Baker Mayfield
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"Burrow's 11 interceptions now lead the NFL. "
EDIT:
Let's look at Burrow's wide receivers:
Ja'marr Chase, FIRST ROUND, PICK 5
Tee HIggins - SECOND ROUND, Mid Round
Tyler Boyd - SECOND ROUND, late
and still, Burrow ...at least was leading the NFL in interceptions?
and Baker is only "average"
what a bunch of hooey.
The Browns need to upgrade their wide receivers and let Baker get healthy.
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@gorka said:
Warner sounds like a Baker apologist.
I'd like for another HOF QB do the same analysis. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he ripped Warners analysis apart.
Go to 6:10
Warner completely poo poo's the 2 wide open guys at the top of the screen with "yes they're open but"... That had TD written all over it. No defender gonna catch up.
I've seen plenty of games where I've seen Elway leave guys open... so theres that...
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@gorka said:
Warner sounds like a Baker apologist.
I'd like for another HOF QB do the same analysis. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he ripped Warners analysis apart.
Go to 6:10
Warner completely poo poo's the 2 wide open guys at the top of the screen with "yes they're open but"... That had TD written all over it. No defender gonna catch up.
I've seen plenty of games where I've seen Elway leave guys open... so theres that...
I've seen plenty of games where I've seen Elway leave guys open... so theres that...
Oh I'm sure every QB has left guys wide open. But like I said, it wouldn't surprise me if another HOF QB tore Warners analysis to shreds. Thats the nature of this business.
Another head scratcher.
At 7:44.
How does Warner know for sure this play was designed for Chubb to run the flat route? Some plays are designed for the receiver to be at or near the first down marker, and thats exactly where Chubb was heading. I'd bet a thousand bucks that Chubb ran the play the way it was designed.
The most absurd comment by Warner was when he said Baker was jumping up and down because Chubb didn't run the flat route. What??
Baker was jumping up and down in frustration over a near catch that was slightly overthrown, not because Chubb didn't take the flat route. Stupid comment.
Had he caught it, it would have set up 2nd and a couple feet, not 3rd and short as Warner indicated.
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It's possible that both Lamar and Baker are performing like mediocre QB's. This isn't a mutually exclusive deal.
Could be TRUE but I think that Baker Mayfield's performance maybe more physical injuries affecting his performance than some 4th year thing. I think that he's still a good gunslinger QB on the move guy. HOF QB eh probably not unless he can hang around for a long time.
Injuries too to dependable Landy, questionable OBJ and others. It's not all the quarterback good or bad.
On MVP Jackson I think it's just the inevitable decline of a running QB in the NFL. It's rare when they last as long as Vick and others.
I think most fans will agree LJ is a running back that plays quarterback.
Could be TRUE but I think that Baker Mayfield's performance maybe more physical injuries affecting his performance than some 4th year thing. I think that he's still a good gunslinger QB on the move guy. HOF QB eh probably not unless he can hang around for a long time.
Injuries too to dependable Landy, questionable OBJ and others. It's not all the quarterback good or bad.
On MVP Jackson I think it's just the inevitable decline of a running QB in the NFL. It's rare when they last as long as Vick and others.
I think most fans will agree LJ is a running back that plays quarterback.
The only problem is the evidence to the contrary in both cases.
I've highlighted problems with Bakers decision making pre and post injury.
Bakers injured have further limited his mobility and accuracy on the run. There is also some majors misses from him in crucial situations on the move as well.
To further that point, when this office wanted to turn Baker into a "gunslinger", we were treated to the 2019 season with bipolar levels of play and a high turnover ratio.
For all the complaints about Stef and excessive use of 13 personnel, those same people complaining forget that Bakers emergence his rookie year coincided with Freddie cutting down the offense, going TE heavy and Chubb bursting onto the scene.
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Could be TRUE but I think that Baker Mayfield's performance maybe more physical injuries affecting his performance than some 4th year thing. I think that he's still a good gunslinger QB on the move guy. HOF QB eh probably not unless he can hang around for a long time.
Injuries too to dependable Landy, questionable OBJ and others. It's not all the quarterback good or bad.
On MVP Jackson I think it's just the inevitable decline of a running QB in the NFL. It's rare when they last as long as Vick and others.
I think most fans will agree LJ is a running back that plays quarterback.
The only problem is the evidence to the contrary in both cases.
I've highlighted problems with Bakers decision making pre and post injury.
Bakers injured have further limited his mobility and accuracy on the run. There is also some majors misses from him in crucial situations on the move as well.
To further that point, when this office wanted to turn Baker into a "gunslinger", we were treated to the 2019 season with bipolar levels of play and a high turnover ratio.
For all the complaints about Stef and excessive use of 13 personnel, those same people complaining forget that Bakers emergence his rookie year coincided with Freddie cutting down the offense, going TE heavy and Chubb bursting onto the scene.
The only problem is the evidence to the contrary in both cases.
I've highlighted problems with Bakers decision making pre and post injury.
Bakers injured have further limited his mobility and accuracy on the run. There is also some majors misses from him in crucial situations on the move as well.
To further that point, when this office wanted to turn Baker into a "gunslinger", we were treated to the 2019 season with bipolar levels of play and a high turnover ratio.
For all the complaints about Stef and excessive use of 13 personnel, those same people complaining forget that Bakers emergence his rookie year coincided with Freddie cutting down the offense, going TE heavy and Chubb bursting onto the scene.
Yeah, I'm in the 1st row of the upper deck. Great seats to see a play develop. Sometimes I see what you posted above (guys being open, not seeing it).
I love Baker, but I'm worried. His real strength as a QB is the play action & rollout. The injuries have basically forced the coaching staff to eliminate or dramatically reduce those plays. That's why they're struggling to score, sustain drives.
The biggest game of his career was the playoff game in Pittsburgh, until now. The Browns & Baker need to step up vs a vulnerable Ratbird team on Sunday. I'm an optimist, so I think the Browns come out fired up & win it....if they don't, well this forum & sports talk radio is going to get real ugly.
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all quarterbacks make mistakes. Especially when their wr's are not getting open. And, even Tom Brady doesn't see wrs that are open at times. It's a team game. Baker isn't perfect. No nfl qb is perfect. That makes Baker average? yikes !
***************************************
"I Saw Six Times That Mike Evans Was Open" - JoeBucsFan ...
Yes, Brady was quick to look short, despite Washington being down its two best edge rushers and lacking a superstar in their secondary. Joe saw one short throw in the red zone to Giovani Bernard while Mike Evans was wide open in the end zone. Strange day for Brady. Joe doesn't expect to see much more of that. Follow.***************************************
Patrick Mahomes: 'There are plays where guys are open that ...
On first down in the second quarter, Mahomes gives a play-action fake and comes out of it looking for the big play. He attempts a bomb to wide receiver Mecole Hardman, who can't work around the ...https://brobible.com/sports/article/ben-roethlisberger-pittsburgh-steelers-retire/
all quarterbacks make mistakes. Especially when their wr's are not getting open. And, even Tom Brady doesn't see wrs that are open at times. It's a team game. Baker isn't perfect. No nfl qb is perfect. That makes Baker average? yikes !
***************************************
"I Saw Six Times That Mike Evans Was Open" - JoeBucsFan ...
Yes, Brady was quick to look short, despite Washington being down its two best edge rushers and lacking a superstar in their secondary. Joe saw one short throw in the red zone to Giovani Bernard while Mike Evans was wide open in the end zone. Strange day for Brady. Joe doesn't expect to see much more of that. Follow.***************************************
Patrick Mahomes: 'There are plays where guys are open that ...
On first down in the second quarter, Mahomes gives a play-action fake and comes out of it looking for the big play. He attempts a bomb to wide receiver Mecole Hardman, who can't work around the ...https://brobible.com/sports/article/ben-roethlisberger-pittsburgh-steelers-retire/
Cal just please stop your mantra our receivers aren't good enough... They are, but Baker doesn't see them, or notice that they're wide freaking open, and forces the ball into double or triple coverage instead.... At a frequency that's below par for the very top QBs....
Tia is writing a book in this thread on how Baker is having serious problems with post snap adjustments. Oh, and he's missing a ton of throws high and wide? Because he's injured? Then take a seat, and let Keenum play.
Last three games... QBR 79, 53, 56. That sucks, FYI... That level of performance, and extend the guy at $35 million? You have got to be kidding. Make all the excuses for Baker you want to. It seems like Stefanski is going to ride his three legged horse right out of the playoffs.
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all quarterbacks make mistakes. Especially when their wr's are not getting open. And, even Tom Brady doesn't see wrs that are open at times. It's a team game. Baker isn't perfect. No nfl qb is perfect. That makes Baker average? yikes !
***************************************
"I Saw Six Times That Mike Evans Was Open" - JoeBucsFan ...
Yes, Brady was quick to look short, despite Washington being down its two best edge rushers and lacking a superstar in their secondary. Joe saw one short throw in the red zone to Giovani Bernard while Mike Evans was wide open in the end zone. Strange day for Brady. Joe doesn't expect to see much more of that. Follow.***************************************
Patrick Mahomes: 'There are plays where guys are open that ...
On first down in the second quarter, Mahomes gives a play-action fake and comes out of it looking for the big play. He attempts a bomb to wide receiver Mecole Hardman, who can't work around the ...https://brobible.com/sports/article/ben-roethlisberger-pittsburgh-steelers-retire/
Cal just please stop your mantra our receivers aren't good enough... They are, but Baker doesn't see them, or notice that they're wide freaking open, and forces the ball into double or triple coverage instead.... At a frequency that's below par for the very top QBs....
Tia is writing a book in this thread on how Baker is having serious problems with post snap adjustments. Oh, and he's missing a ton of throws high and wide? Because he's injured? Then take a seat, and let Keenum play.
Last three games... QBR 79, 53, 56. That sucks, FYI... That level of performance, and extend the guy at $35 million? You have got to be kidding. Make all the excuses for Baker you want to. It seems like Stefanski is going to ride his three legged horse right out of the playoffs.
Oh, and he's missing a ton of throws high and wide? Because he's injured? Then take a seat, and let Keenum play.
There, that part I like and agree with. And no, I won't stop with talking about the wr's.
The Browns most certainly know that Keenum will have the same problems that Baker has.
drops. Wide receivers that don't get open often. I think they have given up on HIggins. When he does see Njoku wide open in the end zone....Njoku drops the throw because he held it out there for the defender to slap the ball out of his hands.
I saw barfsonhislooger not see his wr/te all alone in the end zone. Do you want to say he is "average" ???
Peyton Manning threw 4 ints in a playoff game. Did he become "average" ??? NO. his receivers were outmatched, couldn't get open at that level of defensive competition.
I already posted where Tom Brady threw an incredibly dumb int just a few? games ago.
Did he all of a sudden become "average" ? NO.
Landry is fine. He gets two defenders a lot.
and Hoorta, it isn't just me saying it. BTW, I fully expect Jamarcus Bradley to see some serious playing time. Like Landry, he has some speed to get open, catches the ball like crazy. It doesn't do much good for Higgins and a couple of other wr's on the Browns to get open after the pocket starts to close. Bradley can get open quick, as can Landry.
*******************************************************
Browns Poor Return on Investment at Wide Receiver ...
After an extremely poor performance by Cleveland Browns wide receivers against the Pittsburgh Steelers, it puts the focus on how poor the return on investment the Browns have gotten from their top ...Cleveland Browns Bye Week: Looking at 2022 First Round ...
If this season has taught the 6-6 Cleveland Browns anything, it's that the team desperately needs help at wide receiver. The team's leading wide receiver has 356 yards and that is Jarvis Landry.The Future of the Browns' Wide Receiver Corps - Mesh Point ...
Thanks to the Browns' 41-16 victory, their season is back on track, and while there's work to do, the playoffs are still very much in play. But no matter how the rest of the season goes, the Browns' wide receiver corps is going to need some serious remodeling. -
btw:
OBR Analytics: Offseason Targets at Wide Receiver
As a unit, the Browns wide receiver corps has accounted for only 53 percent of the team's targets and rank in the bottom of many statistical categories, including positive play percentage (49.4 ... -
You'll probably see me use the phrase "bad math" quiet a bit. Because it's possible to arrive at the right answer, but your work be incorrect. Incorrect work, in the long run, leads to REALLY wrong answers. If you're just barely getting by with the subject you have now, then you aren't ready for more advanced work. Baker and his play is sort of that mantra for me right now.
The cincy game was the week after OBJ was launched out of CLE. A game where a large part of the Browns base felt things would just come together and the offense would hum like it did for the better part of the 2nd half of the season last year. That cincy game ended up being fool's gold (a bit part of the reason I didn't chime in after the win, was busying watching what I saw and trying to make sense of it) This play sort of encapsulates almost every other play I've broken down that involves our QB being the primary cause of that singular mis-fire in the moment. Only difference is... it was a completed pass. It was a right answer to a question, but with bad work that lead to the answer. Allow me to explain.
What you love to see from the Browns... more empty sets.
At the field (top) you have a bunch trio. At the bottom you have a z on a narrow split from the Y. That's Felton at the Z, FYI.
Generally when facing trips bunch like that, at the top you'll get man coverage on the point man (lead in the bunch) and the DB's will play a switch of some kind. Some call it banjo, some call it shadow, we called it sin. (switch if needed) Pattern matching coverage that usually involves 1st out, 1st in, 2nd out, 2nd in so on and so forth.
This motion which puts the duo in a stack with Felton just behind Hoop. A couple adjustments can come from this look, one being a sight adjust to a little smoke with a TE as your lead. Provided the 2nd defender is well off the ball. You see the linebacker put his hand out and tag his DB in man coverage on Hoop. So there will be no pass off, man coverage.
Baker likely knows he has man. But this is where I mentioned he gets in trouble because his homework isn't done here. You've got a man match at the top, man at the bottom, but you have a low hole defender sitting right across from you who is going to be your +1 you have to account for.
This is called a return route. Return because it breaks out then back in to positive field... aka, returning inside.
Pivot would be if this was leveraged inside then quickly back out to draw away underneath coverage to the sidelines. Slot pivot was/is a VERY popular concept anyone in Ohio should be familiar with. It was a staple urban meyer brought with him to tOSU. Anywho... it's simple enough.
Hoop on the man coverage is going to run the point man (DB) upfield. Felton is going to eat cushion, break out sharp underneath Hoop and force that linebacker to commit outside. Then he's going to plant that foot, flip his hips and to flat back inside. Very straight forward man coverage beater which Baker reads right with this 2 on 2... to an extent.
Go back and double check where I mentioned Baker failed to correctly read that double seam against the Pats and his Eyes drew the single high safety to the side of the field he wanted. He never looked anywhere else and when he did finally check for the safety, the ball would have been late and the simulated pressure NE dialed up started to make him shuffle his feet. Point being, Bakers eyes are drawing the +1 zone defender, the low backer who is looking for anything that might cross his face or snap shallow to the short side (preferably)
You have to account for this man because this is how you get a throw robbed.
Below you'll see what Felton excels at and the situational matchups you can get with him when you face teams that like to play man coverage or where you can force man coverage. It was a great route, the linebacker was forced to overcommit and Felton has won back inside. With one tiny problem... Baker never looked for the low hole defender. Because you don't have to go back far to see me mention he loves throwing his receivers into problems... into traffic. This is just another throw in a long line of that mentality. One that won't make him many friends with his pass catchers.
The ball arrived and it was on by inches at best. No, this wasn't some big time gunslinger throw. So I'm going to get ahead your first thought on that one... you're wrong. This was good fortune at best and below average linebacker play. I believe that's Logan Wilson? Pretty decent player. If he didn't shuffle so much laterally and peaked back to his right shoulder at a route that never came his way, then it's bad news. If this is Luke Keuchly it's picked AND going the other way. Devin White, Roquan Smith, Fred Warning, Bobby Wagner, etc etc. Good linebackers get hands on this ball.
Funny thing is, the LB had the bead on this throw the whole way. He just biffed it completely, it's one of those you hate yourself for because you SEE it coming and just freeze.
For how well this game turned out I'm noticing a few things.
- Positive game script. Running game was working, pass pro wasn't anywhere near an issue because of it.
- Coaches tossed up a few soft balls and Baker cranked them out
- The looks Baker did have explosive gains on (15+ yards) were either heavy play action or your more "vanilla" man coverage looks, a couple of them like the cover 1 you see in the pictures I posted above.
The bland stuff isn't an issue for Mayfield, especially when Chubb and Hunt get going. Really isn't an issue for most any starting NFL QB, even the average to below average ones. But where Baker falls apart is when he goes from "too easy" to "guessing" - which is really him having to think. The midfield "squat" in the 1/3 zones by the CB's from HOU and NE are actually some great examples I gave. Mayfield still elects to use short sides of the field where he only believes there will be less traffic. But as we've seen starting the 2nd half of the year, that isn't always the case.
I would think that if Baker takes a few of those cheap yardage throws decisively and not as a foundational play (again, such as against NE and HOU) that it would go a long way to helping decipher these coverages as best as possible. More importantly, taking your safer, smarter throws will possibly force more clear definitions of how a defense should declare themselves instead of throwing these more "muddled" zone depths at him. An educated guess I have, I suppose. But it's the perimeter throws that have clearly made Baker noticeably uncomfortable for some time now.
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Zombo said:
This is the bitchiest thread ever.
Browns win again.
18-11 since last year.
Fags.
Z
You have now joined the Baked Mayfield\ Brady Quinn homo club....
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You may as well include me then
Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB. Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.
You miss the happy feet when his primary wasn't open today? Sort of what tia has been preaching for weeks? I haven't.... Yeah run the table and = playoffs. Go for it Baker.. I'm pulling for you.
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You may as well include me then
Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB. Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.
You miss the happy feet when his primary wasn't open today? Sort of what tia has been preaching for weeks? I haven't.... Yeah run the table and = playoffs. Go for it Baker.. I'm pulling for you.
Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB. Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.
You miss the happy feet when his primary wasn't open today? Sort of what tia has been preaching for weeks? I haven't.... Yeah run the table and = playoffs. Go for it Baker.. I'm pulling for you.
My biggest disappointment is KS taking the foot off the gas in the 2nd half.. Was Baker perfect?.. No... But he made the plays he needed to make to help win the game... The Defense is finally getting turnovers and scoring points...
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Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB. Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.
You miss the happy feet when his primary wasn't open today? Sort of what tia has been preaching for weeks? I haven't.... Yeah run the table and = playoffs. Go for it Baker.. I'm pulling for you.
My biggest disappointment is KS taking the foot off the gas in the 2nd half.. Was Baker perfect?.. No... But he made the plays he needed to make to help win the game... The Defense is finally getting turnovers and scoring points...
My biggest disappointment is KS taking the foot off the gas in the 2nd half.. Was Baker perfect?.. No... But he made the plays he needed to make to help win the game... The Defense is finally getting turnovers and scoring points...
Ya no shit.
Baker was 15-17 with two TD's ending the 2nd quarter (with Hooper dropping the ball again...) And Kev comes out with some FB passes and 2 yard runs all half. WTF.
We finally start forcing the ball down field and we either get big gains or we get the same PI calls other teams get in one on one coverage. Kev sees that and goes back to his bleed the clock game.
Same shit he pulled in the Chargers game
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I can’t believe people are still bitching after a “W”.
Maybe they have amnesia after two seasons with a record of 1-31?
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
The Browns went 1-31 in 2016 and 2017 because that's exactly what they were trying to do.
It was a complete tank job.
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I can’t believe people are still bitching after a “W”.
Maybe they have amnesia after two seasons with a record of 1-31?
I can’t believe people are still bitching after a “W”.
The line was 2.5, I could see a little bitching.
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You may as well include me then
Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB. Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.
You miss the happy feet when his primary wasn't open today? Sort of what tia has been preaching for weeks? I haven't.... Yeah run the table and = playoffs. Go for it Baker.. I'm pulling for you.
Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB. Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.
'Are you EVER happy? dammmmm. Poor decimated ratbirds, eh? how about our punter was out, ml was out, both te's were in - Njoku and Harrison, Hunt went out during the game, our starting RT was out, our 1st round draft pick star, Newsome, was out...Schwartz still out...
you always? sound like a ratbird fan for some weird reason. Has their qb's been playing with multiple injuries? NO. btw, their backup qb played better than Jackson did.
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Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB. Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.
'Are you EVER happy? dammmmm. Poor decimated ratbirds, eh? how about our punter was out, ml was out, both te's were in - Njoku and Harrison, Hunt went out during the game, our starting RT was out, our 1st round draft pick star, Newsome, was out...Schwartz still out...
you always? sound like a ratbird fan for some weird reason. Has their qb's been playing with multiple injuries? NO. btw, their backup qb played better than Jackson did.
'Are you EVER happy? dammmmm. Poor decimated ratbirds, eh? how about our punter was out, ml was out, both te's were in - Njoku and Harrison, Hunt went out during the game, our starting RT was out, our 1st round draft pick star, Newsome, was out...Schwartz still out...
you always? sound like a ratbird fan for some weird reason. Has their qb's been playing with multiple injuries? NO. btw, their backup qb played better than Jackson did.
Lamar Jackass will be a has been in 2 years.. book it...
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