - better, at sliding up and OUT, creating space for himself. Like any great NBA shooter, you need to be able to create some space for your shot.
Along with that comes his ball placement and pacing on these 2nd chance throws. Higgins has beaten Derwin vertical. Baker can slide out, buy himself a second or so, allow Hollywood a shot to break out over his left shoulder. Just put the ball outside with air and velocity, let your receiver, TRUST your receiver, to make the adjustment. But most importantly, give him the ideally shot at making you look good. Help him help you. @jrb12711 will appreciate that when I get to the Landry throw in the Steelers game.
About where the ball should have gone.
Instead the ball ends up on much lower trajectory, WAY too hot and not far enough outside.
Starting first go through now with broadcast view. I was right about the drop, the rush from Bosa, the room to slide at first glance. The coverage is the fun part. Here is the broadcast screenshots complete with commentary from yours truly.
1) That route at this point in the game. That isn't really something you throw when you need a methodical, clocking killing drive. It's a low percentage vertical shot that, if you don't connect, puts you in 3rd and long on your side of the field. That's a shot you take on 2nd and mid outside of your own redzone on hard play action. Or at minimum against worst safety play. Nasir and Derwin are good and the ball fake to get the corner and linebacker to jump doesn't fix the next little problem...
This is where Baker needs to go from undergrad to graduate school... Marrying all of these things together. His eyes, head on a swivel, smooth feet that are light until set to drive off.
We know that Baker HATES staying in congested pockets. He hates it. He hates it more than I hate root beer, black licorice and nazis. Not necessarily in that order either. So he absolutely needs to get better on the reset and "2nd chance" throws that don't involve or require him scrambling around like an asshole. The rush has been guided upfield and buy him, he needs to be more comfortable and honestly - better, at sliding up and OUT, creating space for himself. Like any great NBA shooter, you need to be able to create some space for your shot.
Along with that comes his ball placement and pacing on these 2nd chance throws. Higgins has beaten Derwin vertical. Baker can slide out, buy himself a second or so, allow Hollywood a shot to break out over his left shoulder. Just put the ball outside with air and velocity, let your receiver, TRUST your receiver, to make the adjustment. But most importantly, give him the ideally shot at making you look good. Help him help you. @jrb12711 will appreciate that when I get to the Landry throw in the Steelers game.
1) Others have said it- in that game, you didn't need a Home Run, you just needed a couple singles to run out the clock. In that initial screenshot- with the the Chargers CBs a mile off the ball- they were virtually giving up a quick out.
2) You're calling it second chance throws, I called it not seeing guys who are open. MHO- is his thinking in the pocket has regressed. The bum shoulder may have something to do with that.
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Starting first go through now with broadcast view. I was right about the drop, the rush from Bosa, the room to slide at first glance. The coverage is the fun part. Here is the broadcast screenshots complete with commentary from yours truly.
1) That route at this point in the game. That isn't really something you throw when you need a methodical, clocking killing drive. It's a low percentage vertical shot that, if you don't connect, puts you in 3rd and long on your side of the field. That's a shot you take on 2nd and mid outside of your own redzone on hard play action. Or at minimum against worst safety play. Nasir and Derwin are good and the ball fake to get the corner and linebacker to jump doesn't fix the next little problem...
This is where Baker needs to go from undergrad to graduate school... Marrying all of these things together. His eyes, head on a swivel, smooth feet that are light until set to drive off.
We know that Baker HATES staying in congested pockets. He hates it. He hates it more than I hate root beer, black licorice and nazis. Not necessarily in that order either. So he absolutely needs to get better on the reset and "2nd chance" throws that don't involve or require him scrambling around like an asshole. The rush has been guided upfield and buy him, he needs to be more comfortable and honestly - better, at sliding up and OUT, creating space for himself. Like any great NBA shooter, you need to be able to create some space for your shot.
Along with that comes his ball placement and pacing on these 2nd chance throws. Higgins has beaten Derwin vertical. Baker can slide out, buy himself a second or so, allow Hollywood a shot to break out over his left shoulder. Just put the ball outside with air and velocity, let your receiver, TRUST your receiver, to make the adjustment. But most importantly, give him the ideally shot at making you look good. Help him help you. @jrb12711 will appreciate that when I get to the Landry throw in the Steelers game.
1) Others have said it- in that game, you didn't need a Home Run, you just needed a couple singles to run out the clock. In that initial screenshot- with the the Chargers CBs a mile off the ball- they were virtually giving up a quick out.
2) You're calling it second chance throws, I called it not seeing guys who are open. MHO- is his thinking in the pocket has regressed. The bum shoulder may have something to do with that.
1) Others have said it- in that game, you didn't need a Home Run, you just needed a couple singles to run out the clock. In that initial screenshot- with the the Chargers CBs a mile off the ball- they were virtually giving up a quick out.
2) You're calling it second chance throws, I called it not seeing guys who are open. MHO- is his thinking in the pocket has regressed. The bum shoulder may have something to do with that.
- To your first point. The call works in the sense that the corners played the out on DPJ first move VERY hard. They attacked the first move, tends to set you up beautifully for a double move. It's one of those, it's so stupid, yet so genius, type of calls that depending on how it works is how you look as a coach and QB.
- Yes, 2nd chance throws. Not necessarily from a missed window. Bakers primary, his correct primary, was that out and up. It's just that the contact made him hold onto the ball a half second longer than ideal. What would have helped greatly was what I mentioned - his footwork in the pocket, sliding and buying time away from the rush. By the time Baker got his eyes left, the CB was recovering under on Odell. I'm not sure how many QB's in the league make that throw, I'm really not. I'd need some type of film comparison from similarly structured plays to have a better understanding. But the vision on the throw to Higgy wasn't an issue. Baker saw the single, the throw itself was SEVERELY lacking. So if you're going to be critical of Baker for anything, be critical of that itself.
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Zombo said:
It is absolutely a check down.
Higgins was the hot read, he went for it.
OBJ was the check down for a 6 yard gain and 3rd and 4, there is a cornerback, conveniently cropped out, that was right there if they caught it.
All kinds of room for Browns criticism every week, buy if this play is the hill you want to die on ... I don't get it.
Z
- "Hot" is a sight adjust against pressure. Usually that pressure is when defense has sent more than you can block. So, no. Higgins wasn't hot at all on that play. He broke his route off at the top when Derwin slipped on trail tech.
- OBJ wasn't a "check down" A check is just like what it sounds when you check out of something - beyond the intended progression structure, an outlet receiver designed to get some type of positive or at worse, no loss yardage. Odell is part of a route 2 man route structure out of a 3 man pattern. The corner was at 10 yards off Odell, but recovered because Odell and Higgy weren't the intended primary.
I literally just broke down this play above, you're free to give it a going over.
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Zombo said:
He literally was the checkdown. The play was for Higgins, Bake could have checked down and hit OBJ for a 2nd and 6, but he liked the intended throw and stuck with it.
Baker is one of the top 15 qbs in the entire world, reacting in a split second, and ya'll are a bunch of nerds overreacting on a photograph as if you know what the fuck you are talking about.
Z
So..... was my breakdown just too good then. Noted.
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Zombo said:
No, you are one of the nerds that can't fathom what it is to be a talented QB like Bake on one of those split second NFL decisions.
You are basically nerds lighting your farts on fire at the drive-in.
Z
I just noticed you sign the bottom of your posts.
How long until you qualify for AARP? Not even trying to be a dick, just genuinely curious.
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Zombo said:
How long have been delusional about being some sort of NFL expert?
Z
The moment I realized I'm less half the age, twice as athletic and as intelligent as most of the board members here. Who are generally compromised of old, overweight dudes.
So.... yep. Fun chat here.
But the under is going to bust on the colts game. So at least you can hold that one over my head
stop in on TBB discord sometime, would love to hear from you.
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Zombo said:
How long have been delusional about being some sort of NFL expert?
Z
The moment I realized I'm less half the age, twice as athletic and as intelligent as most of the board members here. Who are generally compromised of old, overweight dudes.
So.... yep. Fun chat here.
But the under is going to bust on the colts game. So at least you can hold that one over my head
stop in on TBB discord sometime, would love to hear from you.
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He shoulda' chucked it to OBJ, took some positive yards, and huddled back up. Plus it woulda' made Odell happy.
On one of OBJ's Dad's plays in the video, we had a view of Felton, WIDE OPEN, all alone, beyond the sticks (screw Odell on the other side of the field being open), why in the hell didn't Baker throw it to Felton who was right in front of him? I couldn't believe my eyes when I was watching it live. He didn't throw it to him! So, we had to punt. Baker has made some bad decisions by ignoring the open guy early in the play, so he can look for a bigger throw....resulting in missing the open window and having to force it somewhere, or try and run somewhere. Tom Brady used to love to feed Welker and later Edelman in those short zones and just pile up the first downs.
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Zombo said:
Well we wanna make O'Dell happy , don't we?
Chris Goodwin's Dad could have made the same video about Brady except for they all bought into being one for all.
Fuck O'Dumbell and his pappy...
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Zombo said:
I just saw you threw in overweight. I'm 5'11, 200 lbs, I date chicks way hotter than your Mom, and I ride my bike 3500 miles every year.
I'd join Discord, but I'm afraid you are going to sound like McLovin meets Beiber and I'm going to be so very discouraged that I even responded to your punk bitch ass.
Z
SIR!!! You leave Mclovin out of this!!
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