@the-gipper said:

Toby Gerhart out of Stanford, isn't it?

yep

Hillis, for two weeks in a row he looks like his former self, the 2010 version. 99 yards the week before (it looked like he got 100 at the end but whatever) and then over 100 against a tougher d making some nice plays.

Evan Moore, again shows he can produce when put on the field.

@dj_illness said:

interesting scenario....

does this intruige Minnesota to trade down and/or pursue Trent Richardson?

I don't know if you noticed, but they have a backup that has been more than capable when Peterson has been out. He had 109 yards yesterday on 11 carries and two 90+ yard games while he had the high ankle sprain, he can catch and pass block very well. You know, the guy that won the Doak Walker award in 2009? runner up in the Heisman to Mark Ingram...the closest race in history? 230 pounds, runs a 4.53? Remember? 2nd round pick.... He might not be the superstar that AP is but he can be an above average starting back. If you haven't noticed, most teams with elite backs that get 350+ carries don't win many games. Minnesota, Titans, Jaguars. You just need above average backs and spread carries around. It is sad to see a great talent get injured but he is a hard worker and I am sure will bounce back sooner than expected. It might take him a while to perform at 100 percent though. He'll probably be back around week 4 or 5 of next year.

@loyalty said:

A lot of people go to college for seven years....

Yeah... They're called doctors.

'Tommy Boy'

No... this guy is Graham Harrell 2.0

Harrell couldn't throw the ball as far as Keenum, Harrel was in a system that dinked and dunked and let the receivers get yac, Keenum is in a similar system but they mix it up, he can throw the deep ball.

@sheepdog said:

I believe Hardesty got so many carries because we were playing burn the clock since we had a lead. I do agree that if Hillis had 33 carries he probably would have at least gotten us into the endzone once.

I don't think anyone thinks that Hillis is worth a 6year/$48m contract. If Hillis had a year this year like he did last year then I would be more inclined to give it to him.

I hope Hillis stays but understand if he doesn't. If he does leave then I wouldn't mind the Browns going after Trent Richardson in the draft with one of our 1st round picks.

I also think Hillis would have gotten more than 2 rushing first downs if they gave him the ball 33 times. Hillis has 11 first downs and 2 tds on 60 carries. Hardesty has 6 first downs, 0 tds on 73 carries. 2 first downs on 33 carries is not typical "burning the clock out".

When is the last time a back got over 30 carries without a 100 yards or a td? Not to mention he only rushed for 2 first downs. I don't see how that can't be a negative. I would have rather seen the other guy in, he has better hands, wonder how he would have looked running, he had 1 first down rushing with 3 carries and looked great receiving, he is one of the few positives from the game.

@king-ghoolie-lives said:

No, Rich is dead on. Droughns, like Hillis is a one hit woner.

Both had a good year when defenses prepared for the Browns as a team without a running game.

The second year, Droughns, like Hillis got shut down, andnow will probably be cut.

Easy to stifle, straight ahead, slow runner.

so all of those times he bounced it the outside using lateral agility,long patriots td, run against the Bengals to run the clock out, all of the toss plays that resulted in tds or the stretch play where Tommy Z threw him out of bounds after 48 yards were just magical illusions? He doesn't have elite top end speed but he isn't slow, he is faster than guys like Blount and Shonn Greene.

Are you saying defensive coordinators are so incompetent that not only can they not make an in game adjustment to a runningback, that they are unable to go through the previous week's film of the opponent and realize no passing game and just a tight end and Hillis? Yeah you really know how to use logic there. Droughns was placed on ir his first year with the Lions, was a kick returner/special teams gunner for 3 years ( a position that has a short shelf life, return men's ability diminish very quickly) then he was also a starting rb for the last year with the Broncos, rb is also a position with a short shelf life, average is 3.5 years. He ran for 1200 yards. Then he came here and ran for 1200 yards 2 tds. He still had decent production his 3rd year as a starting runningback. He was 29 years old when he was no longer a starting rb, around the age most backs start to decline. He still served as a good goal line back that season for the Giants. He didn't come into the league at 220, he was much smaller. Also, Droughns wasn't cut, he was traded for Tim Carter (one of those 4.3 receivers with "unlimited upside" but never lives up to it.

Seriously, you act like runningback is some hard position to figure out, its not like quarterback where you have to sit hours and hour watching game film figuring out. "Lets look at the tape, lets see theres the play where they pull Steinbach and Thomas with Vickers coming right behind him and then a 240 pound guy at full steam, I wonder how we stop that'. You couldn't, there was a period of time where teams knew what we were going to do and we did it anyway. Then Daboli started outsmarting himself thinking "they think were going to run it to the left or up the middle where we can't be stopped? lets run it to the right, out of shotgun, in a 4 receiver set, where none of the receivers are actual threats" Seriously, the NFL only has about 5 or 6 different running play that they use consistently, yes they are used out of multiple formations and little tweaks but still the same concepts. tight zone, outside zone (stretch) , counter, power, draw, some sort of toss play. Hillis is able to run all of these, he isnt limited to running power every play, and he is also a threat in the passing game (Droughns didn't catch close to 61 passes in a season). And yes he can run it right, usually when the lg pulls, Steinbach was great at this, but if the key block was supposed to be by the rt then it was usually a fail. The new guy isn't as good at pulling as Steinbach either. The only thing that Marecic does is draw an extra defender in the box, at least Vickers could level the extra guy in the box, should just do more single back sets.

1600 yards. As a fan, wouldn't you want Hillis to prove that he isn't a flash in the pan? Wouldn't that be better for the team instead of bragging about how you are right after a few games with a crappy oline? its not just the RT, the entire line isn't getting any push. Why would you want a player to fail?

Droughns was a kr for 3 years, then rushed for 1200 yards in Denver, then 1200 here, with a grand total of 2 touchdowns! Yes that is exactly like Hillis.

Matt Forte had a down year his 2nd year as a starter, 3.6 ypc 4 tds and failing to hit 1k.

and why would you reply to your own post?

he has had 2500 yards from scrimmage in 25 games started. Receiving yards should be used when evaluating a back, they count to, they move the chains.

"Because Jones-Drew, Benson, and Mendenhall are NOT one hit wonders. "

neither is Michael Turner, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Jamaal Charles, Fred Jackson (averaging 100 ypg this year with 800 yards from scrimmage so far, had 927 yards last year). Many of those guys had to split carries with other backs and had several seasons with 1,000 yards from scrimmage. For instance, Reuben Mayes, Dalton Hilliard and Craig Heyward were all on the same team for a good amount of time. Mayes made the pro bowl after his 1k season, he would have had another 1k season but it was a strike shortened season. You can't just look at all the 1,000 yard rushers and link them all together. You have to look at skillset. How many 240 pound guys can run like Hillis? He is very light on his feet which allows him to change direction when hitting the hole without having to make dramatic stop and go cuts, his feet are always moving which is why he is rarely hit for a loss (it doesn't matter this season because every play call is straight up the middle). What separates him from someone like Brandon Jacobs is his cutback ability, he lost a good deal of that for a while last year with the thigh injury. You don't see Jacobs excelling on stretch plays and toss plays, his big runs have come up the gut with huge holes. Hillis is not limited in the type of play they call for him. He excelled last year with a lead blocker and he excelled in Denver's zone blocking scheme in a single back set.

Hillis had the highest ypc out of all the starting runningbacks in the AFC North, with almost identical schedules. Ray Rice 3.97, Mendenhall 3.9 and Benson 3.5. So none of their opponents could handle the run? almost identical schedules? He actually has great lateral moves compared to someone like Brandon Jacobs or Michael Turner, Turner has looked slow when he has to change direction. Hillis doesn't have the classic stop and go like an old LT, he is more light on his feet, almost dancing so he doesn't have to make dramatic cuts, watch his footwork from last season when he gets to the outside on the toss plays etc.

Yes defensive coordinators were aware of him after his first game against the Ravens. How do you think Mangini knew about him in the first place? When the Broncos played the Jets in 2008 he put up 120 on them and they had a top rush defense that year. In fact, I don't know if you are aware of this, but coordinators are actually allowed to make adjustments in a game. Its not "Hey that guy is running all over us, well we'll continue to let him run on us and review the film"

Guys like Mike Bell are dime a dozen backs, not Hillis. Mike Bell was able to do well with the Saints for the first half of the season in 09 which helped their success that season. He came here and wasn't even able to come in to give Hillis a breather, he averaged 2 yards a carry behind the same line.

So Hillis was cloned from a guy that started his career off as a kick returner? then rushed for 1200 for the Broncos and then 1200 for us? Then dropping down to 3.4 ypc at age 28 with 927 yards

Lets see, pretty much every run play they call for him is the same, run straight up the gut, get hit by several defenders by the time he gets to the line and try to power forward for 2 to 4 yards. He excels on getting the outside, if you haven't noticed his biggest runs have been to the outside. I questioned where is the toss play and stretch play that he was so successful with last year and with Denver? running up the middle opens up the outside runs and vice versa. Then they ran a stretch play last game, everything was clogged, he would have had to plow through his own linemen and defenders to gain something, so he cut it to the left meeting several defenders for a loss. Its no coincidence that his biggest play this season was a broken down play. The blocking just isn't there. The game Hardesty started they didn't stuff the box and they were getting some holes, but now they are just stuffing the box regardless of who is in. He is going to have to fight for every single yard and hope one or two plays something opens up.

Id agree and say the solution is to run him 20 to 25 times a game. Cedric Benson wasn't running well against us the other week, he was getting small gains here and there, 2 and 3 yards. Then in the 4th quarter there was a mental lapse on our d and he broke off a big run. Switching between Hillis and Hardesty only makes it worse, it lessens the chance either of them will have a big run, they both need to get into a groove.

I think Hillis can have a great career here. The WCO had backs who put up big numbers. Shaun Alexander (although if you look at his highlights nobody touches him for 10 yards the holes are so big). Roger Craig etc. He excelled in Denver under a single back set, Marecic isn't blocking that well so why don't we just use more single back sets? or is that not WCO enough?

@usfbrown said:

When you beat off do you look at a picture of Hillis?

I don't know where you could get something like that out of what I said unless you personally beat off to players that you think are talented. Im not dissing your lifestyle but personally I don't its appropriate for the message board, please keep personal things like that to yourself.

@pumpkin-eater said:

What do you think the guy deserves after one DECENT year?

One DECENT year.

he had the best ypc in the AFC north with 4.4 ypc last year. Ray Rice had 3.97, Mendenhall had 3.9, Benson had 3.5. Ray Rice doesn't have to face the Ravens twice, and Mendenhall doesn't have to face the Steelers twice. Benson does and you see how he produced. They played almost the same exact schedule, except Ray Rice got to play the Broncos who had a weak run defense, 1 of his 2 100 yard games last year (yes he only had 2). The other was against New Orleans where Hillis didn't see many carries. Mendenhall had his best performance against Tampa, a game that Hillis wasn't the starter and only got several carries. Hills performed the best out of all of them with 3 different quarterbacks, a washed up Delhomme and a rookie, not to mention receivers that can't get separation. The last few games he played with a broken rib.

He also had 5 games in Denver averaging 5 ypc with 5 tds. 25 games as a starter 2500 yards from scrimmage and 22 tds.

If thats "decent" Id like to know what above average is. I can't think of many backs that would have excelled in the role Hillis had last year. The only back I can think of is Steven Jackson who had to play many years on a bad team as the main weapon.

how do we know he is asking for Frank Gore money? From what I have read the main issue has been contract length.

25 games as a starter, 2500+ yards from scrimmage, 22 touchdowns. So based on that, if he had played 2 seasons as a starter he would have 3200 yards from scrimmage and 28 touchdowns, which is pretty consistent with his performance last year where he had 1600 yards from scrimmage and 13 tds.

Yes there were a few games where he touched the ball but wasn't a starter, he had 33 rushing attempts and 12 receptions which would make up for the two games he started at fullback (under McDaniels) but wasn't involved in the offense. Not to mention he only played part of the Chiefs game before landing upside down. Most of these attempts were short yardage which brought his ypc down and also include the first two games of last year.

Sign the man, or he could reunite with Shanahan in Washington. Take them to a Superbowl. Riggins told that to Gibbs and he thought "what an egomaniac."

It would be one thing if he only succeeded here for a few games, but there was a 5 game stretch that he started at tailback in Denver. 5 tds and averaged 5 ypc, his ypc was going up every game until he landed upside down catching a pass, I believe he was averaging 7 ypc in that game. He excelled with the stretch play which is why I find it odd that they don't use it much here this year. They used it quite a bit when Hardesty started, but for Hillis its mostly up the gut dives, but we have seen that he is capable on toss plays and stretch plays finding the cutback lane. Now its predictable and you have several defenders hitting him before he gets to the los, having to fight just to get 3 yards.

He's proven to be effective every time he has gotten the ball and is making league minimum. Yes Matt Forte is also making 600,000 but has made more overall money. Not many backs could have put up the numbers that Hillis put up last year. Mike Bell was a decent runner and had a stretch of success with the Saints when healthy. He wasn't even good enough to come in for a few snaps, he was averaging under 2 ypc with us last year.

I just don't see how a guy who succeeded in two different systems is considered a "one year wonder"

Is it that wrong for him to be looking out for his future?