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Cedric Tillman

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  • @calfoxwc said:

    Jerry Rice recalls

    I recall, upon our return and drafting of Couch & Kevin Johnson, Jerry Rice asked KJ to come out and work out with him.  And KJ said that he didn't need Rice's assistance.  And I thought to myself, Really?  There's nothing you could learn from one of the best WR's ever?  -  Some years later he caught a 1st down pass...and then rolled backwards several yards so he wouldn't get hit...but the idiot had given back the 1st down and we had to punt.  Butch Davis benched him for the rest of the game and then traded him.

    @orion said:

    I recall, upon our return and drafting of Couch & Kevin Johnson, Jerry Rice asked KJ to come out and work out with him.  And KJ said that he didn't need Rice's assistance.  And I thought to myself, Really?  There's nothing you could learn from one of the best WR's ever?  -  Some years later he caught a 1st down pass...and then rolled backwards several yards so he wouldn't get hit...but the idiot had given back the 1st down and we had to punt.  Butch Davis benched him for the rest of the game and then traded him.

    Funny, what I remember of Kevin Johnson was Tim Couch constantly throwing behind him on slants, to the point I jokingly would call it our:

    3rd and 7 Slant Thrown Behind Kevin Johnson by Tim Couch Reception For Four Yards Play. ?

    Edit: Wow, you really jogged my memory. I had forgotten about Davis cutting KJ, but I remember going to the next game and fans were all over Butch Davis, but somehow the Browns pulled an ass-kicking of the Cardinals out of their ass. Annihilated them, then if I recall (I'm going to have to look this up) they might have lost the rest of their games and Davis would literally quit his job during the season and walk away. Was there some other weird rumors around why KJ got released? My memory is really foggy, but for some reason a story about KJ sleeping with WIlliam Green's wife/girlfriend and someone getting stabbed seems like it happened? Wow, this feels like it happend a lifetime ago. 

  • @orion said:

    I recall, upon our return and drafting of Couch & Kevin Johnson, Jerry Rice asked KJ to come out and work out with him.  And KJ said that he didn't need Rice's assistance.  And I thought to myself, Really?  There's nothing you could learn from one of the best WR's ever?  -  Some years later he caught a 1st down pass...and then rolled backwards several yards so he wouldn't get hit...but the idiot had given back the 1st down and we had to punt.  Butch Davis benched him for the rest of the game and then traded him.

    Funny, what I remember of Kevin Johnson was Tim Couch constantly throwing behind him on slants, to the point I jokingly would call it our:

    3rd and 7 Slant Thrown Behind Kevin Johnson by Tim Couch Reception For Four Yards Play. ?

    Edit: Wow, you really jogged my memory. I had forgotten about Davis cutting KJ, but I remember going to the next game and fans were all over Butch Davis, but somehow the Browns pulled an ass-kicking of the Cardinals out of their ass. Annihilated them, then if I recall (I'm going to have to look this up) they might have lost the rest of their games and Davis would literally quit his job during the season and walk away. Was there some other weird rumors around why KJ got released? My memory is really foggy, but for some reason a story about KJ sleeping with WIlliam Green's wife/girlfriend and someone getting stabbed seems like it happened? Wow, this feels like it happend a lifetime ago. 

    @dutch-oven said:

    Funny, what I remember of Kevin Johnson was

    Do you remember the play that I referenced?  I remember it very well.  I was like, WTF did that pussy just do?!

  • @dutch-oven said:

    Funny, what I remember of Kevin Johnson was

    Do you remember the play that I referenced?  I remember it very well.  I was like, WTF did that pussy just do?!

    @orion said:

    Do you remember the play that I referenced?  I remember it very well.  I was like, WTF did that pussy just do?!

    I kind of do? 

    The Butch Davis era feels like it was 100 years ago. 

  • Legacy?  Is Lawyer his dad?

  • Legacy?  Is Lawyer his dad?

    @kvoethe said:

    Legacy?  Is Lawyer his dad?

    No I think Lawyer has a Jr. for a Son I thought I read somewhere recently...

  • Legacy?  Is Lawyer his dad?

    @kvoethe said:

    Legacy?  Is Lawyer his dad?

    I checked for that on draft day.  His dad is Cedric.  

    “Honestly since he was like nine," Tillman Sr. said with a laugh. "You know he said, 'Dad I’m going to go to the NFL. I’m going to have a big house with a pool and a slide in it.' So I’m like, 'Whoa, okay, interesting.'”

    Tillman’s dad knows a thing or two about the NFL. He played four seasons in the league also as a wide receiver. As his son grew bigger and bigger, Tillman Sr. knew his son had the ability.

  • @kvoethe said:

    Legacy?  Is Lawyer his dad?

    I checked for that on draft day.  His dad is Cedric.  

    “Honestly since he was like nine," Tillman Sr. said with a laugh. "You know he said, 'Dad I’m going to go to the NFL. I’m going to have a big house with a pool and a slide in it.' So I’m like, 'Whoa, okay, interesting.'”

    Tillman’s dad knows a thing or two about the NFL. He played four seasons in the league also as a wide receiver. As his son grew bigger and bigger, Tillman Sr. knew his son had the ability.

    @orion said:

    I checked for that on draft day.  His dad is Cedric.  

    “Honestly since he was like nine," Tillman Sr. said with a laugh. "You know he said, 'Dad I’m going to go to the NFL. I’m going to have a big house with a pool and a slide in it.' So I’m like, 'Whoa, okay, interesting.'”

    Tillman’s dad knows a thing or two about the NFL. He played four seasons in the league also as a wide receiver. As his son grew bigger and bigger, Tillman Sr. knew his son had the ability.

    While Jalin Hyatt got all the hype - I think Tillman is going to be a better pro.  Try to picture a Josh Gordon that likes football more than marijuana; and that's how I see Cedric Tillman.  We got a tall WR that actually likes football and he's good at it too!  

    I may be old. I may be tired. But that doesn't mean I'm uninspired.   

  • PFF draft analysis today included their comment that Tillman's ability to decelerate is elite

  • @orion said:

    I checked for that on draft day.  His dad is Cedric.  

    “Honestly since he was like nine," Tillman Sr. said with a laugh. "You know he said, 'Dad I’m going to go to the NFL. I’m going to have a big house with a pool and a slide in it.' So I’m like, 'Whoa, okay, interesting.'”

    Tillman’s dad knows a thing or two about the NFL. He played four seasons in the league also as a wide receiver. As his son grew bigger and bigger, Tillman Sr. knew his son had the ability.

    While Jalin Hyatt got all the hype - I think Tillman is going to be a better pro.  Try to picture a Josh Gordon that likes football more than marijuana; and that's how I see Cedric Tillman.  We got a tall WR that actually likes football and he's good at it too!  

    I may be old. I may be tired. But that doesn't mean I'm uninspired.   

    @flugel said:

    While Jalin Hyatt got all the hype - I think Tillman is going to be a better pro.  Try to picture a Josh Gordon that likes football more than marijuana; and that's how I see Cedric Tillman.  We got a tall WR that actually likes football and he's good at it too!  

    I may be old. I may be tired. But that doesn't mean I'm uninspired.   

    I actually like Hyatt more... He's smooth.. He reminds me of Olave.. Super smooth route runner with good hands..... It'll be interesting to see how their careers shake out...

  • @orion said:

    I checked for that on draft day.  His dad is Cedric.  

    “Honestly since he was like nine," Tillman Sr. said with a laugh. "You know he said, 'Dad I’m going to go to the NFL. I’m going to have a big house with a pool and a slide in it.' So I’m like, 'Whoa, okay, interesting.'”

    Tillman’s dad knows a thing or two about the NFL. He played four seasons in the league also as a wide receiver. As his son grew bigger and bigger, Tillman Sr. knew his son had the ability.

    While Jalin Hyatt got all the hype - I think Tillman is going to be a better pro.  Try to picture a Josh Gordon that likes football more than marijuana; and that's how I see Cedric Tillman.  We got a tall WR that actually likes football and he's good at it too!  

    I may be old. I may be tired. But that doesn't mean I'm uninspired.   

    @flugel said:

    While Jalin Hyatt got all the hype - I think Tillman is going to be a better pro.  Try to picture a Josh Gordon that likes football more than marijuana; and that's how I see Cedric Tillman.  We got a tall WR that actually likes football and he's good at it too!  

    I may be old. I may be tired. But that doesn't mean I'm uninspired.   

    He's got the size this WR room needed, hopefully he's got the talent and work ethic go along with it. 

  • @orion said:

    Do you remember the play that I referenced?  I remember it very well.  I was like, WTF did that pussy just do?!

    I kind of do? 

    The Butch Davis era feels like it was 100 years ago. 

    @dutch-oven said:

    I kind of do? 

    The Butch Davis era feels like it was 100 years ago. 

    Drafting the work ethic of Gerrard Warren instead of LaDanian Tomlinson is the 1st thing I remembered about the Butch Davis era.  He followed that up with telling everyone they had to earn their starting jobs while Warren was lazy and sitting out drills in practice.  He also assured us HIS RB James Jackson was as good as Edge James.  After his defense and chosen ones at LBer gave up over 500 yards rushing to Jamal Lewis in just 6 quarters 1 season - Davis said something along the line of "when you really think about it - our defense played really well today outside of a few big plays they had on us."  Then there's the playoff game he power played Foge Fazio and went prevent defense on Tommy FREAKIN Maddox.  That blew a gigantic lead.  Having said that, a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle had the ideal opportunity to put the game away when a pass that hit him right between the 8 and the 6 on his jersey landed on the ground.  At the very least it would have been a 1st down causing Pitt to burn their final timeout.  At best, there was nobody between him and the end zone.  The really bad guy in this thread KJ had 4 receptions for 140 yards, which was an average of 35 yards per reception. I can assure you more veterans beside KJ hated Butch Davis on that team he quit on.

    I never thought KJ was the horrible player I'm reading he was in this thread.  In his 1st year on pretty much an expansion team in 99 he had 66 catches for 986 yards at 14.9 yards per catch and 8 TDs.  He played with bad hamstring his entire 2nd year so his numbers dropped.  However, his 3rd year he had 84 receptions for 1097 yards and 9 TDs.  That's a combined 17 TDs in just his rookie and 3rd season.  In comparison, the All Galaxy speedster Dennis Northcutt only had 11 TD receptions in the 7 years he was with the Browns.  The same guy that showed up to the combines at something like 163lbs and ran 4.4 forties at the time that was ideal in 2000.  The Browns drafted Northcutt with the 1st pick of round 2; and the knucklehead held out

    In a 56 minute interview Jay Crawford had with KJ on Club 46, KJ explained Marvin Harrison encouraged him to change positions from QB to WR at SU.  Not only that but he taught him how to play WR and worked with him.  Sounded like it continued in off-seasons following Harrison's time at SU. I realize NOBODY is Jerry Rice - but Harrison is a HOF WR that KJ really looked up to.  I'm guessing that was a big part of the reason he didn't feel like Rice needed to help him.  The truth of the matter is KJ only played WR for 1.5 years at SU.  When he was an All American as a senior it wasn't at WR. It was as a return man on STs.  Considering all that, I think he played some decent football in Cleveland at least early-on.

  • @dutch-oven said:

    I kind of do? 

    The Butch Davis era feels like it was 100 years ago. 

    Drafting the work ethic of Gerrard Warren instead of LaDanian Tomlinson is the 1st thing I remembered about the Butch Davis era.  He followed that up with telling everyone they had to earn their starting jobs while Warren was lazy and sitting out drills in practice.  He also assured us HIS RB James Jackson was as good as Edge James.  After his defense and chosen ones at LBer gave up over 500 yards rushing to Jamal Lewis in just 6 quarters 1 season - Davis said something along the line of "when you really think about it - our defense played really well today outside of a few big plays they had on us."  Then there's the playoff game he power played Foge Fazio and went prevent defense on Tommy FREAKIN Maddox.  That blew a gigantic lead.  Having said that, a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle had the ideal opportunity to put the game away when a pass that hit him right between the 8 and the 6 on his jersey landed on the ground.  At the very least it would have been a 1st down causing Pitt to burn their final timeout.  At best, there was nobody between him and the end zone.  The really bad guy in this thread KJ had 4 receptions for 140 yards, which was an average of 35 yards per reception. I can assure you more veterans beside KJ hated Butch Davis on that team he quit on.

    I never thought KJ was the horrible player I'm reading he was in this thread.  In his 1st year on pretty much an expansion team in 99 he had 66 catches for 986 yards at 14.9 yards per catch and 8 TDs.  He played with bad hamstring his entire 2nd year so his numbers dropped.  However, his 3rd year he had 84 receptions for 1097 yards and 9 TDs.  That's a combined 17 TDs in just his rookie and 3rd season.  In comparison, the All Galaxy speedster Dennis Northcutt only had 11 TD receptions in the 7 years he was with the Browns.  The same guy that showed up to the combines at something like 163lbs and ran 4.4 forties at the time that was ideal in 2000.  The Browns drafted Northcutt with the 1st pick of round 2; and the knucklehead held out

    In a 56 minute interview Jay Crawford had with KJ on Club 46, KJ explained Marvin Harrison encouraged him to change positions from QB to WR at SU.  Not only that but he taught him how to play WR and worked with him.  Sounded like it continued in off-seasons following Harrison's time at SU. I realize NOBODY is Jerry Rice - but Harrison is a HOF WR that KJ really looked up to.  I'm guessing that was a big part of the reason he didn't feel like Rice needed to help him.  The truth of the matter is KJ only played WR for 1.5 years at SU.  When he was an All American as a senior it wasn't at WR. It was as a return man on STs.  Considering all that, I think he played some decent football in Cleveland at least early-on.

    @flugel said:

    a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle

    I remember it as an out pattern near the sidelines.  Me and two of my best friends were watching the game and all three of us, at the same instant yelled out Ohhh!!!

    I also recall that all of Butch's scouts had told him to draft NOT Gerard Warren, but Richard Seymour.  But Noooo, 'cos Butch recruited Warren so it HAD to be Warren.

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

  • @flugel said:

    a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle

    I remember it as an out pattern near the sidelines.  Me and two of my best friends were watching the game and all three of us, at the same instant yelled out Ohhh!!!

    I also recall that all of Butch's scouts had told him to draft NOT Gerard Warren, but Richard Seymour.  But Noooo, 'cos Butch recruited Warren so it HAD to be Warren.

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

    @orion said:

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

    Yes indeed...

  • @flugel said:

    a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle

    I remember it as an out pattern near the sidelines.  Me and two of my best friends were watching the game and all three of us, at the same instant yelled out Ohhh!!!

    I also recall that all of Butch's scouts had told him to draft NOT Gerard Warren, but Richard Seymour.  But Noooo, 'cos Butch recruited Warren so it HAD to be Warren.

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

    @orion said:

    I remember it as an out pattern near the sidelines.  Me and two of my best friends were watching the game and all three of us, at the same instant yelled out Ohhh!!!

    I also recall that all of Butch's scouts had told him to draft NOT Gerard Warren, but Richard Seymour.  But Noooo, 'cos Butch recruited Warren so it HAD to be Warren.

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

    Just like we should've drafted Roethlisberger instead of his "Souldja" WIn-SLOW.. I still think Davis is a great coach... Davis's biggest enemy was himself and his ego...

  • @flugel said:

    a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle

    I remember it as an out pattern near the sidelines.  Me and two of my best friends were watching the game and all three of us, at the same instant yelled out Ohhh!!!

    I also recall that all of Butch's scouts had told him to draft NOT Gerard Warren, but Richard Seymour.  But Noooo, 'cos Butch recruited Warren so it HAD to be Warren.

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

    @orion said:

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

    @flugel said:

    Yes indeed...

    I'm fairly certain Flugs is 100 years ago now. Next I expect he'll be talking the good ole days of Jim Thorpe.?

  • @dutch-oven said:

    I kind of do? 

    The Butch Davis era feels like it was 100 years ago. 

    Drafting the work ethic of Gerrard Warren instead of LaDanian Tomlinson is the 1st thing I remembered about the Butch Davis era.  He followed that up with telling everyone they had to earn their starting jobs while Warren was lazy and sitting out drills in practice.  He also assured us HIS RB James Jackson was as good as Edge James.  After his defense and chosen ones at LBer gave up over 500 yards rushing to Jamal Lewis in just 6 quarters 1 season - Davis said something along the line of "when you really think about it - our defense played really well today outside of a few big plays they had on us."  Then there's the playoff game he power played Foge Fazio and went prevent defense on Tommy FREAKIN Maddox.  That blew a gigantic lead.  Having said that, a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle had the ideal opportunity to put the game away when a pass that hit him right between the 8 and the 6 on his jersey landed on the ground.  At the very least it would have been a 1st down causing Pitt to burn their final timeout.  At best, there was nobody between him and the end zone.  The really bad guy in this thread KJ had 4 receptions for 140 yards, which was an average of 35 yards per reception. I can assure you more veterans beside KJ hated Butch Davis on that team he quit on.

    I never thought KJ was the horrible player I'm reading he was in this thread.  In his 1st year on pretty much an expansion team in 99 he had 66 catches for 986 yards at 14.9 yards per catch and 8 TDs.  He played with bad hamstring his entire 2nd year so his numbers dropped.  However, his 3rd year he had 84 receptions for 1097 yards and 9 TDs.  That's a combined 17 TDs in just his rookie and 3rd season.  In comparison, the All Galaxy speedster Dennis Northcutt only had 11 TD receptions in the 7 years he was with the Browns.  The same guy that showed up to the combines at something like 163lbs and ran 4.4 forties at the time that was ideal in 2000.  The Browns drafted Northcutt with the 1st pick of round 2; and the knucklehead held out

    In a 56 minute interview Jay Crawford had with KJ on Club 46, KJ explained Marvin Harrison encouraged him to change positions from QB to WR at SU.  Not only that but he taught him how to play WR and worked with him.  Sounded like it continued in off-seasons following Harrison's time at SU. I realize NOBODY is Jerry Rice - but Harrison is a HOF WR that KJ really looked up to.  I'm guessing that was a big part of the reason he didn't feel like Rice needed to help him.  The truth of the matter is KJ only played WR for 1.5 years at SU.  When he was an All American as a senior it wasn't at WR. It was as a return man on STs.  Considering all that, I think he played some decent football in Cleveland at least early-on.

    @flugel said:

    Drafting the work ethic of Gerrard Warren instead of LaDanian Tomlinson is the 1st thing I remembered about the Butch Davis era.  He followed that up with telling everyone they had to earn their starting jobs while Warren was lazy and sitting out drills in practice.  He also assured us HIS RB James Jackson was as good as Edge James.  After his defense and chosen ones at LBer gave up over 500 yards rushing to Jamal Lewis in just 6 quarters 1 season - Davis said something along the line of "when you really think about it - our defense played really well today outside of a few big plays they had on us."  Then there's the playoff game he power played Foge Fazio and went prevent defense on Tommy FREAKIN Maddox.  That blew a gigantic lead.  Having said that, a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle had the ideal opportunity to put the game away when a pass that hit him right between the 8 and the 6 on his jersey landed on the ground.  At the very least it would have been a 1st down causing Pitt to burn their final timeout.  At best, there was nobody between him and the end zone.  The really bad guy in this thread KJ had 4 receptions for 140 yards, which was an average of 35 yards per reception. I can assure you more veterans beside KJ hated Butch Davis on that team he quit on.

    I never thought KJ was the horrible player I'm reading he was in this thread.  In his 1st year on pretty much an expansion team in 99 he had 66 catches for 986 yards at 14.9 yards per catch and 8 TDs.  He played with bad hamstring his entire 2nd year so his numbers dropped.  However, his 3rd year he had 84 receptions for 1097 yards and 9 TDs.  That's a combined 17 TDs in just his rookie and 3rd season.  In comparison, the All Galaxy speedster Dennis Northcutt only had 11 TD receptions in the 7 years he was with the Browns.  The same guy that showed up to the combines at something like 163lbs and ran 4.4 forties at the time that was ideal in 2000.  The Browns drafted Northcutt with the 1st pick of round 2; and the knucklehead held out

    In a 56 minute interview Jay Crawford had with KJ on Club 46, KJ explained Marvin Harrison encouraged him to change positions from QB to WR at SU.  Not only that but he taught him how to play WR and worked with him.  Sounded like it continued in off-seasons following Harrison's time at SU. I realize NOBODY is Jerry Rice - but Harrison is a HOF WR that KJ really looked up to.  I'm guessing that was a big part of the reason he didn't feel like Rice needed to help him.  The truth of the matter is KJ only played WR for 1.5 years at SU.  When he was an All American as a senior it wasn't at WR. It was as a return man on STs.  Considering all that, I think he played some decent football in Cleveland at least early-on.

    KJ was good

    The other thing I remember about Butch was he fell in love with Kelly Holcomb because of the playoff game vs Pitt. He forgot Pitt was down two starting CBs in that game. 

    Couch had flaws but could have been something good. Never had a clean pocket. 

    Damn, I wish these tragic memories would disappear from my brain?

  • @flugel said:

    a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle

    I remember it as an out pattern near the sidelines.  Me and two of my best friends were watching the game and all three of us, at the same instant yelled out Ohhh!!!

    I also recall that all of Butch's scouts had told him to draft NOT Gerard Warren, but Richard Seymour.  But Noooo, 'cos Butch recruited Warren so it HAD to be Warren.

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

    @orion said:

    I remember it as an out pattern near the sidelines.  Me and two of my best friends were watching the game and all three of us, at the same instant yelled out Ohhh!!!

    I also recall that all of Butch's scouts had told him to draft NOT Gerard Warren, but Richard Seymour.  But Noooo, 'cos Butch recruited Warren so it HAD to be Warren.

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

    I went back to find it for us and it's near the last 2 minutes of the game.  You can find it on youtube.  He drops the ball with one of his feet on the hash marks; so it wasn't an out pattern to the sidelines.  That said, he was not going toward the middle of the field as I described it.  Most important point is he dropped a pass that would  have made Pittsburgh burn their final time while the Browns would have got a brand new set of downs that late in the game. 

  • @flugel said:

    Drafting the work ethic of Gerrard Warren instead of LaDanian Tomlinson is the 1st thing I remembered about the Butch Davis era.  He followed that up with telling everyone they had to earn their starting jobs while Warren was lazy and sitting out drills in practice.  He also assured us HIS RB James Jackson was as good as Edge James.  After his defense and chosen ones at LBer gave up over 500 yards rushing to Jamal Lewis in just 6 quarters 1 season - Davis said something along the line of "when you really think about it - our defense played really well today outside of a few big plays they had on us."  Then there's the playoff game he power played Foge Fazio and went prevent defense on Tommy FREAKIN Maddox.  That blew a gigantic lead.  Having said that, a wide open Dennis Northcutt over the middle had the ideal opportunity to put the game away when a pass that hit him right between the 8 and the 6 on his jersey landed on the ground.  At the very least it would have been a 1st down causing Pitt to burn their final timeout.  At best, there was nobody between him and the end zone.  The really bad guy in this thread KJ had 4 receptions for 140 yards, which was an average of 35 yards per reception. I can assure you more veterans beside KJ hated Butch Davis on that team he quit on.

    I never thought KJ was the horrible player I'm reading he was in this thread.  In his 1st year on pretty much an expansion team in 99 he had 66 catches for 986 yards at 14.9 yards per catch and 8 TDs.  He played with bad hamstring his entire 2nd year so his numbers dropped.  However, his 3rd year he had 84 receptions for 1097 yards and 9 TDs.  That's a combined 17 TDs in just his rookie and 3rd season.  In comparison, the All Galaxy speedster Dennis Northcutt only had 11 TD receptions in the 7 years he was with the Browns.  The same guy that showed up to the combines at something like 163lbs and ran 4.4 forties at the time that was ideal in 2000.  The Browns drafted Northcutt with the 1st pick of round 2; and the knucklehead held out

    In a 56 minute interview Jay Crawford had with KJ on Club 46, KJ explained Marvin Harrison encouraged him to change positions from QB to WR at SU.  Not only that but he taught him how to play WR and worked with him.  Sounded like it continued in off-seasons following Harrison's time at SU. I realize NOBODY is Jerry Rice - but Harrison is a HOF WR that KJ really looked up to.  I'm guessing that was a big part of the reason he didn't feel like Rice needed to help him.  The truth of the matter is KJ only played WR for 1.5 years at SU.  When he was an All American as a senior it wasn't at WR. It was as a return man on STs.  Considering all that, I think he played some decent football in Cleveland at least early-on.

    KJ was good

    The other thing I remember about Butch was he fell in love with Kelly Holcomb because of the playoff game vs Pitt. He forgot Pitt was down two starting CBs in that game. 

    Couch had flaws but could have been something good. Never had a clean pocket. 

    Damn, I wish these tragic memories would disappear from my brain?

    @bob806 said:

    KJ was good

    The other thing I remember about Butch was he fell in love with Kelly Holcomb because of the playoff game vs Pitt. He forgot Pitt was down two starting CBs in that game. 

    Couch had flaws but could have been something good. Never had a clean pocket. 

    Damn, I wish these tragic memories would disappear from my brain?

    KJ was ok... but like Dropcutt.. He was a pussy and afraid to catch in traffic

  • @orion said:

    I remember it as an out pattern near the sidelines.  Me and two of my best friends were watching the game and all three of us, at the same instant yelled out Ohhh!!!

    I also recall that all of Butch's scouts had told him to draft NOT Gerard Warren, but Richard Seymour.  But Noooo, 'cos Butch recruited Warren so it HAD to be Warren.

    But....that was 100 years ago now.  🙂

    I went back to find it for us and it's near the last 2 minutes of the game.  You can find it on youtube.  He drops the ball with one of his feet on the hash marks; so it wasn't an out pattern to the sidelines.  That said, he was not going toward the middle of the field as I described it.  Most important point is he dropped a pass that would  have made Pittsburgh burn their final time while the Browns would have got a brand new set of downs that late in the game. 

    @flugel said:

    made Pittsburgh burn their final time while the Browns would have got a brand new set of downs that late in the game. 

    Yup.  That easy catch, dropped, cost us a playoff win against the Steelers.  It doesn't get much worse than that!  Sorry!  Dropcutt for life.

  • @flugel said:

    made Pittsburgh burn their final time while the Browns would have got a brand new set of downs that late in the game. 

    Yup.  That easy catch, dropped, cost us a playoff win against the Steelers.  It doesn't get much worse than that!  Sorry!  Dropcutt for life.

    @orion said:

    Yup.  That easy catch, dropped, cost us a playoff win against the Steelers.  It doesn't get much worse than that!  Sorry!  Dropcutt for life.

    Do you know who else dropped a very important pass that could have sealed the deal that day?  After a rookie season getting 10 INTs as a Nickel Back after being drafted in the 4th round out of the University of South Florida in 2001 - DB Anthony Henry had an easy INT bounce off his chest in the 2nd half of that playoff game vrs Pitt following the 2002 season.

    I don't know about anyone else; but for me - watching Cleveland FINISH Pittsburgh at Pittsburgh in the playoffs after the 2020 season put a lot of closure on that previous post season game against them.  This time the Browns intercepted Roethlisberger 5 times after they recovered the bad shotgun snap to him in the end zone on the opening play.  41 more points later - it was a very refreshing team win with NOBODY willing to give them charity.