if those are are starters at TE/WR, I will punch you.

don't forget Claiborne at #4.

We really can't go wrong in this draft.

oh....

can I hear the soccer rant?

ehhh...

BACK It UP, you bastard.

two things that concern me:

- not likely getting any significant FA's.

- Steve Bono? Really?

other than that a lot of hopeful BS.

Just get it done, boys.

What would the trade Value be on Flynn? A third rounder, perhaps?

MILIDH,

you've got to explain how you see otherwise.

I'm very curious to hear your perspective.

are you REALLY trying to argue that Shumur's management hasn't cost us any games?

you get out of your team what you expect.

set the bar high, players will rise to it.

we simply aren't doing that.

I would argue that we STILL aren't moving the ball all that well.

And a lot of "the best teams in the NFL" are either already beating us by 10+ points, or don't need to win the game b/c they're already in the playoffs.

Negatives

1. Mis-management.

This simply needs to be addressed. Repeatedly. This team has failed time and time again to be prepared. This is where Holmgren needs to come alongside Shumur (and our special teams co-ordinator) and say, "hey. this isn't good enough. let's try to improve in these areas."

I would HOPE this would improve by getting an OC next year (or moving Shumur to OC).

I think/wonder if Holmgren purposely placed too much responsibility to have P.O.S. drinking from a fire hose to make future seasons seem easier by comparison.

2. Competive Nature

This could be what concerns me most, because I don't understand it, and it's probably most difficult to change. There are times when, strategically and for the player's morale, the HC has to make agressive play calls. There are times when it simply makes sense to "go for it." Shumur has failed repeatedly to pick up his balls and man up in those moments. He may be a decent HC (fingers crossed, in this thread at least), but he appears to lack competitive fire. I know different people/personalities express it differently. But, being extremely competitive myself, I don't get it. I'm the kind of person to stab someone over a game of checkers. To compete as a HC in the NFL, you should HATE (and i mean, HATE, HATE, HATE) losing. All the currently great teams and players do. In this sense, I really don't understand P.O.S' mediocre, passive play-calling. It seems like, at times, he seriously doesn't want to win. (and it's REALLY hard to play devils' advocate here... some choices have been down right inexplicable, deying common football sense from anyone's perspective). Hopefully, someone will help Shumur get his Waterboy on.

I saw this thought started elsewhere and I couldn't find it.

So....I'm trying not to be TOO much of a hater, and wondering what reasoning Holmgren could POSSIBLY have to keep Shurmur.

Let's all play devils' advocate. What are the advantages and potential good to maintaining P.O.S (Pat Oswald Shumur) as our head coach?

1. Youth/Stability/Tenure

IF (big if) Shumur pans out well as a coach, he could offer long-term stability for the Franchise. He could be a mainstay such as Belliceck, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid or Tom Coughlin. There is something to be said when good teams find good coaches and stick with them (and the schemes, etc) for a while. If P.O.S finds his niche, we could have a solid HC for a while.

2. Defense

I can see some of the big picture Holmgren and Heckert are doing. With the solid (if not downright stellar) Defenses in our division, it's safe to say that there will not be many offensive shootouts against division rivals. If our FO builds a strong, steady defense, it will not take as much on the offensive side of the ball to win games. This relieves SOME pressure off of P.O.S.

3. Rapport

I remember Stephen Jackson and Sam Bradford having good words to say about Shumur. As well as (I think) Joe Thomas prior to his new contract. Whatever it may be, there are some apparent positives to Shumur. (i think this are quickly cancelled out by ineptitude, but they are there, nonetheless). I remember Shawn Rogers getting all pissy when slighted by Mangini. We haven't heard such reports about P.O.S.

4. Team youth

We are basically building the team from the ground up around Shumur. There are not a lot of "Mangini's guys" or "coach X's guys" that would cause divisions. A lot of these guys are young, and for better or worse- Shumur is their coach. Another example of H&H TRYING (in their own special way) to put P.O.S (as a young, inexperienced HC) in a position to succeed.

These are some of the positives I can think of. I'll address some negatives in a second post.

PP- 4 touchdowns

Browns- 21.

(1 return TD)

Mr. Buffalo,

how have our special teams done this season?

discuss while i watch PP kick returns and cry. Several times.

Compare PP's total touchdowns this season to our offenses' total.

cry with me.

i feel like with our first round, we're going to be in a pickle between the two options:

QB improvement (RGIII) or overall team improvement (oline, WR, LB, etc)

Unless managment has already decided, I think whatever trade options present themselves (moving up or down) will ulitmately determine our course of action.

thanks.

again, we've played the draft well the past few years, but I cry every time i see a PP/AJ Green highlight.

and there have been several.

this is the same BS we were all saying looking at our cupcake schedule at the beginning of this season.

put the kool aid down.

there have been SOME strides. Not huge by any means (i consider HUGE strides to be something like, hell... winning games, maybe?)

we started week 1 with a WINNABLE game that was mis-managed and uncoached away.

THAT trend has continued throughout the entire season.

excuse us realists for not being satisfied or entertained.

Gipp,

he was referring to DESEAN JACKSON.... the Philly WR.

but how do you really feel abotu D'Qwell?

we picked, what #5 last year?

and we missed out on AJ Green and Patrick Peterson.

(we drafted well, but one of those guys would have been nice).

drafting at #22 (or higher) just increases the potential for sadness/2012 anger and jealousy.

interesting scenario....

does this intruige Minnesota to trade down and/or pursue Trent Richardson?

for all the Bengal's flaws, which are many....Marvin Lewis (right?)is actually a pretty good, well-respected coach.

so it's a both and.

i like this perspective and summary.

we could use a QB. but DON'T (for the love of God) force it.

keep building.

(and fire Shumur.)