Baker Mayfield

[calfoxwc]

@hoorta said:

Oh, and he's missing a ton of throws high and wide? Because he's injured? Then take a seat, and let Keenum play.  

There, that part I like and agree with. And no, I won't stop with talking about the wr's.

The Browns most certainly know that Keenum will have the same problems that Baker has.

drops. Wide receivers that don't get open often. I think they have given up on HIggins. When he does see Njoku wide open in the end zone....Njoku drops the throw because he held it out there for the defender to slap the ball out of his hands.

   I saw barfsonhislooger not see his wr/te all alone in the end zone. Do you want to say he is "average" ???

Peyton Manning threw 4 ints in a playoff game. Did he become "average" ??? NO. his receivers were outmatched, couldn't get open at that level of defensive competition.

I already posted where Tom Brady threw an incredibly dumb int just a few? games ago.

Did he all of a sudden become "average" ? NO.

Landry is fine. He gets two defenders a lot.

and Hoorta, it isn't just me saying it. BTW, I fully expect Jamarcus Bradley to see some serious playing time. Like Landry, he has some speed to get open, catches the ball like crazy. It doesn't do much good for Higgins and a couple of other wr's on the Browns to get open after the pocket starts to close. Bradley can get open quick, as can Landry.

*******************************************************

Browns Poor Return on Investment at Wide Receiver ...

https://www.msn.com › en-us › sports › nfl › browns-poor-return-on-investment-at-wide-receiver-impossible-to-ignore-after-loss-to-steelers › ar-AAQav7y

After an extremely poor performance by Cleveland Browns wide receivers against the Pittsburgh Steelers, it puts the focus on how poor the return on investment the Browns have gotten from their top ...

Cleveland Browns Bye Week: Looking at 2022 First Round ...

https://www.yardbarker.com › nfl › articles › cleveland_browns_bye_week_looking_at_2022_first_round_wide_receivers › s1_16697_36587735

If this season has taught the 6-6 Cleveland Browns anything, it's that the team desperately needs help at wide receiver. The team's leading wide receiver has 356 yards and that is Jarvis Landry.

The Future of the Browns' Wide Receiver Corps - Mesh Point ...

https://meshpointscouting.com › cleveland-browns › cleveland-browns-future-wide-receiver-corps

Thanks to the Browns' 41-16 victory, their season is back on track, and while there's work to do, the playoffs are still very much in play. But no matter how the rest of the season goes, the Browns' wide receiver corps is going to need some serious remodeling.

[calfoxwc]

btw:

OBR Analytics: Offseason Targets at Wide Receiver

https://247sports.com › nfl › cleveland-browns › LongFormArticle › Cleveland-Browns-Wide-Receiver-Targets-Free-Agency-Draft-177488168

As a unit, the Browns wide receiver corps has accounted for only 53 percent of the team's targets and rank in the bottom of many statistical categories, including positive play percentage (49.4 ...

[tiamat63]

You'll probably see me use the phrase "bad math" quiet a bit.  Because it's possible to arrive at the right answer, but your work be incorrect.     Incorrect work, in the long run, leads to REALLY wrong answers.  If you're just barely getting by with the subject you have now, then you aren't ready for more advanced work.     Baker and his play is sort of that mantra for me right now.   

The cincy game was the week after OBJ was launched out of CLE.  A game where a large part of the Browns base felt things would just come together and the offense would hum like it did for the better part of the 2nd half of the season last year.   That cincy game ended up being fool's gold (a bit part of the reason I didn't chime in after the win, was busying watching what I saw and trying to make sense of it)   This play sort of encapsulates almost every other play I've broken down that involves our QB being the primary cause of that singular mis-fire in the moment.   Only difference is... it was a completed pass.       It was a right answer to a question, but with bad work that lead to the answer.   Allow me to explain.

What you love to see from the Browns... more empty sets.

At the field (top) you have a bunch trio.   At the bottom you have a z on a narrow split from the Y.    That's Felton at the Z, FYI.

Generally when facing trips bunch like that, at the top you'll get man coverage on the point man (lead in the bunch) and the DB's will play a switch of some kind.  Some call it banjo, some call it shadow, we called it sin. (switch if needed)  Pattern matching coverage that usually involves 1st out, 1st in, 2nd out, 2nd in so on and so forth.

This motion which puts the duo in a stack with Felton just behind Hoop.   A couple adjustments can come from this look, one being a sight adjust to a little smoke with a TE as your lead.  Provided the 2nd defender is well off the ball.      You see the linebacker put his hand out and tag his DB in man coverage on Hoop.   So there will be no pass off, man coverage. 

Baker likely knows he has man.  But this is where I mentioned he gets in trouble because his homework isn't done here.  You've got a man match at the top, man at the bottom, but you have a low hole defender sitting right across from you who is going to be your +1 you have to account for.  

This is called a return route.  Return because it breaks out then back in to positive field... aka, returning inside.

Pivot would be if this was leveraged inside then quickly back out to draw away underneath coverage to the sidelines.  Slot pivot was/is a VERY popular concept anyone in Ohio should be familiar with.  It was a staple urban meyer brought with him to tOSU.  Anywho...  it's simple enough.  

Hoop on the man coverage is going to run the point man (DB) upfield.    Felton is going to eat cushion, break out sharp underneath Hoop and force that linebacker to commit outside.  Then he's going to plant that foot, flip his hips and to flat back inside.     Very straight forward man coverage beater which Baker reads right with this 2 on 2...  to an extent.

Go back and double check where I mentioned Baker failed to correctly read that double seam against the Pats and his Eyes drew the single high safety to the side of the field he wanted.   He never looked anywhere else and when he did finally check for the safety, the ball would have been late and the simulated pressure NE dialed up started to make him shuffle his feet.   Point being, Bakers eyes are drawing the +1 zone defender, the low backer who is looking for anything that might cross his face or snap shallow to the short side (preferably)  

You have to account for this man because this is how you get a throw robbed.

Below you'll see what Felton excels at and the situational matchups you can get with him when you face teams that like to play man coverage or where you can force man coverage.      It was a great route, the linebacker was forced to overcommit and Felton has won back inside.  With one tiny problem... Baker never looked for the low hole defender.    Because you don't have to go back far to see me mention he loves throwing his receivers into problems... into traffic.  This is just another throw in a long line of that mentality.   One that won't make him many friends with his pass catchers.

The ball arrived and it was on by inches at best.   No, this wasn't some big time gunslinger throw.  So I'm going to get ahead your first thought on that one... you're wrong. This was good fortune at best and below average linebacker play.  I believe that's Logan Wilson? Pretty decent player.  If he didn't shuffle so much laterally and peaked back to his right shoulder at a route that never came his way, then it's bad news.   If this is Luke Keuchly it's picked AND going the other way.   Devin White, Roquan Smith, Fred Warning, Bobby Wagner, etc etc.  Good linebackers get hands on this ball.

Funny thing is, the LB had the bead on this throw the whole way.  He just biffed it completely, it's one of those you hate yourself for because you SEE it coming and just freeze.

For how well this game turned out I'm noticing a few things.

- Positive game script.  Running game was working, pass pro wasn't anywhere near an issue because of it.

- Coaches tossed up a few soft balls and Baker cranked them out

- The looks Baker did have explosive gains on (15+ yards) were either heavy play action or your more "vanilla" man coverage looks, a couple of them like the cover 1 you see in the pictures I posted above.

The bland stuff isn't an issue for Mayfield, especially when Chubb and Hunt get going.  Really isn't an issue for most any starting NFL QB, even the average to below average ones.   But where Baker falls apart is when he goes from "too easy" to "guessing" - which is really him having to think.   The midfield "squat" in the 1/3 zones by the CB's from HOU and NE are actually some great examples I gave.   Mayfield still elects to use short sides of the field where he only believes there will be less traffic.   But as we've seen starting the 2nd half of the year, that isn't always the case.

I would think that if Baker takes a few of those cheap yardage throws decisively and not as a foundational play (again, such as against NE and HOU) that it would go a long way to helping decipher these coverages as best as possible.   More importantly, taking your safer, smarter throws will possibly force more clear definitions of how a defense should declare themselves instead of throwing these more "muddled" zone depths at him.    An educated guess I have, I suppose.    But it's the perimeter throws that have clearly made Baker noticeably uncomfortable for some time now.

[hoorta]

Zombo said:

This is the bitchiest thread ever.

Browns win again.

18-11 since last year.

Fags.

Z

You have now joined the Baked Mayfield\ Brady Quinn homo club....  

[nickers]

@hoorta said:

You have now joined the Baked Mayfield\ Brady Quinn homo club....  

You may as well include me then

[hoorta]

@nickers said:

You may as well include me then

Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB.   Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.  

You miss the happy feet when his primary wasn't open today? Sort of what tia has been preaching for weeks?   I haven't....  Yeah run the table and = playoffs. Go for it Baker.. I'm pulling for you.  

[nickers]

@hoorta said:

Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB.   Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.  

You miss the happy feet when his primary wasn't open today? Sort of what tia has been preaching for weeks?   I haven't....  Yeah run the table and = playoffs. Go for it Baker.. I'm pulling for you.  

My biggest disappointment is KS taking the foot off the gas in the 2nd half.. Was Baker perfect?.. No... But he made the plays he needed to make to help win the game... The Defense is finally getting turnovers and scoring points...

[hx214]

@nickers said:

My biggest disappointment is KS taking the foot off the gas in the 2nd half.. Was Baker perfect?.. No... But he made the plays he needed to make to help win the game... The Defense is finally getting turnovers and scoring points...

Ya no shit. 

Baker was 15-17 with two TD's ending the 2nd quarter (with Hooper dropping the ball again...)  And Kev comes out with some FB passes and 2 yard runs all half. WTF.

We finally start forcing the ball down field and we either get big gains or we get the same PI calls other teams get in one on one coverage. Kev sees that and goes back to his bleed the clock game. 

Same shit he pulled in the Chargers game

[Canton Dawg]

I can’t believe people are still bitching after a “W”.

Maybe they have amnesia after two seasons with a record of 1-31?

[Dutch Oven]

The Browns went 1-31 in 2016 and 2017 because that's exactly what they were trying to do. 

It was a complete tank job.

[Kegeratorz]

@canton-dawg said:

I can’t believe people are still bitching after a “W”.

The line was 2.5, I could see a little bitching.

[calfoxwc]

@hoorta said:

Look... I'm glad the Browns won. Pleasantly unexpected. But, I don't have rose colored glasses on and calls them as I see them. We barely beat a decimated Ratbird team minus their starting QB.   Baker has been playing like outright crap, and\or sub-star QB output since the Bungles game.   

'Are you EVER happy? dammmmm. Poor decimated ratbirds, eh? how about our punter was out, ml was out, both te's were in - Njoku and Harrison, Hunt went out during the game, our starting RT was out, our 1st round draft pick star, Newsome, was out...Schwartz still out...

   you always? sound like a ratbird fan for some weird reason. Has their qb's been playing with multiple injuries? NO. btw, their backup qb played better than Jackson did.

[nickers]

@calfoxwc said:

'Are you EVER happy? dammmmm. Poor decimated ratbirds, eh? how about our punter was out, ml was out, both te's were in - Njoku and Harrison, Hunt went out during the game, our starting RT was out, our 1st round draft pick star, Newsome, was out...Schwartz still out...

   you always? sound like a ratbird fan for some weird reason. Has their qb's been playing with multiple injuries? NO. btw, their backup qb played better than Jackson did.

Lamar Jackass will be a has been in 2 years.. book it...

[hoorta]

Zombo said:

Never liked Quinn. He never produced, he never won.

Now I'm some kind of homo for supporting our QB through an injury-plagued season where we are trying to get back the playoffs for consecutive season for the first time since 19fucking89.

Ok, I admit it, I root for the Browns and I root for Mayfield.

I am a homo.

At least I'm not a bitterbeerfaced fan, miserable after wins .... That has to really suck.

Z

Don't make excuses for the crip. He either can play, or he can't. The opposition doesn't give a rat's ass if your injured- or not. And go find anything I ever posted that I was upset that we beat the Ravens.  Sorry Z- the bar has been raised. From going 0-16 hoping we can win a game to 7-6 mediocrity, and now you sunshine pumpers are creaming your pants over it. Strange things happen on the way to the Super Bowl.  We're not the only team with below preseason expectations...  I give you the Bills, who are now looking like counterfeit bills too.  

@calfoxwc said:

'Are you EVER happy? dammmmm. Poor decimated ratbirds, eh? how about our punter was out, ml was out, both te's were in - Njoku and Harrison, Hunt went out during the game, our starting RT was out, our 1st round draft pick star, Newsome, was out...Schwartz still out...

   you always? sound like a ratbird fan for some weird reason. Has their qb's been playing with multiple injuries? NO. btw, their backup qb played better than Jackson did.

How about you STFU?  Keep making excuses....  As I said above.  Well- not outside of the realm of possibility the Browns, despite Baker flat out sucking in three of the last four games, Browns beat Raiders, and Ratbirds lose to Green Bay, we pull into a dead heat in the division.  

I call shitty performance as I see it Cal, and I don't pull out the injury excuse either. From way back, the Ravens have been FAR more beat up than the Browns... Minus their two starting running backs. Or you want to posit where the Browns would be minus Chubb and Hunt for the whole damn year?  Didn't think so.   

[gumby73]

@hoorta said:

Don't make excuses for the crip. He either can play, or he can't. The opposition doesn't give a rat's ass if your injured- or not.

 the bar has been raised. From going 0-16 hoping we can win a game to 7-6 mediocrity, and now you sunshine pumpers are creaming your pants over it.    

No excuses H..

berry's not using excuses either

Mayfield said his left heel bothered him during a game for the first time on Nov. 7 in a Week 9 blowout win over the Bengals. He suffered a right knee contusion on Nov. 14 in a Week 10 blowout loss to the New Patriots and sat out the fourth quarter. Then he suffered a groin injury on Nov. 21 in a close Week 11 win over the Detroit Lions.

Mayfield has limped in recent games, and his accuracy issues seemed to reach a new low against the Lions. He skipped his postgame news conference after the 13-10 victory and later blamed frustration with his individual performance.

Yet the Browns stuck with Mayfield, 26, in Baltimore.

"For any player in terms of whether they’re on the field or not, it’s really three separate things," Berry said.

"No. 1, are they medically cleared from the perspective that they can’t do anything harmful to their health, or significantly harmful to their health?

"No. 2, are they medically cleared in a manner that would allow them to function in their role on the field, or play at a winning level in their role on the field?

"No. 3, does the player both by feel and then honestly by evidence throughout the practice week, can he perform all the requirements of his role on game day? And so we’ll never put a player on the field that doesn’t pass those three criteria. (practice's are coded Full* weekly since Denver)

"Our expectation is when guys are on the field, and our players’ expectation of themselves when they’re on the field if they’re there, they’re going to perform at a high level."

In other words, Berry isn't giving Mayfield a pass this season because he's been playing hurt.

may open/may not.... 

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/sports/pro/browns/2021/12/01/cleveland-browns-news-gm-andrew-berry-expects-baker-mayfield-play-best-ball-down-stretch-bye-week/8815593002/

still a good read on Berry... https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/9/8/22662051/nfl-front-office-phenom-andrew-berry-browns

Howie Roseman tasked Berry with a wide array of responsibilities:

player development, coordinating with the medical and performance staff, helping with the cap and contracts, and talking about big-picture issues.

Colts former GM Bill Polian, tasked Berry with 3 empty pages on how to preserve players to get to end of seasons.. Berry returned Polian a 18 page covered book on his how too's...

Coach Kevin Stefanski controls the game day rosters? yea/nay?

[calfoxwc]

@hoorta said:

How about you STFU?  Keep making excuses....  As I said above.  Well- not outside of the realm of possibility the Browns, despite Baker flat out sucking in three of the last four games, Browns beat Raiders, and Ratbirds lose to Green Bay, we pull into a dead heat in the division.  

I call shitty performance as I see it Cal, and I don't pull out the injury excuse either. From way back, the Ravens have been FAR more beat up than the Browns... Minus their two starting running backs. Or you want to posit where the Browns would be minus Chubb and Hunt for the whole damn year?  Didn't think so.   

Hoorta translation: "I can't handle the truth, so I will make excuses for the ratbirds, but bitch about the Browns". lol

Both of their running backs? who cares? lol. Their rushing leader by far is Lamar Jackson. Who do you think you are fooling?

Yes, you use the injury excuses for your ratbirds, but not the Browns, Mr. pouty. You are inferring their rb's are equal in any way to Chubb and Hunt? Gosh, maybe you should give yourself a time out. Devonta Freeman, starting rb, was a 4th round pick. Latavius Murray, 2nd rb, was a sixth round pick. Like I SAID - their top rusher is Jackson ANYWAYS. It's how their offense WORKS.

Maybe, you should have THINKSIES before you have speaksies, Hoorta. LOL

 It was a performance that was terrific the first half. Second half, beats me why they end up playing two different halves in the same game. I guess it's ...not making adjustments? or out-coaching themselves?

[hoorta]

Zombo said:

I didn't make one excuse for him.

I'm just enjoying the ride, we just won a big game and we control our own destiny

Now they are throwing the Covid Albatross around our necks this week ... and I know this team will battle, and I'll root for them all the more!

Z

What? You somehow think that I won't?  There's a difference between blind fandom and having an accurate assessment of our team's strength relative to the rest of the NFL.  

I don't wear rose colored homer glasses like you do. Ahem-  the latest power rankings er, "Beauty Pageant Standings" Have the Browns at #15.. About right where they belong in my estimation. Can they still win the Division? Sure... But not if they can't figure out a way to score some points in the second half of games.... 

[hx214]

Looks like the Raiders will really be looking to move on from Carr after the season.... 

Wonder if the Browns would swap QB's...

[hoorta]

Zombo said:

I don't know how accurate you are. You were wrong about the Bengals and the Ravens. I on the other hand maintain that we are the cream of the division and cream rises to the top ... we'll see.

You shit on our qb, you shit on our coach. They are the best combo, by far,  that we have had since I've known you, so I guess you're just never happy until Otto Graham and Paul Brown walk through the door again.

You've been outright bitter after our last two WINS ... Not wearing rose colored (I prefer orange) glasses is one thing, but being a full time dick is another.

It can't be enjoyable. I'm sure you "root" for the Browns in your own way, but I imagine that is a miserable experience as well. 

You need to get a cat to kick around when we win but don't get any beauty pageant points.

Z

Just get real Z... You mean I'm not allowed to say a 50 something QBR by our QB isn't crap?  Seven points in the last eight 4th quarters isn't crap? We won- great. I'll crow how great we are right along with you if we manage to beat the Raiders with 1\2 the team out.  

And Cal can blow me if he thinks the Ravens losing both Dobbins and Marlon Humphrey isn't a big deal.  

[calfoxwc]

@hoorta said:

Just get real Z... You mean I'm not allowed to say a 50 something QBR by our QB isn't crap?  Seven points in the last eight 4th quarters isn't crap? We won- great. I'll crow how great we are right along with you if we manage to beat the Raiders with 1\2 the team out.  

And Cal can blow me if he thinks the Ravens losing both Dobbins and Marlon Humphrey isn't a big deal.  

or you can blow yourself - your superego needs inflatsies AGAIN? It isn't much of a deal.....?

for this season, Freeman, in 12 games, only started six games. Only got 440 yards. Murray, only 4 starts out of 10 played in, only got 260 yards. And Jackson, 12 games, etc, 767 yards. Get this - D'Ernest Johnson has 342 yards rushing - a lot more than Murray, second string.

And Dobbins - had surgery back in Sept. Make all the excuses for your ratbirds, but you seem to be in the wrong forum.

BTW, last year, Lamar Jackson still had 200 more yards rushing than Dobbins did.

 

1	L. Murray RB	10	4	80	8.0	260	3.3	26.0	5	14	0	0	0
2	D. Freeman RB	12	6	102	8.5	440	4.3	36.7	4	31	0	0	0
	L. Jackson QB	12	12	133	11.1	767	5.8	63.9