The State of the 2024 Browns: Secondary
-
Great analysis. Thanks for the research, effort and time it took to put this together @flugel.
I'll admit, as a former interior OL, my focus when watching games is always the LOS and the box. To steal a phrase from past coaches, I only notice the secondary when something really good or something really bad happens.
That being said, this Browns secondary is, in my opinion, the best since Frank Minnifield and Hanford Dixon. The original Dawgs! I do agree that we have our best player in the secondary in Denzel Ward since Eric Turner (gone too soon).
The secondary nicely compliments the DL and we all know how they work hand in hand.
As a team, it would be awesome to lead the league's defenses in sacks and INTs!
Living in Colts' Country, I see similarities in the value of a single player. The Colts defense of the late 2000s was a completely different animal when Bob Sanders (Erie, PA/Iowa) was on the field than when he was not. The Browns defense and secondary is a completely different animal when Denzel Ward is on the field. Ward needs to stay healthy - whatever it takes.
I don't want to jump the gun, but I'm also not living under a rock. I hope the Browns Defensive Staff is learning, growing and soaking up as much knowledge as possible from Jim Schwartz. I know last year he said he wasn't interested in being an HC again, but time, flattery and money can change opinions...easily. Hopefully, there is a plan just in case!
Three weeks and a day from training camp so I'll recite the first cheer my Dad (also gone too soon) taught me. Say it with me because you know the words.
"HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO! (HOO HOO!) HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO! (HOO HOO!)"
-
Great analysis. Thanks for the research, effort and time it took to put this together @flugel.
I'll admit, as a former interior OL, my focus when watching games is always the LOS and the box. To steal a phrase from past coaches, I only notice the secondary when something really good or something really bad happens.
That being said, this Browns secondary is, in my opinion, the best since Frank Minnifield and Hanford Dixon. The original Dawgs! I do agree that we have our best player in the secondary in Denzel Ward since Eric Turner (gone too soon).
The secondary nicely compliments the DL and we all know how they work hand in hand.
As a team, it would be awesome to lead the league's defenses in sacks and INTs!
Living in Colts' Country, I see similarities in the value of a single player. The Colts defense of the late 2000s was a completely different animal when Bob Sanders (Erie, PA/Iowa) was on the field than when he was not. The Browns defense and secondary is a completely different animal when Denzel Ward is on the field. Ward needs to stay healthy - whatever it takes.
I don't want to jump the gun, but I'm also not living under a rock. I hope the Browns Defensive Staff is learning, growing and soaking up as much knowledge as possible from Jim Schwartz. I know last year he said he wasn't interested in being an HC again, but time, flattery and money can change opinions...easily. Hopefully, there is a plan just in case!
Three weeks and a day from training camp so I'll recite the first cheer my Dad (also gone too soon) taught me. Say it with me because you know the words.
"HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO! (HOO HOO!) HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO! (HOO HOO!)"
As a team, it would be awesome to lead the league in sacks and INTs!
Well, we were 6th in Sacks last year.....and 3rd (5-way tie) in INT's. But we were 21st in sacks allowed and dead last in INT's thrown. We had some rather poor QB play last year which accounts for some of those negative stats, but the OL has to come together (and stay together, please) and protect the QB better this year.
-
As a team, it would be awesome to lead the league in sacks and INTs!
Well, we were 6th in Sacks last year.....and 3rd (5-way tie) in INT's. But we were 21st in sacks allowed and dead last in INT's thrown. We had some rather poor QB play last year which accounts for some of those negative stats, but the OL has to come together (and stay together, please) and protect the QB better this year.
Well, we were 6th in Sacks last year.....and 3rd (5-way tie) in INT's. But we were 21st in sacks allowed and dead last in INT's thrown. We had some rather poor QB play last year which accounts for some of those negative stats, but the OL has to come together (and stay together, please) and protect the QB better this year.
I amended. I meant strictly defensive stats.
My bad on the confusion.
Fully agreed on your OL take.
-
Great analysis. Thanks for the research, effort and time it took to put this together @flugel.
I'll admit, as a former interior OL, my focus when watching games is always the LOS and the box. To steal a phrase from past coaches, I only notice the secondary when something really good or something really bad happens.
That being said, this Browns secondary is, in my opinion, the best since Frank Minnifield and Hanford Dixon. The original Dawgs! I do agree that we have our best player in the secondary in Denzel Ward since Eric Turner (gone too soon).
The secondary nicely compliments the DL and we all know how they work hand in hand.
As a team, it would be awesome to lead the league's defenses in sacks and INTs!
Living in Colts' Country, I see similarities in the value of a single player. The Colts defense of the late 2000s was a completely different animal when Bob Sanders (Erie, PA/Iowa) was on the field than when he was not. The Browns defense and secondary is a completely different animal when Denzel Ward is on the field. Ward needs to stay healthy - whatever it takes.
I don't want to jump the gun, but I'm also not living under a rock. I hope the Browns Defensive Staff is learning, growing and soaking up as much knowledge as possible from Jim Schwartz. I know last year he said he wasn't interested in being an HC again, but time, flattery and money can change opinions...easily. Hopefully, there is a plan just in case!
Three weeks and a day from training camp so I'll recite the first cheer my Dad (also gone too soon) taught me. Say it with me because you know the words.
"HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO! (HOO HOO!) HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO! (HOO HOO!)"
Great analysis. Thanks for the research, effort and time it took to put this together @flugel.
I'll admit, as a former interior OL, my focus when watching games is always the LOS and the box. To steal a phrase from past coaches, I only notice the secondary when something really good or something really bad happens.
That being said, this Browns secondary is, in my opinion, the best since Frank Minnifield and Hanford Dixon. The original Dawgs! I do agree that we have our best player in the secondary in Denzel Ward since Eric Turner (gone too soon).
The secondary nicely compliments the DL and we all know how they work hand in hand.
As a team, it would be awesome to lead the league in sacks and INTs!
Living in Colts' Country, I see similarities in the value of a single player. The Colts defense of the late 2000s was a completely different animal when Bob Sanders (Erie, PA/Iowa) was on the field than when he was not. The Browns defense and secondary is a completely different animal when Denzel Ward is on the field. Ward needs to stay healthy - whatever it takes.
I don't want to jump the gun, but I'm also not living under a rock. I hope the Browns Defensive Staff is learning, growing and soaking up as much knowledge as possible from Jim Schwartz. I know last year he said he wasn't interested in being an HC again, but time, flattery and money can change opinions...easily. Hopefully, there is a plan just in case!
Three weeks and a day from training camp so I'll recite the first cheer my Dad (also gone too soon) taught me. Say it with me because you know the words.
"HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO! (HOO HOO!) HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO! (HOO HOO!)"
Thank you AP1! Much appreciated and glad you liked it! From 1 former interior offensive lineman to another, as important as the secondary is - I rarely ever spend much time dissecting it during the seasons. I tried to get some names out there for us to get a little acquainted with before training camp starts in a few weeks aside from the ones we already know. I'm really looking forward to football season as always. I think we can take that next step if the injury volume doesn't get quite as out of control as it did last year.
-
Well, we were 6th in Sacks last year.....and 3rd (5-way tie) in INT's. But we were 21st in sacks allowed and dead last in INT's thrown. We had some rather poor QB play last year which accounts for some of those negative stats, but the OL has to come together (and stay together, please) and protect the QB better this year.
I amended. I meant strictly defensive stats.
My bad on the confusion.
Fully agreed on your OL take.
I meant strictly defensive stats.
I knew that (no, my bad
)....and I thought that was pretty good, but always room for improvement...then I thought of the offensive side of the ball and how those numbers would be on the other side of the spectrum.
The Browns defense and secondary is a completely different animal when Denzel Ward is on the field. Ward needs to stay healthy
Hospital Ward as ballpeen calls him. We can pretty much count on him being injured and out for about 4 games...but I think the secondary has been better poised, personnel wise, to weather the storm of his absence than in the past. But we certainly need Ward & Garrett on the field! Just like we need Watson, Conklin / Dewand Jones, Wills and Chubb on offense. We need to have some luck with the injury bug. We need our starters on the field.
-
Enthusiastic write up, bubs. Again, I know how much time this takes and I appreciate those efforts.
Even though there is talent and ability, for me, DB is home. So I suppose I'm a bit more bullish on this group than most.
The secondary, as a whole and individually, were undressed by Houston, top to bottom. While there are several concerns I have, safety situation is the most concerning. The biggest of those concerns being Delpit having possibly reached his mental ceiling on the field.
His lapses in coverage and in run fits are a huge issue, and there are two seasons of film on it now. For all that he does good and great, there is an equal amount that can be exploited.
The rest, in order.
- Depth behind Grant and Juan
- Emerson's physical abilities vs formation constraints
- Newsome not fulfilling his potential as the possible#1 CB on this roster.
For all the hope, I have reservations. Because this schedule is going to test this group far beyond what they got the first half of last year's season.
-
Enthusiastic write up, bubs. Again, I know how much time this takes and I appreciate those efforts.
Even though there is talent and ability, for me, DB is home. So I suppose I'm a bit more bullish on this group than most.
The secondary, as a whole and individually, were undressed by Houston, top to bottom. While there are several concerns I have, safety situation is the most concerning. The biggest of those concerns being Delpit having possibly reached his mental ceiling on the field.
His lapses in coverage and in run fits are a huge issue, and there are two seasons of film on it now. For all that he does good and great, there is an equal amount that can be exploited.
The rest, in order.
- Depth behind Grant and Juan
- Emerson's physical abilities vs formation constraints
- Newsome not fulfilling his potential as the possible#1 CB on this roster.
For all the hope, I have reservations. Because this schedule is going to test this group far beyond what they got the first half of last year's season.
The secondary, as a whole and individually, were undressed by Houston, top to bottom.
while I am not going to entirely disagree, It didn't help that we didn't come close to getting any pressure on Stroud, as i remember we didn't come close to even getting one sack. So it is pretty easy and near sighted to put all the blame on the secondary.
-
Enthusiastic write up, bubs. Again, I know how much time this takes and I appreciate those efforts.
Even though there is talent and ability, for me, DB is home. So I suppose I'm a bit more bullish on this group than most.
The secondary, as a whole and individually, were undressed by Houston, top to bottom. While there are several concerns I have, safety situation is the most concerning. The biggest of those concerns being Delpit having possibly reached his mental ceiling on the field.
His lapses in coverage and in run fits are a huge issue, and there are two seasons of film on it now. For all that he does good and great, there is an equal amount that can be exploited.
The rest, in order.
- Depth behind Grant and Juan
- Emerson's physical abilities vs formation constraints
- Newsome not fulfilling his potential as the possible#1 CB on this roster.
For all the hope, I have reservations. Because this schedule is going to test this group far beyond what they got the first half of last year's season.
Enthusiastic write up, bubs. Again, I know how much time this takes and I appreciate those efforts.
Even though there is talent and ability, for me, DB is home. So I suppose I'm a bit more bullish on this group than most.
The secondary, as a whole and individually, were undressed by Houston, top to bottom. While there are several concerns I have, safety situation is the most concerning. The biggest of those concerns being Delpit having possibly reached his mental ceiling on the field.
His lapses in coverage and in run fits are a huge issue, and there are two seasons of film on it now. For all that he does good and great, there is an equal amount that can be exploited.
The rest, in order.
- Depth behind Grant and Juan
- Emerson's physical abilities vs formation constraints
- Newsome not fulfilling his potential as the possible#1 CB on this roster.
For all the hope, I have reservations. Because this schedule is going to test this group far beyond what they got the first half of last year's season.
No worries T. I appreciate your feedback all the same. I can't really argue anything you said at this point.
-
Enthusiastic write up, bubs. Again, I know how much time this takes and I appreciate those efforts.
Even though there is talent and ability, for me, DB is home. So I suppose I'm a bit more bullish on this group than most.
The secondary, as a whole and individually, were undressed by Houston, top to bottom. While there are several concerns I have, safety situation is the most concerning. The biggest of those concerns being Delpit having possibly reached his mental ceiling on the field.
His lapses in coverage and in run fits are a huge issue, and there are two seasons of film on it now. For all that he does good and great, there is an equal amount that can be exploited.
The rest, in order.
- Depth behind Grant and Juan
- Emerson's physical abilities vs formation constraints
- Newsome not fulfilling his potential as the possible#1 CB on this roster.
For all the hope, I have reservations. Because this schedule is going to test this group far beyond what they got the first half of last year's season.
The secondary, as a whole and individually, were undressed by Houston, top to bottom.
Yup. Our D was no match for them in that playoff game. And our offense kept giving them the ball...and points. Basically a crash landing to our season.
-
Yup. Our D was no match for them in that playoff game. And our offense kept giving them the ball...and points. Basically a crash landing to our season.
Flacco had his worst game throwing 2 INTs for Houston TDs. Even though Ward returned from injury to play in the game -he didn't look at all like the guy he was pre-injury in many of the highlights I saw of him that game.
-
The secondary, as a whole and individually, were undressed by Houston, top to bottom.
while I am not going to entirely disagree, It didn't help that we didn't come close to getting any pressure on Stroud, as i remember we didn't come close to even getting one sack. So it is pretty easy and near sighted to put all the blame on the secondary.
while I am not going to entirely disagree, It didn't help that we didn't come close to getting any pressure on Stroud, as i remember we didn't come close to even getting one sack. So it is pretty easy and near sighted to put all the blame on the secondary.
I'm not putting the totality of the Houston loss on the secondary itself. I am well aware of all the causes, both offensively and defensively, from that game.
My comments discount the pass rush itself. Technique and assignment breakdowns, mental lapses and flat out losing the chess match of personnel matchups - that doesn't just go away in one off season, unless major improvement and growth happens.
These things, regardless of pass rush, have been an issue I've pointed out since the Chicago game. Good fortune, and a favorable schedule, worked to our advantage most of the season.... Until it didn't.
-
while I am not going to entirely disagree, It didn't help that we didn't come close to getting any pressure on Stroud, as i remember we didn't come close to even getting one sack. So it is pretty easy and near sighted to put all the blame on the secondary.
I'm not putting the totality of the Houston loss on the secondary itself. I am well aware of all the causes, both offensively and defensively, from that game.
My comments discount the pass rush itself. Technique and assignment breakdowns, mental lapses and flat out losing the chess match of personnel matchups - that doesn't just go away in one off season, unless major improvement and growth happens.
These things, regardless of pass rush, have been an issue I've pointed out since the Chicago game. Good fortune, and a favorable schedule, worked to our advantage most of the season.... Until it didn't.
Good fortune, and a favorable schedule, worked to our advantage most of the season....
Truth. Just look at San Fran missing the game winning FG. We had some good fortune. (I remember in the 4th quarter, my 49er friend texting me, "Your Browns are beating us up.") We, in fact, played them tough...
-
while I am not going to entirely disagree, It didn't help that we didn't come close to getting any pressure on Stroud, as i remember we didn't come close to even getting one sack. So it is pretty easy and near sighted to put all the blame on the secondary.
I'm not putting the totality of the Houston loss on the secondary itself. I am well aware of all the causes, both offensively and defensively, from that game.
My comments discount the pass rush itself. Technique and assignment breakdowns, mental lapses and flat out losing the chess match of personnel matchups - that doesn't just go away in one off season, unless major improvement and growth happens.
These things, regardless of pass rush, have been an issue I've pointed out since the Chicago game. Good fortune, and a favorable schedule, worked to our advantage most of the season.... Until it didn't.
I'm not putting the totality of the Houston loss on the secondary itself. I am well aware of all the causes, both offensively and defensively, from that game.
My comments discount the pass rush itself. Technique and assignment breakdowns, mental lapses and flat out losing the chess match of personnel matchups - that doesn't just go away in one off season, unless major improvement and growth happens.
These things, regardless of pass rush, have been an issue I've pointed out since the Chicago game. Good fortune, and a favorable schedule, worked to our advantage most of the season.... Until it didn't.
you could put spyrgon winn back there with all the time in the world. And yes he will pick apart even the best of secondaries
-
while I am not going to entirely disagree, It didn't help that we didn't come close to getting any pressure on Stroud, as i remember we didn't come close to even getting one sack. So it is pretty easy and near sighted to put all the blame on the secondary.
I'm not putting the totality of the Houston loss on the secondary itself. I am well aware of all the causes, both offensively and defensively, from that game.
My comments discount the pass rush itself. Technique and assignment breakdowns, mental lapses and flat out losing the chess match of personnel matchups - that doesn't just go away in one off season, unless major improvement and growth happens.
These things, regardless of pass rush, have been an issue I've pointed out since the Chicago game. Good fortune, and a favorable schedule, worked to our advantage most of the season.... Until it didn't.
I'm not putting the totality of the Houston loss on the secondary itself. I am well aware of all the causes, both offensively and defensively, from that game.
My comments discount the pass rush itself. Technique and assignment breakdowns, mental lapses and flat out losing the chess match of personnel matchups - that doesn't just go away in one off season, unless major improvement and growth happens.
These things, regardless of pass rush, have been an issue I've pointed out since the Chicago game. Good fortune, and a favorable schedule, worked to our advantage most of the season.... Until it didn't.
I'm most worried about Safety like you pointed out earlier in this thread (depth and talent). You were right I did grade our secondary a little higher than I probably should have.
I recently brought up Justin Simmons as a 2 year band aid that would immediately make our Safety position better. He's an instinctive vet that sees things pre-snap; which is VERY important to the communication that is supposed to take place in the back tier. To be effective, experience and an ability to quickly diagnose what's coming via formations and tendencies is something Simmons offers that is currently lacking from our Safeties. Since the Watson trade drained our 1st round picks, while we traded the 2023 2nd round pick and we flushed the 2024 2nd round pick down the toilet - we need something of value in our back tier with the current schedule we're looking at. I'll roll out the red carpet for a great open field tackler like Simmons any time. Great instincts are just as important as footspeed to being in position to make the tackle or defend the pass. They're also a big reason Simmons made the Pro Bowl as recently as last year.
-
I'd be good with Simmons, depending on cost and cap situation.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login