@bob806 said:Manning is indeed phenomenal, but best ever? He's the best of his time, for sure. I'd go with Otto Graham, our rival Terry Bradshaw, Johnny U, or Joe Montana as best ever. Certainly Manning is right up there, let's see how the rest of his career pans out. Bradshaw? Are you joking?

dick move man

If you look at the real meat and potatoes of his career, Vick has been a serviceable QB, but not the kind of guy who will come in and resurrect a franchise. He just ain't that good. And he might not perform well with people wearing dog masks harassing him. Every time any decent veteran with a 16th of an inch of knee cartilage left is available, people say to get them. Stop it. If this board had its way the Browns would be entirely made up of killers, dog torturers, head cases, etc., and would still lose. If the Browns are ever to return to respectability it will be through the draft. And they are thin enough that if the best player available is chosen position won't matter much. Good teams with long term success are built this way.

a steeler fan who can read and stopped breast feeding by the age of 14.

@pghdemo5 said:Ben does have a great defense, and that does take some pressure off of him, but Ben has something like 19 or 20 4th quarter drives for wins in his young career so far. That's pretty damn good. If you look at his completion % and passer rating, they have been pretty damn good. Ben has also done it without a superstar WR. Holmes is great, but hes not a T.O. or Moss, or Fitz. I like DA, he took the Browns to 10-6, but this year he has looked super awful. No touch. I think the kid from ND deserves a shot now. Palmer is a great talent, he hasn't won anything though. I still maintain that DA would be a decent QB on a better team. Palmer vs BR is hard to call-PGH, I think, drafts QBs for what they DON'T do as much as for what they do. They move the ball, eat clock, and don't turn the ball over often. They don't have to be spectacular, just don't lose the game. They do that extremely well. The downside of that system is that they don't come from far behind all that well. So that system goes along with a defense that does not let them get in the hole deeply. The Bungles have a more traditional approach, and probably have a better QB in the traditional sense. But one with fewer rings. It is heartbreaking to see what the Browns and their fans are going through. It is not bad coaching IMHO, just a flat out lack of talent. A woman who is a Browns fan would be a good marriage choice, because she would surely stay with you through anything! Cleve needs about three very good consecutive drafts but I don't know if ownership is patient enough for that. There really isn't any team identity other than they are always rebuilding. Probably Mangini et al will be cut loose in December 2011 and the next group will come in to do it their way.....

@riceloft said:The football numbers geeks are over at www.footballoutsiders.com. Per their stats, Derek Anderson ranked 32nd among QB's with 100 or more passes. That incudes adjustments for the defense he was facing in a given week. RAC was a genius when it came to making adjustmnets on the D. Cream filled or jelly!

Details continue to leak out. Now it is said that when Dan Rooney wanted to talk to Browns Deep Throat he put one of the Lombardi Trophies on the balcony of his office at Heinz Field as a signal. BDT is described as a mysterious man weighing over 400 pounds. I have no further information at the present time.

I heard this on ESPN radio today so it must be true. They said that 9 of the last 15 Super Bowls have been won by coaches who have been fired. Didn't check it out but it sounds plausible. Mangini represents some hope, but the Browns are a tough team to reconstruct. Here is my reasoning. If you have a really bad team like the Bengals or Lions it is hard to draft badly because you pick high and have needs everywhere. If you have a kind of middling team like the Browns (based on my asessment of the true talent level and not the comparative records) it's harder to know who to get rid of and who to keep. Do you build on what you have or blow it up? Given that the Browns have to play Pittsburgh twice and Baltimore twice each year, guaranteed, how do you construct your team? The way things are done now most coaches have three years to win or they are out looking for work again and someone else gets a shot. Is three years enough time to build a team to do that?

@buck-the-frowns said:This guy has an MBA and used to run the Texas Rangers. The contract for his present position runs out on January 20th. He is ..........GEORGE W. BUSH!!!! Given his record as GM of the United States, what would Bush do if he ran the Cleveland Browns? I think he'd..... 1) Declare war on Pittsburgh. 2) Declare war on Baltimore. 3) Bankrupt the team while doing so. 4) Institute a color code system of jerseys, depending on the team's standing that week. 5) Imprison opposing fans at Put-In Bay without trial. 6) Keep track of the game score and league standings using Diebold machines. 6) Send Romeo Crennel an invitation to go quail hunting with Dick Cheney. Any other ideas? What do you guys think he would do? roflmao

Quoting me, a few days ago; "I think the Steelers have superior talent but could be beaten. " Or not, ....... which was my second guess. So long, Aromo.

@herman-m said:It was easy competition, remember DA never beat anyone that was good until MNF this year against the Giants. And I will say to that, every dog has his day! True, and every dawg needs a nap, which is what NY did. Loverboy and anyone that hates Quinn think the NY Giants were the rule instead of the exception to it. Trust me, if the NY Giants didn't think they were watching football follies when they were looking at us on film, they would have shown up looking at us a little differently than USC looked at Stanford in 2007. It's called looking ahead and being caught in a snooze. Loverboy thinks this is Disney and DA is going to the Superbowl the same way he thinks he saw Oregon State winning all those Pac 10 Titles with DA at QB. I think Loverboy counts 4 Pac 10 Titles from his boyfriend while the rest of America doesn't have the heart to tell him the truth. That folks, is Lummy's Victorious Secret he just can't keep secret. - Tom F. (QBs make or break Head Coaches and GMs. The fact that Ken Dorsey was kept here to tutor our younger QBs and lead by example scares the crap out of me every bit as much as seeing DA start another game or that signing Trent Dilfer was once a proud moment for our GM)

I would say that marty as arguably one of the most successful coaches to neve win a superbowl is a perfect match for a team thats never gotten to a superbowl we could get there and win together! lol

He was getting turkeyed because Shaffer sucks and nobody on that offense has balls enough to stand up for their QB. They just stood around and let them do it to Dorsey. Talk about nobody having your back, what a bunch of pussies.

And the Giants got Hixon as a waiver wire pickup after the Broncos cut him. Just another example of what an amazing job the Giants' front office has done. Even their one screwup, trading Ryan Grant for a 6th Round pick, doesn't look as bad now that Grant's come down to earth (3.8 YPC). For me, the dream scenario would be Ernie Accorsi coming in as our team president. Savage could do the scouting, much like what Jerry Reese did before he took over as GM. In a couple years, Accorsi would retire, and (hopefully) Savage would have "matured" enough to handle full GM responsibilities. Probably not a realistic scenario, but it'd be great for our franchise.

lol....man, he aint gonna help the bucs. i wish they would do something.....the only thing i can cling to is PSU and the pens.