Its not the coaching..
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Correction here: Mangini was not hired because of his "Vision", he was hired because he and Randy were buddies back in the 90's when Mangini was a ballboy here and Randy's dad Al had close ties to Modell. Randy hung around the team a lot during those years and grew a tight relationship with Mangini. How else can anyone explain a more ridiculous hire than this? I have some relationships with people in the know and this story has been confirmed by multiple sources. It may be speculation, but it's pretty solid speculation.
Do me a favor - look at our coaching staff. Outside of Ryan, Bryan Cox and Brad Seely these guys are a bunch of buffoons. For example, look at this guy:
Andy Dickerson
Quality control/defense; born January 29, 1982, Wilmington, Del. Offensive lineman Tufts 1999-2002. No pro playing experience. College coach: Tufts 2003. Pro coach: New York Jets 2006-2008, joined Browns in 2009.
An offensive lineman for powerful Tufts. It doesn't list his 'intership' with NE in 2004-2005, but come on - THIS is the quality we have on our coaching staff? How does an OL for the TUFTS JUMBOS (yes - their nickname is the freakin' JUMBOS - with colors of light blue and brown they look like fairy-boys) become a defensive coach for us?
Lerner is a moron and every single move he has made lately is financial. This coaching staff probably makes less than the guys playing sax on the corner by the stadium....
F'IN PITIFUL.....
Tufts.
Are you kidding me?
I wouldn't play for this group of coaches either.
Gooooooo Jumbos!
Yeah, that'd be like Ted Marchibroda taking on an assistant who was a center at Wesleyan University in Connecticut... Wesleyan! Gooo Cardinals!! What the hell does that have to do with anything? Because a guy went to a small school he can't be a football coach?
-jj
Yeah, that'd be like Ted Marchibroda taking on an assistant who was a center at Wesleyan University in Connecticut... Wesleyan! Gooo Cardinals!! What the hell does that have to do with anything? Because a guy went to a small school he can't be a football coach?
-jj
Fair enough. But my point isn't that he's from a small school, it's that he doesn't belong in the position he is in. And comparing Manini to Marchibroda is ludicrous.
I have a beef with this tool in particular because I sat in front of the home coaches box yesterday and had enough by the beginning of the 4th quarter. So I turned around and laid into the coaches box. From the play calling to the lack of preparedness to the unemotional and uninspired play, it is a reflection of the coaches. Correct me if you think differently, but as I vented I fully expected the coaches box to maintain their focus on the game and not look down at me. But this coach decides to look down with a full faced smile and tilt his head from side to side like a clown. Shouldn't he be more interested in the game than me?
I may have been voistrous, but never vulgar. If I had been security would have kicked my butt out. Instead, everyone in the section was cheering along with me. Jim Donovan gave me a thumbs-up and Diek mentioned my voistrous displeasure in the radio broadcast. As I exited security guards and fans alike were giving me high-fives because they're all as fed up as I am.
He is supposed to be a coach. As well as another 'coach' in the third row of their box who scratched his head like a monkey as he looked down to me. I couldn't find him on the asst coaches tab so he might just be a coffee-getter so I'll let him go. But the other guy was sitting up front with headset on and all and he's paying attention to me? Come on - he SHOULD have more important things to pay attention to. Like his players and how to get the most out of them...
My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.
CHANGE IS GOOD -
I agree we settled on Mangini and thats the problem ......
I think a lot of you people are delusional who think Gruden or Shanahan or Cowher were lining up to take this job or will line up to take this job if Mangini gets shit-canned.
The roster was a joke. And Cleveland is not exactly the most desirable NFL city to set up shop. Any three of those guys can sit in studio jobs until the perfect situation comes around. Like Carolina (Cowher) or Jacksonville (Gruden). Shanahan is getting paid a ton NOT to coach! He has a tremendous ego, but he's also smart enough to realize he's got a clearer path in Washington in a city more suitable to his tastes.
Nobody who has options is going to select THIS Job.
It was Mangini or a first-time head coach who wasn't a hot candidate (like Crennel) or a college guy. And we aren't talking Urban Meyer.
I think a lot of you people are delusional who think Gruden or Shanahan or Cowher were lining up to take this job or will line up to take this job if Mangini gets shit-canned.
The roster was a joke. And Cleveland is not exactly the most desirable NFL city to set up shop. Any three of those guys can sit in studio jobs until the perfect situation comes around. Like Carolina (Cowher) or Jacksonville (Gruden). Shanahan is getting paid a ton NOT to coach! He has a tremendous ego, but he's also smart enough to realize he's got a clearer path in Washington in a city more suitable to his tastes.
Nobody who has options is going to select THIS Job.
It was Mangini or a first-time head coach who wasn't a hot candidate (like Crennel) or a college guy. And we aren't talking Urban Meyer.
Why do we need only Gruden or Shanahan or Cowher ? How many head coaching jobs are there in the NFL ? Trust me we are not as bad as we assume ourselves to be. And many will queue up for the jobs. We just need to be patient enough to interview ALL OF THEM before making a decision.
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Yeah, that'd be like Ted Marchibroda taking on an assistant who was a center at Wesleyan University in Connecticut... Wesleyan! Gooo Cardinals!! What the hell does that have to do with anything? Because a guy went to a small school he can't be a football coach?
-jj
Fair enough. But my point isn't that he's from a small school, it's that he doesn't belong in the position he is in. And comparing Manini to Marchibroda is ludicrous.
I have a beef with this tool in particular because I sat in front of the home coaches box yesterday and had enough by the beginning of the 4th quarter. So I turned around and laid into the coaches box. From the play calling to the lack of preparedness to the unemotional and uninspired play, it is a reflection of the coaches. Correct me if you think differently, but as I vented I fully expected the coaches box to maintain their focus on the game and not look down at me. But this coach decides to look down with a full faced smile and tilt his head from side to side like a clown. Shouldn't he be more interested in the game than me?
I may have been voistrous, but never vulgar. If I had been security would have kicked my butt out. Instead, everyone in the section was cheering along with me. Jim Donovan gave me a thumbs-up and Diek mentioned my voistrous displeasure in the radio broadcast. As I exited security guards and fans alike were giving me high-fives because they're all as fed up as I am.
He is supposed to be a coach. As well as another 'coach' in the third row of their box who scratched his head like a monkey as he looked down to me. I couldn't find him on the asst coaches tab so he might just be a coffee-getter so I'll let him go. But the other guy was sitting up front with headset on and all and he's paying attention to me? Come on - he SHOULD have more important things to pay attention to. Like his players and how to get the most out of them...
My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.
My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.
There is no tree .... HE is a lone guy who managed to achieve success by putting his system in place and that is something no body else has succeeded in. The one man who seems to have succeed as his pupil Josh McDaniels has nothing in common with BB. HE gets excited, shows passion and does not get overly secretive.
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Still believe it is talent despite some good arguments.
If you have 4th and 1 what play can you call and KNOW that the offensive line will create a hole to get that yard? There is no play because the O line cannot knock people off the line of scrimmage. Lack of talent
If you have 3rd and 10 what passing play are you going to call and KNOW that you will pick it up? There isn't one because the receivers do not get open dependably and the QBs may not get them the ball. Lack of talent at QB and experience (I hope) in the case of wide receivers
If you have 3rd and 5 what play do you run and have a high percentage chance of obtaining that first down? There isn't one Lack of talent
Who can you throw the ball to and know that he will come up with the reception if you get the ball close? Nobody Lack of Talent and experience
On defense players are in position to make plays and they are missing tackles after receptions. Our defensive backs (CBs and Safeties) lack the physical ability or toughness to make tackles on running backs and anyone else except a QB. Lack of talent and toughness
We do not get dependable pressure on the QB although there has been significant improvement this year Lack of talent but we have improved
Tackling by linebackers is a problem. They are often in position to make plays and simply cannot make the tackle or make it far down field. Lack of talent Coaching could be partly responsible for them making tackles too far down field
If the players cannot execute the simple fundamentals of blocking (knocking their guy off the ball), passing, catching, tackling you don't have much chance. We need football players that absolutely hate to lose and coaches that absolutely hate to lose. I know mangini hates to lose and if any of his assistants don't feel the same way they will be canned.
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Yeah, that'd be like Ted Marchibroda taking on an assistant who was a center at Wesleyan University in Connecticut... Wesleyan! Gooo Cardinals!! What the hell does that have to do with anything? Because a guy went to a small school he can't be a football coach?
-jj
Fair enough. But my point isn't that he's from a small school, it's that he doesn't belong in the position he is in. And comparing Manini to Marchibroda is ludicrous.
I have a beef with this tool in particular because I sat in front of the home coaches box yesterday and had enough by the beginning of the 4th quarter. So I turned around and laid into the coaches box. From the play calling to the lack of preparedness to the unemotional and uninspired play, it is a reflection of the coaches. Correct me if you think differently, but as I vented I fully expected the coaches box to maintain their focus on the game and not look down at me. But this coach decides to look down with a full faced smile and tilt his head from side to side like a clown. Shouldn't he be more interested in the game than me?
I may have been voistrous, but never vulgar. If I had been security would have kicked my butt out. Instead, everyone in the section was cheering along with me. Jim Donovan gave me a thumbs-up and Diek mentioned my voistrous displeasure in the radio broadcast. As I exited security guards and fans alike were giving me high-fives because they're all as fed up as I am.
He is supposed to be a coach. As well as another 'coach' in the third row of their box who scratched his head like a monkey as he looked down to me. I couldn't find him on the asst coaches tab so he might just be a coffee-getter so I'll let him go. But the other guy was sitting up front with headset on and all and he's paying attention to me? Come on - he SHOULD have more important things to pay attention to. Like his players and how to get the most out of them...
My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.
Fair enough. But my point isn't that he's from a small school, it's that he doesn't belong in the position he is in. And comparing Manini to Marchibroda is ludicrous.
I have a beef with this tool in particular because I sat in front of the home coaches box yesterday and had enough by the beginning of the 4th quarter. So I turned around and laid into the coaches box. From the play calling to the lack of preparedness to the unemotional and uninspired play, it is a reflection of the coaches. Correct me if you think differently, but as I vented I fully expected the coaches box to maintain their focus on the game and not look down at me. But this coach decides to look down with a full faced smile and tilt his head from side to side like a clown. Shouldn't he be more interested in the game than me?
I may have been voistrous, but never vulgar. If I had been security would have kicked my butt out. Instead, everyone in the section was cheering along with me. Jim Donovan gave me a thumbs-up and Diek mentioned my voistrous displeasure in the radio broadcast. As I exited security guards and fans alike were giving me high-fives because they're all as fed up as I am.
He is supposed to be a coach. As well as another 'coach' in the third row of their box who scratched his head like a monkey as he looked down to me. I couldn't find him on the asst coaches tab so he might just be a coffee-getter so I'll let him go. But the other guy was sitting up front with headset on and all and he's paying attention to me? Come on - he SHOULD have more important things to pay attention to. Like his players and how to get the most out of them...
My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.
In fairness, I wasn't comparing Marchibroda to Mangini. I was comparing Bill Belichik to Andy Dickerson... which is twice as preposterous. My point being coaches come from all over. And great players rarely make great coaches. It's just a different skill set.
And, should they be more concerned about other things? Probably. But when you're getting your ass handed to you, you were probably a welcome diversion. I've been in that box before (well, not that box, but the coaching box). When you're getting mauled like that, it's all you can do to maintain your sanity. A bit of levity is probably a good thing. At least they weren't flinging themselves out the windows or punching each other. But that kind of thing usually only happens when the coordinators are upstairs.
The Browns have one of those situations where the OC and DC are on the sideline and the assistants are upstairs. Some guys like it the other way. In the Browns case they've got a couple of special assistants, I'm sure, and a few pro personnel people. And that's probably about it. They run the field like an officiating crew, each guy with a different set of responsibilities usually by position or area. They are information retrievers not game-planners or decision-makers. So, your rant while it may have some substance, is misdirected. It be like running into a Chevrolet dealership and berating the guy because your GM stock is in the tank. He doesn't have anything to do with it. He just works there.
Regardless, as far as they're concerned, you have no idea what you're talking about. Actually, they don't even hear what you're saying. Coaches are funny that way. They don't take criticism from non-coaches. They just sort of block it out. I don't say that for effect. They're really not hearing your words. They just know that there's a crazy guy yelling at them. It's the same thing you would do if someone stood outside your office window yelling about what a lousy job you were doing. You could easily make faces out the window and still do your job... probably.
Coaching is a job. Fans don't always get that. The fans live their lives, build up their own stresses and get all wound up until Sunday afternoon, and go crazy for their team. For the guys in the booth, this is the last 3 hours of a 70 or 80 hour work week. To them football is a process, not an event. Fans have this opinion that coaches should be these hyper-intense stress factories squeezing bits of coal into diamonds on every 3rd and 4, when actually it's a lot more systematic than that... especially among low level assistants, scouts, and spotters. Let's be realistic here... they play a game for a living. They basically move playing pieces around a board for a few hours every Sunday... after practicing it over and over again all week. It's like being a professional Risk player. There's just not nearly as much stress in the coaching booth as there is in the stands. And when you're getting beaten like a drum there's even less. If a guy breaks focus in a 31-3 game, I'm pretty sure it won't change the outcome. If he bothered to acknowledge you in a 27-24 game, I'd be surprised.
That's not to say that your opinion's not valid. In fact, I probably agree with you in many respects. But, the coaches assume anyone addressing them about football who isn't wearing a snappy polo with team colors on it is among the 99% of fans who hasn't a clue what goes into putting a prepared football team on the field... especially if they're yelling it through a window. Now, in fairness... you don't have to spend 80 hours a week studying tape to go 1-6 and be lose by 3 touchdowns every week. You could take Wednesday and Thursday off every week and do that. It's the old, "You don't need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Take a look at my cousin: he's broke, don't do shit."
But even so, the fact that they engaged you - albeit mockingly - says nothing to me about them as a person or as a coach.
And to your point of 'scraping up' what's left of the Belichick coaches. There are always new coaches. And you don't really want everyone to have a homogeneous background. So I wouldn't be too worried about that.
-jj
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Fair enough. But my point isn't that he's from a small school, it's that he doesn't belong in the position he is in. And comparing Manini to Marchibroda is ludicrous.
I have a beef with this tool in particular because I sat in front of the home coaches box yesterday and had enough by the beginning of the 4th quarter. So I turned around and laid into the coaches box. From the play calling to the lack of preparedness to the unemotional and uninspired play, it is a reflection of the coaches. Correct me if you think differently, but as I vented I fully expected the coaches box to maintain their focus on the game and not look down at me. But this coach decides to look down with a full faced smile and tilt his head from side to side like a clown. Shouldn't he be more interested in the game than me?
I may have been voistrous, but never vulgar. If I had been security would have kicked my butt out. Instead, everyone in the section was cheering along with me. Jim Donovan gave me a thumbs-up and Diek mentioned my voistrous displeasure in the radio broadcast. As I exited security guards and fans alike were giving me high-fives because they're all as fed up as I am.
He is supposed to be a coach. As well as another 'coach' in the third row of their box who scratched his head like a monkey as he looked down to me. I couldn't find him on the asst coaches tab so he might just be a coffee-getter so I'll let him go. But the other guy was sitting up front with headset on and all and he's paying attention to me? Come on - he SHOULD have more important things to pay attention to. Like his players and how to get the most out of them...
My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.
In fairness, I wasn't comparing Marchibroda to Mangini. I was comparing Bill Belichik to Andy Dickerson... which is twice as preposterous. My point being coaches come from all over. And great players rarely make great coaches. It's just a different skill set.
And, should they be more concerned about other things? Probably. But when you're getting your ass handed to you, you were probably a welcome diversion. I've been in that box before (well, not that box, but the coaching box). When you're getting mauled like that, it's all you can do to maintain your sanity. A bit of levity is probably a good thing. At least they weren't flinging themselves out the windows or punching each other. But that kind of thing usually only happens when the coordinators are upstairs.
The Browns have one of those situations where the OC and DC are on the sideline and the assistants are upstairs. Some guys like it the other way. In the Browns case they've got a couple of special assistants, I'm sure, and a few pro personnel people. And that's probably about it. They run the field like an officiating crew, each guy with a different set of responsibilities usually by position or area. They are information retrievers not game-planners or decision-makers. So, your rant while it may have some substance, is misdirected. It be like running into a Chevrolet dealership and berating the guy because your GM stock is in the tank. He doesn't have anything to do with it. He just works there.
Regardless, as far as they're concerned, you have no idea what you're talking about. Actually, they don't even hear what you're saying. Coaches are funny that way. They don't take criticism from non-coaches. They just sort of block it out. I don't say that for effect. They're really not hearing your words. They just know that there's a crazy guy yelling at them. It's the same thing you would do if someone stood outside your office window yelling about what a lousy job you were doing. You could easily make faces out the window and still do your job... probably.
Coaching is a job. Fans don't always get that. The fans live their lives, build up their own stresses and get all wound up until Sunday afternoon, and go crazy for their team. For the guys in the booth, this is the last 3 hours of a 70 or 80 hour work week. To them football is a process, not an event. Fans have this opinion that coaches should be these hyper-intense stress factories squeezing bits of coal into diamonds on every 3rd and 4, when actually it's a lot more systematic than that... especially among low level assistants, scouts, and spotters. Let's be realistic here... they play a game for a living. They basically move playing pieces around a board for a few hours every Sunday... after practicing it over and over again all week. It's like being a professional Risk player. There's just not nearly as much stress in the coaching booth as there is in the stands. And when you're getting beaten like a drum there's even less. If a guy breaks focus in a 31-3 game, I'm pretty sure it won't change the outcome. If he bothered to acknowledge you in a 27-24 game, I'd be surprised.
That's not to say that your opinion's not valid. In fact, I probably agree with you in many respects. But, the coaches assume anyone addressing them about football who isn't wearing a snappy polo with team colors on it is among the 99% of fans who hasn't a clue what goes into putting a prepared football team on the field... especially if they're yelling it through a window. Now, in fairness... you don't have to spend 80 hours a week studying tape to go 1-6 and be lose by 3 touchdowns every week. You could take Wednesday and Thursday off every week and do that. It's the old, "You don't need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Take a look at my cousin: he's broke, don't do shit."
But even so, the fact that they engaged you - albeit mockingly - says nothing to me about them as a person or as a coach.
And to your point of 'scraping up' what's left of the Belichick coaches. There are always new coaches. And you don't really want everyone to have a homogeneous background. So I wouldn't be too worried about that.
-jj
And to your point of 'scraping up' what's left of the Belichick coaches. There are always new coaches. And you don't really want everyone to have a homogeneous background. So I wouldn't be too worried about that.
-jj
Geez. I wish I could remember the guys name... he wasn't a head coach but wound up as an assistant and was, at least once, considered for a head coaching position. Bill Walsh apparently thought he was one of few people who really grasped the intricacies of the West Coast offense. The guy, a lawyer, contacted somebody with the team (SF 49ers) because he'd once played football, and asked if they could use somebody to play catch with the QBs. He did it on a lark. To his surprise, they found something for him to do. Later, they promoted him to QB coach. He was constantly surprised that they kept giving him jobs, and was fully prepared to go back to a law practice. He just kept moving on up the coaching ladder. I heard this story, in great detail, from the lawyer/coach's best friend.
My point? I agree, there are always new coaches. Furthermore, they can come from anywhere.
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Fair enough. But my point isn't that he's from a small school, it's that he doesn't belong in the position he is in. And comparing Manini to Marchibroda is ludicrous.
I have a beef with this tool in particular because I sat in front of the home coaches box yesterday and had enough by the beginning of the 4th quarter. So I turned around and laid into the coaches box. From the play calling to the lack of preparedness to the unemotional and uninspired play, it is a reflection of the coaches. Correct me if you think differently, but as I vented I fully expected the coaches box to maintain their focus on the game and not look down at me. But this coach decides to look down with a full faced smile and tilt his head from side to side like a clown. Shouldn't he be more interested in the game than me?
I may have been voistrous, but never vulgar. If I had been security would have kicked my butt out. Instead, everyone in the section was cheering along with me. Jim Donovan gave me a thumbs-up and Diek mentioned my voistrous displeasure in the radio broadcast. As I exited security guards and fans alike were giving me high-fives because they're all as fed up as I am.
He is supposed to be a coach. As well as another 'coach' in the third row of their box who scratched his head like a monkey as he looked down to me. I couldn't find him on the asst coaches tab so he might just be a coffee-getter so I'll let him go. But the other guy was sitting up front with headset on and all and he's paying attention to me? Come on - he SHOULD have more important things to pay attention to. Like his players and how to get the most out of them...
My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.
In fairness, I wasn't comparing Marchibroda to Mangini. I was comparing Bill Belichik to Andy Dickerson... which is twice as preposterous. My point being coaches come from all over. And great players rarely make great coaches. It's just a different skill set.
And, should they be more concerned about other things? Probably. But when you're getting your ass handed to you, you were probably a welcome diversion. I've been in that box before (well, not that box, but the coaching box). When you're getting mauled like that, it's all you can do to maintain your sanity. A bit of levity is probably a good thing. At least they weren't flinging themselves out the windows or punching each other. But that kind of thing usually only happens when the coordinators are upstairs.
The Browns have one of those situations where the OC and DC are on the sideline and the assistants are upstairs. Some guys like it the other way. In the Browns case they've got a couple of special assistants, I'm sure, and a few pro personnel people. And that's probably about it. They run the field like an officiating crew, each guy with a different set of responsibilities usually by position or area. They are information retrievers not game-planners or decision-makers. So, your rant while it may have some substance, is misdirected. It be like running into a Chevrolet dealership and berating the guy because your GM stock is in the tank. He doesn't have anything to do with it. He just works there.
Regardless, as far as they're concerned, you have no idea what you're talking about. Actually, they don't even hear what you're saying. Coaches are funny that way. They don't take criticism from non-coaches. They just sort of block it out. I don't say that for effect. They're really not hearing your words. They just know that there's a crazy guy yelling at them. It's the same thing you would do if someone stood outside your office window yelling about what a lousy job you were doing. You could easily make faces out the window and still do your job... probably.
Coaching is a job. Fans don't always get that. The fans live their lives, build up their own stresses and get all wound up until Sunday afternoon, and go crazy for their team. For the guys in the booth, this is the last 3 hours of a 70 or 80 hour work week. To them football is a process, not an event. Fans have this opinion that coaches should be these hyper-intense stress factories squeezing bits of coal into diamonds on every 3rd and 4, when actually it's a lot more systematic than that... especially among low level assistants, scouts, and spotters. Let's be realistic here... they play a game for a living. They basically move playing pieces around a board for a few hours every Sunday... after practicing it over and over again all week. It's like being a professional Risk player. There's just not nearly as much stress in the coaching booth as there is in the stands. And when you're getting beaten like a drum there's even less. If a guy breaks focus in a 31-3 game, I'm pretty sure it won't change the outcome. If he bothered to acknowledge you in a 27-24 game, I'd be surprised.
That's not to say that your opinion's not valid. In fact, I probably agree with you in many respects. But, the coaches assume anyone addressing them about football who isn't wearing a snappy polo with team colors on it is among the 99% of fans who hasn't a clue what goes into putting a prepared football team on the field... especially if they're yelling it through a window. Now, in fairness... you don't have to spend 80 hours a week studying tape to go 1-6 and be lose by 3 touchdowns every week. You could take Wednesday and Thursday off every week and do that. It's the old, "You don't need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Take a look at my cousin: he's broke, don't do shit."
But even so, the fact that they engaged you - albeit mockingly - says nothing to me about them as a person or as a coach.
And to your point of 'scraping up' what's left of the Belichick coaches. There are always new coaches. And you don't really want everyone to have a homogeneous background. So I wouldn't be too worried about that.
-jj
They are information retrievers not game-planners or decision-makers. So, your rant while it may have some substance, is misdirected. It be like running into a Chevrolet dealership and berating the guy because your GM stock is in the tank. He doesn't have anything to do with it. He just works there.
Good points, all. The truth about the rant wasn't necessarily at them, it was more about the lack of focus and uninspired play on the field. I know these guys in the booth aren't decision makers and probably know how to chart things better than actually coach.
But as a fan there are only two areas of the stadium where you can take out frustrations and direct them at those running the team: Sections 309-310 (where I was) in front of the home coaches box and the radio broadcast crew or in sections 125-127 - directly in front of Lerner's loge.
This is why I directed my attention there, and sometimes we as fans need to show more disdain and ferver while at the stadium. We need to show the team and the organization.....and LERNER that what they are doing is unacceptable. Period.
Impact can be made as tonight on the Point After show when Donovan and Dieken made specific mention of my disdain and displeasure as I ranted right in front of their booth. They made points that the fans are growing increasingly upset
It's time to stand up and stand against this ownership regime.
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i get what you're saying and i agree with you to some extent. however you must look at how those players got here to begin with and THAT is the coaches fault. it is also the coach's fault that they call stupid plays that don't work.
i get what you're saying and i agree with you to some extent. however you must look at how those players got here to begin with and THAT is the coaches fault. it is also the coach's fault that they call stupid plays that don't work.
At a certain point..it's not the playcalling it's the execution of that play.. that's the players.
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They are information retrievers not game-planners or decision-makers. So, your rant while it may have some substance, is misdirected. It be like running into a Chevrolet dealership and berating the guy because your GM stock is in the tank. He doesn't have anything to do with it. He just works there.
Good points, all. The truth about the rant wasn't necessarily at them, it was more about the lack of focus and uninspired play on the field. I know these guys in the booth aren't decision makers and probably know how to chart things better than actually coach.
But as a fan there are only two areas of the stadium where you can take out frustrations and direct them at those running the team: Sections 309-310 (where I was) in front of the home coaches box and the radio broadcast crew or in sections 125-127 - directly in front of Lerner's loge.
This is why I directed my attention there, and sometimes we as fans need to show more disdain and ferver while at the stadium. We need to show the team and the organization.....and LERNER that what they are doing is unacceptable. Period.
Impact can be made as tonight on the Point After show when Donovan and Dieken made specific mention of my disdain and displeasure as I ranted right in front of their booth. They made points that the fans are growing increasingly upset
It's time to stand up and stand against this ownership regime.
Good points, all. The truth about the rant wasn't necessarily at them, it was more about the lack of focus and uninspired play on the field. I know these guys in the booth aren't decision makers and probably know how to chart things better than actually coach.
But as a fan there are only two areas of the stadium where you can take out frustrations and direct them at those running the team: Sections 309-310 (where I was) in front of the home coaches box and the radio broadcast crew or in sections 125-127 - directly in front of Lerner's loge.
This is why I directed my attention there, and sometimes we as fans need to show more disdain and ferver while at the stadium. We need to show the team and the organization.....and LERNER that what they are doing is unacceptable. Period.
Impact can be made as tonight on the Point After show when Donovan and Dieken made specific mention of my disdain and displeasure as I ranted right in front of their booth. They made points that the fans are growing increasingly upset
It's time to stand up and stand against this ownership regime.
I'm all for passion. The problem is, the only way to impact the owner is to stop showing up. That'll do it. Then stop buying tickets in the offseason. But most fans aren't willing to do that. It speaks highly of Cleveland fans, actually.
Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.
It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.
-jj
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Good points, all. The truth about the rant wasn't necessarily at them, it was more about the lack of focus and uninspired play on the field. I know these guys in the booth aren't decision makers and probably know how to chart things better than actually coach.
But as a fan there are only two areas of the stadium where you can take out frustrations and direct them at those running the team: Sections 309-310 (where I was) in front of the home coaches box and the radio broadcast crew or in sections 125-127 - directly in front of Lerner's loge.
This is why I directed my attention there, and sometimes we as fans need to show more disdain and ferver while at the stadium. We need to show the team and the organization.....and LERNER that what they are doing is unacceptable. Period.
Impact can be made as tonight on the Point After show when Donovan and Dieken made specific mention of my disdain and displeasure as I ranted right in front of their booth. They made points that the fans are growing increasingly upset
It's time to stand up and stand against this ownership regime.
I'm all for passion. The problem is, the only way to impact the owner is to stop showing up. That'll do it. Then stop buying tickets in the offseason. But most fans aren't willing to do that. It speaks highly of Cleveland fans, actually.
Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.
It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.
-jj
I'm all for passion. The problem is, the only way to impact the owner is to stop showing up. That'll do it. Then stop buying tickets in the offseason. But most fans aren't willing to do that. It speaks highly of Cleveland fans, actually.
Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.
It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.
-jj
Have you changed your stance on the direction the team is heading?
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Good points, all. The truth about the rant wasn't necessarily at them, it was more about the lack of focus and uninspired play on the field. I know these guys in the booth aren't decision makers and probably know how to chart things better than actually coach.
But as a fan there are only two areas of the stadium where you can take out frustrations and direct them at those running the team: Sections 309-310 (where I was) in front of the home coaches box and the radio broadcast crew or in sections 125-127 - directly in front of Lerner's loge.
This is why I directed my attention there, and sometimes we as fans need to show more disdain and ferver while at the stadium. We need to show the team and the organization.....and LERNER that what they are doing is unacceptable. Period.
Impact can be made as tonight on the Point After show when Donovan and Dieken made specific mention of my disdain and displeasure as I ranted right in front of their booth. They made points that the fans are growing increasingly upset
It's time to stand up and stand against this ownership regime.
I'm all for passion. The problem is, the only way to impact the owner is to stop showing up. That'll do it. Then stop buying tickets in the offseason. But most fans aren't willing to do that. It speaks highly of Cleveland fans, actually.
Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.
It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.
-jj
I'm all for passion. The problem is, the only way to impact the owner is to stop showing up. That'll do it. Then stop buying tickets in the offseason. But most fans aren't willing to do that. It speaks highly of Cleveland fans, actually.
tHAT'S WHY YOU ORGANIZE AND DO IT FOR 1 QUARTER OF THE NEXT HOME GAME....ONE QTR WILL STILL GET THE MESSAGE OUT THERE....i'D ACTUALLY ABSOLUTELY LOVE TO SEE TWO TEAMS PLAYING IN AN EMPTY STADIUM FOR A QTR...WE DEFINETLY MAKE THE NEWS! sry bout the capsSadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.
It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.
-jj
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Talent my assss. The browns have had the top picks for over a decade. It has been poor
coaching, poor insight, poor ability to get the most out of your players, and some stupidity from the owner. The browns should have been out of the basement long ago.
As far as the fans not showing up and leaving the stands empty, that would be the best. But it is not ever going to happen in my opinion. I'd love that to happen to the Pirates for even a game. I've been talking about it for years. In our towns we love our sports and there will always be people that are willing to go to the games no matter what.
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Talent my assss. The browns have had the top picks for over a decade. It has been poor
coaching, poor insight, poor ability to get the most out of your players, and some stupidity from the owner. The browns should have been out of the basement long ago.
As far as the fans not showing up and leaving the stands empty, that would be the best. But it is not ever going to happen in my opinion. I'd love that to happen to the Pirates for even a game. I've been talking about it for years. In our towns we love our sports and there will always be people that are willing to go to the games no matter what.
Talent my assss. The browns have had the top picks for over a decade. It has been poor
coaching, poor insight, poor ability to get the most out of your players, and some stupidity from the owner. The browns should have been out of the basement long ago.
As far as the fans not showing up and leaving the stands empty, that would be the best. But it is not ever going to happen in my opinion. I'd love that to happen to the Pirates for even a game. I've been talking about it for years. In our towns we love our sports and there will always be people that are willing to go to the games no matter what.
agree 1000% but you missed the real reason...we can't fuking draft our way out of a wet paper bag, let alone out of the basement of the afc north
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Well I don't think you guys have had great drafts by any means but they have not been piss poor either. What I really think is that the coaching staff needs to be able to evaluate the players they are drafting for the type of defense they have in mind, what they want to do on offense, and stop trying to create a team that will compete 3 years down the line and worry about today. You work out your long term problems after the season is done. That is my opinion anyway.
I still think your O-line should have been one of the best in the league. Your defense I saw it's weakness coming and I'm not sure what your coach was doing.
Here is the bottom line and I will stop beating the dead horse. Mangini is feeling the pressure and let his ego get in the way before the season even started. He is now feeling it even more with a rookie coach in Denver from the same coaching tree who is succeeding and he is floundering. I don't really see his vision and what he is trying to achieve with the decisons he is making. The only thing that makes sense is that they want to keep Quinn from making his $ and trading him and starting over again.
The problem with that? It's not very often that a rookie QB comes into the league ready to go. It's damn rare. He should have been looking at every free agent QB available and making every attempt he could to pick them up if he did not have confidence in either of these two. I think he should still pick up a Vet that is a second string QB or free agent at the end of the season and not pick a top draft pick QB in the first round. Work on the defense, work on the O-line AGAIN, and work on the contracts of your best players instead of letting them walk. First on the list should be Cribbs. If you guys let him go I hope more than any player the STEELERS pick him up. The browns have been almost criminal with their players.
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An honest question?
Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?
Anybody??
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
An honest question?
Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?
Anybody??
An honest question?
Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?
Anybody??
That is a great question. Especially if you factor in that the coach created a QB controversy, traded away some of the best talent on the team for pennies on the dollar, tore up any team cheistry that existed, and continues to play one of the worst QBs in the league.
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As with all organizations, if there is a need for turnaround, you have to start at the top and work your way down. Lerner is a major issue in that this new franchise has made and repeated mistakes in appointing President's, GM's and Head coaches. What does it take to get through to him that until we get that part right, we will never restore our image as a successful team. When Crennel/Savage did not work, the replacements needed to be sure-bets, proven commodities, and not more risky alternatives such as Mangini. I would rather have appointed interim managers than taken this kind of risk.
From there, come the coaches/scouts and the dedication to designing a team that will be competitve in our environment. That means that draft choices focus on the line of scrimmage, and linebackers, and that a fast-truck like Peterson cannot be bypassed.
We are making elementary mistakes and we keep on making them. Lerner, please fire the coach now and sell the team to someone smart enough to pass high school.
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Bad owner and bad coaching...we could win with this talent if we had a real offensive coordinator that adjusts the offensive playbook to fit the personel we have instead of forcing the players into a high school football gamebook that every defense can readily deal with....
Its easy to see daboll is not nor ever will be an offensive guru...its also easy to see mangini will never be anything but a wannabe student of belichick instead of a true master and an innovator..part of being a great coach is making things work with what you have until you get the pieces you need and mangini and daboll have failed miserably and will continue to fail for at least 2 more years before lerner even considers whacking them...
Bad owner and bad coaching...we could win with this talent if we had a real offensive coordinator that adjusts the offensive playbook to fit the personel we have instead of forcing the players into a high school football gamebook that every defense can readily deal with....
Ordinarily this makes a ton of sense however, in our case you can't really run more than a High School system. These players are really bad and it has become glaringly clear. There is just NO WAY we can believe these NFL coaches really don't know how to call or plan for a game. It is far more likely that they have ZERO talent to work with. Think of it this way, you have Brandon Jacobs where do you run him? Outside? Nope. INSIDE because that's where you can best utilize his strengths. Now think of our team who has ZERO talent and zero strengths, you're not going to ask them to do something they just cannot do. And with our players, that is a lot more than what they can do. Hence, you get a High School gameplan and play calls.
And so to my point. This team is talentless. Each one of them gets beat on every down by whoever is lined up across from them. We keep hearing these defeated players say "we work really hard it just aint coming together yet". When I hear those things, after I feel kinda bad for them I realize what they are really saying. "We try really hard, we believe in our ability but we just kinda suck at our jobs". For anybody out there wondering what it would look like if the best college team in the nation played an NFL team, watch the Browns. Its the same thing. A bunch of undeveloped young players who don't have the luxery of unlearning bad habits and developing over the next 2 years. This team needs to be purged.
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An honest question?
Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?
Anybody??
An honest question?
Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?
Anybody??
I think most people wanted both the coach and GM out of here. RAC because he handled losing like he just dropped a nickle down a sewer drain. "Oh shucks" and he mis-managed games on numerous occasions all the while winning 4 games with an arguably better team than 2007. And Savage because all of his choices proved to be really really bad.
This year is different because what little talent we had coming in...
Thomas - He can only play LT
Edwards - Sucked here and was leaving next year anyway
Winslow - The only guy with any trade value so we would have more than 4 picks...
....is either gone or is a LT. Mangini brought in some pretty average players himself but he had to stop the bleeding somewhere and these vets are not long-term solutions. Plus, RAC and Savage were no better off after 3 years on the job and Mangini and Kokinis are only just beginning their first year. We may be able to say they suck in 2 years, but one thing will never change. This team is talentless right now, in 2009, and there isn't much a coach can do with a limited amount of draft picks, no money, and one offseason.
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An honest question?
Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?
Anybody??
I think most people wanted both the coach and GM out of here. RAC because he handled losing like he just dropped a nickle down a sewer drain. "Oh shucks" and he mis-managed games on numerous occasions all the while winning 4 games with an arguably better team than 2007. And Savage because all of his choices proved to be really really bad.
This year is different because what little talent we had coming in...
Thomas - He can only play LT
Edwards - Sucked here and was leaving next year anyway
Winslow - The only guy with any trade value so we would have more than 4 picks...
....is either gone or is a LT. Mangini brought in some pretty average players himself but he had to stop the bleeding somewhere and these vets are not long-term solutions. Plus, RAC and Savage were no better off after 3 years on the job and Mangini and Kokinis are only just beginning their first year. We may be able to say they suck in 2 years, but one thing will never change. This team is talentless right now, in 2009, and there isn't much a coach can do with a limited amount of draft picks, no money, and one offseason.
This team is talentless right now, in 2009, and there isn't much a coach can do with a limited amount of draft picks, no money, and one offseason.
Chris Palmer should never have been fired. He won some games with absolutely nothing. He beat Pittspuke too!
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy."
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