The way I understand it, the knife was the last of the incident, just before helicopters were called to find him. It never had to get there. If what Johnny apologists say is true, he had the right to defend himself from a knife wielding woman, ok, I can get with that. However, it ALL could have been put to rest way before that happened. In Johnny's hotel when she wanted to get away from him in the first place. All he had to do was call hotel security or the police and have her removed. Incident over. Sounds to me to be at least mutual combat. Sorry, I got no respect for a guy who thinks taking on a girl is a fair fight.

I think it's really twisted to blame her for getting her ear drum burst. A fight between a man and a woman is not a fair fight. It's pretty clear they both have issues, but a big reason so much of this stuff doesn't get reported is because of the "blame the victim" mentality.

I don't see her getting all this supposed sympathy. Deion Sanders publicly blamed her. All the Johnny knob slurpers have called her a liar. Meanwhile everyone is....."poor Johnny....he needs help....we should feel sorry for him." What about feeling sorry for his alleged victim? What about feeling sorry for those with diagnosed mental illness who live on the damn streets? Those who don't have all the help johnny has available to him? Nah. Screw johnny. If he did what this girl alleges, his ass needs to be in jail. Judt like any if us would be for beating on a woman.

I think all of you feeling sorry for Johnny should do an experiment. Drive your car at a high speed along the shoulder of the highway while pretending to physically fight with your girl until bystanders call the cops. Then when they get there have your girl say you hit her and you tell the cops you had a couple drinks. See what happens to YOU in that situation. Bet you at LEAST get a field sobriety test and a seat in the back of a patrol car.

@johnny-fingers-farmer said:

Pretty pathetic that most posters here are wanting to blame the girlfriend and not Johnny. She hasn't given anyone a reason to doubt her and Johnny hasn't given anyone a reason to believe him.

Posters have flat out lied and said the police didn't believe her. The police said she was being too vague and uncooperative. Another words not enough info or evidence to make an arrest.

ITA. The dashcam video from Avon revealed, to me anyway, a classic domestic abuse scenario. Once she realized police were involved and he could be arrested, she backed off. Very typical. She was NOT the one to call police in either situation. Bystanders felt enough was going on to get police involved. If she wanted to make up a bunch of crap just to get him in trouble, she would have called the cops herself. If she just randomly shows up to his hotel room trashed and looking for a fight, why doesn't HE call hotel security or police and have her removed from the premises? Possibly because he was none to eager to get cops involved himself? And just for the record, I don't think she totally innocent in it. Not at all. I think they both get off on the high drama and each one escalates to the next level until physical altercations are inevitable. Doesn't give him the ok to put his hands on her.

His father's words bother me, too. He says if "they" don't get him help...who is "they"? The Browns? Just like it was "the school" when he was having trouble at A&M according to that espn magazine (?) article. This reeks of co-dependency and enabling, IMO.

It was never a good fit for johnny in cleveland. It wasn't hard to see that an organization screaming for stability, with a rookie defensive minded head coach, shouldn't draft a guy like Johnny. I saw it as a waste of at least one season, probably two or three. I wasn't too far off, and even I, who was against drafting him, was shocked at just how thoroughly he blew off his rookie season. After that, I was done with him. I'm no spring chicken and would like to see the Browns get to the playoffs (I've lowered my standards incrementally over the last 10 years) before i die. I don't have time to wait around on a guy who needs to grow up first. It was so obvious to me that the browns were asking for not only a project whose biggest assets were playground QB skills, but also a big time project with off the field stuff ( and that has turned out to be even worse than my imagination would allow in may 2014). As far as in concerned, I don't know how any Browns fan can NOT be done with him. He has wasted two seasons of our time. And not because he just can't grasp the game ( I try to have patience with rookies and the learning curve), but because he didn't give 100%. He never made football the priority. I liken him to your buddy who is the life of the party, the guy you call when it's time to blow off steam for a while, but the guy you would NEVER hire to run your business.

What makes this all the more infuriating to me is the fact that it was SO easily predicted. He was never worth the risk.

I think those who think this is about Johnny's party lifestyle are way off the mark. No one cares if he parties. The partying is more of the symptom than the underlying issue. Johnny likes to play football as recreation. It's not a job for him. While that has worked his whole life because he was always the best player on the field, it will NOT work like that in the pro's. you can't blow off film study and half ass meetings and then go and ball out on Sunday in today's NFL. It's a full time job. Johnny has never had to work for anything in his life. It won't be an easy hurdle to overcome, especially when there is always the family money to fall back on. Add in that he's still very young and his maturity has been stunted by all his celebrity and you have a recipe for disaster. He doesn't like the part where he actually has to work to earn his way. He believes it should be handed to him and he should be allowed to do it his way. Football is a team sport. Those guys can't go into battle behind a leader who hasn't done the work. It's really that simple. I do think he tried a little harder this year, but the minimum required will never get him to the level of FQB. It just won't happen that way. He said himself he doesn't like to study film. That's all you need to know about Johnny's chances of ever being a FQB. All the extra work that guys like Brady, Manning, and Palmer put in, Johnny would rather blow off. And ALL of this was known about him coming out of college. For this, I don't blame Johnny, I blame the guy who drafted him.

Imagine you are at your job, busting your ass. Are you the best in the world at it? Maybe not, but you are doing everything you can to be the best you can be. Then the boss brings in his young, punk son who never did his homework as a student, let alone was he expected to earn his own way in anything. Now you have to put in your best next to this jackass who shows up when it suits him? You gonna be ok with that? You gonna accept this guy as a member of your team? Be honest. Of course not. Resentment is going to build and before you know it, it all goes to shit because this one guy who was handed the job of leader doesn't seem to care too much about working for it.

@spek216 said:

Then why send a text to the Browns org saying "pick me pick me!"

that's an easy one....he was falling out of the first round and needed a desperate team to pull the trigger.

I have believed from day one he was a con man. I actually think he's so good at manipulating that he doesn't even know he's doing it himself.

The guys that are defending all this based on hypocrisy are exactly the kinds of people Johnny has been associating himself with. The folks who will make excuses for him, and won't tell him "no" or set any kind of boundaries. It doesn't help him...at all. I've been really, really hard on him. I didn't want to draft him. I knew from the start that the Johnny Football persona is bigger than the team. And I still feel he's his own worst enemy, but I am beginning to have some sympathy for him. This dude has been allowed to manipulate and do whatever he wants his whole life because he could ply football. Of course he's going to push the boundaries as far as he can until someone stops him. That simple. He needs someone around him that doesn't have a financial reason to be around him. Someone he can't control or fire. Haslam has given Johnny more power than his head coach. It's really too late, IMO, to change that now with any kind of credibility. I've heard the Eddie Haskell comparison and I do think its applicable, but what I see moreso is an out of control child star that's never been reigned in. And the sad part of it is the exploitation of him in the process.

I'm sure we will see Davis by seasons end. This is the Browns. We always plow through three QB's a season.

I can't get over people still defending this clown.

Of course others players drink, but Johnny clearly has a problem with self control. He went to rehab for piss sake.

This was his shot. All he had to do was lay low for a few days. If he really wanted to impress the organization and give them reason to believe they could finally rely on him, he could have done so many other things to kick back on his off time. This dumbass does the one thing he absolutely knows could bite him in the ass and blow his opportunity. Then he comes up with some lame ass non denial-denial about the video "could be" old. What the fuck ever, Johnny. He knew it wasn't old. Lies and cover ups. He's really good at that.

Why is it so fucking hard to stay out of the limelight for four to six months out of the year? He makes millions of dollars for working half a year. The other six months he can do whatever the hell he wants. Is that really too much to ask? Act like a pro for half the year and get paid an exorbitant amount of money to do it. How many people would fuck that up because they can't control themselves that long?

This is no ones fault but Johnny. He wasn't being filmed on the down low by a fan. His stupid ass was mugging for the camera. THAT is what Johnny loves. More than he loved his chance at being a starting NFL QB.

A lot of Browns fans didn't want to take Johnny last year because we knew he was a clown that would do nothing but bring a circus to town and cause major distraction. And dude did nothing but prove us right. That is exactly what he did...and nothing else. Except waste his rookie season learning nothing.

We absolutely cannot depend on Johnny this season. He hasn't given any reason to think we can.

Haven't been around for a while. Been taking a much needed hiatus from this shit show of an organization. It's been refreshing.

I was born and raised a Browns fan. I live in Columbus surrounded by Bengals and Steeler fans, but I have never once even considered giving up my beloved Browns....until now. We've gone into many an off season since the return with not much hope for the next year, but, IMO, it's never been this bad. And that says a lot. This team has been a laughing stock over the past 15 seasons, but at least it was in our own little cocoon world. The moment we drafted Johnny, we put ourselves into the national spotlight, and ended up looking like fools. I cannot and will not support that stupidity. Drafting Johnny was plain stupid for this organization. We were not even remotely prepared for any of the chaos that came with him. This kid managed to embarrass the Browns. Let that sink in for a moment. We needed no help in being an embarrassment, but we sure got some. We went from being an afterthought embarrassment around the league, to a very public joke on a national level. Thing is, I can't blame Johnny for that. Whoever thought drafting him was a good idea is to blame. Farmer or Haslam. That's what gives me little inclination to continue supporting this organization. Separate from the FO, I love the team and coaching staff. Very tricky issue for me right now.

What I do know is that if the FO decides to compound the issue by handing Johnny the starting gig next season, I won't be watching. It's just another train wreck waiting to happen. I can't do it. I have no faith in the kid. He hasn't given me any reason at all to have any faith. He's done not one thing to prove me wrong about him. Not one. I hope his rehab was his decision and not a PR move from his agent, but I have serious doubts. As a human being, I hope the kid finds his way. I even have sympathy for him to an extent. I think there might be a bit of him losing some of the love of the game that came with all the hype. I also feel like if that's the case, the best thing for him would be to take a step back, get away from the spotlight for a while and concentrate on rebuilding that love of the game. I'm just not sure his "people" will allow that to happen. He's become a brand instead of a person to them. But before he can even start that process, he has to battle the addiction and immaturity issues.

For me, even if he does everything right, and works his tail off, gets his addictions under control, and loses the hype of Johnny Football, I'm still not convinced he's an NFL QB. Just feel like the mountain he has to climb is too steep and my patience has worn too thin. Another point to consider is that if all that happens and he becomes a mega star again, will he be able to control those same demons that has landed him here? I feel for the kid, but the Browns had no business drafting him into an organization with tenuous stability. That's no place for a kid like him to be successful. He should never have been drafted as someone's savior. A kid who most likely never held a job in his life was expected to take on probably the hardest job that exists for a pro athlete. Bad idea.

I'd cut him. He hasn't stayed out of trouble since he's been in college. How many times does he get to mess up, apologize, and be accepted back into the fold? Just like Johnny, hes all talk, no action. I'm sorry he had a rough childhood, but he's no different than MANY children growing up that way. It doesn't give him any excuses anymore. He's made his way out of that. If anything it should make him even MORE determined to do better.

He was not only not helpful in his return this season, he was a hindrance. He played lazy and uninspired. It may not cost the team anything to keep him, but what good does it do? If he can't stay out of trouble, and therefore can't play, why are we wasting our time trying to babysit him?

I don't know if he's an addict. Frankly I don't think that's the problem. I think he's lazy, and too immature to get what he's doing to himself and the team.

"Play like a Brown" is nothing more than talk if the team doesn't back it up with action. No better than those players who keep screwing up, apologizing, and screwing up again. Why should they do any different if the team doesn't act on the talk either?

@playgroundlegend said:

What is this then?

"He makes things happen. He's a very exciting player. He was throwing the ball really well"

He was extending plays, making plays, making plays down the field, putting the ball where it needs to be. He was making the defense work, so it was a good sight to see.'

Obviously you didnt read it

Dude, I don't care anymore. I didn't see any of that in his two starts. NONE, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH. He looked like a high school boy playing against grown men.

I'm over him. Sick of hearing about him all the time. The rest of the team is in his shadow for NO reason. It's repulsive. Sorry. You keep lapping up his greatness all you want. I haven't seen at if it.

I think it's sad this whole team has become the Johnny Manziel's instead of the Cleveland Browns. Ask Joe about his play. The great secondary we have. His being named the global ambassador for special Olympics. All anybody wants to know about is Johnny. It's past old anymore. It's been going on since the moment he was drafted and I've had more than enough of Johnny Manziel to last a lifetime. Hope it's over soon. I feel for the rest of the guys on the team, who apparently, don't matter. Lets just change the name of the team to Johnny Distraction and the rest of them.

Defensive leaders defending him. Meh. Not impressed. Joe says he was getting things done with his feet in practice. That wouldn't surprise me at all seeing as how this defense couldn't stop the run of any other team this year. Recall the Jacksonville game when a former college QB turned NFL RB ran all over us. So did Jake Locker till he got hurt. I'm not impressed that Johnny made plays with his feet against our d line in practice. He made no mention of lil man throwing the ball well against that secondary in practice. In fact he said..."our defense is very good." Why yes, the SECONDARY is very good and the reports were that he was completing less than 50% of his passes in practice. Adds up right to me.

Joe Haden is an impressive man as is Karlos Dansby. Johnny...not so much.

I think we should re-sign Hoyer. We desperately need continuity in the leadership role on the offensive side of the ball. With our OC being new...again...Hoyer is the best option. I see no reason to sign one of the other free agents that will be available as none of them are significantly better. With Hoyer we know he can win in the division, which is where turning things around starts. What do we gain by bringing in Sanchez? He will want paid to come to Cleveland like any other guy. Lets just pay the one we know.

I think too many people have given up too quick on Hoyer. I know he struggled down the stretch, but, IMO, that's not reason enough to start over again. He won some really good games for us. Admit it, we all had our chests puffed out when we throttled Pittspuke and the 'Nasty. His best games were against division opponents. How great would it be to go into next season knowing we have a shot to at least split the division games? Baby steps, folks. We're all so battle worn that we just want a quick fix, but I don't believe it will ever happen that way for us. We need stability first and Hoyer can provide that. Hoyer's struggles had as much to do with defenses figuring out Shanahan as they did with Hoyer. We also have to remember this was his first full season, and he was coming off a knee injury that normally takes two years to recover from. So he was basically a rookie as far as game experience, but with a veteran knowledge of the game. He's already been groomed by better than anything we've ever had in Tom Brady. I don't see how having him back sets us back at all. It's better than trusting lil Johnny to do the right thing, and better than starting over. Unless a team is willing to trade us their franchise QB, Hoyer is our best option.

I also think a lot of Hoyer's struggles were brought on by all the pressure of Johnny Football that weren't about the game itself. He was trying to maintain confidence with all the noise and a monkey hanging on his back.

Winston is a head case. This team cannot afford anymore head cases, especially at the most important position. I'm scared of Mariota. Good kid, but the toughness it takes to compete in the AFCN...just don't see it in him. Plus, he's another system guy. Draft a guy later in the draft. One that runs a more pro style offense and let Hoyer teach him the pro game until he's ready. Or if he comes out of the gate and outplays Hoyer...a la Russell Wilson, then by all means, start him right away.

The thing that stands out to me is that the majority of the top tier, playoff QB's have been on the same team in the same system for many years. Aside from Luck, the most pro ready QB to come out of college in a generation, and Wilson, who has to be an anomaly and has the drive and desire to be the best under 6' QB in the league, taken in the third round. Manning going to the Broncos was lateral because he took his offense with him after already having been in it multiple years.

We have to give a guy in one system a chance to get there at some point. I don't think the answer is a star rookie first rounder unless he is Andrew Luck. That's the only way to build from the top down. Otherwise you have to do it from the trenches up.

In his mind, he worked really hard this season. He had to show up to an actual job every day on time, and he couldn't even handle that much. He 100% believes he earned his vacay and is going to enjoy every second of it.

This incident is much ado about nothing, but when you compound it with everything else he has done and said, its going to be blown out of proportion. Sooner or later this kind of thing is going to turn into something ugly. Whether it's his direct doing or just because hes an easy target now. His level of play is not worth all the headache that comes with him. Course, I knew this back in May.

^ Delusional or a con. I'm leaning toward the latter.