The Official Browns at Patriots Game 8 Thread
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Aren't you in NC? Get your Goat was something I heard that shit all the time growing up as a kid in the Carolinas.
I'm on the North Coast, my guy. I lived in noVA for a few years though.
1) I get Watson saddled this team down hard, and not unlike Tua in Miami right now you have to play the guy who is earning that level of cheddar. But your points are all circling to my central thought around all this- has Kevin's scheme, offensive philosophy, and talent evaluation (which I'm overtly including the GM, etc in that) run it's course? Has the process gotten stale to the point where even if we had more solid play making, would it show in the record?
Kevin's offensive philosophy isn't all that dissimilar to a lot of what Shanny and KoC do.
- He's a zone blocking disciple
- Effectively run on vertical, iso, duo, and power concepts.
- Generate explosive runs on outside zones and pin & Pull
- Setup the misdirection and vertical passing game off the running game.
These things don't require spectacular players. But they do require a mix of starting and NFL average talent to execute.
Right now we lack either of those for the QB spot and 40% of the OL. That's no small deficiency when you're in a league of the finest football players on earth. If I said 40% of the workforce at, wherever your job is, wasn't up to standard, there would be a company wide issue, no?
2) A la Shanny- I've never been to suggest Kevin deserves a short leash. It's apparent that this squad blows and sucked last year as well. But to your point, there has to at least be something there, IMO, that shows a coach is getting the most out of the roster they do have.
I think seeing this team be competitive against a squad that might win the AFCE for 2.5 quarters, and should have walked into halftime with a lead, sort of speaks to that answer.
The issue is squeezing blood from a rock. The opening and sometimes 2nd drives are solid and demonstrating sound game planning and scouting by the offensive coaching staff. But the adjustments don't just happen at halftime. They happen usually in between drives. Once the Patriots Defense settled in after some well designed plays that put them on their heels, then their talent across the board trumped our ability to execute bread and butter offensive staples.
I know @calfoxwc likes to say dumb shit like "draw up plays to confuse the defense"... Stefanski did early, and it worked. But that isn't something you can do and live by every snap. It isn't realistic. We couldn't win on our weakside iso, we couldn't win on outside zone, and they sat all over high percentage concepts after the 1st qtr. We just don't have the horses to counter adjust. This has been the theme across entire position groups for multiple years - OL, WR's, Dline, LB's...
Like, hard to watch flat. Vrabel said it best -when the trick plays ran out, we could stop them.
Circle back around to my comment above. When you don't have the guys to win their individual assignments, you have to get "gimmicky" and reach deep into the bag. But that is not a stable, consistent offense. Once you put a lid on it, the offensive efficiency has to be leaned on. We can't be efficient for a lack of personnel.
It's a tired record, one I know people don't *WANT* to hear, but it's the truth. The problem is fans somehow expecting the same results week to week with a roster imbalance. What this team can do is incredibly limited to our opponents abilities and roster strength. You can run all over Miami, but you can't against New England. As such, the rest of the machine suffers.
I think Stefanski did an incredible job of this in 2023, but the last two years have been an absolute disaster. Scoring more than 20 points 4 times in the last 25+ games is an absolutely brutal call to this.
So the question becomes at the broad level- is this truly a talent problem, or is Kevin's evolution as an offensive mind running dry? Does, as I've mentioned, need to be recalibrated with a fresh start somewhere else? I want to make it clear that I'm not overtly on one side of the fence or the other (although my feet are probably dangling on the parting of ways).
I think Tommy Rees is something of that "recalibration" I've seen fresh concepts and things brought to this offense. I detailed that in my youtube analysis of Gabriel in the pre-season. But with that, there's only so far that these new installs will take you once they're out there for defenses to dissect and prepare for.
What I really can't get over in the immediate is that Dillon was his guy. It may end up coming out that the plan all along was to draft him as a high level back-up (Chase Daniels) type, punt this season, and God willing get the dude next year. It would be prudent to do that, candidly, given the Watson contract and draft capital. But when you have a dude out there who is dead last in YPA, air yards per throw, and 2nd to last in QBR (and essentially dead last) in an extended sample size, knowing that's the dude you reached for? Not ideal.
Agreed almost entirely. I think Stef goes to bat for his guys and won't throw people under the bus like how Hue or Pat Shurmur would. That's how you lose your locker room. But I'm not sold that Stefanski made Gabriel "his guy". You traditionally have a "coaches pick" every season, and I'm sure Stef has stepped up to claim Gabriel, in a respect. But I don't believe he poured over every single game for 2+ seasons and went "this is our guy either 1a or 2b". And if I'm wrong, then Stef may be a fine coach, but a great evaluator of talent he is not. And there's nothing wrong with that, but you can't have a coach having his pick once a year if it blows.
My fear was Gabriel was an overreach. By my estimate 2 rounds. That looks more and more the case every week.
Lastly, funny enough? The Browns in the initial rankings of Madden 25 the Browns were only slightly considered worse than Buffalo (88 to 87), and above both Detroit and New England: https://www.gamesradar.com/games/madden-nfl/madden-25-best-teams/. Makes you think-
Paper Tiger. Everyone looks great on X's and O's until the real bullets start flying. I'd be curious what that rating is now. Not that it really means much.
I know @calfoxwc likes to say dumb shit like "draw up plays to confuse the defense"... Stefanski did early, and it worked. But that isn't something you can do and live by every snap. It isn't realistic. We couldn't win on our weakside iso, we couldn't win on outside zone, and they sat all over high percentage concepts after the 1st qtr. We just don't have the horses to counter adjust. This has been the theme across entire position groups for multiple years - OL, WR's, Dline, LB's...
well, you aRE a dumb shit on a lot of things, just not "Xs" and "Os".
I blasted the play calling, and since you are too arrogant to read it, Shirley Tiam, I'll tell you flat out - Mike Vrabel blasted Stupanskis play calling.
So, you want to say Vrable doesn't know anything, but you are a so called grand poobah of football?
You should STFU once in a while, and yes, you would probably be like Aikman or Collinsworth. Too arrogant to be decent in most conversations.
Guess what I just found:
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Aren't you in NC? Get your Goat was something I heard that shit all the time growing up as a kid in the Carolinas.
I'm on the North Coast, my guy. I lived in noVA for a few years though.
1) I get Watson saddled this team down hard, and not unlike Tua in Miami right now you have to play the guy who is earning that level of cheddar. But your points are all circling to my central thought around all this- has Kevin's scheme, offensive philosophy, and talent evaluation (which I'm overtly including the GM, etc in that) run it's course? Has the process gotten stale to the point where even if we had more solid play making, would it show in the record?
Kevin's offensive philosophy isn't all that dissimilar to a lot of what Shanny and KoC do.
- He's a zone blocking disciple
- Effectively run on vertical, iso, duo, and power concepts.
- Generate explosive runs on outside zones and pin & Pull
- Setup the misdirection and vertical passing game off the running game.
These things don't require spectacular players. But they do require a mix of starting and NFL average talent to execute.
Right now we lack either of those for the QB spot and 40% of the OL. That's no small deficiency when you're in a league of the finest football players on earth. If I said 40% of the workforce at, wherever your job is, wasn't up to standard, there would be a company wide issue, no?
2) A la Shanny- I've never been to suggest Kevin deserves a short leash. It's apparent that this squad blows and sucked last year as well. But to your point, there has to at least be something there, IMO, that shows a coach is getting the most out of the roster they do have.
I think seeing this team be competitive against a squad that might win the AFCE for 2.5 quarters, and should have walked into halftime with a lead, sort of speaks to that answer.
The issue is squeezing blood from a rock. The opening and sometimes 2nd drives are solid and demonstrating sound game planning and scouting by the offensive coaching staff. But the adjustments don't just happen at halftime. They happen usually in between drives. Once the Patriots Defense settled in after some well designed plays that put them on their heels, then their talent across the board trumped our ability to execute bread and butter offensive staples.
I know @calfoxwc likes to say dumb shit like "draw up plays to confuse the defense"... Stefanski did early, and it worked. But that isn't something you can do and live by every snap. It isn't realistic. We couldn't win on our weakside iso, we couldn't win on outside zone, and they sat all over high percentage concepts after the 1st qtr. We just don't have the horses to counter adjust. This has been the theme across entire position groups for multiple years - OL, WR's, Dline, LB's...
Like, hard to watch flat. Vrabel said it best -when the trick plays ran out, we could stop them.
Circle back around to my comment above. When you don't have the guys to win their individual assignments, you have to get "gimmicky" and reach deep into the bag. But that is not a stable, consistent offense. Once you put a lid on it, the offensive efficiency has to be leaned on. We can't be efficient for a lack of personnel.
It's a tired record, one I know people don't *WANT* to hear, but it's the truth. The problem is fans somehow expecting the same results week to week with a roster imbalance. What this team can do is incredibly limited to our opponents abilities and roster strength. You can run all over Miami, but you can't against New England. As such, the rest of the machine suffers.
I think Stefanski did an incredible job of this in 2023, but the last two years have been an absolute disaster. Scoring more than 20 points 4 times in the last 25+ games is an absolutely brutal call to this.
So the question becomes at the broad level- is this truly a talent problem, or is Kevin's evolution as an offensive mind running dry? Does, as I've mentioned, need to be recalibrated with a fresh start somewhere else? I want to make it clear that I'm not overtly on one side of the fence or the other (although my feet are probably dangling on the parting of ways).
I think Tommy Rees is something of that "recalibration" I've seen fresh concepts and things brought to this offense. I detailed that in my youtube analysis of Gabriel in the pre-season. But with that, there's only so far that these new installs will take you once they're out there for defenses to dissect and prepare for.
What I really can't get over in the immediate is that Dillon was his guy. It may end up coming out that the plan all along was to draft him as a high level back-up (Chase Daniels) type, punt this season, and God willing get the dude next year. It would be prudent to do that, candidly, given the Watson contract and draft capital. But when you have a dude out there who is dead last in YPA, air yards per throw, and 2nd to last in QBR (and essentially dead last) in an extended sample size, knowing that's the dude you reached for? Not ideal.
Agreed almost entirely. I think Stef goes to bat for his guys and won't throw people under the bus like how Hue or Pat Shurmur would. That's how you lose your locker room. But I'm not sold that Stefanski made Gabriel "his guy". You traditionally have a "coaches pick" every season, and I'm sure Stef has stepped up to claim Gabriel, in a respect. But I don't believe he poured over every single game for 2+ seasons and went "this is our guy either 1a or 2b". And if I'm wrong, then Stef may be a fine coach, but a great evaluator of talent he is not. And there's nothing wrong with that, but you can't have a coach having his pick once a year if it blows.
My fear was Gabriel was an overreach. By my estimate 2 rounds. That looks more and more the case every week.
Lastly, funny enough? The Browns in the initial rankings of Madden 25 the Browns were only slightly considered worse than Buffalo (88 to 87), and above both Detroit and New England: https://www.gamesradar.com/games/madden-nfl/madden-25-best-teams/. Makes you think-
Paper Tiger. Everyone looks great on X's and O's until the real bullets start flying. I'd be curious what that rating is now. Not that it really means much.
I know @calfoxwc likes to say dumb shit like "draw up plays to confuse the defense"... Stefanski did early, and it worked. But that isn't something you can do and live by every snap. It isn't realistic.
oh, and I was talking about his play-calling.
and, you are a liar. I searched for "draw up plays to confuse the defense" in this entire thread, and the only result was your post. A few inventive plays can get a defense to second guess, maybe hesitate. Again, I've listened over the years to Vrabel, and shirley, you are NO Vrabel.
You make lame excuses to defend Teflon Stupanski. fine. And you dissed Josh Allen as garbage when we had the first pick and he was my pick in my stupid mock draft.......
. But you know your "Xs" and "Os", sure. LOL
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I know @calfoxwc likes to say dumb shit like "draw up plays to confuse the defense"... Stefanski did early, and it worked. But that isn't something you can do and live by every snap. It isn't realistic. We couldn't win on our weakside iso, we couldn't win on outside zone, and they sat all over high percentage concepts after the 1st qtr. We just don't have the horses to counter adjust. This has been the theme across entire position groups for multiple years - OL, WR's, Dline, LB's...
well, you aRE a dumb shit on a lot of things, just not "Xs" and "Os".
I blasted the play calling, and since you are too arrogant to read it, Shirley Tiam, I'll tell you flat out - Mike Vrabel blasted Stupanskis play calling.
So, you want to say Vrable doesn't know anything, but you are a so called grand poobah of football?
You should STFU once in a while, and yes, you would probably be like Aikman or Collinsworth. Too arrogant to be decent in most conversations.
Guess what I just found:
well, you aRE a dumb shit on a lot of things, just not "Xs" and "Os".
I blasted the play calling, and since you are too arrogant to read it, Shirley Tiam, I'll tell you flat out - Mike Vrabel blasted Stupanskis play calling.
So, you want to say Vrable doesn't know anything, but you are a so called grand poobah of football?
You should STFU once in a while, and yes, you would probably be like Aikman or Collinsworth. Too arrogant to be decent in most conversations.
You're socially awkward, bud. And you grew up that way, so I don't blame you for not picking up on social queues.
Mike Vrabel isn't blasting any coach. That isn't his style. And those believing that's what he's doing here are misrepresenting his intent or completely failed to understand what the man is saying.
- The Brownies opened with some trickery, some "gimmicky" play calls early. They did this to take advantage of an overly aggressive Patriots defense.
It worked a treat early. This is where the Xs and Os come in, so pay close attention.
- Vrabel is a Bill Belicheck disiple
- Means he has stolen some things defensively along the way.
- One of those things are installing odd fronts that naturally 2 gap. This means IDL plugging 2 gaps instead of just 1 (like Schwartz does) This (usually) means they feature 3 big IDLs that occupy anywhere from 3-5 gaps along the offensive line.
- what this means is that the Patriots, provided their DL holds up, can committ fewer bodies to limiting the running game while not surrendering numbers on the backend. It's incredibly effective against "lesser" teams, or teams that don't have the ability along the OL to win assignments against 2 gap defenses.
- the Patriots came out and starting A LOT of 2 gapping. Brownies OL couldn't win their assignments, and running lanes were a traffic ridden mess where you average 2ypc.
- So this mean that your standard offensive calls, which have a certain efficiency number tied to them (4ypc as an example) are cut in half. Your offense cant efficiently move the ball.
- the defense no longer has to play aggressive to run fits. They can patiently pace their heels and instead focus on being assignment sound and "staying home"
- your trick plays that you would use to counter an aggressive defense no longer work. Your gimmick, to manufacture cheap offensive yards, is gone.
- your play calling is incredibly limited. Now, like a python, you're slowly being constricted on offense. No efficiency means little to no explosion. Defense wears down, flood gates open late.
No, to clarify for yourself or anyone here who thinks Vrabel was insulting Stefanski directly - you are wrong.
He was saying that once the game settled in, and it came time to run your offense, they could limit the trick plays because the Pats just straight up were better across the board.
It sounds harsh, coming from coach Vrabel. But it isn't meant to be insulting.
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well, you aRE a dumb shit on a lot of things, just not "Xs" and "Os".
I blasted the play calling, and since you are too arrogant to read it, Shirley Tiam, I'll tell you flat out - Mike Vrabel blasted Stupanskis play calling.
So, you want to say Vrable doesn't know anything, but you are a so called grand poobah of football?
You should STFU once in a while, and yes, you would probably be like Aikman or Collinsworth. Too arrogant to be decent in most conversations.
You're socially awkward, bud. And you grew up that way, so I don't blame you for not picking up on social queues.
Mike Vrabel isn't blasting any coach. That isn't his style. And those believing that's what he's doing here are misrepresenting his intent or completely failed to understand what the man is saying.
- The Brownies opened with some trickery, some "gimmicky" play calls early. They did this to take advantage of an overly aggressive Patriots defense.
It worked a treat early. This is where the Xs and Os come in, so pay close attention.
- Vrabel is a Bill Belicheck disiple
- Means he has stolen some things defensively along the way.
- One of those things are installing odd fronts that naturally 2 gap. This means IDL plugging 2 gaps instead of just 1 (like Schwartz does) This (usually) means they feature 3 big IDLs that occupy anywhere from 3-5 gaps along the offensive line.
- what this means is that the Patriots, provided their DL holds up, can committ fewer bodies to limiting the running game while not surrendering numbers on the backend. It's incredibly effective against "lesser" teams, or teams that don't have the ability along the OL to win assignments against 2 gap defenses.
- the Patriots came out and starting A LOT of 2 gapping. Brownies OL couldn't win their assignments, and running lanes were a traffic ridden mess where you average 2ypc.
- So this mean that your standard offensive calls, which have a certain efficiency number tied to them (4ypc as an example) are cut in half. Your offense cant efficiently move the ball.
- the defense no longer has to play aggressive to run fits. They can patiently pace their heels and instead focus on being assignment sound and "staying home"
- your trick plays that you would use to counter an aggressive defense no longer work. Your gimmick, to manufacture cheap offensive yards, is gone.
- your play calling is incredibly limited. Now, like a python, you're slowly being constricted on offense. No efficiency means little to no explosion. Defense wears down, flood gates open late.
No, to clarify for yourself or anyone here who thinks Vrabel was insulting Stefanski directly - you are wrong.
He was saying that once the game settled in, and it came time to run your offense, they could limit the trick plays because the Pats just straight up were better across the board.
It sounds harsh, coming from coach Vrabel. But it isn't meant to be insulting.
(Troy Aikman, Chris Collinsworth blah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblah blah blah)
I never said anything about Vrabel intending to insult your stupanski, Shirley.
Those of us who have been criticizing stupanski's play calling watch the game without playing with our egos, or worse.
Even your sweetheart head coach said his play calling needs to improve.
So, that is straight from the horse's mouth, you pompous, bloviated horses ass.
Have a nice day in pouty Shirley Land.
Kevin Stefanski shares update on Cleveland Browns' playcalling situation
With pressure mounting to deliver better results, Cleveland's head coach acknowledges the need for improvement in this area -
I know @calfoxwc likes to say dumb shit like "draw up plays to confuse the defense"... Stefanski did early, and it worked. But that isn't something you can do and live by every snap. It isn't realistic.
oh, and I was talking about his play-calling.
and, you are a liar. I searched for "draw up plays to confuse the defense" in this entire thread, and the only result was your post. A few inventive plays can get a defense to second guess, maybe hesitate. Again, I've listened over the years to Vrabel, and shirley, you are NO Vrabel.
You make lame excuses to defend Teflon Stupanski. fine. And you dissed Josh Allen as garbage when we had the first pick and he was my pick in my stupid mock draft.......
. But you know your "Xs" and "Os", sure. LOL
oh, and I was talking about his play-calling.
and, you are a liar. I searched for "draw up plays to confuse the defense" in this entire thread, and the only result was your post.
10/16
Sorry, I said "confuse" instead of "fool"
The point remains the same for both you and I.
And never call me a liar again.
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Sweet Jesus, the 70 something toddler must have a full diaper today.
Your inferiority complexes have inferiority complexes, cal.
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oh, and I was talking about his play-calling.
and, you are a liar. I searched for "draw up plays to confuse the defense" in this entire thread, and the only result was your post.
10/16
Sorry, I said "confuse" instead of "fool"
The point remains the same for both you and I.
And never call me a liar again.
10/16
Sorry, I said "confuse" instead of "fool"
The point remains the same for both you and I.
And never call me a liar again.
And the point remains Shitmypantski is an awful head coach no matter how you choose to spin it.. But keep on keepin on...
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10/16
Sorry, I said "confuse" instead of "fool"
The point remains the same for both you and I.
And never call me a liar again.
And the point remains Shitmypantski is an awful head coach no matter how you choose to spin it.. But keep on keepin on...
And the point remains Shitmypantski is an awful head coach no matter how you choose to spin it.. But keep on keepin on...
Don't you think it's just a *little* odd to have un-clever attempts at nicknames for people you don't like? And don't you notice the, I guess I'll say "brand" of people who do that on here?
Look, I want to like you. But I need people to be reasonable.
I think there's a collective short term memory here.
Hue Jackson was awful
Pat Shurmur was awful
Freddie Kitchens was awful
Jim O Neil was fucking horrendous
When we over-apply words, they lose the gravity of their impact.
I'd ask you this, would a great head coach have beaten the Patriots with this roster?
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oh, and I was talking about his play-calling.
and, you are a liar. I searched for "draw up plays to confuse the defense" in this entire thread, and the only result was your post.
10/16
Sorry, I said "confuse" instead of "fool"
The point remains the same for both you and I.
And never call me a liar again.
Sorry, I said "confuse" instead of "fool"
The point remains the same for both you and I.
And never call me a liar again.
ok, dumbass.
I said: "The Browns need a leader, to inspire the team, fool defenses with his playcalling"
I know @calfoxwc likes to say dumb shit like "draw up plays to confuse the defense".
I never said anything like "draw plays up to confuse the defense".
I was not talking about trick plays, shirley. I was talking about play-calling.
So, that is right there is your face, and I think you are a liar. or, I'm wrong and you are so arrogant because you are stupid and can't read well.
This surely looks like you, Shirley.
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And the point remains Shitmypantski is an awful head coach no matter how you choose to spin it.. But keep on keepin on...
Don't you think it's just a *little* odd to have un-clever attempts at nicknames for people you don't like? And don't you notice the, I guess I'll say "brand" of people who do that on here?
Look, I want to like you. But I need people to be reasonable.
I think there's a collective short term memory here.
Hue Jackson was awful
Pat Shurmur was awful
Freddie Kitchens was awful
Jim O Neil was fucking horrendous
When we over-apply words, they lose the gravity of their impact.
I'd ask you this, would a great head coach have beaten the Patriots with this roster?
Don't you think it's just a *little* odd to have un-clever attempts at nicknames for people you don't like? And don't you notice the, I guess I'll say "brand" of people who do that on here?
Look, I want to like you. But I need people to be reasonable.
I think there's a collective short term memory here.
Hue Jackson was awful
Pat Shurmur was awful
Freddie Kitchens was awful
Jim O Neil was fucking horrendous
When we over-apply words, they lose the gravity of their impact.
I'd ask you this, would a great head coach have beaten the Patriots with this roster?
I believe a Tom Coughlan or Bill Parcells could get more mileage than this buffoon does so a direct answer is yes.. Winning the game?.. Yeah that's debatable.. The bottom line here... is.. He is LOSING! The name thing.. Nothing clever about it.. But the guy sucks... So yeah.. He deserves it.. He sucks so bad even Stephon Diggs wanted to get away from him...
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Don't you think it's just a *little* odd to have un-clever attempts at nicknames for people you don't like? And don't you notice the, I guess I'll say "brand" of people who do that on here?
Look, I want to like you. But I need people to be reasonable.
I think there's a collective short term memory here.
Hue Jackson was awful
Pat Shurmur was awful
Freddie Kitchens was awful
Jim O Neil was fucking horrendous
When we over-apply words, they lose the gravity of their impact.
I'd ask you this, would a great head coach have beaten the Patriots with this roster?
I believe a Tom Coughlan or Bill Parcells could get more mileage than this buffoon does so a direct answer is yes.. Winning the game?.. Yeah that's debatable.. The bottom line here... is.. He is LOSING! The name thing.. Nothing clever about it.. But the guy sucks... So yeah.. He deserves it.. He sucks so bad even Stephon Diggs wanted to get away from him...
I believe a Tom Coughlan or Bill Parcells could get more mileage than this buffoon does so a direct answer is yes.. Winning the game?.. Yeah that's debatable.. The bottom line here... is.. He is LOSING! The name thing.. Nothing clever about it.. But the guy sucks... So yeah.. He deserves it.. He sucks so bad even Stephon Diggs wanted to get away from him...
up arrow ! (ran out of em)
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Don't you think it's just a *little* odd to have un-clever attempts at nicknames for people you don't like? And don't you notice the, I guess I'll say "brand" of people who do that on here?
Look, I want to like you. But I need people to be reasonable.
I think there's a collective short term memory here.
Hue Jackson was awful
Pat Shurmur was awful
Freddie Kitchens was awful
Jim O Neil was fucking horrendous
When we over-apply words, they lose the gravity of their impact.
I'd ask you this, would a great head coach have beaten the Patriots with this roster?
I believe a Tom Coughlan or Bill Parcells could get more mileage than this buffoon does so a direct answer is yes.. Winning the game?.. Yeah that's debatable.. The bottom line here... is.. He is LOSING! The name thing.. Nothing clever about it.. But the guy sucks... So yeah.. He deserves it.. He sucks so bad even Stephon Diggs wanted to get away from him...
I believe a Tom Coughlan or Bill Parcells could get more mileage than this buffoon does so a direct answer is yes.. Winning the game?.. Yeah that's debatable.. The bottom line here... is.. He is LOSING! The name thing.. Nothing clever about it.. But the guy sucks... So yeah.. He deserves it.. He sucks so bad even Stephon Diggs wanted to get away from him...
I want to make sure we're clear, I was asking for current coaches.
- Bill Parcells is a HoF head coach. If you're saying a HoF coach could possibly get more out of this squad, then... yeah, sure. I would be inclined to agree.
- Tom Coughlan, who was fired from his first gig in Jacksonville, was a head coach who rode the coat-tails of having superior OC/DC's on his staff, including Steve Spagnuolo, who is likely going down as a HoF coach himself. While having having underperforming seasons pretty much marred his coaching career every year but two.
You'll forgive me if that isn't a widely impressive list. If anything, Coughlan would absolutely fit your mold of Stefanski.
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Damn guys, all this Browns losing is making us turn on each other. Let's not drive people out of here, it's sadly becoming a ghost town for who knows what reason(s).
The world would be boring if we all agreed on everything. We're all here for one reason.....our love for the Browns.
Besides another lousy season, the thing that's pissing me off is how AFC teams who were kind of down have turned it around ( Denver, Indianapolis, New England), and here we are talking about tanking, draft picks, & play calling.
My theory is Haslam is giving Berry & Stefanski more time to turn this around because he realizes the DW situation crippled this team far worse than even DePodesta could have imagined (analyzed).
Unless the players totally revolt, they're running everything back in 2026.
I'm in the acceptance stage, even though I hate what's going on. I admit, I was overly-optimistic about 2025 even though I saw the difficult starting schedule. I urge all to join me.
Go Browns.
Karlis Missed -
Folks seem to forget what Parcells tenure with the Jets, Cowboys, and Dolphins actually looked like. Especially when there were issues at QB and injuries in general.
Coughlin last few years (and some in-between years) with the GMen were not exactly stellar when there were roster issues.
Heck, one can also look at BB.
If the argument is that KS could possibly be getting "more" out of the roster the last two years, sure that is possible. But what is that definition of "more"? Based on the roster issues at QB and OL I dont see much more than a couple of wins, and being a few rankings higher then they have been for the offense. It is not like we have seen these teams outright quit (we have seen that in the past), or a bunch of reports of turmoil which typically occurs when confidence within the building (players, coaches, FO) has been lost
This is not to say that perhaps come next year CLE should not turn over the coaching and FO. It may just be time. Even if just based upon the typical nature of the NFL. But much like when folks wanted new ownership, or many of the past coaching/FO turn over, careful what you wish for....
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I know @calfoxwc likes to say dumb shit like "draw up plays to confuse the defense"... Stefanski did early, and it worked. But that isn't something you can do and live by every snap. It isn't realistic. We couldn't win on our weakside iso, we couldn't win on outside zone, and they sat all over high percentage concepts after the 1st qtr. We just don't have the horses to counter adjust. This has been the theme across entire position groups for multiple years - OL, WR's, Dline, LB's...
well, you aRE a dumb shit on a lot of things, just not "Xs" and "Os".
I blasted the play calling, and since you are too arrogant to read it, Shirley Tiam, I'll tell you flat out - Mike Vrabel blasted Stupanskis play calling.
So, you want to say Vrable doesn't know anything, but you are a so called grand poobah of football?
You should STFU once in a while, and yes, you would probably be like Aikman or Collinsworth. Too arrogant to be decent in most conversations.
Guess what I just found:
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CAN WE ALL LEARN SOMETHING FROM THIS PATRIOTS THREAD?
The Patriots haven't been relevant since Brady left. WHY? Quarterback! They drafted 4th last April....after Drake Maye's rookie season. THIS year Maye is showing that he's not a rookie any more...and that he's not Mack Jones.
The Patriots whiffed on the QB selection. So they went back up to the plate and drafted another one. (and then the next draft they drafted an OT)
You've gotta have the QB. We, of any fans, should know this by now. We can take our aggressions out on the HC, GM, Jimmuh, Dee, the son-in-law, DePodesta, whomever ya want...but all the new suits & ties ya wanna bring in aren't going to make much of a difference if they'll be using a midget rookie 3rd round QB and Practice Squad receivers.
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CAN WE ALL LEARN SOMETHING FROM THIS PATRIOTS THREAD?
The Patriots haven't been relevant since Brady left. WHY? Quarterback! They drafted 4th last April....after Drake Maye's rookie season. THIS year Maye is showing that he's not a rookie any more...and that he's not Mack Jones.
The Patriots whiffed on the QB selection. So they went back up to the plate and drafted another one. (and then the next draft they drafted an OT)
You've gotta have the QB. We, of any fans, should know this by now. We can take our aggressions out on the HC, GM, Jimmuh, Dee, the son-in-law, DePodesta, whomever ya want...but all the new suits & ties ya wanna bring in aren't going to make much of a difference if they'll be using a midget rookie 3rd round QB and Practice Squad receivers.
CAN WE ALL LEARN SOMETHING FROM THIS PATRIOTS THREAD?
The Patriots haven't been relevant since Brady left. WHY? Quarterback! They drafted 4th last April....after Drake Maye's rookie season. THIS year Maye is showing that he's not a rookie any more...and that he's not Mack Jones.
The Patriots whiffed on the QB selection. So they went back up to the plate and drafted another one. (and then the next draft they drafted an OT)
You've gotta have the QB. We, of any fans, should know this by now. We can take our aggressions out on the HC, GM, Jimmuh, Dee, the son-in-law, DePodesta, whomever ya want...but all the new suits & ties ya wanna bring in aren't going to make much of a difference if they'll be using a midget rookie 3rd round QB and Practice Squad receivers.
While a bit of exaggeration on the WRs (at least last year and this), all well said.
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CAN WE ALL LEARN SOMETHING FROM THIS PATRIOTS THREAD?
The Patriots haven't been relevant since Brady left. WHY? Quarterback! They drafted 4th last April....after Drake Maye's rookie season. THIS year Maye is showing that he's not a rookie any more...and that he's not Mack Jones.
The Patriots whiffed on the QB selection. So they went back up to the plate and drafted another one. (and then the next draft they drafted an OT)
You've gotta have the QB. We, of any fans, should know this by now. We can take our aggressions out on the HC, GM, Jimmuh, Dee, the son-in-law, DePodesta, whomever ya want...but all the new suits & ties ya wanna bring in aren't going to make much of a difference if they'll be using a midget rookie 3rd round QB and Practice Squad receivers.
While a bit of exaggeration on the WRs (at least last year and this), all well said.
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