Steelers did not make it to the play-offs
-
Zombo said:
Just tell me why you think Drew Brees is such a better athlete than Otto Graham was.Zombo
Different age ... Todays athletes Stronger and Faster. Its a pretty well know fact. This is not breaking news.
-
Zombo said:
So you are saying Drew Brees is stronger and faster than Otto Graham? I doubt he's faster, Graham finished third in the heisman voting as a halfback. Not sure he'd be stronger either, but I'm sure Otto would train and lift like all the other players if he was playing today.Face it ... you got nothing. Drew Brees is no better of an "athlete" than Otto Graham ... and he's no bigger either.
Zombo
You have nothing as well... Lost in the past.
-
More specifically, you HATE the truth. Aren't you the SAME guy that showed us 35 different camera angles of the football not making it to the first down marker? This is the same deal. Your best coaches were CLEVELAND BROWNS. And I see your buddies are editing the results they hate. Here's another snapshot of it all before we say checkmate Stoner!
The Browns were in 10 consecutive Pro Football Championships:
1946 (won)
1947 (won)
1948 (won)
1949 (won)
1950 (won)
1951 (lost)
1952 (lost)
1953 (lost)
1954 (won)
1955 (won)
7 wins 3 losses
1964 (won)
1 win 0 losses
A dynasty of 8-3 that includes 3 different decades. Inside the numbers there's a West Coast Offense that Bill Walsh would later use for his dynasty. There's an Otto Graham and a Jim Brown leading a multiplicity of players into the NFL Hall of Fame. There was absolutely no wreakage of any widespread steroid usage or HGH doctors in the house. Last but not least, there were 2 future Head Coaches named Noll and Shula waiting to put cities on the NFL map in Pittsburgh and Miami. Before the Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh was the NFL version of Native America before Christopher Columbus showed them the meaning of "how."
- Tom F. (If be envious of the REAL thing too if I was a Steel Orphan)
Flugel, you omitted that the Browns appeared in but lost the 1957 NFL title game to the Lions, to make that 11 appearances in a 12 year span with a record of 7-4 in that span.
Flugel, you omitted that the Browns appeared in but lost the 1957 NFL title game to the Lions, to make that 11 appearances in a 12 year span with a record of 7-4 in that span.
Glad you pointed that out Gipper because I didn't mean to. I just wanted to show 10 straight years of competing in the Championship (with 7 wins in the process). It looks even more impressive when you can put it in a column where every new row depicts 1 more year of a decade.
I added the 64 Championship Win further down the page to seperate it; and when I add the 57 Championship loss to show the Browns are 8-4 from 1946 to 1964. That's a volume of 4 NFL Titles and 4 AAFC Titles.
Worth noting: Otto Graham was 105-17-4 as a starting QB in Cleveland.
For those desperate enough to question his athleticism - Otto also played Pro Basketball for the Rochester Royals of the National Basketball League.
- Tom F. (Winning was pretty Otto-matic from 46 through 55)
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Drew 122 106 55-51-0 2697 4164 64.8 30646 202 4.9 110 2.6
Otto 126 114 57-13-1 1464 2626 55.8 23584 174 6.6 135 5.1
Games Record att comp % yrds TD INT
You cant tell me for a second that you believe that the Defenses in 1946-1955 Compared to Todays Defenses. Blazing Speed and Brute Force. Specialization. Lost in the past.
-
Drew 122 106 55-51-0 2697 4164 64.8 30646 202 4.9 110 2.6
Otto 126 114 57-13-1 1464 2626 55.8 23584 174 6.6 135 5.1
Games Record att comp % yrds TD INT
You cant tell me for a second that you believe that the Defenses in 1946-1955 Compared to Todays Defenses. Blazing Speed and Brute Force. Specialization. Lost in the past.
FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
Drew 122 106 55-51-0 2697 4164 64.8 30646 202 4.9 110 2.6Otto 126 114 57-13-1 1464 2626 55.8 23584 174 6.6 135 5.1
Games Record att comp % yrds TD INT
You cant tell me for a second that you believe that the Defenses in 1946-1955 Compared to Todays Defenses. Blazing Speed and Brute Force. Specialization. Lost in the past.
So, if the defenses are so much faster and better, what makes Otto Graham from being faster and better. Sports medicine has come a long way since Graham's heyday. If he was put on the same workout and diet regimen the players are on today, he'd most likely be just as good. People don't evolve into superhumans in a mere 50 years.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Flugel, you omitted that the Browns appeared in but lost the 1957 NFL title game to the Lions, to make that 11 appearances in a 12 year span with a record of 7-4 in that span.
Glad you pointed that out Gipper because I didn't mean to. I just wanted to show 10 straight years of competing in the Championship (with 7 wins in the process). It looks even more impressive when you can put it in a column where every new row depicts 1 more year of a decade.
I added the 64 Championship Win further down the page to seperate it; and when I add the 57 Championship loss to show the Browns are 8-4 from 1946 to 1964. That's a volume of 4 NFL Titles and 4 AAFC Titles.
Worth noting: Otto Graham was 105-17-4 as a starting QB in Cleveland.
For those desperate enough to question his athleticism - Otto also played Pro Basketball for the Rochester Royals of the National Basketball League.
- Tom F. (Winning was pretty Otto-matic from 46 through 55)
Glad you pointed that out Gipper because I didn't mean to. I just wanted to show 10 straight years of competing in the Championship (with 7 wins in the process). It looks even more impressive when you can put it in a column where every new row depicts 1 more year of a decade.
I added the 64 Championship Win further down the page to seperate it; and when I add the 57 Championship loss to show the Browns are 8-4 from 1946 to 1964. That's a volume of 4 NFL Titles and 4 AAFC Titles.
Worth noting: Otto Graham was 105-17-4 as a starting QB in Cleveland.
For those desperate enough to question his athleticism - Otto also played Pro Basketball for the Rochester Royals of the National Basketball League.
- Tom F. (Winning was pretty Otto-matic from 46 through 55)
He played Hoops for One season. I Never said he wasn't athletic for his day. I Played College Hoops (NAIA School very good player at that level) and I could have played in the NBL back then if I had the same skills. It was a different age . Different Era...we are talking about an athlete from the 40`s !!! Come on...The Browns had O-lineman weighing 213 , 231 and 233 to name a few.
Full Name: Alexander Arrasi Agase
Position: G/LB
Height: 5' 10'' Weight: 210
Player Bio Top
Full Name: Louis Joseph Rymkus
Position: OT/T
Height: 6' 4'' Weight: 231
Full Name: William K. Willis
(Deacon)
Position: G
Height: 6' 2'' Weight: 213
-
Glad you pointed that out Gipper because I didn't mean to. I just wanted to show 10 straight years of competing in the Championship (with 7 wins in the process). It looks even more impressive when you can put it in a column where every new row depicts 1 more year of a decade.
I added the 64 Championship Win further down the page to seperate it; and when I add the 57 Championship loss to show the Browns are 8-4 from 1946 to 1964. That's a volume of 4 NFL Titles and 4 AAFC Titles.
Worth noting: Otto Graham was 105-17-4 as a starting QB in Cleveland.
For those desperate enough to question his athleticism - Otto also played Pro Basketball for the Rochester Royals of the National Basketball League.
- Tom F. (Winning was pretty Otto-matic from 46 through 55)
He played Hoops for One season. I Never said he wasn't athletic for his day. I Played College Hoops (NAIA School very good player at that level) and I could have played in the NBL back then if I had the same skills. It was a different age . Different Era...we are talking about an athlete from the 40`s !!! Come on...The Browns had O-lineman weighing 213 , 231 and 233 to name a few.
Full Name: Alexander Arrasi Agase
Position: G/LB
Height: 5' 10'' Weight: 210
Player Bio Top
Full Name: Louis Joseph Rymkus
Position: OT/T
Height: 6' 4'' Weight: 231
Full Name: William K. Willis
(Deacon)
Position: G
Height: 6' 2'' Weight: 213
FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
He played Hoops for One season. I Never said he wasn't athletic for his day. I Played College Hoops (NAIA School very good player at that level) and I could have played in the NBL back then if I had the same skills. It was a different age . Different Era...we are talking about an athlete from the 40`s !!! Come on...The Browns had O-lineman weighing 213 , 231 and 233 to name a few.Full Name: Alexander Arrasi Agase
Position: G/LB
Height: 5' 10'' Weight: 210
Player Bio Top
Full Name: Louis Joseph Rymkus
Position: OT/T
Height: 6' 4'' Weight: 231
Full Name: William K. Willis
(Deacon)
Position: G
Height: 6' 2'' Weight: 213
So he did better with smaller linemen. Imagine how well he could do if he had some of the beastly lineman these QBs have protecting them today.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
Drew 122 106 55-51-0 2697 4164 64.8 30646 202 4.9 110 2.6Otto 126 114 57-13-1 1464 2626 55.8 23584 174 6.6 135 5.1
Games Record att comp % yrds TD INT
You cant tell me for a second that you believe that the Defenses in 1946-1955 Compared to Todays Defenses. Blazing Speed and Brute Force. Specialization. Lost in the past.
So, if the defenses are so much faster and better, what makes Otto Graham from being faster and better. Sports medicine has come a long way since Graham's heyday. If he was put on the same workout and diet regimen the players are on today, he'd most likely be just as good. People don't evolve into superhumans in a mere 50 years.
So, if the defenses are so much faster and better, what makes Otto Graham from being faster and better. Sports medicine has come a long way since Graham's heyday. If he was put on the same workout and diet regimen the players are on today, he'd most likely be just as good. People don't evolve into superhumans in a mere 50 years.
He is what he was... IF is a Big Word. The Speed of this game is like Lightening vs. the 40`s and 50`s. This isnt even an argument. Your just painting yourselves as delusional.
Climbing the Stairway...To SEVEN !! -
FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
He played Hoops for One season. I Never said he wasn't athletic for his day. I Played College Hoops (NAIA School very good player at that level) and I could have played in the NBL back then if I had the same skills. It was a different age . Different Era...we are talking about an athlete from the 40`s !!! Come on...The Browns had O-lineman weighing 213 , 231 and 233 to name a few.Full Name: Alexander Arrasi Agase
Position: G/LB
Height: 5' 10'' Weight: 210
Player Bio Top
Full Name: Louis Joseph Rymkus
Position: OT/T
Height: 6' 4'' Weight: 231
Full Name: William K. Willis
(Deacon)
Position: G
Height: 6' 2'' Weight: 213
So he did better with smaller linemen. Imagine how well he could do if he had some of the beastly lineman these QBs have protecting them today.
So he did better with smaller linemen. Imagine how well he could do if he had some of the beastly lineman these QBs have protecting them today.
LOL... OK Your right I quit . Your skull is thick enough to go out and Block for Quinn with NO Helmet on. LOL. You win ... I quit.
-
The only thing I know is Ben would be just as Gay in 1957 as he is now....
-
it doesn't matter how many facts you present, most steeler fans will never submit to the truth and they will always spin a story to avoid admitting they're wrong.
i guess they have forgotten how life was for them prior to the browns closing up shop. the browns had the edge in the overall record between the two teams prior to 99 and it took 4 dramatic events to help the steelers finally surpass the browns in the overall record:
1. the city of cleveland losing the browns.
2. the browns being screwed by the nfl upon it's return into the nfl by not being given an adequate amount of time and money to prepare for the upcoming season (see the book, "false start", by terry pluto.
3. browns owner al lerner dying.
4. an inexperienced (but die-hard browns fan and son of al lerner) randy lerner taking over the team and having to rely on people like butch davis, carmen policy, etc to help him steer the ship.
- randy made his fair share of mistakes, but what novice owner with no experience and no one to give him wise counsel wouldn't? atleast he's spending money trying to correct his mistakes unlike people like mike brown in cincy.
that's why these debates always turn out the same way. most steeler fans have a selective memory and choose to only recognize things that go in their favor. they say the same old crap regardless of what board it is. they even go as far as resorting to attacking people personally with cheap insults and false accusations (that aren't even relevant to the debate) as a means of weaseling out of admitting they're wrong. it's what is to be expected from people who take time out of their day to troll. i think they're rather hillarious, to be honest with you.
all i know is that holmgren is one of the best football minds to be hired by the browns since paul brown and i hope he gets this team back on track so the browns can return to being a dominant force in pro-football.
-
So, if the defenses are so much faster and better, what makes Otto Graham from being faster and better. Sports medicine has come a long way since Graham's heyday. If he was put on the same workout and diet regimen the players are on today, he'd most likely be just as good. People don't evolve into superhumans in a mere 50 years.
He is what he was... IF is a Big Word. The Speed of this game is like Lightening vs. the 40`s and 50`s. This isnt even an argument. Your just painting yourselves as delusional.
FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
He is what he was... IF is a Big Word. The Speed of this game is like Lightening vs. the 40`s and 50`s. This isnt even an argument. Your just painting yourselves as delusional.As I said before, the evolutionary process of man isn't a quick thing. I highly doubt the caliber of men today are that much more athletically able than those of eras past.
The only difference with the athletes of today is the time dedicated to their bodies. I just read an article not too long ago on Matt Birk's life in the offseason. In the article, he claimed that there was less than a month that he was actually "off" from football, and those couple of weeks were immediately upon the conclusion of their season. The amounts these athletes go through to get to the next level are insane. The sacrifices they have to make are crazy.
In the 40's, 50's and 60's, the workout regimen was nothing like what it is today. The men smoked cigarettes and drank beer regularly. The diets were terrible. Sports medicine was a baby then, it barely even existed. Today, you walk into any gym and you'll find a $1,200 machine that works solely on your obliques. You'll probably see another $2,500 machine that is used solely to work on your glutes. Look around some more, and I'm sure you'll find a $3,000 machine designed specifically to work out your trapezius. Those didn't exist then. The athletes of that era were in worse shape, sure, but that's not because of any fault of theirs. It's simply because the "technology" hadn't evolved to the point it's at now. The level at which they could peak is nowhere near what it is today. And I'm not even factoring in any type of performance enhancers, protein supplements, or vitamins of any sort. Not to mention the people in the NFL today have more than likely been working out regularly since they were in middle school.
Another thing to consider is the fact that many of the men playing during Graham's era had to have second jobs in the offseason to make ends meet. It's not as if everybody was paid highly in those days. There was no CBA, no real structure to the contracts given. I'm sure a lot of men had financial trouble in the offseason. This all takes away from the time they could have spent focusing on their diets and bodies.
-
FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
He is what he was... IF is a Big Word. The Speed of this game is like Lightening vs. the 40`s and 50`s. This isnt even an argument. Your just painting yourselves as delusional.As I said before, the evolutionary process of man isn't a quick thing. I highly doubt the caliber of men today are that much more athletically able than those of eras past.
The only difference with the athletes of today is the time dedicated to their bodies. I just read an article not too long ago on Matt Birk's life in the offseason. In the article, he claimed that there was less than a month that he was actually "off" from football, and those couple of weeks were immediately upon the conclusion of their season. The amounts these athletes go through to get to the next level are insane. The sacrifices they have to make are crazy.
In the 40's, 50's and 60's, the workout regimen was nothing like what it is today. The men smoked cigarettes and drank beer regularly. The diets were terrible. Sports medicine was a baby then, it barely even existed. Today, you walk into any gym and you'll find a $1,200 machine that works solely on your obliques. You'll probably see another $2,500 machine that is used solely to work on your glutes. Look around some more, and I'm sure you'll find a $3,000 machine designed specifically to work out your trapezius. Those didn't exist then. The athletes of that era were in worse shape, sure, but that's not because of any fault of theirs. It's simply because the "technology" hadn't evolved to the point it's at now. The level at which they could peak is nowhere near what it is today. And I'm not even factoring in any type of performance enhancers, protein supplements, or vitamins of any sort. Not to mention the people in the NFL today have more than likely been working out regularly since they were in middle school.
Another thing to consider is the fact that many of the men playing during Graham's era had to have second jobs in the offseason to make ends meet. It's not as if everybody was paid highly in those days. There was no CBA, no real structure to the contracts given. I'm sure a lot of men had financial trouble in the offseason. This all takes away from the time they could have spent focusing on their diets and bodies.
As I said before, the evolutionary process of man isn't a quick thing. I highly doubt the caliber of men today are that much more athletically able than those of eras past.
The only difference with the athletes of today is the time dedicated to their bodies. I just read an article not too long ago on Matt Birk's life in the offseason. In the article, he claimed that there was less than a month that he was actually "off" from football, and those couple of weeks were immediately upon the conclusion of their season. The amounts these athletes go through to get to the next level are insane. The sacrifices they have to make are crazy.
In the 40's, 50's and 60's, the workout regimen was nothing like what it is today. The men smoked cigarettes and drank beer regularly. The diets were terrible. Sports medicine was a baby then, it barely even existed. Today, you walk into any gym and you'll find a $1,200 machine that works solely on your obliques. You'll probably see another $2,500 machine that is used solely to work on your glutes. Look around some more, and I'm sure you'll find a $3,000 machine designed specifically to work out your trapezius. Those didn't exist then. The athletes of that era were in worse shape, sure, but that's not because of any fault of theirs. It's simply because the "technology" hadn't evolved to the point it's at now. The level at which they could peak is nowhere near what it is today. And I'm not even factoring in any type of performance enhancers, protein supplements, or vitamins of any sort. Not to mention the people in the NFL today have more than likely been working out regularly since they were in middle school.
Another thing to consider is the fact that many of the men playing during Graham's era had to have second jobs in the offseason to make ends meet. It's not as if everybody was paid highly in those days. There was no CBA, no real structure to the contracts given. I'm sure a lot of men had financial trouble in the offseason. This all takes away from the time they could have spent focusing on their diets and bodies.
just to add to your points, the players back then had less protective equipment and they also didn't sit out with an injury as long as they do now in the nfl. there weren't a lot of rules and laws that were geared toward the health of the players back then either. one could argue that the players were tougher back then.
-
Do these Steeler guys have a little crush on Otto or what?
He's passed on guys, you have no shot at him.
-
Imagine if Otto had the ancillary help the good ole Steelers have?
Honestly, I haven't seen Steeler fan get this owned on here in a long time. Gotta go back to when Stoner spent a day in his basement putting together a picture package for us. He explained how Pitt got a first down by another phantom ref call that went their way even when the ball was a good 3 inches short.
Then there was the time Flugs got one of these numbnuts to spend a week doing research on steroids. The conclusion was that San Diego did them in the early 60's. Man was that a great thread.
These Steeler trolls are the best. They are the elite of the elite Pitt fans. Just the fact they can type puts them in the top ten percent, and if one of these assclowns has a job that automatically carries them to top 3%.
Reminds me of a Steeler friend of mine who has a bachelors and a decent job. He can speak too, so us Browns fan friends of his rank him in top ten of Steeler fans across the world. No dippin, no Neckar hat, he dresses fairly well, doesn't have the same ten year old Queerdell jersey that looked like he rolled in dirt the day he got it, full set of teeth---all that shit. A real Steeler success story.
-
As I said before, the evolutionary process of man isn't a quick thing. I highly doubt the caliber of men today are that much more athletically able than those of eras past.
The only difference with the athletes of today is the time dedicated to their bodies. I just read an article not too long ago on Matt Birk's life in the offseason. In the article, he claimed that there was less than a month that he was actually "off" from football, and those couple of weeks were immediately upon the conclusion of their season. The amounts these athletes go through to get to the next level are insane. The sacrifices they have to make are crazy.
In the 40's, 50's and 60's, the workout regimen was nothing like what it is today. The men smoked cigarettes and drank beer regularly. The diets were terrible. Sports medicine was a baby then, it barely even existed. Today, you walk into any gym and you'll find a $1,200 machine that works solely on your obliques. You'll probably see another $2,500 machine that is used solely to work on your glutes. Look around some more, and I'm sure you'll find a $3,000 machine designed specifically to work out your trapezius. Those didn't exist then. The athletes of that era were in worse shape, sure, but that's not because of any fault of theirs. It's simply because the "technology" hadn't evolved to the point it's at now. The level at which they could peak is nowhere near what it is today. And I'm not even factoring in any type of performance enhancers, protein supplements, or vitamins of any sort. Not to mention the people in the NFL today have more than likely been working out regularly since they were in middle school.
Another thing to consider is the fact that many of the men playing during Graham's era had to have second jobs in the offseason to make ends meet. It's not as if everybody was paid highly in those days. There was no CBA, no real structure to the contracts given. I'm sure a lot of men had financial trouble in the offseason. This all takes away from the time they could have spent focusing on their diets and bodies.
just to add to your points, the players back then had less protective equipment and they also didn't sit out with an injury as long as they do now in the nfl. there weren't a lot of rules and laws that were geared toward the health of the players back then either. one could argue that the players were tougher back then.
just to add to your points, the players back then had less protective equipment and they also didn't sit out with an injury as long as they do now in the nfl. there weren't a lot of rules and laws that were geared toward the health of the players back then either. one could argue that the players were tougher back then.
Oh, there's no argument on my side that players were tougher back then. I believe it took a special kind of man to play football in the "way back when". It took a real set of stainless steel balls as well as a true passion for the game. They weren't getting paid millions upon of millions of dollars to play. They weren't constantly on television, endorsing god knows what product. They played just to play. There were no prima-donna receivers. The men that played then were the type of guys that ate corrugated steel and broken glass sandwiches. They were real men.
Now, don't get me wrong. I believe a majority of the players today have a true passion for the game as well. But money plays a huge factor in their decision making processes, too. It's just not comparable to the glory days of football.
-
When they wear the throw back jerseys, they should wear the leather helmets too. Just to flip the script, If Bree's played back then, he would have been tough shit too.
-
When they wear the throw back jerseys, they should wear the leather helmets too. Just to flip the script, If Bree's played back then, he would have been tough shit too.
When they wear the throw back jerseys, they should wear the leather helmets too. Just to flip the script, If Bree's played back then, he would have been tough shit too.
Hilarious. But entertaining...continue. And your guys took the "good old days " Bait and Ran like Forrest Gump !!!! Bravissimo !!!
-
On a day when the Steelers are still the Super Bowl champs, its great to see one of the best corners in league history get voted into the HOF. Congrats Dick Lebeau! The Browns probably shouldn't have cut you....
"Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil" - Niccolo Machiavelli "Expectation is the root of all heartache." - William Shakespeare "In time we hate that which we often fear. " - William Shakespeare "I DO ROIDS ... and GIVE HEAD" - ATENEARS http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16312 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06166/698372-66.stm Friday said, "posters on Internet message boards hide behind their keyboards and write things they would never have the courage to say aloud in public. He said posters who write tasteless messages use football and the rivalries between teams as a way of getting out their aggression in a non-violent manner." Predicted 2010 Steelers record from this board: 7-9; 6-10; 8-8; 9-7; 10-6 -
On a day when the Steelers are still the Super Bowl champs, its great to see one of the best corners in league history get voted into the HOF. Congrats Dick Lebeau! The Browns probably shouldn't have cut you....
Sivlerback DPOY said:
On a day when the Steelers are still the Super Bowl champs, its great to see one of the best corners in league history get voted into the HOF. Congrats Dick Lebeau! The Browns probably shouldn't have cut you....Well S~Back we cut Unitas and Dawson. SO... all teams have skeletons in the closet.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login