The thing your tiny little football mind prevents you from seeing is that on a barren desert plain, a five foot tall tree stands out, in a forest full of big trees, you won't see it.
Your forest has 3 Big trees. Without them, you got tundra.
I would defy you to float that stupid shit anywhere other than in Cleveland and see if you don't end up in a straight jacket.
And that's it.
Joe Thomas and Joel Bitonio are both better than any linemen you have. Foolish fan hyperbole!
Barnidge is as good or better than your TE. Nice player but on a team with talent he becomes far less impactful. Foolish fan hyperbole!
Kirksey has been every bit as productive in his career as Shazier. You're a gluehead!
You WOULD start Shelton on your DL. Nice player but on a team with talent he becomes far less impactful. Foolish fan hyperbole!
Jamie Collins, if he decides to play is probably as good as any of your LBs. You're a gluehead!
You have no DB as good as Joe Haden (if he is healthy...which he has not been) Put a fork in him!
Overall, sure, the Steelers have more. But to say that the Steelers are better at every single position than the Browns is as ignorant as ignorant can be.
(and yes, if you take the 3 Bs off Pissburgh and put them on the Browns....the situations are reversed. NOT EVEN CLOSE.....and anyone with a brain would know it.
Of course, as the old adage goes, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. for some reason the Browns are less than the sum of their parts.
The thing your tiny little football mind prevents you from seeing is that on a barren desert plain, a five foot tall tree stands out, in a forest full of big trees, you won't see it.
Zombo said:
We sucked Dude, but that's about to change.
Pouncy isn't all that. Steelers are a 5-11 team without Ben, Bell and Brown.
But, they drafted them, we didn't.
Looking forward to the upcoming reversal of fortunes, I hope it's a lengthy one.
Z
Talk about Dumb and Dumber! The two of you couldn't fill a thimble full of common sense if you were given a shovel! It's a waste of words on the two of you but what the hell, remove the B's and then compare position by position and the Steelers are still a quality team. There may not be a single position where the Browns would be better.....even without the three B's
But guess what you two geniuses.......The Steelers DO have the three B's
What you casually term "culture" is 75% of the equation, the 3 or 4 players is 25%. The Browns are 3 or 4 players (and "culture" improvement) away from teams like the Jaguars, Bears, and Rams.
You are a glue head with virtually every one of those statements.
Right....actual facts are not something you have any kind of ability to understand.
The Steelers are one the most talent laden teams in the NFL.
Only if you take those 3-4 players. Otherwise their talent level is pedestrian. If they were so talented besides those guys, ALL that talent would have run over the "Very little talented Browns". Pretty much the opposite happened.
Who's to say the playing for the Browns didn't ruin the QB's?
I say so.....anyone who has seen them play says so. You think they were all so good? Why don't you go ahead an bench BR in favor of Brandon Weeden or Colt McCoy or Derek Anderson or Johnny Manziel or any of those guys. You think they are so good...but I venture you would not went them as the starting QB of your team.
There is VERY little talent on the Browns, AT ANY POSITION,
And yet, without fuckup after fuckup they would have been in position to hammer the Steelers. You prove my point. Steelers have about as little talent as the Browns without those 3-4 guys. (Who, yes, indeed do make a great deal of difference)
and the few key players which are talented are on their way to retirement.
Browns players on way to retirement? Who are you talking about?
Only guy I know who would be retiring is Josh McCown....hardly a key player.
Joe Thomas could play another 7-8 years. Joe Haden probably 3-4 more...unless injuries do him in.
The most key player closest to retirement on either team is your most key player: BR.
When a guy like Pryor stands out, it's not because he is great or even good, it's because he looks head and shoulders better than the void around him.
Or, maybe he is actually pretty good. From what I see, the Steelers would take him in a heartbeat and he would be your top notch 2d receiver.
Could you imagine BR throwing to him? If you say that you wouldn't want that, you would be lying to yourself.
Referring to one game as your measuring stick for the talent on the Browns proves your stupidity.
Thinking that one year of above average play on a team with the least talent in the NFL makes Pryor great cements it.
You continue to forget that despite 3 or 4 players (which isn't valid in the first place) the difference between the Steelers and Browns is that one is a top 3 organization and the other is clearly the worst organization in the NFL.
It's like saying that if you put the best tire you can buy on a junker it could compete in NASCAR.
The proof is what makes me chuckle! You are a master at making bold statements which can never be proven.
Its not that it isn't proven, its that you are either too obtuse or you lie to yourself about whatever you see in front of your eyes.
Despite the fact that I believe the Browns are finally doing some things the proper way, they will finish in the bottom ten next year and when they do, you will say they didn't get the right 3 or 4 players.
They may get some of the right players and still finish in the bottom ten.
But, again, you are too obtuse to get my point: Without those 3-4 players, the Steelers would be in the bottom 10 with them.
Sure I agree, that's what bad teams do! And that's why it's hard to play those teams.
The Steelers had nothing to play for, played a disgustingly lack-luster game, and still won. But more importantly, the body of work for the Browns season (not just the snapshot you wish to use) says they are all but 3-4 players away.
Put BR, Brown, and Bell and Pouncey on the Browns and take them away from the Steelers....and what do you think we would have.
We would have the Browns pushing for a playoff spot, and the Steelers would be vying for the Top draft pick.
See, it is as simple as that...but you are too stupid to get it.
Hell, the Browns had more incentive to lose than the Steelers did.
And you think the Steelers played a disgustingly lackluster game? That is what they would look like every game without those guys.
And did you even watch the game? Could anything be more disgusting than the way the Browns played? The way the gave the game away?
Hell, the Browns did their best to give it to you. Finally you were barely able to do so.
I have often believed that you simply can't be that stupid, but you continue to demonstrate that you are.
Take any 3 or 4 players you like and put them on the Browns and they will wallow in mediocrity due to the complete void of talent around them. You simply can't grasp what everyone else knows.....when you change leadership and philosophy every 1.5 years little else matters.....you simply can't be competitive!
The Browns had no incentive to lose for many reasons:
1. They are all professionals who play to win.
2. There is no talent in the upcoming draft which sets a single player above the others so draft picks 1 thru 3 mean little more than the amount you pay for them.
3. The Browns would give their left nut to beat the Steelers and you know it.
I know you are a big proponent of the philosophy that a team can't be competitive without a great QB and that belief is true. However, where you are usually foolish about this is in thinking that a great QB will make the Browns competitive, which is not true.
Without BR, the Steelers would be about as good as the Browns. So, your statement is foolish. That is because the Steelers are not otherwise all that talented.
While true that a great QB won't make a bad team great, it is still a required commodity. Other things are needed for sure.
But your assumption is that the Browns CANNOT get ahold of those other things. They could, if they do things right.
History should tell you that drafting a top-rated QB is a foolish mistake unless you either have, or are a whisker away from having, a solid team. The Browns are at least another year from that only next year will tell if it is one more year or more.
I know you believe that all the QB's the Browns have tried are all bums but,
Name one that wasn't a bum? Maybe Hoyer a bit.
again, a little common sense might tell you that anyone on the team the Browns have sported for the majority of the last 25 years is going to look like a bum due to a lack of talent, lack of scheme, lack of coaching, lack of leadership, etc. Did the Browns try a host of bums at QB or did the Browns turn every QB prospect into a bum?
Look how good all those QBs did elsewhere: They were bums here, and they were bums after they left.
So, while the Browns may have had all those other problems....lack of yada yada....they also had bums for QBs.
The Browns need to establish a system, fill the giant void of talent at key positions, show improvement, and then draft a top 5 QB.
The biggest void is AT the most key position: QB.
This offense is really not that far away from being pretty good. Its need an OL or two plus a QB.
The defense, yes, is further away.
But, by all means....lets follow your philosophy: Don't draft a possible franchise QB in fear that he will fail. Guarantee failure by not taking one.
You are a glue head with virtually every one of those statements.
The Steelers are one the most talent laden teams in the NFL.
Who's to say the playing for the Browns didn't ruin the QB's?
There is VERY little talent on the Browns, AT ANY POSITION, and the few key players which are talented are on their way to retirement. When a guy like Pryor stands out, it's not because he is great or even good, it's because he looks head and shoulders better than the void around him.
The proof is in the pudding.....without BR/Bell/Brown the Browns whipped the Steelers ass up and down pretty much.
Do you disagree that the Browns beat themselves with all their fuckups?
The proof is what makes me chuckle! You are a master at making bold statements which can never be proven. Despite the fact that I believe the Browns are finally doing some things the proper way, they will finish in the bottom ten next year and when they do, you will say they didn't get the right 3 or 4 players.
Sure I agree, that's what bad teams do! And that's why it's hard to play those teams.
The Steelers had nothing to play for, played a disgustingly lack-luster game, and still won. But more importantly, the body of work for the Browns season (not just the snapshot you wish to use) says they are all but 3-4 players away.
This thread made me chuckle!
You never learn.....and that's what makes you funny 
I know you are a big proponent of the philosophy that a team can't be competitive without a great QB and that belief is true. However, where you are usually foolish about this is in thinking that a great QB will make the Browns competitive, which is not true.
History should tell you that drafting a top-rated QB is a foolish mistake unless you either have, or are a whisker away from having, a solid team. The Browns are at least another year from that only next year will tell if it is one more year or more.
I know you believe that all the QB's the Browns have tried are all bums but, again, a little common sense might tell you that anyone on the team the Browns have sported for the majority of the last 25 years is going to look like a bum due to a lack of talent, lack of scheme, lack of coaching, lack of leadership, etc. Did the Browns try a host of bums at QB or did the Browns turn every QB prospect into a bum?
The Browns need to establish a system, fill the giant void of talent at key positions, show improvement, and then draft a top 5 QB.
cincy is done. stoolers holding on by crusty fingernails. baltimore might be it from our division.
from a once powerful and strong AFCN to the powderpuff pussy league.
damn G.
Mik....Just because the two Ohio teams drag the division down doesn't quite make it a powder-puff pussy leage
Could also be that The Gipper sits around thinking of things to say that make him seem smart. But since he is not able to see outside of his own little world, his perception of smart is quite skewed 
Another term for parity is "lack of superiority"
1. The person who has kicked your ass in every debatable question that has ever been brought up on this board.
2. The person whose dick you would like to suck but he won't let you.
3. The person who actually applies and enforces the Constitution or these United States of America.
4. The goofy old bastard that says a ton of funny shit.
You poor pathetic bastard! You aren't even the coolest guy in the room if you're the "only" guy in the room. But I, and everyone else, understand that "you" think you are really cool.
Mud, Outside of the vaunted realm of Browns fans themselves, it's been eons since Browns fans were the best. Proudest? Maybe? Loudest? Nah! Most fanatic? Possibly? Best? Not by lightyears!
As far as the fans leaving, it's sad, but typical, to see because the Browns are FINALLY doing some some right. I expect them to be 6-10 or 7-9 next year and make the playoffs in 2018.
That has to come through success from the team....it wasnt long ago that the Cleveland Browns fans were considered the best...the loudest....the proudest....and the most fanatical of all fans......not long ago at all....
And now, those same fans that have backed the team(no questions asked) for decade after decade after decade, are falling by the way side.....why, you ask?.....because the team has not lived up to their side of the bargain and they have delivered crap for 2 straight DECADES.....so, how long does one love another(blindly), while continuously getting kicked in the balls?
Every year....every single year.....we look forward, hope, pray, etc.....and then get our hearts ripped out.....and people say "be patient"....they'll get better....rooks will step up....wait for them to gel.....so and so is gonna be a star....THIS is the week.....blah blah blah....and, then, like clock work, they self destruct, fall apart and deliver crap on a plate......
Personally.....I dont spend much time "looking back"....I know water under the bridge is gone.....but I NOW need something more than words to convince me the team is on the right track....tangible evidence....proof.....cause Im tired of giving them my all(40+ years now) and then getting disappointed, depressed and embarrassed on a weekly basis.....footballs supposed to be fun, so its not an equitable arrangement
So now....nationally....NO ONE considers the Browns fans to be the most fervent or "best"....and, that my friend, is not the fans fault.
Oh gipper, what do they say about you while you yell at people to "get off your lawn".
Multiple choice:
1. That goofy old bastard couldn't hold Clint's jockstrap except to sniff it!
2. That windbag doesn't have the courage to be out on his lawn!
3. That chicken-shit wouldn't take a bullet for anyone!
4. That goofy old bastard says a ton of funny shit!
Putting a stud rookie on the field with nothing around him and no defense to help would have been disastrous. I think the Browns are headed in the right direction and this year was nothing more than a chance to install a system and get some youngsters some reps.
There was nothing wrong with the play call... just when it was called. If this was called late in the game? I don't think I would have had any problems with it.
1. The punter being used as a blocker (something he never does)
2. The long snapper being used as a pulling blocker (something he never does)
3. A guy who doesn't long snap doing the long snap (something he never does)
4. Nothing resembling a punt or pass play.....hmmmmm maybe the lone guy (a running back) in the backfield is going to try to run?
so we all know the hot topic that colon kuppercake has started by sitting or kneeling during the playing of our national anthem before the games niners play. i think we all know there is social injustice to some level. how much and to what degree is something individually we won't agree upon. but let him do it.........
HOWEVER
this sunday is the anniversary of sept. 11th, 2001, the first time our soil was breached in a terroristic war attack that brought down 2 huge buildings in battery park nyc. don't need to explain the details of what everyone saw that day and has been recorded and played back many times in most or our minds. so since colon has emptied his bowels upon us all when tuning in to a football game for entertainment, there have been others who have joined him across the sports realm and even supported by the president of the united states (what an asshat).
i'm sure everyone here can tell my stance on this issue. but i'd like to know/hear what others think to either let me know how far out of reach i am mentally on this, how old-fartish i might be or whether or not my vet status gives me the right to overreact.
the seahawks plan to show a 'unified' team showing of how they view this by doing something during the playing of the national anthem. what do you think it could be? if they all turned their back or kneeled how would you feel?
IMO the NFL needs to take a hard line on this and since they are a privated entity should employ the same rule of standing for the national anthem like the NBA does.
got your cause kaepernik, even though i doubt you've ever been affected like others in the black community considering how, where and by who you were raised.
if this continues i might just turn my back on it all and discontinue support of this game i love so much.
I couldn't agree more. My vet status makes me say "fuck him"! Common sense makes me say "There are a lot of people who are rightfully upset that blacks commit an inordinate amount of violent crime, occupy an inordinate number of prison cells, and consume an inordinate amount of American tax dollars. There are still people who are ignorant enough to base an opinion on the color of someones skin but picking and choosing which facts that you want to bitch about, and which ones you want to pretend don't exist, is not the answer"
The NFL should refuse to show a player not standing!
