Pregame: Ravens (4-1) at Browns (3-2), Week 6 · Sun, 10/18, 1:00 PM EDT

GameDay

BALRavens4-1

Sun, 10/18, 1:00 PM EDT

CLEBrowns3-2

The score and stats go live here when the game starts, and the thread stays up after the final.

Pick'em Week 6 5 members have picked

Sign in to pick the winner and the score. Picks lock at kickoff, Sun, Oct 18, 1:00 PM ET.

How scoring works

Right winner earns your confidence, wrong winner costs it. The score adds a bonus by how many points off your two numbers are combined: exact +10, within 3 +5, within 7 +3, within 14 +1. Standings run all season, playoffs included, and the top 3 get badges.

Season standings

Projected starters

From the depth chart, not the official inactives.

CLE Offense

QB Deshaun Watson
RB Quinshon Judkins
FB Michael Burton
WR Denzel Boston
WR KC Concepcion
WR Jerry Jeudy
TE Harold Fannin Jr.
LT Spencer Fano
LG Zion Johnson
C Elgton Jenkins
RG Austin Barber
RT Tytus Howard

CLE Defense

LDE Isaiah McGuire
LDT Mason Graham
RDT Maliek Collins
RDE Jared Verse
WLB Easton Mascarenas-Arnold
MLB Carson Schwesinger
SLB Quincy Williams
LCB Denzel Ward
RCB Tyson Campbell
NB Myles Harden
SS Grant Delpit
FS Ronnie Hickman

BAL Offense

QB Lamar Jackson
RB Derrick Henry
WR Zay Flowers
WR Rashod Bateman
WR Devontez Walker
TE Mark Andrews
LT Ronnie Stanley
LG John Simpson
C Cam Jurgens
RG Olaivavega Ioane
RT Roger Rosengarten

BAL Defense

LDE Nnamdi Madubuike
NT Travis Jones
RDE Calais Campbell
WLB Tavius Robinson
LILB Roquan Smith
RILB Trenton Simpson
SLB Trey Hendrickson
LCB Nate Wiggins
RCB Marlon Humphrey
NB Kyle Hamilton
SS Jaylinn Hawkins
FS Malaki Starks

Injury report

CLE Injuries

Teven Jenkins G · Out
Mike Hall Jr. DT · Out
Dylan Sampson RB · Injured Reserve
Quinshon Judkins RB · Questionable
Carson Schwesinger LB · Questionable · Sprain

BAL Injuries

Ja'Kobi Lane WR · Injured Reserve · Surgery
Broderick Washington Jr. DT · Out
Cam Jurgens C · Out · Concussion
Lamar Jackson QB · Out · Sprain
Matt Hibner TE · Out

Sunday, October 18 at 1:00 PM EDT · Huntington Bank Field, Cleveland · Fox · 57°F · Line BAL -3 · O/U 39.5

syd · Sun, 10/18, 1:00 PM EDT

@GameDay said:
Carson Schwesinger LB · Questionable · Sprain
Quinshon Judkins RB · Questionable
KC Concepcion WR · Questionable · Concussion
Raheim Sanders RB · Questionable
Tytus Howard OT · Questionable

yikes

jrb12711

Hey- I'm finally back in! I even tried making a new account that never got approved. Hope everyone is doing well.

The Jets exposed the reality of Watson that for some reason teams weren't implementing (or didn't have the personnel) to do. Simply, blitz the dude and he's not, and never has in a Browns uniform, seen the field well enough to recover. This was his problem in Houston too, but he was hyper athletic to make it look okay. You can still see in small flashes, but not enough to overcome. The guy runs into more sacks than any other QB in the league. The ravens have the personnel to do exactly what the Jets did.

Don't feel great about this one, but happy to at least be competitive. Thought for sure they'd be 1-4 going into this game. To be honest, if the Browns show competitive spirit and Watson clearly shows no long-term impact (i.e. trading up for a QB), I'm glad to at least be able to have hope and a reason to watch past week 6 this year. Got a lot of winnable games before the bye week.

syd

yesterday sucked , Bailey was just killing our tackles, we should have gone to a 12 personal to help us run time off the clock before that awesome attempt at a punt,also munken why are you passing the ball at that point in the game, the weather was shit and we should have been trying to take time off the clock, hopefully we will see better things come this sunday

Bob806

@syd said:
yesterday sucked , Bailey was just killing our tackles, we should have gone to a 12 personal to help us run time off the clock before that awesome attempt at a punt,also munken why are you passing the ball at that point in the game, the weather was shit and we should have been trying to take time off the clock, hopefully we will see better things come this sunday

It's almost as if they give up on the run game too soon, or they realize that this new line just isn't capable of running the ball at the pro level consistently. They aren't so hot in the passing game either.

I figured the O line would take time to gel but perhaps it's just not going to be good enough. They still have 5 games to go before the BYE, against some good defenses.

syd

Browns add another former Broncos RB with Quinshon Judkins hurt, reportedly www.dawgsbynature.com
9m

Dutch Oven

Care to speak about why it is harder to consistently run from shotgun compared to under the center @tiamat63?

I'm looking forward to having a QB who can play under center again. Watson never figured it out, and it doesn't appear he ever will.

Ibleedbrown

@Dutch-Oven said:
Care to speak about why it is harder to consistently run from shotgun compared to under the center @tiamat63?
I'm looking forward to having a QB who can play under center again. Watson never figured it out, and it doesn't appear he ever will.

What’s that old saying about old dogs turning tricks?

There was a news story down this way about Joe Burrow having the same problem. It was a matter of formation vs. success rate, and he does way better out of the shotgun formation. It could be that it’s the best bet when it comes to passing play value.

I’d be real curious what the stats say league wide on this.

Flugel

@Bob806 said:
It's almost as if they give up on the run game too soon, or they realize that this new line just isn't capable of running the ball at the pro level consistently. They aren't so hot in the passing game either.

I figured the O line would take time to gel but perhaps it's just not going to be good enough. They still have 5 games to go before the BYE, against some good defenses.

When it comes to OL, love takes time. We turned a wide eyed rookie that played LT at Florida last year into a RG this year. We've already seen 2 different guys starting at Center albeit due to an injury to the starter 1 week. At LT, we took a guy in the 1st round that his college team prefered to play him at RT (the guy that started there at LT is only a rookie backup for NE at this time). Now we have 3 veteran starters from elsewhere that we brought in during the off-season: RT Tytus Howard, C Elgton Jenkins and LG Zion Johnson. I'm not impressed yet and I don't think they offer a lot of upside. That said, it

I'll give eveyone the same excuse though - time is needed to gel. Here's where it gets tricky to me as a fan that played OG in high school back in BC (Before Cellphones). If someone isn't pulling their weight to make a good chemistry possible - do we start a Dawand Jones over a Tytus Howard at RT? Is it too early? This is where Warhop and Monken will make thei experience-based decision and live with the results. Another option, Barber was a LT because he's a great athlete (that also played basketball in hs) - would RT be wok better for him than Tytus (who also played OG in on his last team). OG puts Tytus in tighter space that might not be nearly as troublesome.

Not for nothing, I thought Luke Wypler looked outstanding vs Pittsburgh filling in at Center. Having said that, I was also drinking cold beers from frosted mugs so maybe @tiamat63 or someone else has a more accurate summay than I did. Wypler's biggest problem to date as a 6th round pick was reliable vetean Ethan Pocic was brought here with a much heftier contract; so any opportunities to fill-in for an injured starter meant he couldn't afford to get injured (but he did more than once). That all makes it no surprise Browns used a 5th round pick to draft Alabama C Parker Brailsford; so by all means stay tuned

What we're going through is an inevitable combination of growing pains in that we have 5 band new starters at each position here on the OL. The challenge is when is it time to replace an ineffective starter or move him to another position? I'm no help here - I'm just sharing my thoughts. All this said, the team is 3-2 so we'll soon find out what fate determines here.

tiamat63

@Dutch-Oven said:
Care to speak about why it is harder to consistently run from shotgun compared to under the center @tiamat63?
I'm looking forward to having a QB who can play under center again. Watson never figured it out, and it doesn't appear he ever will.

Depends on the gun formation. Mostly spacing/timing issues. Under center your running game has a bit more dynamic direction as well. In gun, 95% of runs begin by opening laterally and the bulk of coaches know that offset SC means you want the (we call it) flow side B gap. There's also the penchant for wanting a more athletic QB if you're focusing on a ground based shotgun game. The last is desire to get defenses into nickel/dime as gun pairs well/most often with 11p. If defenses don't oblige, or with what we're seeing lately - callling/stemming into more odd fronts, it has a disproportionate effect against gun based offenses.

tiamat63

@Flugel said:
Having said that, I was also drinking cold beers from frosted so maybe @tiamat63 or someone else has a more summay than I did. His biggest problem to date as a 6th round pick was Pocic was brought here with a much heftier contract; so any opportunities to fill-in for an injured starter meant he couldn't afford to get injured (but he did more than once).

I'll work on a piece for Wypler sometime this weekend. Right now I've got The Browns offense vs Baltimore DEF on deck, a mid-season review for Julian Sayin & then Makai Lemon coming down the pipe. But I'll sneak in some Wypler time and report back.

Flugel

@tiamat63 said:
I'll work on a piece for Wypler sometime this weekend. Right now I've got The Browns offense vs Baltimore DEF on deck, a mid-season review for Julian Sayin & then Makai Lemon coming down the pipe. But I'll sneak in some Wypler time and report back.

Thanks! I didn't realize how sloppy I was with all the typos so I went back and edited it some to make it more readable. Not only that, the R key on the laptop doesn't work half the time so it looks like my posts are coming from Elmer Fudd...

tiamat63

Looking at coverage structures for Baltimore and their injury report. We're going to run into a lot of familiar issues the rest of this year, similar to the back half of Stefanksis tenure - Ravens play, while not as much cover 2, but a lot of 2 hi structures the Jets did. They also have beef in the middle of their IDL.

Unless you can find a way through or around it, this offense is going to stall out mid drive or redzone like last week. Friendly elements might mean SOME better play, but likely not winning difference better. If Lamar is back, Baltimore -4.5 Likely the same even if he isn't.

calfoxwc

The Jets seem to have blitzed a LOT, knowing that twatson is slow to read. They knew to cover the run, to put even more stress on twatson, knowing he has always tended to scramble because he can do that without thinking.....while not putting the usual emphasis on pass coverage at times. When the qb is stupid, the defense will play games to warp his brain. Graham and Schlesinger on the injured list will hurt the defense, at a time when they have to probably face Lamar Jackson and Derrick Henry. I don't see a win here for the Browns.

Dutch Oven

@calfoxwc Man, Baker must be a complete MAGA-level moron, because he lost to Watson

tiamat63

We'll be going over the Week 4, #BaltimoreRavens DEF vs the #TennesseeTitans matchup tonight (Thursday) in the RT9 discord at 7:45pm EST.

As the #Browns are getting ready for their first game of the year vs BLT, we're looking to see what defensive similarities we'll find between the Ravens and the #NYJets And how those might translate to the game on Sunday.

As usual, this is a 'rough draft' session, hosted at the RT9 discord linked below. All are welcomed to come in, talk shop, ask questions, say their piece or just quietly watch along. But it's a sort of 'behind the scenes' on how the work is done when I chart.

But most importantly it helps to build that 'hang out' community that I think is so important and built around the game of Football.

https://discord.gg/YMhVcH9jE

Canton Dawg

I look for Henry to have a good day running the ball. The Browns are only mid (#18) at rush defense.

syd

@Canton-Dawg said:
I look for Henry to have a good day running the ball. The Browns are only mid (#18) at rush defense.

having Grahm back will help