Rock n roll HOF

[ballpeen]

@the-gipper said:

Maybe this isn't the right forum for this topic, but here goes anyway:

Here is this year's class of Inductees into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame:

ABBA

Genesis

The Hollies

The Stooges

Jimmy Cliff

Issues/Questions:

A. If a pop superstar group like ABBA is to be inducted, why not a pop superstar like Neil Diamond and Barbara Streisand?

B. Genesis is like the first progressive rock band to make it. An overlooked genre.

C. The Hollies were in with the British Invasion.

D. Jimmy Cliff was a reggae pioneer. Except for he and Bob Marley, what other reggae acts are in or are considered?

E. The Stooges were a pioneer of the punk genre.

Groups NOT inducted:

Perhaps the biggest surprise is that the Red Hot Chili Peppers weren't inducted. I suspect they will be soon. Also overlooked:

Jethro Tull

Journey

Joe Cocker

Alice Cooper

Deep Purple

Dire Straits

Donovan

The Doobie Brothers

Electric Light Orchestra

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer

Grand Funk Railroad

Hall and Oates

Heart

Janet Jackson

King Crimson

The Monkees

The Moody Blues

Ted Nugent

Rush

Tina Turner (though she is in as part of Ike and Tina)

Yes

Roxy Music

Todd Rundgren

various metal groups like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest

Kool and the Gang

and feel free to name anyone I left out.

Until Free or Bad Company is inducted, getting Paul Rodgers in....the voice of RR is going to be excluded.

Paul Rodgers is the best rock singer ever.

[Kosar_For_President]

It's not the Rock N' Roll hall of fame anymore. I am embarrassed of it. F*cking ABBA. Whatever.

[Riffer X]

@ballpeen said:

Until Free or Bad Company is inducted, getting Paul Rodgers in....the voice of RR is going to be excluded.

Paul Rodgers is the best rock singer ever.

Peens good seeing ya again my man. Thanks for the shine!!!!

[flipflop]

The guys against Abba getting in probably don't know where Sweden is.

[Kosar_For_President]

@flipflop said:

The guys against Abba getting in probably don't know where Sweden is.

The guys who do want them to get in, like it in the 2 hole. Congrats on liking ABBA.

p.s. I've been to Stockholm and ABBA sucks balls.

ROCK AND ROLL!!!!!!!!!!

[ballpeen]

@kosar_for_president said:

The guys who do want them to get in, like it in the 2 hole. Congrats on liking ABBA.

p.s. I've been to Stockholm and ABBA sucks balls.

ROCK AND ROLL!!!!!!!!!!

Rock encompasses a wide range of music.

The Bee Gees as an example wouldn't be what I call a rock band, but they are in and I don't think many would argue with their inclusion even if they didn't like the Bee Gees.

While ABBA is clearly at the opposite end of the Rock spectrum from say, Nine Inch Nails, their music was widely popular and I don't have any beef with their inclusion even though I never bought any of their records and "Dancing Queen" is about the only song I can remember by title.

Remember, rock covers a wide range. If you are stuck on the opposite end of that range, I do understand why one would question the inclusion.

I am sure people who dig the Carpenters don't have much use for Meticallica. It doesn't make them correct either.

[Bob806]

@ballpeen said:

While ABBA is clearly at the opposite end of the Rock spectrum from say, Nine Inch Nails, their music was widely popular and I don't have any beef with their inclusion even though I never bought any of their records and "Dancing Queen" is about the only song I can remember by title.

Remember, rock covers a wide range. If you are stuck on the opposite end of that range, I do understand why one would question the inclusion.

I am sure people who dig the Carpenters don't have much use for Meticallica. It doesn't make them correct either.

Funny...don't you remember ABBA's Fernando? Weird Al Yankovic could do an "Albert Belle" version.....I was running down to 2nd base, I smashed your face, Fernando (Vina).....

Also, I have both The Carpenters & Metallica on my MP3 player, FYI. You are profiling me, lol.

I take on the RRHOF is simply it is waaaaay too subjective, and cannot possibly please anybody. I have never visited the place, because my favorite, Black Sabbath, was snubbed for far too long. If it was up to me, the first class of inductees would have been the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, The Who, Elvis, CSNY, & Pink Floyd. I never attended any party or event where people say "can you put on some Joni Mitchell or Billy Joel?"

We all have different tastes in music, so having a RRHOF doesn't make sense.

[Westside Steve]

I just read a book "the history of R and R by Robert Palmer, the NYT rock critic (dunno if it's the old pop singer) and wasn't very taken by it.

It was well written enough but bored me.

The entire hook was tracing the "rock n roll" back through the African to Negro spiritual though blues through soul.

Spnt most of the time on Howlin' Wolf and James Brown Stax Motown etc.

Though I realize that was one of the roots of R and R it doesn't interest me a lot.

Even though the Beatles and Stones recorrded some R and B standards I'm way more in touch with where they went from there.

Procol Harum was king of blues based BUT it was the classical influence I liked.

So to a purist only hard bop is jazz.

Matter of fact there are factions that say if you play 5 notes the same twice in a tune it isn't jazz anymore.

Same with rock and roll.

Just different flavors.

I'm as big a music snob as anybody BUT when I step back I have to admit that if someone is listening to {insert some band you hate} and is moved by that music then it is just as valid as anything {insert band you love} ever recorded.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

@the-gipper said:

I beg to disagree. Here is the evidence:

Curly was one partying MF! He died way to young from it.

[Kosar_For_President]

@ballpeen said:

Rock encompasses a wide range of music.

The Bee Gees as an example wouldn't be what I call a rock band, but they are in and I don't think many would argue with their inclusion even if they didn't like the Bee Gees.

While ABBA is clearly at the opposite end of the Rock spectrum from say, Nine Inch Nails, their music was widely popular and I don't have any beef with their inclusion even though I never bought any of their records and "Dancing Queen" is about the only song I can remember by title.

Remember, rock covers a wide range. If you are stuck on the opposite end of that range, I do understand why one would question the inclusion.

I am sure people who dig the Carpenters don't have much use for Meticallica. It doesn't make them correct either.

I am a huge Carol King and Metallica fan. The Bee Gees wrote some pretty kick ass music. But in NO way should Carol King or Bee Gee's or f*cking Madonna (don't get me started on this chick) be in the Rock N' Roll Hall of fame. That is the first failure of the Rock Hall, they never defined Rock n' Roll. And as I can see they will eventually run out of ROCK bands to put in, well, rock bands that have a record company backing and marketing. The Hall inevitably defined success incorrectly. Abba sold a boat load of albums and that is the Rock Hall's definition of success. Not the fact that they ROCK. For that matter they should of created a Pop Hall of Fame in San Francisco.

[Kosar_For_President]

@westside-steve said:

I'm as big a music snob as anybody BUT when I step back I have to admit that if someone is listening to {insert some band you hate} and is moved by that music then it is just as valid as anything {insert band you love} ever recorded.

I agree Steve but it's not Rock in my opinion. I think why many people are upset on letting Abba, Madonna and RUN DMC (f*ck that, that is 100% wrong) in the Hall because for the first 15 years or so, they inductees were based on soul or rock. They defined rock and the Hall by the bands they inducted in the first 20 years or so. THEY DID IT. Then they start running out of bands who sold 50 million records and need to save face. It's phony. Just wait, in 10 years you will see Back Street Boys and Celine Dion get in, just watch. Which are NO different then bullshit Madonna puts out. All sold 30 million of one album. They got money and need more publicity, put them into the Rock Hall. You think Abba just sold another million records, upon getting inducted, YES! What a sham.

I think of anyone Steve you would respect this view point.

[Westside Steve]

@kosar_for_president said:

I agree Steve but it's not Rock in my opinion. I think why many people are upset on letting Abba, Madonna and RUN DMC (f*ck that, that is 100% wrong) in the Hall because for the first 15 years or so, they inductees were based on soul or rock. They defined rock and the Hall by the bands they inducted in the first 20 years or so. THEY DID IT. Then they start running out of bands who sold 50 million records and need to save face. It's phony. Just wait, in 10 years you will see Back Street Boys and Celine Dion get in, just watch. Which are NO different then bullshit Madonna puts out. All sold 30 million of one album. They got money and need more publicity, put them into the Rock Hall. You think Abba just sold another million records, upon getting inducted, YES! What a sham.

I think of anyone Steve you would respect this view point.

What is Rock and Roll then?

Only Bill Haley?

Only Chuck Berry?

Annette Funicello?

Bobby Sherman?

I don't think you can define most bands out.

I'd say it's basically music young people like.

There may be an element of rebellion.

But rebellion against the foilkies led to beach pop that led to the hippies led to disco led to grunge.

List me five you consider seminal Rock and Roll.

WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

@westside-steve said:

What is Rock and Roll then?

Only Bill Haley?

Only Chuck Berry?

Annette Funicello?

Bobby Sherman?

I don't think you can define most bands out.

I'd say it's basically music young people like.

There may be an element of rebellion.

But rebellion against the foilkies led to beach pop that led to the hippies led to disco led to grunge.

List me five you consider seminal Rock and Roll.

WSS

Disco to Grunge? You left out 20 years of shitty hair bands, cheesy key-tars and piano ties Steve.

Not sure what you mean seminal, sorry out of work, brain not functioning correctly.

[The Gipper]

@riffer-x said:

Well, metal/hard rock is a pretty big genre and these two are a couple of the main originators besides Sabbath. They will definitely be in eventually.

Also, they have the numbers to back it up as far as record sales, huge tours etc.

I prefer to call it the Eclectic Conglomerate of Cultural Music Hall of Fame. Some of this stuff is not even close to rock and roll.

Well, Metal also has Metallica in there, plus I don't know if you consider Van Halen "metal". I always have sorta. And don't forget Hendrix and Led Zeppelin. Lots of people think of them as "metal".

I would say that "Progressive" Rock is as big a genre, and far less represented. Only Pink Floyd and now Genesis are now is as far as I know. No Jethro Tull, Procul Harum, Yes, King Crimson, Roxy Music, etc. are in.

[The Gipper]

@ballpeen said:

Until Free or Bad Company is inducted, getting Paul Rodgers in....the voice of RR is going to be excluded.

Paul Rodgers is the best rock singer ever.

I don't know about the best ever, but he is a damn good one for sure.

[The Gipper]

@kosar_for_president said:

It's not the Rock N' Roll hall of fame anymore. I am embarrassed of it. F*cking ABBA. Whatever.

It is sorta head scratching. ABBA in, but no Kiss or Alice Cooper?

Dancing Queen in? Rock n' Roll All Night out?

Take a Chance on me in? But I'm Eighteen, and School's Out out?

[The Gipper]

@ballpeen said:

Rock encompasses a wide range of music.

The Bee Gees as an example wouldn't be what I call a rock band, but they are in and I don't think many would argue with their inclusion even if they didn't like the Bee Gees.

While ABBA is clearly at the opposite end of the Rock spectrum from say, Nine Inch Nails, their music was widely popular and I don't have any beef with their inclusion even though I never bought any of their records and "Dancing Queen" is about the only song I can remember by title.

Remember, rock covers a wide range. If you are stuck on the opposite end of that range, I do understand why one would question the inclusion.

I am sure people who dig the Carpenters don't have much use for Meticallica. It doesn't make them correct either.

Sure, you make a point, but what about these guys as well:

[The Gipper]

@bob806 said:

Funny...don't you remember ABBA's Fernando? Weird Al Yankovic could do an "Albert Belle" version.....I was running down to 2nd base, I smashed your face, Fernando (Vina).....

Also, I have both The Carpenters & Metallica on my MP3 player, FYI. You are profiling me, lol.

I take on the RRHOF is simply it is waaaaay too subjective, and cannot possibly please anybody. I have never visited the place, because my favorite, Black Sabbath, was snubbed for far too long. If it was up to me, the first class of inductees would have been the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, The Who, Elvis, CSNY, & Pink Floyd. I never attended any party or event where people say "can you put on some Joni Mitchell or Billy Joel?"

We all have different tastes in music, so having a RRHOF doesn't make sense.

Uh, none of those guys were eligible in the "first class" because you had to have had a record out 25 years before you were eligible, and it had not been 25 years yet for those guys. But that first class did have Elvis, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, James Brown, Ray Charles, Little Richard, Sam Cooke, the Everly Brothers and a few others. You got a problem with that group? The others got in pretty much when they were eligible, except perhaps for BS.

[The Gipper]

@kosar_for_president said:

I agree Steve but it's not Rock in my opinion. I think why many people are upset on letting Abba, Madonna and RUN DMC (f*ck that, that is 100% wrong) in the Hall because for the first 15 years or so, they inductees were based on soul or rock. They defined rock and the Hall by the bands they inducted in the first 20 years or so. THEY DID IT. Then they start running out of bands who sold 50 million records and need to save face. It's phony. Just wait, in 10 years you will see Back Street Boys and Celine Dion get in, just watch. Which are NO different then bullshit Madonna puts out. All sold 30 million of one album. They got money and need more publicity, put them into the Rock Hall. You think Abba just sold another million records, upon getting inducted, YES! What a sham.

I think of anyone Steve you would respect this view point.

Well, Kosar, this is where you are getting it wrong. It is NOT the Rock Hall of Fame, it is the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame....and to a lot of people there is a difference. "Rock" to me infers a "heavier" type of music, at least in the way a lot of people use the term, where "Rock n Roll" is a far more inclusive type of music which encompasses even pop music pretty much. I mean, Pat Boone and Ricky Nelson styled themselve Rock n Rollers, but probably would not be thought of as Rock performers. Thus "Rock" may not be a wide enough genre to include ABBA and Madonna, but "Rock N' Roll" is.

And I just don't get this antipathy toward Madonna.In fact, I think you are dead wrong in your classification of her. She, in essence was the prototypical Rock n Roll artist in the same vein Elvis was. First off, she is an outstanding vocalist and song writer, she pushed the social/sexual envelope to the point of rebellion, just as all the original rock n rollers did in their day, and she is an incredible performer.

I dunno, does she somehow threaten your masculinity? If so, I think that is exactly what she was going for.

[Bob806]

@the-gipper said:

Uh, none of those guys were eligible in the "first class" because you had to have had a record out 25 years before you were eligible, and it had not been 25 years yet for those guys. But that first class did have Elvis, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, James Brown, Ray Charles, Little Richard, Sam Cooke, the Everly Brothers and a few others. You got a problem with that group? The others got in pretty much when they were eligible, except perhaps for BS.

No, I don't have a problem with that group. It looks I have a problem with the 25 year thing, because, IMHO, those groups I mentioned (and some I didn't) should have been a "slam dunk" without a 25 year wait. I guess a different analogy could be that if the Football HOF was founded tomorrow, Paul Brown, Jim Brown, YA Title, etc. would be "automatics," no vote even needed/considered.

That's all...like many of us seem to agree on, it's a personal-taste thing. I don't care for Madonna or The Sex Pistols, yet I think they were inducted before Black Sabbath.....absolutely wrong.