@peterbell said:

Today is the one year anniversary of us trading Brady Quinn to Denver for Peyton Hillis, a 6th round pick last year and a conditional pick this year. We all thought that we had a good draft based on Hillis' potential but none of us knew that it would pay off this big.

Thank you Eric Mangini..Mike and Tom didn't even know who this cat was until EM got them on board

Even a blind Pig finds an acorn once in awhile. mangini gutted the team with stupid trades, this was under holmgren heckert with mangini

lobbying. Mangini/Kokinis were a train wreck at deal making.

I cannot comment on players I did not see yet I live in Atlanta and have watched a lot of AJ Green at Georgia. While I have lived in Atlanta over33 years i am and always will be a Browns fan.

That said we have had a lot of pathetic wrs since our return in 1999 and have never had a wr of this caliber. What can I say, not since Webster Slaughter left town have we had a wr with soft hands, a nice burst to get separation, great adjustment to the ball, looks the ball in, and he is a tall target to boot. I believe he is larry Fitzgerald and better than the Ga tech wr who landed in Detroit. This kid is that good. when you can get a real difference maker you get him.

Now I may ask are the dlinmen as good as any the last 5 years? Is peterson the best DB in college in the last 5 drafts? This kid is the real deal. he will help colt mcCoy and make our other pedestrian wrs better to keep up with him. he will raise the bar for the entire group and make every QB better. that said what if a top qb is available in rd 2? why not take him and TRADE him into multiple picks at DL, OT, CB, or safety. I hear you about hating to take wrs yet this kid is special. I have not seen enough Peterson to remark. I would even take camini if he is available in the second round( he won't be).

I cannot comment on players I did not see yet I live in Atlanta and have watched a lot of AJ Green at Georgia. While I have lived in Atlanta over33 years i am and always will be a Browns fan.

That said we have had a lot of pathetic wrs since our return in 1999 and have never had a wr of this caliber. What can I say, not since Webster Slaughter left town have we had a wr with soft hands, a nice burst to get separation, great adjustment to the ball, looks the ball in, and he is a tall target to boot. I believe he is larry Fitzgerald and better than the Ga tech wr who landed in Detroit. This kid is that good. when you can get a real difference maker you get him.

Now I may ask are the dlinmen as good as any the last 5 years? Is peterson the best DB in college in the last 5 drafts? This kid is the real deal. he will help colt mcCoy and make our other pedestrian wrs better to keep up with him. he will raise the bar for the entire group and make every QB better. that said what if a top qb is available in rd 2? why not take him and TRADE him into multiple picks at DL, OT, CB, or safety. I hear you about hating to take wrs yet this kid is special. I have not seen enough Peterson to remark. I would even take camini if he is available in the second round( he won't be).

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I'd rather read his response than your dick sucking Shaun Rogers response.

He was old, he didn't perform save for a few blocked extra points, and he never practiced. It was a good salary dump, we can turn his money into someone useful.

again thanks for the juvenile response. Rogers apparently was still not fully recovered from his Achilles. teams usually do not drop

top dlineman and many teams were on him fast. Time will tell by his play how washed up he is and whether we needed him or not.

do you have an oral fixation. Now for a real loser Tim Couch was it.

Hillis-iz-Boss said:

Holy shit can you stop writing in caps.

M<y keyboard got stuck and I had to clean it and lift the caps lock key.

Thanks for being the keyboard cop.

@thomaspro said:

If Peterson is there at 6 you have to take him. Not only is he a shut down corner but he can do kick off and punt returns as well. This then would allows Cribbs to either concentrate on being a WR. Or, we can look into trading him to fill another position needed such as a DB, DL, RT, or Safety. I know this will not be a popular idea with most people since most fans consider him to be a scared cow on the Browns team.

THERE IS NO GOT TOS IN THIS DRAFT. WHILE PETERSON IS GREAT YOU HAVE GREEN, DARIUS AND OTHERS. IF A TEAM REALLY LOVE NEWTON AND IS NOT TOO FAR DOWN I TRADE FOR MORE PICK. YET I AGREE PETERSON LOOKS SPECIAL. LAST YEAR I WAS DISAPPOINTED WE DID NOT GET THE TENESSEE SAFETY AND HAD TO SETTLE FOR HADEN, WHO IS AN EXCELLEMT PLAYER. THIS YEAR WE HAVE A SHOT AT AN EXCELLENT DE,DT,OT,CB, WR, QB OR WE TRADE DOWN FOR MORE PICKS.

mikeyP72 said:

I disagree, E Wright was injured and got put on an island with aggressive defensive blitzes and 1 on 1 coverages against #1 WR's.

If Haden can continue to grow and take over the #1 spot there is no reason E Wright can't handle opposite of him. It would likely be better than Sheldon Brown. That guy just flat out doesn't have it anymore.

MIKEY, EW NEVER SEEMED TO RECOVER FROM THE ISLAND HE WAS MAROONED ON IN THE RAVENS GAME WITH NEVER A SAFETY IN RADAR DISTANCE.

THE KID WAS A RISING TALENT. THIS IS ONE AREA THE PATIENCE OF THE VETERAN DEFENSIVE STAFF WILL HELP ERIC WRIGHT RETURN TO FORM.

@nw220 said:

Agreed about the charcter concerns with Fairley, i see him as alot more cocky and aggroant which could be a good thing or it could make you Chad Ocho Cinco...Warren Sapp was Cocky as well but a hell of a player btw he thinks Dareus is alot better than Fairley

MAKES ME THINK OF GERRARD WARREN WHO HAD A COLLEGE MEAN STREAK BUT WAS SO SO IN HIS COMMITMENT TO TRAINING.

DARIUS NO CONTEST, YET IF FAIRLY...TO HIGH A PICK TO OVERLOOK THE BIG IF.

@theclevelandsound said:

Remember him? He was emerging as another undrafted steal coming out of training camp before he got hurt. Do you think the Browns will keep him this year? And if so, how do you think he will figure into our offense, if at all.

WHEN YOUR COMPETITION IS STUCKY, MOMASS, ROBISKIE, CRIBBS IF YOU HAVE ANY COMPETITIVE JUICES YOU REALIZE A NEW COACHING STAFF IS A NEW OPPORTUNITY

TO MAKE NEW IMPRESSIONS. HIS COMPETITION IS MEDIOCRE SO ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

@nickers said:

akronjoe,you are a moron,....go like back to school or sumtin lol

Thanks for the articulate response.

@sj_browns said:

our gm didn't call rogers fat, lazy or a slob. you might want to read a couple of posts in this thread before you make such an incorrect statement. rich4steelers is the one who called him that.

I did not write clear enough the words of our Gm cast aspersions on Rogers not wanting to practice(lazy), wanting to play for a winner so he was unmotivated(lazy). Fat slob where words others used.

I saw a player fight through a devastating injury and be on the field on Sundays. fat slob is what others in this board called him. heck, its in the title.

What I want in a Gm is PROFESSIONALISM.

>Heckert is by far the best gm sine the return, not a high bar to step over.

>yet we a cut a top dlineman in an area where we are razor thin.

>we trade for a DE and never use him and dump Harrison ( veiled mock of Mangini)

> does a 180 from last year when he announces we need no wr help.

> declares "tiffany" Pashos as The Guy at RT

>declares Gocong as the Mlber huh?

> declares mr. Glass DQ as OLBer

This is Phil savage stuff. " I only draft em i don't coach em".

I want more from heckert. besides for heckert to call Rogers a fat slob must mean he never passes

any mirrors.

I really hate to see our GM smear a player on the way out. It is the kind of conduct one needs to butress a shaky stance.

Rogers{ according to profootball \talk.com) sustained a severe Achilles tear in 2009 and missed the remainder of the season yet was a very productive player until that point.

never read he was a lazy fat slob at that point.

Come 2010 the guy is still hobbled by the injury and often does not practice till Friday SO HE CAN PLAY INJURED.

the guy still played, much less effective yet on a 360lb plus human pushing against other 300lb plus humans you

may see why the leg was still balky, yet he still played aganst the advice of his agent.

Now he is lazy. We cut a man on the mend from a horrible injury from a razor thin talented dline going to a 4-3

and to justify the move we malign him? Watch Rogers produce at a high level again. you want to get rid of 5.5 million

in wasted cap space cut the horrible jake delhomme.

I expect more class from heckert. I disagree with this move and the fact we mocked him out the door

as other teams line up for him is heckert putting a rose on this turd.

@the-gipper said:

I disagree with you on Couch. Couch actually did quite well for being the first player taken on what was a paper team.

He took them from a paper team to a playoffs in what? 4 years. That is pretty good. And the team never, ever, never put any kind of offensive line in front of him. Had this guy had a Joe Thomas, Steinbach, and Alex Mack in front of him, players who could actually block, no telling how good he may have been. His record was 3-4 against the Steelers, and he led the team to the playoffs. No one else has been much better since. The downfall of his career were major shoulder injuries, not an inability to read defenses

.

I agree the line in front of Couch stunk and I agree that is vital to a QB yet Couch could never string enough good games to ever be consistent.

He could not read defenses and would go into brain lock with any blitz and eventually lost his job to weak armed but stronger minded kelly Holcomb.

Couch was a failure yet with the horrid way we stocked talent around him I agree we will never know if he could have at least been decent.

@chicopee-john said:

Colonials Plan To Speak To Eric Mangini About Coaching Vacancy

As the UFL Hartford Colonials begin their search for a new coach, Hartford native Eric Mangini will be candidate to replace Chris Palmer.

Team owner William Mayer said in a statement Thursday that he hopes to talk to Mangini, who was fired by the Cleveland Bowns after two seasons as head coach. It's unknown if Mangini would be interested in the UFL, but the Colonials have identified him as a top candidate.

Mayer met with UFL commissioner Michael Huyghue for two hours Wednesday in New York before leaving for a business trip to Italy. Mayer will be back next week, when the search for a coach accelerates.

"He is one of the people we would hope to talk to," Mayer said. "What comes out of that, I don't know. I've been looking at our Facebook site, and it certainly has generated a lot of conversation. He's a Connecticut native and he's had experience. Whether we end up doing anything with him or not, we haven't sat down yet, so it's not at all clear whether this timing would work for him. . . . That doesn't mean we're in negotiations or that he's going to be the next coach, but he's certainly on the list."

The Colonials (3-5 in their first season in Hartford) are also searching for a team president. Palmer was coach/general manager before returning to the NFL as offensive coordinator of the Tennessee Titans.

"I certainly celebrate his move," Mayer said. "I talked to Chris at some length before he made his decision, and it was a difficult decision. As somebody told me, the past is the past, and I can't change it. I wish him the best."

Palmer was a Southern Connecticut graduate who coached at New Haven, so he had ties to the state. Mangini, a graduate of Bulkeley-Hartford and Wesleyan, would also bring a local connection.

But Mayer said that's not the only criteria.

"It's a little part of the deal," Mayer said. "When we came to Hartford, Chris' ties to the community were very important, and they would continue to be important. That factor, on the list of the top 10, is a little lower than it was. Overall, it's important, but slightly less so since we've spent a season in Hartford. On balance, if you have some local ties, that would be great."

As for holdovers from Palmer's staff, quarterbacks coach Dave Ragone is also considered a candidate for either the head job or an assistant job. Palmer strongly endorsed Ragone when he spoke to Mayer early in the week.

"We are looking for a head coach who to some degree, has some of the same traits that Chris had," Mayer said. "There's quite an element of teaching, and the concept of teaching is really important to help them develop on the field and off the field. It's highly likely the person will carry the title of coach and general manager."

There is some kind of karma that the a UFL team went from Browns Coach Chris palmer to Browns coach Mangini.

@wrrebel said:

He is very injury prone but if he could stay healthy is great..

I wouldn't mind if we signed him to an incentive deal

If he could stay healthy he would not have been cut. If hardesty did not have an injury riddled college career he was a first round talent. We took the risk and surprise

he got injured again. Donte stallworth teased a half a dozen teams with POTENTIAL yet he was the first player i ever saw miss 5 games getting hurt WARMING UP before his first game vs Dallas.

If Toney pashos did not get injured everywhere he went he could be a solid RT, we took the risk and pfft, he got injured again. just say NO.

@the-gipper said:

The last overall #1 draft pick to have become a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame was Troy Aikman taken by the Cowboys in 1989. Since then, here is the list of the #1 overall draft selectees:

1990 Jeff George

1991 Russell Maryland

1992 Steve Emtman

1993 Drew Bledsoe

1994 Dan Wilkinson

1995 Ki-Jana Carter

1996 Keyshawn Johnson

1997 Orlando Pace

1998 Peyton Manning

1999 Tim Couch

2000 Courtney Brown

2001 Michael Vick

2002 David Carr

2003 Carson Palmer

2004 Eli Manning

2005 Alex Smith

2006 Mario Williams

2007 Jamarcus Russell

2008 Jack Long

2009 Matthew Stafford

Who among these are potential Hall of Famers? I see perhaps two right now.

2010 Sam Bradford

This shows you haw the "experts" ovverate and what their measure is of great.

1990) george: great arm no heart

1991) maryland: decent but you expect more

1992) Entemen: injury plauged

1993) Bledsoe: all arm, never could read defenses well

1994) Wilkenson: no motivation a total bust

1995) kijana carter: injury pron1996: Keyshawn Johnson Mr. me thought he was twice as good as reality

1997) Orlando pace: solid player sometimes a top player

1998) peyton manning, sure wish he was thwere in 1999 HOF career

1999) Couch: clark decide to make a guy who NEVER HAD A COLLEGE PLAYBOOK his #1 pick at QB

waited 5 years until it was painfully obvious the guy did not have a clue reading defenses.

200) Cournet" looks like tarzan plays like Jane" Brown: Mr. Glass

2001) mike Vick) did Atlanta a favor by screwing up as now they have a real QB

2002) david carr: was highway wreckage fast

2003) carson Palmer: never the same after he was kimo Van Olhoffened

2004) Eli manning: the lesser manning has his moments

2005) Alex smith: time has run out in SF

2006) mario Williams: super mario plays well

2007) Jemarcus Russel: Opie(Phil Savage) was so hot for this guy I thanked God the raiders were more stupid

2008) Jake Long?

2009) matt Stafford: mr glass get injured an awful lot

2010) Bradford: A hit

It absolutely killed the browns to whiff every year with the top pick, especially since we drafted so high.

Coach and brown were horrible busts. Then Gerard warren and we bypass Thomlinson, and Winslow decides to play Evil Knevil,

William druggie green, and Jeff injury faine, then braylon "oops" edwards..only Joe Thomss in the entire decade was any good.

@slurp-and-burp said:

The Browns are 4-20 against the Steelers since their rebirth into the NFL in 1999.

The Browns have met the Steelers twice in the playoffs in the history of the NFL and have lost both games to the Steelers.

These are the facts not lies.

Slurp I am old enough to remember when the steelers were homecoming games so the browns could get 40 points yet that is a distant memory as the steelers

draft well, have smart Gms, top coaches, keep their talent and play the same hard nosed physical football every year.

I have seen the browns trot out rookie gms who never did the job, rookie head coaches or failed fromer coaches , draft horribly,

coach horribly, and watch them beaten like a division 2 team.

Finally heckert ended the hot streak of stupid that went from Clark to Garcia to Opie to Kokinis.

Yet Shurmer seems to fit right in with such luminaries as Palmer to Davis to Crennel to Mangini to Shurmer, all rookie HCs and one a shotgun wedding to a guy freshly shoved out the door in NY.

Shurmer has no head coach experience and was a mediocre OC.

We go from Ryan, who performed defensive alchemy with so little talent to "by the book" Jauron who promises a new scheme on a team desperately thin at Dline and we cut our best player

(Rogers).

It is 1999 again folks, unless Shurmer pulls a blanton Collier and heckert has the most amazing draft of his career, and we draft a lawrence taylor on defense.

I just see it getting REALLY Really ugly next year.

@rich4eagle said:

1964 Cleveland Browns

The Great, the Good, The excellence.........and All The World is Brownstown............what a year 1964!

After the great start in 1963, and weak ending, the 1964 season started with modest expectations for the Browns. They had now missed playing in a Championship game six years in a row. Unheard OF! Blanton Collier, however, solidified his position as head coach. The fine season of Dr. Frank Ryan in 1963 solidified the QB position. They had the great Jim Brown and his running mate Ernie Green and a powerful running game.

Two super things happened in the 1964 draft! They selected future hall of famer Paul Warfield with the first pick and little known future Hall of Famer Leroy Kelly with the eight round pick. Those who ever watched the game and understand it know that Paul Warfield was one of the greatest WR's to ever play the game a TD machine who blocked like a linebacker and leaped like a high jumper. In fact he was an Olympic broad jumper. Kelly was a special teams player that year. He was so quick off the snap in later years he often got called for illegal motion when not. The table was set for an offensive powerhouse in 1964....and wow was it! Gary Collins, Paul Warfield at WR and Johnny Brewer at TE and the tandem of Jim Brown and Ernie Green at RB. Leroy Kelly returning kick offs and punts. Jim Brown gained 1442 yards and averaged 5.2 yards a carry but only scored nine TD's. Collins scored 8 and Warfield 9. Amazingly, Ernie Green scored the most 10 TD's as the Offense rolled all year scoring 50 TD's.

The offensive line was Dick Schafrath at LT, John Wooten at LG, John Morrow at C, Gene Hickerson at RG, and John Brown at RT

The defense was named the rubber band defense bending but never breaking. They had two excellent pass rushing ends in Bill Glass and Paul Wiggin and the DT's were Jim Kanicki and Dick Modzelewski. The linebackers were Jim Houston OL, Vince Costello MLB, and Galen Fiss OL. The corners were Bernie Parrish and Walter Beach. The Safeties were Bobby Franklin and Larry Benz

A interesting tidbit was the Browns gave up more first downs (275) than they achieved (255) and were outgained 337 yds per game to 320 yds per game. But they were a scoring machine putting up 415 points in those 14 games and allowing 293. Thus the bend don't break terminology. They played an earlier version of cover two which made yards harder near the goal line. This was a hold over strategy from Paul Brown days. The offense was just explosive. Paul Brown loved offense and Blanton Collier was a true offensive mind.

Check out the scores of the games...........the season started beating the Redskins 27-13 followed by an offensive shootout 33-33 tie with the St. Louis Cardinals. Then they had a 28-20 victory at Philadelphia. Then they whacked the Cowboys 27-6. It always makes me happy when the Cowboys get hammered by the Browns.

Next, were the rival Steelers at home on Saturday night..(the first ever NFL Saturday night game).....a Modell innovation before 80,000 fans looking for win number four. What a shocker, the Steelers John Henry Johnson, who was bruiser of a running back much like Kevin Mack, ran over the Browns for over 200 yards and the Browns suffered a terrible 23-7 loss. It would be the worst loss of the season.

The Browns then reeled off five straight wins. Whipping in succession at Dallas 20-16, the Giants 42-20, at Pittsburgh 30-17, Washington 34-24, and the Lions 37-21. Racking up points by big numbers weekly. With the record now 8-1-1 they went to Green Bay and lost to the Packers 28-21. Then beat the Eagles 38-21, lost at St. Louis 19-28 and then in crucial season ending game massacring the Giants 52-20 in New York finishing the season 11-3-1. They won the Eastern Conference earning the right to play the vaunted Baltimore Colts in the NFL Championship game.

On a cloudy day on December 27th, the game started out as a defensive struggle. The two best offensive teams in football scored zero points in the first half. The Colts offense was the most prolific in the NFL besting the Browns as they set an NFL scoring record. Lou Groza, the kickoff kicker and field goal kicker and a Browns great repeatedly made the tackles downfield on the kickoffs. Something you will never see again.

In the second half, the Browns offense went into high gear, Jim Brown ran wild and Frank Ryan repeatedly connected downfield on passes. He hit Gary Collins three times for TD passes. Groza kicked two field goals. The Defense went out of body, from bend don't break all year, to terrorizing Johnny Unitas and vaunted Baltimore offense. The defense was lead by Galen Fiss who played the greatest game of his career in the biggest game of his career. The picture of his smashing Unitas on one play is a landmark Browns photo. When the overcast day ended the uniforms were dirty and the beloved Browns were World Champs by a score of 27-0. I was one happy young man.

The greatest game of a lifetime. Perfect! A half of offensive perfection and a total defensive domination and a shutout. What a day. BTW, that score 27-0 was the last time the NFL Championship game ended in a shutout including all the Super Bowls. Forty seven years now since the big game was a shutout. The Browns were indeed an offensive juggernaut. To this day, I still believe that opposed to popular opinion in the end it is offense that wins championships. But that is another story. I cannot tell you how many times that year the Browns offense answered every time an opponent took a lead or threatened for a lead.

The reason I am a browns fan is when i was nine was the year the browns won the championship and i was hooked. To see stars like warfield, Collins, Brown, Green and a great Oline was to see a scoring machine. the defense was effective yet not among the elite by any means.

since the return in 1999 I have seen the most sorry excuse for football ever perpetrated on professional sports fans. I have seen front office dunces like dwight Clark and carmen policy hailed as "architects of the 49er dynasty and wanted to choke and see them make a mockery on the browns memory. I have seen Butch davis and his obtuse side kick Pete Garcia draft a bunch of lazy front runners and watch him implode. I have seen opie and romeo coach and draft as ineptly as the first two regimes and watch the fans delude themselves when a journeyman QB has a half a decent season and is rewarded with a top contract and the entire team goes in the sewer with him. I have seen the shotgun wedding to mangini and his inept sidekick kokinis rip apart the team and make mind numbing one sided deals. Now i see holmgren hiring a man with a razor thin resume as his next head coach and I am holding back reflux.

We are so far removed from 1964 i cannot tell you. this team has so little talent and a front office hooked on it's own hubris. Blanton Collier was a wonderful egoless teacher whom his players loved and respected. Shurmer has almost no experience in comparison.

Wrs. there was warfield collins and now we have moMass and robiskie...from a 10 to a minus 3

We had brown, kelly, ernie green, we have hillis and injury riddled hardesty from a 10 to a 5

We had a fantastic Oline in 1964 and today mack and thomas and a poor right side as a unit from a 10 to a 4

We had Ryan at QB to Jake, Seneca and Colt from an 8 to a 4

We had a rock solid dline in 1964 and now we have abunch of journeyman and a solid Nosetacle from an 8 to a 2

We had a solid active group of veteran lbers and now we have a collection of average slow talent from an 8 to a 3

The weakest link in 1964 was the DB maybe a 5 and we still have one corner and one safety so we are at a 4

head Coach collier was a brilliant Offensive mind and Shurmer we had a 9 and maybe we have, at best a 5

We are so far from 1964 that the memories are all i have of great football. I see another very rough season this year.

Dumping Ryan was a HUGE mistake. Dumping Rogers a year out from an achilles was a mistake on an already razor thin dline. Losing

Seely on special teams to an assistant to the special teams coach in Chicago is going from a 10 to a 3...one of the ONLY areas where the browns scored a 10.

The worst thing was the steelers were a joke homecoming game in the 1960s and now beat our butts and HUMILIATE this team.

they love piling on TDS even late in games where the browns trail badly. I hate that more than anything.

The browns have been abysmal for over a decade because the front office and the owner have no clue. I have hopes for holmgren

yet he did some things that have dampened my hope.

1) he declared the horrid jake delhomme as a top qb with more left in his tank( I wanted to puke)

2) he declared the browns before 2010 season needed no veteran WR help( this on the worst set of wrs in the entire NFL)

3) he signed Mr. Glass tony pashos as the remedy at OT when his last two teams(Jacksonville and SF) ran his butt out of town for all'

his injuries and sorry play and surprise, he gets injured again.

4) Not inviting, no, begging Rob Ryan to stay and providing him with a talent infusion when the guy performed defensive alchemy to be

competitive with almost no talent, instead we give "by the book" Dick Jauron the job and go to a NEW scheme where we are thinnest DLine and cut

the best player from that corp(Rogers)

!964 is a distant memory getting ever fainter yet i still watch this team HOPING we get out of this hell of a football groundhog Day as we stay

stuck with inept front offices making and trades and drafts and taking overwhelmed coaches calling mind numbing simplistic gameplans

and watching my team EMBARRASSED.

While heckert has already shown he knows more about drafting then the previous four brain addled Gms, The Big Show has stumbled from

my early high hopes with some curious moves and hiring Shurmer and jauron are among them and letting seeley and ryan walk.

In the same division with The Steelers and the Ravens and seeing our moves thus far makes me quake that we are back to 1999 again.

@hoorta said:

Because you're a Steeler fan?

Ordinary? Buy a CLUE Rich. Dawson has moved into the top 50 all time points scored (#43 to be exact). He's in the TOP 10 career field goal accuracy- ahead of Adam Vinaterri I may add. This is one time I'll say the guy deserves every damn cent.

And as others have said, great kickers can last 20 years or so. Seven of the top ten guys in most games played were kickers (Morten Anderson tops the list) my dear friend. Dawson passes Don Cockroft this year in points scored- and if the Browns finally start playing decent- he has a legit shot at topping Lou Groza down the road.

In fact (regardless of who he plays for) me and Zombo (I hope) will allow you redemption on the Willie Green- Clarett bet. Buck for every point over under career on Dawson vs. Groza. Right now, that's $545 IOU. Seasonal updates will be prominently posted.

I don't get this? I Love Dawson and he deserves to get paid yet why would you NOT negotiate with him and then OVERPAY him and use the franchise tag? 1) I think this is a ONE year deal. Take your money this year while we fish for another kicker. Why not give him a bonus and pay him less, he may prove to be viable for more than one year. this way it is definitely one year and GONE.

If we sign him for 2 years for 2 mil each year maybe he plays so good we keep him BOTH years. I wonder by overpaying we have guarenteed dawson is gone after this year. had to put a bad spin on it.

I want dawson This year and maybe beyond. he may be one of those guys who can kick another three years very effectively. sadly, by overpaying This year all i think is we have committed(Front Office) to a ONE YEAR DEAL and gone. Short term thinking. I would rather have tendered a two year deal with an option for THREE.

@skinny said:

feel the same way. I told all my friends that I wanted to keep ryan and if that meant making him HC then thats what I would have done. The 3/4 was just taking shape here and now back to the 4\3, just in time for everyone else to switch to the 3/4. Should have no problem finding players for our system though

Skinny, I am brand new to the board and i too wanted the browns to do anything to keep Ryan. Now a defense with an aging and injured Dline, slow lbers, and half a rookie DB was a very solid scoring defense. Now we dump Shaun rogers, who played injured in 2010 off his torn Achilles in 2009, we let Ryan walk and go to a whole new scheme without the personnel to run it. We are in DEEEEP GUANO as Dick" By thew Book" Jauron and the browns will be bludgeoned by that book.