Baker Mayfield
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Well if there was ever a year where he's surrounded by a ton of talent and there appears to be a clear shot at the AFC crown, it's this year for Baker to get that Super Bowl MVP.
I mean, as a Browns fan, is there an AFC team right now, THIS SEASON, that makes you say "Oh wow, THAT team would be scary for the Browns to have to beat"?
The path to the Super Bowl is wide open for the Browns.
On this.. We can agree on..
On this.. We can agree on..
And thank you kind sir for taking me off ignore.
You have no idea how much that means to me, to have someone of your intelligence agreeing with me on something, even if it is only this one time.
May a Browns win today bring you joy, my dearest of friends.
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And thank you kind sir for taking me off ignore.
You have no idea how much that means to me, to have someone of your intelligence agreeing with me on something, even if it is only this one time.
May a Browns win today bring you joy, my dearest of friends.
Unlike some folks in the world.. I'm Man enough not to hold grudges.. I watched bitterness kill my father...
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LJ by a landslide... The threat of his legs is so great that his arm/ Head limitations in the passing game matter not. And it is now clear that he brings all the intangibles Baker does... e.g., leadership.
Limits? Yes... but he is still learning at the Pro level and so those limits might ease with time. He has the tools, just needs the refinement. Easier said than realized... hell to the yeah... but so long as he runs smartly and avoids major injury... he has a chance.
If he does not, then he could go the way of Mahomes, from whom some of the luster has faded.
Hmmm... I suppose a legit question is- if Jackson couldn't run like Kareem Hunt (LJ is the same weight, but 3" taller) just how good a QB would he be?
I'll let Tia correct me on the details- but the way the outmanned Dolphins beat him was to use a six man front, take away his outside running lanes, (and in the process collapse the pocket) and use a cover zero defensive backfield. Lamar couldn't figure out who was dropping into coverage. For sure, Jackson is a supreme athlete- but listening to him talk, I doubt he's up there on the Ryan Fitzpatrick IQ level. To date in 3-1\2 seasons, he's already more than half way to breaking Michael Vick's 15 season career rushing totals for a QB. Barring injury- he only needs about 2,600 more yards. (Yeah, I had to look it up.)
Credit Lamar for have an uncanny ability to avoid taking kill shots- but you have to know- one is coming sooner or later.
Hmmm... I suppose a legit question is- if Jackson couldn't run like Kareem Hunt (LJ is the same weight, but 3" taller) just how good a QB would he be?
I'll let Tia correct me on the details- but the way the outmanned Dolphins beat him was to use a six man front, take away his outside running lanes, (and in the process collapse the pocket) and use a cover zero defensive backfield. Lamar couldn't figure out who was dropping into coverage. For sure, Jackson is a supreme athlete- but listening to him talk.
Legit question, h… even if the last bit strays close to OB. UL ain’t Ivy League??
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LJ by a landslide... The threat of his legs is so great that his arm/ Head limitations in the passing game matter not. And it is now clear that he brings all the intangibles Baker does... e.g., leadership.
Limits? Yes... but he is still learning at the Pro level and so those limits might ease with time. He has the tools, just needs the refinement. Easier said than realized... hell to the yeah... but so long as he runs smartly and avoids major injury... he has a chance.
If he does not, then he could go the way of Mahomes, from whom some of the luster has faded.
Hmmm... I suppose a legit question is- if Jackson couldn't run like Kareem Hunt (LJ is the same weight, but 3" taller) just how good a QB would he be?
I'll let Tia correct me on the details- but the way the outmanned Dolphins beat him was to use a six man front, take away his outside running lanes, (and in the process collapse the pocket) and use a cover zero defensive backfield. Lamar couldn't figure out who was dropping into coverage. For sure, Jackson is a supreme athlete- but listening to him talk, I doubt he's up there on the Ryan Fitzpatrick IQ level. To date in 3-1\2 seasons, he's already more than half way to breaking Michael Vick's 15 season career rushing totals for a QB. Barring injury- he only needs about 2,600 more yards. (Yeah, I had to look it up.)
Credit Lamar for have an uncanny ability to avoid taking kill shots- but you have to know- one is coming sooner or later.
Hmmm... I suppose a legit question is- if Jackson couldn't run like Kareem Hunt (LJ is the same weight, but 3" taller) just how good a QB would he be?
I'll let Tia correct me on the details- but the way the outmanned Dolphins beat him was to use a six man front, take away his outside running lanes, (and in the process collapse the pocket) and use a cover zero defensive backfield. Lamar couldn't figure out who was dropping into coverage. For sure, Jackson is a supreme athlete- but listening to him talk, I doubt he's up there on the Ryan Fitzpatrick IQ level. To date in 3-1\2 seasons, he's already more than half way to breaking Michael Vick's 15 season career rushing totals for a QB. Barring injury- he only needs about 2,600 more yards. (Yeah, I had to look it up.)
Credit Lamar for have an uncanny ability to avoid taking kill shots- but you have to know- one is coming sooner or later.
I'm lucky I caught a glimpse of this. If you want my input buddy, just tag me next time.
I'll give the all-22 a going over and get back to you. But the way the Titans and Bolts beat him in the playoffs was to attack the mesh on the option, then play man coverage behind certain 5 man pressures.
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Hmmm... I suppose a legit question is- if Jackson couldn't run like Kareem Hunt (LJ is the same weight, but 3" taller) just how good a QB would he be?
I'll let Tia correct me on the details- but the way the outmanned Dolphins beat him was to use a six man front, take away his outside running lanes, (and in the process collapse the pocket) and use a cover zero defensive backfield. Lamar couldn't figure out who was dropping into coverage. For sure, Jackson is a supreme athlete- but listening to him talk, I doubt he's up there on the Ryan Fitzpatrick IQ level. To date in 3-1\2 seasons, he's already more than half way to breaking Michael Vick's 15 season career rushing totals for a QB. Barring injury- he only needs about 2,600 more yards. (Yeah, I had to look it up.)
Credit Lamar for have an uncanny ability to avoid taking kill shots- but you have to know- one is coming sooner or later.
I'm lucky I caught a glimpse of this. If you want my input buddy, just tag me next time.
I'll give the all-22 a going over and get back to you. But the way the Titans and Bolts beat him in the playoffs was to attack the mesh on the option, then play man coverage behind certain 5 man pressures.
I'm lucky I caught a glimpse of this. If you want my input buddy, just tag me next time.
I'll give the all-22 a going over and get back to you. But the way the Titans and Bolts beat him in the playoffs was to attack the mesh on the option, then play man coverage behind certain 5 man pressures.
Yes…add the Raiders this year. They attacked the mesh point. I remember watching that game thinking okay if the Raiders can do this why can’t we.
Good article here on it too. Raiders went cover 3 with the secondary having eyes in the backfield too
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.silverandblackpride.com/platform/amp/2021/9/17/22678276/raiders-defense-ravens-lamar-jackson -
Zombo said:
Maybe I came late to the show here, but I was responding to the statement that Jackson IS the better PASSER.
I don't believe he is.
As far as career ... we'll see ... but I'd bet on Baker winning a SB MVP before Jackson does.
Z
Well, unfortunately- that won't be this year Z. I won't totally put the Patriots loss on Baker, but our defense plays like Mount Everest one week, Marianas Trench the next isn't going to get it done. Typical Bill B. game... When I find something that works- I'm going to keep doing it, until you prove you can stop it. WE COULDN'T. Like runs up the middle. And when you sell out on that- I'll just get 10 yards at a crack running wide.
Yeah- the Tampa Brady's got beat today too.... This year it's going to be minimizing your blowouts... this was Browns suck game #?
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Re-watching the first half now. Game was over, chess speaking, during the first Patriots scoring drive. It's an absolute masterclass in play calling. It's almost like watching basketball and running a pick and roll until you get the matchup you wanted. Patriots really stayed in 21 and 22 personnel early and went at our starting IDL. They held up pretty alright in all honesty. But the idea was to run and throw on our backup IDL after hitting the body blows against the starters. Togiai, Elliot, Jackson... all lost their matchups and lost bad.
Our backups aren't NFL quality at the moment and if you're weak up the middle, then your whole defense is weak.
edit: A scary familiar theme where the offense finds itself completely fucked - straight drops. I would love to see it, but Bakers passer ratings when not using play action has to fall a TON. Especially this season. That out to Njoku that was housed by Duggar is a problem for 2 reasons. First - It's a roll to 2 shell post snap and Baker locked into the out the whole way VERY pre-determined throw. That corner was in trail and peeking back, which is why I mentioned 2 trap. He completely falls off DPJ running upfield onto Bakers eyes. Even if the read was good, it was a 17 yard throw WAY to low and inside. The read was bad, the throw was even worse. Lucky it wasn't caught or it could have gotten David killed.
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Baker is an average QB, been saying it since day 1. When the offense is running the ball effectively he looks a lot better than he is.
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He just doesn't. He is fine when the rushing game and D are kicking butt, but, he cannot save the day when they aren't, and a top QB often can. He is an average QB at best.
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You’re right, I wonder what guys like Cody Kessler & Austin Davis are doing?
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Deserve is a tough word. I tend to agree he doesn’t deserve top money based on his skill set but the question in the NFL is what’s plan B? QB is the most important and hardest position to procure.
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I’d say Baker is above average when the team around him is playing well
But he is way below average when the team isn’t playing well
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Plan A is paying Baker. We are Looking at around 30M….if we are lucky. And that will result in talent falling off the next couple years. I think you will still have a competitive team…and I think tortured Browns fans are mostly okay with that after dealing with the team and all its failures the past 20 years.
Plan B is kicking the tires on a few of these names that were popping up this offseason (Rodgers/Russ Wilson). This is the three year stop gap tremendous upgrade “all-in” move. In that window you take advantage of some of these Prime years we’ve extended Nick Chubb, Teller, Bitonio, Garrett. You groom the next guy sometime at the end of this window or you rebuild one year. Are we okay with losing some picks?Plan C is doing nothing and keeping Baker. Hopefully he’s fully healthy next year and he either surprises and plays well or he is what he is a 15-20 type QB in the league. If he’s better you pay more- if we determine his play has leveled off…2023 who knows what is out there to replace him.
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He just doesn't. He is fine when the rushing game and D are kicking butt, but, he cannot save the day when they aren't, and a top QB often can. He is an average QB at best.
He just doesn't. He is fine when the rushing game and D are kicking butt, but, he cannot save the day when they aren't, and a top QB often can. He is an average QB at best.
Anyone besides me tired of him in his robe doing insurance commercials ?
As far as Baker Mayfield and his future contract and where, he's already set for life it's just a matter of where he wants to play and for how much.
He is a top half and maybe top one third quarterback for sure and should have not much trouble finding work.
Will it be in Cleveland or elsewhere and for how much ?
The three most secure jobs in sports NFL starting QB, MLB LHP closer, NHL top goalie....... maybe a first round NFL DE also.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
I'm lucky I caught a glimpse of this. If you want my input buddy, just tag me next time.
I'll give the all-22 a going over and get back to you. But the way the Titans and Bolts beat him in the playoffs was to attack the mesh on the option, then play man coverage behind certain 5 man pressures.
Yes…add the Raiders this year. They attacked the mesh point. I remember watching that game thinking okay if the Raiders can do this why can’t we.
Good article here on it too. Raiders went cover 3 with the secondary having eyes in the backfield too
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.silverandblackpride.com/platform/amp/2021/9/17/22678276/raiders-defense-ravens-lamar-jacksonYes…add the Raiders this year. They attacked the mesh point. I remember watching that game thinking okay if the Raiders can do this why can’t we.
Good article here on it too. Raiders went cover 3 with the secondary having eyes in the backfield too
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.silverandblackpride.com/platform/amp/2021/9/17/22678276/raiders-defense-ravens-lamar-jacksonWatching some of the Raiders - Ravens. It's interesting seeing the various looks the Raiders gave in their 4 man fronts on 3rd down. No stunts, absolute lane discipline, fair amount of C3 and a lot of eyes looking back at Lamar.
On their first 3rd down conversion, 3rd and 6, the Raiders rush 3 and drop the 3tech (after a slant over the RG) into a spy right over what would have been the A gap(s).
On 3rd and 13 it's a 5115 look. Edges are parked outside but both IDL are occupying either side of the center, forcing the guards to pinch their inside shoulder. Allows the edges to attack 1 on 1 and most importantly, occupies space on said interior 3 with no where for Lamar to escape straight up. Maxx Crosby does a good job with inside jab, double swipe and then bend around the edge to get Lamar. That initial slow play means that if Jackson felt pressure and tried to escape immediately to that B gap, Crosby might have been able to recover.
Going to watch this further, but it's fun to see what kind of yardage situation certain D-coords are willing to play with when they get the Ravens to 3rd down re: the various fronts they deploy.
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Plan A is paying Baker. We are Looking at around 30M….if we are lucky. And that will result in talent falling off the next couple years. I think you will still have a competitive team…and I think tortured Browns fans are mostly okay with that after dealing with the team and all its failures the past 20 years.
Plan B is kicking the tires on a few of these names that were popping up this offseason (Rodgers/Russ Wilson). This is the three year stop gap tremendous upgrade “all-in” move. In that window you take advantage of some of these Prime years we’ve extended Nick Chubb, Teller, Bitonio, Garrett. You groom the next guy sometime at the end of this window or you rebuild one year. Are we okay with losing some picks?Plan C is doing nothing and keeping Baker. Hopefully he’s fully healthy next year and he either surprises and plays well or he is what he is a 15-20 type QB in the league. If he’s better you pay more- if we determine his play has leveled off…2023 who knows what is out there to replace him.
Plan A is paying Baker. We are Looking at around 30M….if we are lucky. And that will result in talent falling off the next couple years. I think you will still have a competitive team…and I think tortured Browns fans are mostly okay with that after dealing with the team and all its failures the past 20 years.
Plan B is kicking the tires on a few of these names that were popping up this offseason (Rodgers/Russ Wilson). This is the three year stop gap tremendous upgrade “all-in” move. In that window you take advantage of some of these Prime years we’ve extended Nick Chubb, Teller, Bitonio, Garrett. You groom the next guy sometime at the end of this window or you rebuild one year. Are we okay with losing some picks?Plan C is doing nothing and keeping Baker. Hopefully he’s fully healthy next year and he either surprises and plays well or he is what he is a 15-20 type QB in the league. If he’s better you pay more- if we determine his play has leveled off…2023 who knows what is out there to replace him.
I've often wondered that if privately Stefanski and Co. believe his offense is one that can be manned by the "right guy who fits this system"... that it doesn't take a 1st round stud, just the right guy who fits their profile. (Kind of a QB version of how the Shanahans plug and play RBs in their offensive system to great success)
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When I'm looking to
trollcreate a thread, I copy-paste from Graziano's ESPN+ "NFL Reaction Week 10" articles that I don't read!To be clear, "Mayfield isn't Cleveland's long-term answer" is their top headline.. but none of the content is visible before they cut off non-subscribers.
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They have Rex Ryan on Facebook bad mouthing Mayfield.
But then again, I never saw Rex Ryan as a QB guru either.
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