Support for Mangini
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playing the rookies he drafted..
really? aside from momas and mack, the other rookies have not gotten much of a chance. i remember robiski getting one catch, maybe two. maiva has played special teams and not much defense. veikune has been an absolute ghost. he is only playing two rookies and the others aren't getting much playing time. he needs to let them play so that they can learn something.
really? aside from momas and mack, the other rookies have not gotten much of a chance. i remember robiski getting one catch, maybe two. maiva has played special teams and not much defense. veikune has been an absolute ghost. he is only playing two rookies and the others aren't getting much playing time. he needs to let them play so that they can learn something.
This is what worries me about Mangini. If he's calling the shots in the draft, he's been less than stellar. Yeah, Mack's been mighty good- he should be, if you draft a center in the first round. Gotten nothing out of Robo, he was supposed to be our JJ replacement. The rest of the guys he drafted have been pretty much invisible.
Really, I'm ambivalent about EM. Personally, I think he's totally screwed up the qb situation from the get-go. If we get Holmgren in and he can entice Chucky Gruden to coach the Browns, I sure won't shed a tear to see Mangini go. The team's been blown up so thoroughly, does it really matter who does the rebuilding?
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Formerly Stone said:
Pretty simple fact..................The type of GM needed in Cleveland is clearly a "complete control" guy who will remake the organization from the ground up.Another pretty simple fact.........A "complete control" guy is not getting complete control if a head coach comes with the package.
Think of it this way, if you are looking to take a job as a VP of Human Resources for a big company who is in complete disarray and the CEO says "you have complete control to do whatever you need to do to turn us around, but the Director of HR stays" Now you are faced with the additional task of figuring out the role that the Director played in the existing dysfunction......before you make your decision! It's just not a feasible situation.
This is one point I just don't get. Perhaps as a practical matter you need someone with final say. At the very least you need an agreed-upon process for resolving disagreement when it arises. But why do you need a "complete control" guy? What you need are intelligent football minds that are willing to reason through things together, weighing all the relevant considerations. You probably also need a bit of luck as well. But why do you need a football dictator? No disrespect-- maybe I'm missing something, but it just doesn't make sense to me.
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This team didn't get the way it is through just ONE or TWO drafts. Mangini inherited a team in disarray. I'm not ready to say our young receivers are bad picks...at last year's Super Bowl, I seem to recall the commentators saying (referring to Fitzgerald, who is a STUD WR!) that it takes 2-3 years for a receiver to develop into a good NFL player.
To expect a winner this year was not reasonable. Personally, I think a lot of positive things have been done & I'm willing to wait it out.
I honestly think Mangini will do fine, but we need to be patient. Folks may agree or disagree with me about him, but I WOULD like to see the personal slurs stop. That comes from a mentality that makes fun of others which I consider to bet a bully's behavior, and that's pretty gutless.
Just my opinions...those of a lifelong Brown's fan who feels we ARE finally on the right track..let's not de-rail the train now.
Mike
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This is more support than I expected for mangini on this board. The browns don't have many high level starters, it will take some time to improve this situation. Mangini knows everyone's strengths and weaknesses now so expect more free agent signings this off season.
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Mangini is the most hated coach (from the local media and nationally) in the history of professional sports. Even more then when Bellicheck was here. Thats why when he succeds Im gonna be glad to say he's our coach, The Cleveland Browns Head coach.
Cleveland has always been pissed on by everyone that has no idea what Cleveland is like, and never even visited Cleveland. From ESPN to The Late Show, everyone takes shots at Cleveland. Alot of people say Clevelanders are arrogant, its not arrogance its a US VERSE THE WORLD mentality because of the unnesisary dissrespect from outsiders. Now Mangini has to deal with all the negative media that us Clevelanders have always dealt with, when he gets this team turned around it wont only be for him or the browns or Cleveland, but all of Ohio. We'll be able to stand proud and say we did it all by are self. Theres no greater satisfaction then proving someone wrong. I hope and beleive Mangini can do that and when he does I'll be glad to call him my coach
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Mangini is the most hated coach (from the local media and nationally) in the history of professional sports. Even more then when Bellicheck was here. Thats why when he succeds Im gonna be glad to say he's our coach, The Cleveland Browns Head coach.
Cleveland has always been pissed on by everyone that has no idea what Cleveland is like, and never even visited Cleveland. From ESPN to The Late Show, everyone takes shots at Cleveland. Alot of people say Clevelanders are arrogant, its not arrogance its a US VERSE THE WORLD mentality because of the unnesisary dissrespect from outsiders. Now Mangini has to deal with all the negative media that us Clevelanders have always dealt with, when he gets this team turned around it wont only be for him or the browns or Cleveland, but all of Ohio. We'll be able to stand proud and say we did it all by are self. Theres no greater satisfaction then proving someone wrong. I hope and beleive Mangini can do that and when he does I'll be glad to call him my coach
nmills said:
Mangini is the most hated coach (from the local media and nationally) in the history of professional sports. Even more then when Bellicheck was here. Thats why when he succeds Im gonna be glad to say he's our coach, The Cleveland Browns Head coach.Cleveland has always been pissed on by everyone that has no idea what Cleveland is like, and never even visited Cleveland. From ESPN to The Late Show, everyone takes shots at Cleveland. Alot of people say Clevelanders are arrogant, its not arrogance its a US VERSE THE WORLD mentality because of the unnesisary dissrespect from outsiders. Now Mangini has to deal with all the negative media that us Clevelanders have always dealt with, when he gets this team turned around it wont only be for him or the browns or Cleveland, but all of Ohio. We'll be able to stand proud and say we did it all by are self. Theres no greater satisfaction then proving someone wrong. I hope and beleive Mangini can do that and when he does I'll be glad to call him my coach
Post of the decade!
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He needs to show me the money, so to speak.
I am skeptical but would love nothing better than to be pleasantly surprised.
There is no reason for me to support this guy or not. Support can be measured with Ws and Ls.
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Things that annoy me about Mangini
#1I know both QBs suck, but stick with one, dont flip flop, its gets us nowhere, the Qbs cant improve, and its just annoying
#2. this draft better be freaking amazing, cause this one, other than one good game by Mohammad, has shown me nothing at all.
#3 Make damn sure Quinn IS NOT the future, cause if he isnt than we need another QB, so get one.
#4 Quit being a control freak, i know its crazy but there are other people out there more talented than Mangini at what they specifically do. MAngini is a coach. Coaches coach, General Managers manage, so Mangini, do your job and the new GM will do theirs, if the even keep you on.
I am not saying all this because i hate the guy, he had two winning seasons in three years with the Jets which we havent had in awhile so he can coach some, its just the hiding stuff, the flip flopping, the abrupt dismissal of the GM that bother me. Yes i want wins and losses but i also want class, and it just doesnt seem like Mangini has much.
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I am curious to find out how many people actually like Mangini and understand the enormous task he has rebuilding this team. I hear nothing but trash about him from every media clown and internet drone and I can't seem to figure out the logic behind it. I hear a lot of people talking about blowing this team up and starting over and that is exactly what is happening right before our eyes. This is what it looks like. So, I'm creating a poll to gauge how many people secretly like what Mangini is doing and how many people are just pissed about our Browns and need someone to take the fall for it.
Poll results from the old forum
Is Mangini taking us in the right direction?
- Yes, he has a lot of work to do and needs ample time to do it: 29 votes
- No, He's Hitler with a headset and was sent by Bin Laden to dismantle the Browns: 14 votes
- Maybe, I understand this team needs a lot of help but he should be better than 1-7: 24 votes
- Maybe not, He is a football genius but can't get his players to play for him: 4 votes
I am curious to find out how many people actually like Mangini and understand the enormous task he has rebuilding this team. I hear nothing but trash about him from every media clown and internet drone and I can't seem to figure out the logic behind it. I hear a lot of people talking about blowing this team up and starting over and that is exactly what is happening right before our eyes. This is what it looks like. So, I'm creating a poll to gauge how many people secretly like what Mangini is doing and how many people are just pissed about our Browns and need someone to take the fall for it.
You have to be pleased with the results of this poll. I'm thinking it surprised you?
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I say fire him. Yes, the team needs to be rebuilt but imo he isn't the one to do it. He alienates people, trouble follows the guy, and you don't want a guy like this running your team. Sure, he unloaded people he should've unloaded, and maybe he is setting this team up well so it can be rebuilt, but look who they got in these trades. None of the former Jets picked up at the start of the year are imo any better than the people we replaced. The team looks worse than last year, too... There is nothing I've seen from this team that looks the least bit promising. Again, I'm all for blowing it up as they've done, and I was definitely ready for Savage's act to be over, but eventually you have to actually build a winner. Despite his horrid drafting, Jim Paxson did a great job of shedding payroll for the Cavs, but I sure am glad he was canned when he was. I doubt Mangini will be getting any more coaching/GM offers when he's on the street than Paxson has.
However, my main contention is that Mangini should have NOTHING to do with the hiring of the new exec and GM. When that exec and GM comes in, it should be HIS choice on whether Mangini stays or goes.
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I say fire him. Yes, the team needs to be rebuilt but imo he isn't the one to do it. He alienates people, trouble follows the guy, and you don't want a guy like this running your team. Sure, he unloaded people he should've unloaded, and maybe he is setting this team up well so it can be rebuilt, but look who they got in these trades. None of the former Jets picked up at the start of the year are imo any better than the people we replaced. The team looks worse than last year, too... There is nothing I've seen from this team that looks the least bit promising. Again, I'm all for blowing it up as they've done, and I was definitely ready for Savage's act to be over, but eventually you have to actually build a winner. Despite his horrid drafting, Jim Paxson did a great job of shedding payroll for the Cavs, but I sure am glad he was canned when he was. I doubt Mangini will be getting any more coaching/GM offers when he's on the street than Paxson has.
However, my main contention is that Mangini should have NOTHING to do with the hiring of the new exec and GM. When that exec and GM comes in, it should be HIS choice on whether Mangini stays or goes.
I say fire him. Yes, the team needs to be rebuilt but imo he isn't the one to do it. He alienates people, trouble follows the guy, and you don't want a guy like this running your team. Sure, he unloaded people he should've unloaded, and maybe he is setting this team up well so it can be rebuilt, but look who they got in these trades. None of the former Jets picked up at the start of the year are imo any better than the people we replaced. The team looks worse than last year, too... There is nothing I've seen from this team that looks the least bit promising. Again, I'm all for blowing it up as they've done, and I was definitely ready for Savage's act to be over, but eventually you have to actually build a winner. Despite his horrid drafting, Jim Paxson did a great job of shedding payroll for the Cavs, but I sure am glad he was canned when he was. I doubt Mangini will be getting any more coaching/GM offers when he's on the street than Paxson has.
However, my main contention is that Mangini should have NOTHING to do with the hiring of the new exec and GM. When that exec and GM comes in, it should be HIS choice on whether Mangini stays or goes.
I'm still a Mangini apologist, but I can agree with this post. Good post, well said.
I just want to excuse all the so-called trouble, because a lot of it is whiney media posers acting like they have a personal vendetta. It's not even journalism, it's whining.
... and I will probably say this 80 times before Mangini is let go ... but this whole media rantings reminds me of the Belichick lynching of the early 90's.
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I just hope Lerner doesn't screw up the next hire. Frankly, I'm concerned he's going to hand the keys over to Cowher. I'm not convinced whether Cowher's success was in great coaching or just being part of a great system. Tomlin has come right in with barely a hiccup. If Cowher is a bad hire, it could set the team back a decade.
Lerner needs to simply pick a good exec and let that guy pick the coach. No more of this svengali coach nonsense where the coach rules the roost. No more immature dingalings like Savage. I'm sure there were fans who thought that Lerner hiring Mangini the way he did was a good idea (before the GM), but I don't know any. It was so OBVIOUSLY ridiculous. Now Lerner has another guy in Kokonis who he's paying to hang out at the beach.
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I just hope Lerner doesn't screw up the next hire. Frankly, I'm concerned he's going to hand the keys over to Cowher. I'm not convinced whether Cowher's success was in great coaching or just being part of a great system. Tomlin has come right in with barely a hiccup. If Cowher is a bad hire, it could set the team back a decade.
Lerner needs to simply pick a good exec and let that guy pick the coach. No more of this svengali coach nonsense where the coach rules the roost. No more immature dingalings like Savage. I'm sure there were fans who thought that Lerner hiring Mangini the way he did was a good idea (before the GM), but I don't know any. It was so OBVIOUSLY ridiculous. Now Lerner has another guy in Kokonis who he's paying to hang out at the beach.
I just hope Lerner doesn't screw up the next hire. Frankly, I'm concerned he's going to hand the keys over to Cowher. I'm not convinced whether Cowher's success was in great coaching or just being part of a great system. Tomlin has come right in with barely a hiccup. If Cowher is a bad hire, it could set the team back a decade.
Lerner needs to simply pick a good exec and let that guy pick the coach. No more of this svengali coach nonsense where the coach rules the roost. No more immature dingalings like Savage. I'm sure there were fans who thought that Lerner hiring Mangini the way he did was a good idea (before the GM), but I don't know any. It was so OBVIOUSLY ridiculous. Now Lerner has another guy in Kokonis who he's paying to hang out at the beach.
As I've mentioned before, Lerner needs a President of Football Operations & that person should be hired by Lerner AND a team of "football wise" consultants. Then that person or team needs to select a GM, then go with a Coach (be it Mangini or another) with whom they can work cohesively.
As good a Coach as I believe Cowher was, you are correct, he hired into a GREAT system. Hopefully, we can create a good & well functioning system here.
Mike
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I say fire him. Yes, the team needs to be rebuilt but imo he isn't the one to do it. He alienates people, trouble follows the guy, and you don't want a guy like this running your team. Sure, he unloaded people he should've unloaded, and maybe he is setting this team up well so it can be rebuilt, but look who they got in these trades. None of the former Jets picked up at the start of the year are imo any better than the people we replaced. The team looks worse than last year, too... There is nothing I've seen from this team that looks the least bit promising. Again, I'm all for blowing it up as they've done, and I was definitely ready for Savage's act to be over, but eventually you have to actually build a winner. Despite his horrid drafting, Jim Paxson did a great job of shedding payroll for the Cavs, but I sure am glad he was canned when he was. I doubt Mangini will be getting any more coaching/GM offers when he's on the street than Paxson has.
However, my main contention is that Mangini should have NOTHING to do with the hiring of the new exec and GM. When that exec and GM comes in, it should be HIS choice on whether Mangini stays or goes.
I'm still a Mangini apologist, but I can agree with this post. Good post, well said.
I just want to excuse all the so-called trouble, because a lot of it is whiney media posers acting like they have a personal vendetta. It's not even journalism, it's whining.
... and I will probably say this 80 times before Mangini is let go ... but this whole media rantings reminds me of the Belichick lynching of the early 90's.
I'm still a Mangini apologist, but I can agree with this post. Good post, well said.
I just want to excuse all the so-called trouble, because a lot of it is whiney media posers acting like they have a personal vendetta. It's not even journalism, it's whining.
... and I will probably say this 80 times before Mangini is let go ... but this whole media rantings reminds me of the Belichick lynching of the early 90's.
Yeah Stan, I remember "Metcalf up the middle" and Bernie's diminishing skills. Wrong on one, right on the other.
Oh, the Belichek lynching of the 90s was a tempest in a teapot compared to this. Now shall we discuss Anderson's "diminishing skills"? DA has the potential of a whale turd sitting on the bottom of the ocean, yet Mangini seems primed to give this POS yet another chance- and that would be to set the ALL TIME RECORD FOR WORST PASSER RATING IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL!!!
When your team captain spouts off to the media, you'd better notice. When 95% of the national reporting is negative, you'd better notice. When your offensive (really offensive) coordinator is afraid to let a college quarterback try more than one pass out of the WildDawg, I sure notice.
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I don't mind a dry, disciplanarian coach (although upbeat coaches are more fun to watch - the players wouldn't need showers with cowher spitting on the sidelines). Mangini seems to bring a total lack of integrity. I have to look no further than the quarterback debacle to determine that. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason he is playing Quinn is not because he wants to, but he was told to or he thinks he can save face that way.
Hope has two beautiful daughters: Their names are Anger and Courage. Anger that things are the way they are. Courage to make them the way they ought to be. - St. Augustine. Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps down new roads armed with nothing but their vision. - Ayn Rand -
What i see in Mangini is a man who is immature for his job. Perhaps he got propelled too quickly, saw success too quickly and failure also too quickly and he is not having enough time to grasp the entire situation - to understand his mistakes and to realize how to solve them. He needs more jobs as a coordinator before getting the head coach gig.
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I don't mind a dry, disciplanarian coach (although upbeat coaches are more fun to watch - the players wouldn't need showers with cowher spitting on the sidelines). Mangini seems to bring a total lack of integrity. I have to look no further than the quarterback debacle to determine that. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason he is playing Quinn is not because he wants to, but he was told to or he thinks he can save face that way.
I don't mind a dry, disciplanarian coach (although upbeat coaches are more fun to watch - the players wouldn't need showers with cowher spitting on the sidelines). Mangini seems to bring a total lack of integrity. I have to look no further than the quarterback debacle to determine that. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason he is playing Quinn is not because he wants to, but he was told to or he thinks he can save face that way.
What would be YOUR reason for playing Quinn? Or, would you just not play him?
The QB 'debacle' has been going on here for three years with the same cast (ten years with similar cast). The only thing that has been a debacle is that none of these clowns seized the moment when given an opportunity.
Would a great QB not even look up-field to throw a forward pass, or throw off-target, throw too early, throw too late, time and time again?
Why exactly would Quinn deserve playing time other than to receive by some sort of default. It could be a default in that the other guy stunk up the joint, or by default since he was drafted so high, but never-the-less, it's the ONLY reason to play the third year rookie.
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I am curious to find out how many people actually like Mangini and understand the enormous task he has rebuilding this team. I hear nothing but trash about him from every media clown and internet drone and I can't seem to figure out the logic behind it. I hear a lot of people talking about blowing this team up and starting over and that is exactly what is happening right before our eyes. This is what it looks like. So, I'm creating a poll to gauge how many people secretly like what Mangini is doing and how many people are just pissed about our Browns and need someone to take the fall for it.
You have to be pleased with the results of this poll. I'm thinking it surprised you?
You have to be pleased with the results of this poll. I'm thinking it surprised you?
Yeah, it seems like most people back him but expected better than 1-7 which I can understand. Its surprising because all the media and talk radio callers do is bash him. I thought I would get a more accurate reading from this board because outside of the QB debate, people here are all around better and more informed fans. But it does sound like overall, fans are willing to give him a fair shot over the next 2-3 years and that's all I'm asking for, a fair shot. I do understand its hard to find a positive when you look at our record but I really believe he's doing this the right way and we will have to take our lumps in the beginning. I hope Lerner understands that and doesn't panic.
"Chances are, if you think Jay Leno is funny, I don't care for you as a person" - Peter Griffin
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