Baker Mayfield
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Year 4 same offensive system finally with great supporting pieces in place - expectations are higher.
wait, Stephanski was hired in 2020. Coach of the Year. This year, everything is going wrong, and it isn't on Baker, not much.
Infantile pouty whiny obj - glad he's gone. Too bad he still gets paid.
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Year 4 same offensive system finally with great supporting pieces in place - expectations are higher.
wait, Stephanski was hired in 2020. Coach of the Year. This year, everything is going wrong, and it isn't on Baker, not much.
Infantile pouty whiny obj - glad he's gone. Too bad he still gets paid.
wait, Stephanski was hired in 2020. Coach of the Year. This year, everything is going wrong, and it isn't on Baker, not much.
Infantile pouty whiny obj - glad he's gone. Too bad he still gets paid.
I’m not following here.
Im not blaming Stefanski. I’m saying one of the Baker excuses prior to 2020 was third system in three years. That can obviously be a detriment but how is that an excuse with two offseasons and familiarity with the same system. Shouldn’t Baker be more comfortable now?
OBJ was a great decoy (when his head was screwed on straight) but never reached #1 WR status on this team. But I’m not ready to anoint the OBJ departure as a remedy for what ails Baker
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wait, Stephanski was hired in 2020. Coach of the Year. This year, everything is going wrong, and it isn't on Baker, not much.
Infantile pouty whiny obj - glad he's gone. Too bad he still gets paid.
I’m not following here.
Im not blaming Stefanski. I’m saying one of the Baker excuses prior to 2020 was third system in three years. That can obviously be a detriment but how is that an excuse with two offseasons and familiarity with the same system. Shouldn’t Baker be more comfortable now?
OBJ was a great decoy (when his head was screwed on straight) but never reached #1 WR status on this team. But I’m not ready to anoint the OBJ departure as a remedy for what ails Baker
I’m not following here.
Im not blaming Stefanski. I’m saying one of the Baker excuses prior to 2020 was third system in three years. That can obviously be a detriment but how is that an excuse with two offseasons and familiarity with the same system. Shouldn’t Baker be more comfortable now?
OBJ was a great decoy (when his head was screwed on straight) but never reached #1 WR status on this team. But I’m not ready to anoint the OBJ departure as a remedy for what ails Baker
OBJ's departure may be just getting rid of an unwanted source of media attention and maybe a cancer in the clubhouse....... regardless of what talent he has left.
And age 29 is generally the peak of a WRs talent before rapidly decreasing, in OBJ's case that's already begun. Just check the TD production of even good WRs it just happens.
So adios OBJ, I'm sure we'll hear about you again...... somewhere.
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Zombo said:
I get it, I do.
I find it fun to defend Baker, because he's out there hurt, balling, and 95% of the time he makes the right decision, the NFL is brutally tough, and I like to root for our guys.
As for OBJ, I tried to root for him. I think everyone in the organization tried as well ... but it never felt right.
This was a John Dorsey deal,
And Baker Mayfield fits perfectly. He's always felt like exactly the quarterback we needed at this time and place, and I'm proud that he's a Cleveland Brown. I thought he handled the OBJ press conference perfectly.
That does not make him above criticism as a player, some of it is very fair. But if a guy is out there with one wing fighting his tail off for the Cleveland Browns, dealing with major injuries to his stars all around him, and a major unproductive distraction as his "#1" receiver... I'm gonna pull for him, and I'm gonna defend him. That's what makes being a fan fun for me, when you believe in a team, or a player, you go all in. I'd defend Chubb, Myles, and many others the same way ... but QBs are always open to the most criticism.
Either that ... or I'm just a homosexual "fan boi".
But I think it's the first thing.
Z
Hey- I appreciate Baker going out and playing... but not if his injury is affecting his play... Yeah- he's the best we've had since Bernie, and he's not going anywhere.....
I bolded John Dorsey for a reason. Want to take a wild guess which team is #1 on the waiver wire, and take another wild guess who's the senior personnel executive for the Detroit Lions? We're going to ship you off to football Siberia for the rest of the season for being an a-hole Odell.
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Zombo said:
But if a guy is out there with one wing fighting his tail off for the Cleveland Browns, dealing with major injuries to his stars all around him,
First let me say that I loved your post. Yeah, he's a warrior out there. But he STILL shoulda' thrown the ball to Felton who was just standing there, not moving, all alone, 2 yards past the sticks, on 3rd down. Instead he tried to run it. An incredibly dumb decision. And he's no rookie anymore. I'm assuming Keenum throws it to Felton in that situation. And I know Baker's a warrior, but he certainly doesn't want Keenum out there winning games while he's on the sidelines. Who knows, maybe Stef decides to stick with the hot hand.
I've always supported Baker, and any other player that is brought in.....until they demonstrate reason enough for me to lose my support for them. I still support Baker, I'm just not so sure that he's the answer any more. I supported OBJ up until he didn't come out and say something about his Dad's video upload not being a good idea. At which point, one can determine that he's not with us but against us.
I'm thinking that Berry sees Baker a lot like I do (and probably all of us). We have to see a better and more consistent Baker going forward. And that includes decision making as well as accurate throws.
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Zombo said:
But if a guy is out there with one wing fighting his tail off for the Cleveland Browns, dealing with major injuries to his stars all around him,
First let me say that I loved your post. Yeah, he's a warrior out there. But he STILL shoulda' thrown the ball to Felton who was just standing there, not moving, all alone, 2 yards past the sticks, on 3rd down. Instead he tried to run it. An incredibly dumb decision. And he's no rookie anymore. I'm assuming Keenum throws it to Felton in that situation. And I know Baker's a warrior, but he certainly doesn't want Keenum out there winning games while he's on the sidelines. Who knows, maybe Stef decides to stick with the hot hand.
I've always supported Baker, and any other player that is brought in.....until they demonstrate reason enough for me to lose my support for them. I still support Baker, I'm just not so sure that he's the answer any more. I supported OBJ up until he didn't come out and say something about his Dad's video upload not being a good idea. At which point, one can determine that he's not with us but against us.
I'm thinking that Berry sees Baker a lot like I do (and probably all of us). We have to see a better and more consistent Baker going forward. And that includes decision making as well as accurate throws.
I supported OBJ up until he didn't come out and say something about his Dad's video upload not being a good idea. At which point, one can determine that he's not with us but against us.
The events of the past week took the rose colored glasses off of a lot of us regarding OBJ. It probably never was about the TEAM. It was always about OBJ and his stats, which concomitantly raises his asking price on his (likely) final big payday. Well, he pouted his way out of town in search of greener pastures and bigger numbers which he still thinks he's capable of. Lotsa luck.
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Zombo said:
Ya ... he should have thrown the ball to Felton ... that's ONE play. I can find one boneheaded play from all 32 starting qbs pretty much every week.
Every game I watch, QBs miss open guys or do something aggravating ... Brady, Rodgers ... you name it.
He's accurate, he has a gun, he's a strong leader, he exudes confidence. If you don't know if he's the answer then you must have enjoyed those 20 years of questionable play by questionable quarterbacks we all lived through. What do you want to do? Hit the draft again? You gotta be kidding me.
Z
Baker Mayfield is our Andy Dalton.
Andy Dalton was a solid starting QB for years for Cincinnati, but it became obvious that he was limited. A guy who can win some games, but doesn't really elevate the players around him.
So they let him go, and got Joe Burrow.
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Zombo said:
Joe Burrow has thrown 9 interceptions this season ... Baker has 11 over the last TWO seasons.
And he's won 15 games over those two years, Burrow has won 7.
Fucking rats bailing on the ship so soon cracks me the fuck up.
Guy leads us to our first playoff win since 1993, and now he's "limited" because we're 4-4 in a myriad of injuries.
I am disappointed in Browns Fan Humanity.
Z
Baker has always been limited as a NFL QB. Doesn't mean he's bad or he sucks as some people on here contend, it just means his ceiling is only so high.
And there probably isn't a GM in the NFL that would take Baker Mayfield over Joe Burrow.
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Zombo said:
What do you want to do? Hit the draft again? You gotta be kidding me.
Lol....after posting my thoughts, for shits & giggles, I went and looked up the top 10 college QB's. I like the tall ones with strong arms. Carson Strong, Nevada, 6 ft 4.
Of course Baker is the best WE'VE had in the last quarter century. Hands down. Most everyone wants him to be the one. The way he debuted against the Jets that Thursday night was magical. But now, if we're trailing late in the 4th quarter and need to get down the field and score...well, I can't remember the last time we've succeeded in winning one of those games. I'm sure it's not too long ago though.
Now, with our WR situation deteriorating (OBJ gone, Landry gimpy, DPJ seeming injury prone), RT out....this season has the potential to go to hell in a handbasket. (in which case I'll take Carson Strong
) But on the other hand, did DPJ ever dream of being a #1 WR in the NFL? This is his chance. Can Higgins get back into sync with Baker? Can Landry stay healthy? Can we get consistent production from the TE's? Can we get back to running the ball effectively? The answers can certainly be yes. In which case we'll be good enough to string a bunch of wins together and make a playoff run. - Let's hope for that. Because nobody wants us to be back to square one.
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Zombo said:
Joe Burrow has thrown 9 interceptions this season ... Baker has 11 over the last TWO seasons.
And he's won 15 games over those two years, Burrow has won 7.
Fucking rats bailing on the ship so soon cracks me the fuck up.
Guy leads us to our first playoff win since 1993, and now he's "limited" because we're 4-4 in a myriad of injuries.
I am disappointed in Browns Fan Humanity.
Z
1) As has been said- there isn't a GM in the NFL right now who would trade Joe Burrow for Baker right now- straight up. FWIW, living in Bengal Land- I'll 100% agree.
2) We're NOT bailing- we just dont have your 100% homer glasses on like you do.
Zombo said:
Ya, his injury dropped six balls and fumbled away a scoring drive this week.
Z
I didn't put that loss on Baker. Drive killing drops. If it's not one thing, it's something else. Get ready Z- a loss Sunday (I'm expecting it) and scouting college prospects gets into full swing. We haven't beaten a team with a winning record yet.
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Zombo said:
What exactly are his limits?
Z
is?... what it is? The gut'zie Player...
Baker has done nothing, but shown his.. love.. leadership.. and team-mate-warrior-ship.. that still will run through a wall to win a game... he loves playing the game..
including the guts to go make a tackle (the how) ...or block (still) when needed...
now others are finding ways to use this against him.. to... _______________ yada/yada/yada
I'm not here to toss arrows at the facts of how #6 got hurt ?
Berry has all the game-tape/ The Room.... to make a honest choice at the position...
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Zombo said:
What exactly are his limits?
Z
For one, his height.
He often times struggles to throw from the pocket, hence why Stefanski designed so many roll-outs or play-action passes for Baker. Problem is, teams are starting to get hip to that, and the roll-outs are becoming more difficult to execute. I also believe why so many of Baker's passes are high is because he's trying to throw behind a wall of OLinemen much taller than he is. High passes from Baker are not specific to just his recent injury.
To be fair, I also suspect Stefanski's offense is somewhat limited too. Many have criticized Baker for his inability to lead game winning drives, but I don't think this offense is one that is built to come back from behind either. Basically, I don't think Baker or this offense is all that good at passing when everyone knows they need to pass.
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Zombo said:
Not sure how height is a limitation when I see the careers of Drew Brees and Russell Wilson.
He's had 7 game-winning drives as a starter, but none this year, however you think that is more of a Stefanski thing.
Staggering case you have presented, Counselor.
Z
Kyler Murray is the shortest starting QB in the league at 5’10”.
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Zombo said:
Not sure how height is a limitation when I see the careers of Drew Brees and Russell Wilson.
He's had 7 game-winning drives as a starter, but none this year, however you think that is more of a Stefanski thing.
Staggering case you have presented, Counselor.
Z
Kyler Murray is the shortest starting QB in the league at 5’10”.
Kyler Murray is the shortest starting QB in the league at 5’10”.
If Kyler Murray is 5'10, I'm Asian. I don't know who they bought off at the combine, but I'm sure it wasn't cheap.
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Zombo said:
I get it, I do.
I find it fun to defend Baker, because he's out there hurt, balling, and 95% of the time he makes the right decision, the NFL is brutally tough, and I like to root for our guys.
The second down throw does not eat at me, but the third down draw call does. Stef admitted his fault there, so I've moved on.
As for OBJ, I tried to root for him. I think everyone in the organization tried as well ... but it never felt right.
This was a John Dorsey deal, and he didn't fit either, and neither did Freddy Kitchins. Now, it's completely Berry's show, and Stefanski fits perfectly.
And Baker Mayfield fits perfectly. He's always felt like exactly the quarterback we needed at this time and place, and I'm proud that he's a Cleveland Brown. I thought he handled the OBJ press conference perfectly.
That does not make him above criticism as a player, some of it is very fair. But if a guy is out there with one wing fighting his tail off for the Cleveland Browns, dealing with major injuries to his stars all around him, and a major unproductive distraction as his "#1" receiver... I'm gonna pull for him, and I'm gonna defend him. That's what makes being a fan fun for me, when you believe in a team, or a player, you go all in. I'd defend Chubb, Myles, and many others the same way ... but QBs are always open to the most criticism.
Either that ... or I'm just a homosexual "fan boi".
But I think it's the first thing.
Z
This gives catching some Zs all new meaning!
Don't know how many people on this board know this but YOU are the reason this board LIVED after it's owner died as well as Hag 2's generosity! One of my last conversations with Stan (Atenears/Skippy)- he said "Flugel, do you have any idea what a pain in the ass Zombo's Queer Eye for the Cleveland Browns is to me? He's the ONLY reason you guys still have a board. And he's not even from Cleveland - he's from NW Pennsylvania!"
The BIGGEST problem I saw with the Baker - OBJ lack of chemistry is the SAME problem we saw in 2019. Both of our Starting Tackles were missing plus the guy under contract designated to be their #1 back-up (Hubbard) went on IR this year. If that didn't give anyone flashbacks to the "Paper Champions" label TN gave us when we lost both starting tackles and the backup LT Kendall Lamm in the opener - it should have. Baker got KILLED in that opener following a very promising rookie season. The results we're not enough time to go deep and a running game with inconsistent daylight available. SAME shit - different year. Having said that, the new FO addressed and prioritized OT (and depth of it) before 2020 (Wills in rd 1 and Conklin in FA) resulting in an 11-5 regular season punctuated with a playoff win in Pittsburgh. This year they also kept Hubbard to be the #1 backup; but bad luck is bad luck. Not only did this impact the passing game - but it also clamped our running game into a bear claw at times. Baker isn't the only guy behind Center that got injured - both Chubb and Hunt got beat up enough to miss starts. Is it only a coincidence or does losing your 1st 3 Tackles on the depth chart change time to throw and consistency of daylight to run to? I think the accuracy issues from Baker at times and dropped passes from OBJ were the uncomfortable symptoms stemmed from the situation at OT.
The 1 thing I will say is that Baker and OBJ did get together in the offseasons that OBJ was healthy enough to do so. They did TRY despite what some of the sports media guys are accusing Baker of not attempting to do (Michael Robinson and James Jones whom I normally respect when they include the inconvenient truths in their research). Another thing that OBJ never got credit for was blocking people downfield. He lit someone up just a couple weeks despite his frustration about his role in the passing game. All that said, when OBJ misses training camp - it's not that tough to understand why Baker has better chemistry with guys that were here. I WANTED this to work; but seeing the way OBJ SR went public turned this into a "War of the Roses" divorce we didn't need.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Zombo said:
Not sure how height is a limitation when I see the careers of Drew Brees and Russell Wilson.
He's had 7 game-winning drives as a starter, but none this year, however you think that is more of a Stefanski thing.
Staggering case you have presented, Counselor.
Z
I'm sorry, I guess you think everyone is exactly the same. The idea that two people could have the same disadvantage, one overcomes it, the other struggles from it, just has never crossed your mind, huh?
And the list of QBs Baker's age, that GMs would jump all over before Baker is a pretty long one. Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert at the minimum.
But keep up your homer "I"M A GREAT TRUE-BLUE BROWNS FAN AND YOU ARE NOT" posts. They are entertaining, at the least.
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Zombo said:
I get it, I do.
I find it fun to defend Baker, because he's out there hurt, balling, and 95% of the time he makes the right decision, the NFL is brutally tough, and I like to root for our guys.
The second down throw does not eat at me, but the third down draw call does. Stef admitted his fault there, so I've moved on.
As for OBJ, I tried to root for him. I think everyone in the organization tried as well ... but it never felt right.
This was a John Dorsey deal, and he didn't fit either, and neither did Freddy Kitchins. Now, it's completely Berry's show, and Stefanski fits perfectly.
And Baker Mayfield fits perfectly. He's always felt like exactly the quarterback we needed at this time and place, and I'm proud that he's a Cleveland Brown. I thought he handled the OBJ press conference perfectly.
That does not make him above criticism as a player, some of it is very fair. But if a guy is out there with one wing fighting his tail off for the Cleveland Browns, dealing with major injuries to his stars all around him, and a major unproductive distraction as his "#1" receiver... I'm gonna pull for him, and I'm gonna defend him. That's what makes being a fan fun for me, when you believe in a team, or a player, you go all in. I'd defend Chubb, Myles, and many others the same way ... but QBs are always open to the most criticism.
Either that ... or I'm just a homosexual "fan boi".
But I think it's the first thing.
Z
This gives catching some Zs all new meaning!
Don't know how many people on this board know this but YOU are the reason this board LIVED after it's owner died as well as Hag 2's generosity! One of my last conversations with Stan (Atenears/Skippy)- he said "Flugel, do you have any idea what a pain in the ass Zombo's Queer Eye for the Cleveland Browns is to me? He's the ONLY reason you guys still have a board. And he's not even from Cleveland - he's from NW Pennsylvania!"
The BIGGEST problem I saw with the Baker - OBJ lack of chemistry is the SAME problem we saw in 2019. Both of our Starting Tackles were missing plus the guy under contract designated to be their #1 back-up (Hubbard) went on IR this year. If that didn't give anyone flashbacks to the "Paper Champions" label TN gave us when we lost both starting tackles and the backup LT Kendall Lamm in the opener - it should have. Baker got KILLED in that opener following a very promising rookie season. The results we're not enough time to go deep and a running game with inconsistent daylight available. SAME shit - different year. Having said that, the new FO addressed and prioritized OT (and depth of it) before 2020 (Wills in rd 1 and Conklin in FA) resulting in an 11-5 regular season punctuated with a playoff win in Pittsburgh. This year they also kept Hubbard to be the #1 backup; but bad luck is bad luck. Not only did this impact the passing game - but it also clamped our running game into a bear claw at times. Baker isn't the only guy behind Center that got injured - both Chubb and Hunt got beat up enough to miss starts. Is it only a coincidence or does losing your 1st 3 Tackles on the depth chart change time to throw and consistency of daylight to run to? I think the accuracy issues from Baker at times and dropped passes from OBJ were the uncomfortable symptoms stemmed from the situation at OT.
The 1 thing I will say is that Baker and OBJ did get together in the offseasons that OBJ was healthy enough to do so. They did TRY despite what some of the sports media guys are accusing Baker of not attempting to do (Michael Robinson and James Jones whom I normally respect when they include the inconvenient truths in their research). Another thing that OBJ never got credit for was blocking people downfield. He lit someone up just a couple weeks despite his frustration about his role in the passing game. All that said, when OBJ misses training camp - it's not that tough to understand why Baker has better chemistry with guys that were here. I WANTED this to work; but seeing the way OBJ SR went public turned this into a "War of the Roses" divorce we didn't need.
The BIGGEST problem I saw with the Baker - OBJ lack of chemistry is the SAME problem we saw in 2019.
To me, the reason why Baker and OBJ didn't work was a relatively simple one:
Baker with the Browns is a system QB. He played well under Stefanski's orchestration last season, specifically in the second half of the season without OBJ, because he bought into Stef's system and performed it well. When you are a QB running a regulated system, having a WR who seemingly didn't work under the system, but free-lances his way through a route tree, it will not work. When Baker fakes a run to Chubb, rolls to the right, and expects a certain receiver to run a 8 yard out route, the receiver better run a 8 yard out route. OBJ does not do that, and I recall complaints about OBJ free-lancing back to his time with the Giants. Baker is a system QB who is going to struggle developing chemistry with a WR who doesn't play within a system.
I think this is why "OBJ was open and Baker didn't even look at him" happened so often. Baker probably stopped looking his way because OBJ consistently wasn't where he expected him to be.
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Watching "Browns LIve" on tv - Joe Thomas said the Browns didn't run as well because with a hurt qb, hurt wr's, hurt RT, banged up LT..... they crowded the los to stop the run. And just as I said - they cheapshotted Baker - one hit him low, the other hit him high, and good job THAT TIME - it was called. It was LATE. It's what they do.
I had been waiting for Higgins to start making more than 1, maybe two catches a game. How many years has it been?
My opinion, there is a lot more to being an "elite" qb than having a good arm and being ...."the best pure pocket passer". (Josh Rosen reference).
It's fair to say Baker isn't at his best right now. But if his wr's had caught the passes they should have caught - Baker could have had an excellent game, a very high completion percentage.
Me, I was amazed Baker could really zing some passes like he did. With a fractured bone in his nonthrowing shoulder ? a brace?
I still think Keenum should have started vs the squealers.
and, OBJ was a cancer with the Giants. Too bad obj didn't learn from Jarvis Landry how to be a team player. But with obj, it was all about obj and his "brand". Addition by subtraction, says I.
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Also, when OBJ freelances from step 2 of his route, can't say "Baker isn't throwing to him" because OBJ isn't where he's supposed to be on that play.
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Watching "Browns LIve" on tv - Joe Thomas said the Browns didn't run as well because with a hurt qb, hurt wr's, hurt RT, banged up LT..... they crowded the los to stop the run. And just as I said - they cheapshotted Baker - one hit him low, the other hit him high, and good job THAT TIME - it was called. It was LATE. It's what they do.
I had been waiting for Higgins to start making more than 1, maybe two catches a game. How many years has it been?
My opinion, there is a lot more to being an "elite" qb than having a good arm and being ...."the best pure pocket passer". (Josh Rosen reference).
It's fair to say Baker isn't at his best right now. But if his wr's had caught the passes they should have caught - Baker could have had an excellent game, a very high completion percentage.
Me, I was amazed Baker could really zing some passes like he did. With a fractured bone in his nonthrowing shoulder ? a brace?
I still think Keenum should have started vs the squealers.
and, OBJ was a cancer with the Giants. Too bad obj didn't learn from Jarvis Landry how to be a team player. But with obj, it was all about obj and his "brand". Addition by subtraction, says I.
Watching "Browns LIve" on tv - Joe Thomas said the Browns didn't run as well because with a hurt qb, hurt wr's, hurt RT, banged up LT..... they crowded the los to stop the run. And just as I said - they cheapshotted Baker - one hit him low, the other hit him high, and good job THAT TIME - it was called. It was LATE. It's what they do.
I had been waiting for Higgins to start making more than 1, maybe two catches a game. How many years has it been?
My opinion, there is a lot more to being an "elite" qb than having a good arm and being ...."the best pure pocket passer". (Josh Rosen reference).
It's fair to say Baker isn't at his best right now. But if his wr's had caught the passes they should have caught - Baker could have had an excellent game, a very high completion percentage.
Me, I was amazed Baker could really zing some passes like he did. With a fractured bone in his nonthrowing shoulder ? a brace?
I still think Keenum should have started vs the squealers.
and, OBJ was a cancer with the Giants. Too bad obj didn't learn from Jarvis Landry how to be a team player. But with obj, it was all about obj and his "brand". Addition by subtraction, says I.
so these are all joes words
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