Baker Mayfield
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Starting first go through now with broadcast view. I was right about the drop, the rush from Bosa, the room to slide at first glance. The coverage is the fun part. Here is the broadcast screenshots complete with commentary from yours truly.
1) That route at this point in the game. That isn't really something you throw when you need a methodical, clocking killing drive. It's a low percentage vertical shot that, if you don't connect, puts you in 3rd and long on your side of the field. That's a shot you take on 2nd and mid outside of your own redzone on hard play action. Or at minimum against worst safety play. Nasir and Derwin are good and the ball fake to get the corner and linebacker to jump doesn't fix the next little problem...
This is where Baker needs to go from undergrad to graduate school... Marrying all of these things together. His eyes, head on a swivel, smooth feet that are light until set to drive off.
We know that Baker HATES staying in congested pockets. He hates it. He hates it more than I hate root beer, black licorice and nazis. Not necessarily in that order either. So he absolutely needs to get better on the reset and "2nd chance" throws that don't involve or require him scrambling around like an asshole. The rush has been guided upfield and buy him, he needs to be more comfortable and honestly - better, at sliding up and OUT, creating space for himself. Like any great NBA shooter, you need to be able to create some space for your shot.
Along with that comes his ball placement and pacing on these 2nd chance throws. Higgins has beaten Derwin vertical. Baker can slide out, buy himself a second or so, allow Hollywood a shot to break out over his left shoulder. Just put the ball outside with air and velocity, let your receiver, TRUST your receiver, to make the adjustment. But most importantly, give him the ideally shot at making you look good. Help him help you. @jrb12711 will appreciate that when I get to the Landry throw in the Steelers game.
1) Others have said it- in that game, you didn't need a Home Run, you just needed a couple singles to run out the clock. In that initial screenshot- with the the Chargers CBs a mile off the ball- they were virtually giving up a quick out.
2) You're calling it second chance throws, I called it not seeing guys who are open. MHO- is his thinking in the pocket has regressed. The bum shoulder may have something to do with that.
1) Others have said it- in that game, you didn't need a Home Run, you just needed a couple singles to run out the clock. In that initial screenshot- with the the Chargers CBs a mile off the ball- they were virtually giving up a quick out.
2) You're calling it second chance throws, I called it not seeing guys who are open. MHO- is his thinking in the pocket has regressed. The bum shoulder may have something to do with that.
- To your first point. The call works in the sense that the corners played the out on DPJ first move VERY hard. They attacked the first move, tends to set you up beautifully for a double move. It's one of those, it's so stupid, yet so genius, type of calls that depending on how it works is how you look as a coach and QB.
- Yes, 2nd chance throws. Not necessarily from a missed window. Bakers primary, his correct primary, was that out and up. It's just that the contact made him hold onto the ball a half second longer than ideal. What would have helped greatly was what I mentioned - his footwork in the pocket, sliding and buying time away from the rush. By the time Baker got his eyes left, the CB was recovering under on Odell. I'm not sure how many QB's in the league make that throw, I'm really not. I'd need some type of film comparison from similarly structured plays to have a better understanding. But the vision on the throw to Higgy wasn't an issue. Baker saw the single, the throw itself was SEVERELY lacking. So if you're going to be critical of Baker for anything, be critical of that itself.
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Zombo said:
It is absolutely a check down.
Higgins was the hot read, he went for it.
OBJ was the check down for a 6 yard gain and 3rd and 4, there is a cornerback, conveniently cropped out, that was right there if they caught it.
All kinds of room for Browns criticism every week, buy if this play is the hill you want to die on ... I don't get it.
Z
- "Hot" is a sight adjust against pressure. Usually that pressure is when defense has sent more than you can block. So, no. Higgins wasn't hot at all on that play. He broke his route off at the top when Derwin slipped on trail tech.
- OBJ wasn't a "check down" A check is just like what it sounds when you check out of something - beyond the intended progression structure, an outlet receiver designed to get some type of positive or at worse, no loss yardage. Odell is part of a route 2 man route structure out of a 3 man pattern. The corner was at 10 yards off Odell, but recovered because Odell and Higgy weren't the intended primary.
I literally just broke down this play above, you're free to give it a going over.
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Zombo said:
He literally was the checkdown. The play was for Higgins, Bake could have checked down and hit OBJ for a 2nd and 6, but he liked the intended throw and stuck with it.
Baker is one of the top 15 qbs in the entire world, reacting in a split second, and ya'll are a bunch of nerds overreacting on a photograph as if you know what the fuck you are talking about.
Z
So..... was my breakdown just too good then. Noted.
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Zombo said:
No, you are one of the nerds that can't fathom what it is to be a talented QB like Bake on one of those split second NFL decisions.
You are basically nerds lighting your farts on fire at the drive-in.
Z
I just noticed you sign the bottom of your posts.
How long until you qualify for AARP? Not even trying to be a dick, just genuinely curious.
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Zombo said:
How long have been delusional about being some sort of NFL expert?
Z
The moment I realized I'm less half the age, twice as athletic and as intelligent as most of the board members here. Who are generally compromised of old, overweight dudes.
So.... yep. Fun chat here.
But the under is going to bust on the colts game. So at least you can hold that one over my head
stop in on TBB discord sometime, would love to hear from you.
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Zombo said:
How long have been delusional about being some sort of NFL expert?
Z
The moment I realized I'm less half the age, twice as athletic and as intelligent as most of the board members here. Who are generally compromised of old, overweight dudes.
So.... yep. Fun chat here.
But the under is going to bust on the colts game. So at least you can hold that one over my head
stop in on TBB discord sometime, would love to hear from you.
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He shoulda' chucked it to OBJ, took some positive yards, and huddled back up. Plus it woulda' made Odell happy.
On one of OBJ's Dad's plays in the video, we had a view of Felton, WIDE OPEN, all alone, beyond the sticks (screw Odell on the other side of the field being open), why in the hell didn't Baker throw it to Felton who was right in front of him? I couldn't believe my eyes when I was watching it live. He didn't throw it to him! So, we had to punt. Baker has made some bad decisions by ignoring the open guy early in the play, so he can look for a bigger throw....resulting in missing the open window and having to force it somewhere, or try and run somewhere. Tom Brady used to love to feed Welker and later Edelman in those short zones and just pile up the first downs.
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Zombo said:
Well we wanna make O'Dell happy , don't we?
Chris Goodwin's Dad could have made the same video about Brady except for they all bought into being one for all.
Fuck O'Dumbell and his pappy...
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Zombo said:
I just saw you threw in overweight. I'm 5'11, 200 lbs, I date chicks way hotter than your Mom, and I ride my bike 3500 miles every year.
I'd join Discord, but I'm afraid you are going to sound like McLovin meets Beiber and I'm going to be so very discouraged that I even responded to your punk bitch ass.
Z
SIR!!! You leave Mclovin out of this!!
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Zombo said:
Larry, I don't know what the fuck your deal is lately, but digging in against our best qb since 1993 is not a good look.
You idiots are dissecting one play like you are NFL coaches or something, and it's embarrassing. He went for the hot read thinking he had a catch or a PI instead of a checkdown third and 4, and it's all OK.
You wanna live and die on this one play, fine. Tim Couch would have thrown it over OBJ's head, Brandon Weeden would have thrown an interception, Charlie Frye would have been sacked, and Johnny Manziel would have been in Vegas. We all are so sorry the high percentage pass fell incomplete.
Ya'll are a bunch of bitches, I'm glad ODB is gone, and you don't deserve Baker.
Z
Digging in nah- as Tia said, it wasn't a hot read, it was a poorly thrown ball- every NFL QB makes them on occasion. I truly hope Baker is the long term answer for the Brows at QB, but I'm also not blind. As to hanging our hats on ONE play- you're in total denial. That was just a fer instance. There's been a few dozen- or notice he's almost never short on his throws? They're almost always high and\or wide. Or as Orion pointed out- there was that completely bonehead play where Baker rolled out right- had Felton past the sticks for an easy first down right in front of him. So what's Baker do? Takes off running and gets stuffed. He hasn't been the same player since he dislocated his shoulder. Period. League leading 80% completion percentage- and now it's a lot more pedestrian. I'm just not giving him a free pass for his current regression. Don't like it? Too fn' bad.
Latest unbiased ranking has him right in the middle of starting QBs @ #15- and currently- MHO- that's exactly where he belongs. You apparently are a wishin' and a hopein' that all the chatter coming from the NFL talking heads is dead wrong- that Baker will never be anything more that a rehash of Andy Dalton. Great- I hope they're wrong too. Yup- Baker was missing around 5 of his starting offensive players- and couldn't overcome that handicap. Speaking of Andy- he was as good as his supporting cast- too early to put Baker in that category, but frankly I'm starting to get a tad concerned. Don't forget I go all the way back to the days of Frank Ryan and Milt Plum. I'm way past the stage of RAH!!RAH!! Sis-Boom Bah!!! Sorry if I'm coming off as cynical, but you're being a total Baker Fan Boy. That Mayfield is better than the motley collection of bums you just mentioned- I'll add in Brady Quinn and Deshone Kizer for good measure. SURE. But just stop acting like he's currently playing like a top 10 NFL quarterback- because he isn't.
Hint: Stop doing those stupid Progressive commercials Baker, and concentrate on football. You're not even close to Aaron Rodgers level yet.
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Yeah, Baker is a one read qb who is talented presnap and has some good instincts. But once he loses the scripted play, he needs to hopefully gyrate around awhile until something comes open. For a wco perfectionist like KS, it probably sucks. He made it work against a soft, covid hampered defenses last year, but things are back to normal this year.
Mayfield is not a absolute bust like Weeden or Quinn. But not a homerun either. Haley's offense was the best for him. Much like it did for fellow one read qb Benny boy back in the day with the Steelers.
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Zombo said:
Well we wanna make O'Dell happy , don't we?
Yeah, I said that rather tongue in cheek. But, from the view of someone sitting on the couch watching replays of the game a couple of days after the fact...things like this come to mind. Hell, it'd be a positive play and you keep the receiver(s) happy all in one fell swoop.
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Yeah, Baker is a one read qb who is talented presnap and has some good instincts. But once he loses the scripted play, he needs to hopefully gyrate around awhile until something comes open. For a wco perfectionist like KS, it probably sucks. He made it work against a soft, covid hampered defenses last year, but things are back to normal this year.
Mayfield is not a absolute bust like Weeden or Quinn. But not a homerun either. Haley's offense was the best for him. Much like it did for fellow one read qb Benny boy back in the day with the Steelers.
Yeah, Baker is a one read qb who is talented presnap and has some good instincts. But once he loses the scripted play, he needs to hopefully gyrate around awhile until something comes open. For a wco perfectionist like KS, it probably sucks. He made it work against a soft, covid hampered defenses last year, but things are back to normal this year.
Mayfield is not a absolute bust like Weeden or Quinn. But not a homerun either. Haley's offense was the best for him. Much like it did for fellow one read qb Benny boy back in the day with the Steelers.
Agree, although Baker is the best QB since Bernie he is not the one who can get it done in the 4th quarter he has proven that.
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I was just thinking of something Peyton Manning said during one of their Monday night casts a few weeks ago. One of the new trends on offense is pre-snap motion in an attempt to get your z receiver on a draw against a WILL backer. It was something he said he had seen more and more offenses working to use regularly.
Which might help to understand the play call with Hollywood on the motion in 11 personnel and drawing Derwin, who would act as a WILL in this case. If the idea is to attack that backer or S vertically, you have to move Adderly quite a ways. Makes me wonder if this was a 2 man choice with a middle field read. If so, it makes sense and Baker made the correct decision going to Higgins. But the execution, the ball placement was poor. He's capable of throwing better, but the questions from me are - how much is injury related and how much is related to a history of up and down ball placement vertically?
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in these offense meetings because it would go a long way in taking my educated guesses and making them facts.
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So Stef calls a draw against the Vikings and it goes for big yardage to convert a third down and I believe it set up critical points before the half. He’s brilliant.
Calls the same play against the Chargers it doesn’t work and he apologized for it.
I know how it works which is why I don’t dwell on that play.
Last week I didn’t like the Chubb wide zone run off tackle on 4th and short …and I think Stef has suffered from a lack of situational awareness in some of these games (not taking points)…But by and large I’m not highly critical at least not to the extent I see on here and other places. He started the Steeler game with 7 of the first 8 plays as a pass…we had to do that at times last year too when teams sold out early trying to contain our run game. No problem there either. In fact, the one smart decision that Tomlin made (he didn’t make many) was making a concerted effort to scheme and stop our run game with two important interior defenders out.
Back to the Bolts game and If we are going to go back the Charger game. I’d prefer to focus on the PI call against us and the god awful wide open deep shots for TDs one where I didn’t even see Browns defender in the screen.
Truth is You could probably diagram five or six plays a game where Baker doesn’t see an open guy or makes the wrong read.
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So Stef calls a draw against the Vikings and it goes for big yardage to convert a third down and I believe it set up critical points before the half. He’s brilliant.
Calls the same play against the Chargers it doesn’t work and he apologized for it.
I know how it works which is why I don’t dwell on that play.
Last week I didn’t like the Chubb wide zone run off tackle on 4th and short …and I think Stef has suffered from a lack of situational awareness in some of these games (not taking points)…But by and large I’m not highly critical at least not to the extent I see on here and other places. He started the Steeler game with 7 of the first 8 plays as a pass…we had to do that at times last year too when teams sold out early trying to contain our run game. No problem there either. In fact, the one smart decision that Tomlin made (he didn’t make many) was making a concerted effort to scheme and stop our run game with two important interior defenders out.
Back to the Bolts game and If we are going to go back the Charger game. I’d prefer to focus on the PI call against us and the god awful wide open deep shots for TDs one where I didn’t even see Browns defender in the screen.
Truth is You could probably diagram five or six plays a game where Baker doesn’t see an open guy or makes the wrong read.
Truth is You could probably diagram five or six plays a game where Baker doesn’t see an open guy or makes the wrong read.
You can make this same statement on the majority of the QB’s in the league right now.
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Truth is You could probably diagram five or six plays a game where Baker doesn’t see an open guy or makes the wrong read.
You can make this same statement on the majority of the QB’s in the league right now.
You can make this same statement on the majority of the QB’s in the league right now.
Yes and No. This is a team with or at least had Super Bowl aspirations right? So the situation is magnified a bit. And he’s making a lot of the decisions with no duress. I’d happily cut the guy some slack if he had a 290 pound DT in his lap while trying to make these decisions. That was year 2. So we drafted a LT. Even though some pointed out he was leaving clean pockets all too often
And then you have times where he’s making the right read and missing horribly.
Year 4 same offensive system finally with great supporting pieces in place - expectations are higher.
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You can make this same statement on the majority of the QB’s in the league right now.
Yes and No. This is a team with or at least had Super Bowl aspirations right? So the situation is magnified a bit. And he’s making a lot of the decisions with no duress. I’d happily cut the guy some slack if he had a 290 pound DT in his lap while trying to make these decisions. That was year 2. So we drafted a LT. Even though some pointed out he was leaving clean pockets all too often
And then you have times where he’s making the right read and missing horribly.
Year 4 same offensive system finally with great supporting pieces in place - expectations are higher.
Year 4 same offensive system finally with great supporting pieces in place - expectations are higher.
wait, Stephanski was hired in 2020. Coach of the Year. This year, everything is going wrong, and it isn't on Baker, not much.
Infantile pouty whiny obj - glad he's gone. Too bad he still gets paid.
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