No real point, certainly not one looking forward. It's just griping. I'm not even upset with McCown, because he's mostly played well, which goes to show how just bitching about QBs is just bitching, I'll admit it.

Brian Hoyer is 14-8 as a starting QB from 2013-present.

With anyone other than Hoyer starting from 2013-present, the Browns are 3-23.

Hoyer's basic stats this year are 61.4 comp. %, 1,909 yards in 8 games, 15 TDs, 5 INTs, 1 fumble lost, 94.4 rating.

I'm a Browns fan. I'll watch tonight anyway.

@oldbrownsfan said:

I liked Hoyer when I saw him come in and win games when nobody else was getting the job done. I'm hoping he will be reasonable on a contract and we resign him.

Instead of "perfect" I like to think "we can win with Hoyer if there are enough right ideas around him" with all other facets of the team and within a game. If there's a better FA or a trade that can be made, go for it, but at this point, bringing Hoyer back is the best "bridge" - and like it or not, the bridge could be all the way to Sept. 2017 - and "best chance to win the next game."

The most optimistic way of looking at JFF and JFF vs. Hoyer/Shaw/whomever is he's entering his rookie year again. He flunked last year and is having to repeat the grade level.

Conditions have been perfect for Hoyer going 10-6 vs. 1-15 with anyone else?

I hope the team has Johnny's back. It didn't look like it vs. Cincinnati. More importantly at this point, I hope Johnny makes it to August so we can see and learn more, including what Johnny's learned with these 8 months compared to last May-Dec. What a low bar.

@gftchris said:

Dunno but the kid in the middle looks like Skeletor.

I was thinking PlaygroundLegend.

Doesn't the dude on the far right look like Stockton?

Maybe Johnny's new QB guru snapped the photo after a long day of working out.

Maybe it was in Berea.

Maybe new OC Flip was there so he and Johnny could get a jumpstart on those 3 am playbook cram sessions Johnny likes so much.

Maybe Hoyer snapped the photo and they were all there to study film.

AP source: Browns interview ex-Bears coach Trestman for OC

TOM WITHERS, AP Sports Writer

I'd like Hoyer (depending on $, if not, Locker or trade for Foles)

Kuhn

Cameron (depending on $, plus drafting a better "blocking" TE and moving Cameron to more of a WR)

Backup C (draft RT in round 1 or 2)

Houston (not depending on $)

Kitchen

Robertson

Gipson

Skrine

Any kicker

Whatever a clown did to him as a kid, I feel sorry for Stoned.

@tacosman said:

All I'm saying is that if you spend a first round draft pick on your qb, it would make sense to then spend your next first round pick on a player that goes well with the style of your first round qb. This is common sense.

So far Johnny's style is to pee his pants on the field. We need the best O-line in football history.

Shaw's closer to a capable backup at the moment than Johnny, so, maybe Johnny will clear waivers for the practice squad.

@tiamat63 said:

I don't hate Baltimore because they aren't the "Old Browns" anymore. There isn't a player on roster that was around for The Move and its time to get past that. I despise the Ratbirds for their whiny fanbase. I LOATHE Pittsburgh fans because they're toothless mountain people. Seriously, these are the fuckers that sell out WWE shows on a constant basis.

The Bungles I have less of an issue with. Been to a couple games in Cincy, most of the fans are cool with Browns fans. We have heartbreaking history and a long standing series of ineptitude.

For the most part, many of them would pull for the Brownies should we make the playoffs and they don't. Lets be honest with ourselves, if the Browns never existed, we'd all be Bengals fans.

Whether or not the Ravens are the "old Browns" never had anything to do with players for me. I never said, damn, those players are traitors, or, damn, Ray Lewis should've been our guy, and I didn't change my mind the day Matt Stover retired. If I was 20 years old, or 60 years old, I'd probably feel differently about the history and current significance. The Ravens will always be illegitimate to me. I hate the Steelers, too, but I can, at least on rare occasion, respect the franchise and its success.

I wouldn't be a Bengals fan if the Browns didn't exist. I'm a Browns fan because my dad grew up in Erie, Pa during the 60s. Some 20 years later, even though I grew up in Indiana, then Virginia, I was never given a choice in the matter. Had the Browns not existed I'm not sure what I'd be, and I got a test run for three seasons as an impressionable little mush head but my golf game got better on Sundays instead of caring more about some other NFL team. As for my dad, I guess he might've passed the Steelers or Bills along instead.

I can sorta root for the Packers. It's cool a town, literally a town, like that loves and, officially, supports the franchise. I don't root for, but enjoy watching, Seattle. I dream the Browns could copy Seattle, minus Sherman acting like a MF'g pro wrestler.

In our division, I know I'm in the minority, but I hate Baltimore the most. With Pittsburgh and Cincinnati, it's a rivalry, but just a football rivalry. The Move, The Fumble and The Drive combined to scar my childhood.

Give me a little luck and 10-6 all day long (while on the other side of the luck coin, Hawkins was the No. 1 receiver part of the time, Willis Mcgahee was the No. 1 RB in Hoyer's wins in 2013, one more defensive stop and good Hoyer/bad Hoyer would've been enough at Pitt, vs. Balt, and vs. Indy). How much good luck will we need for JFF to go 10-4 in his next 14 starts?

So, Hoyer can win with a good OL (even though 4 of his wins this year came after Mack went down), and Hoyer can win with a good run game (even though Hoyer's sometimes sucked, but sometimes "figured out ways to win" in games when we've had 0 running game), and Hoyer can "manage" a game well with decent help from Shanny getting his shit right. Good, fine, is it unicorns and show ponies? At least it's a plan and one which is relatively within reach. What's the general game plan to go with what Johnny's shown so far?

Fuck, I'm still rooting for JFF, but at this rate he'd have to really F'ing prove it over the next 8 months to win (actually fucking earn) the starting job and if that's the standard, what's he done over the last 8 months to have anyone, from a stupid-ass fan, to Donte Whitner, to Pettine, expect that'll happen?

And I'd like a better stopgap than Hoyer but the best available FAs at this point are Locker, Sanchez, Ponder, Pryor, Mallett, so well, maybe one of those guys in year one with Shanny is better than Hoyer in year two.

Finally, and I know, I know, but my simple fucking mind still winds up over and over again at

Hoyer 10-6, everyone else 1-15

So JFF will still be here in 2015, but after watching his 2 starting efforts, who thinks JFF would've been better earlier in the season? Who thinks he'll be ready week 1 next season? - mainly in how unprepared he looked moreso than just a rookie playing badly. Shaw had about a C- game yesterday, even on a curve. But, at least he didn't need 3 am cram sessions, could call the plays, wanted to compete, made a couple nice throws and wasn't peeing his pants. Wow, what a high fucking bar, and JFF hasn't cleared even that. So that's how far JFF is away from being a No. 1 QB, even at a Hoyer level, but the good news is he's 22, I can be patient. At the same time, it's tougher to just call 10-6 shit and throw it away.