^ Well profootballfocus says that Hall was really good for a long time. He also received a really big second contract which teams don't give to average players. So I'm right and your wrong.

@the-gipper said:

Hall has been average at best...except perhaps for one year. Haden had a bad year last year due to injuries.

You think you know more than the players of the NFL, the coaches of the NFL, the GMs of the NFL...who have put Joe Haden into the Pro Bowl....and who have never seen fit to put Hall into the Pro Bowl.

Hall: an average NFL player. Serviceable, yes. Probably better than a lot of guys the Browns have had.....but not a plus player.

So your argument is that there is only one way to evaluate whether a player is good. Was he ever a pro bowler?

According to this line of thinking, Fred Taylor was "average at best" Joey Galloway was "average at best" And Vince Young who completed 51% of his passes, threw more INTs than TDs and had a 66 passer rating in 2006 was great because he was selected by "players and coaches" to go to the pro bowl? Great argument Gipper.

The pro bowl is really about the worst way to evaluate players. It's not really worth discussing if you are sold on this idea that only players that make pro bowls are good. Vince Young made 2 pro bowls, was he a plus player? Joey Galloway never made the pro bowl. Fred Taylor never made a pro bowl. Marques Colston never made a pro bowl. All great players.

Haden was good early in his career but hasn't been good since 2013. Hall has always been good even if he hasn't made pro bowls.

@the-gipper said:

@jdawg1 said:

Leon Hall a borderline player? That is just silly. He was a top-10 CB for a long time. He has certainly had a better career than Joe Haden who was listed as a "plus player."

I am not buying that at all....and, again, borderline doesn't mean borderline bust.

Leon Hall has played for 9 years...and has not made a single Pro Bowl. I think you have to make some Pro Bowls to be considered a plus player.

Joe Haden has only played 6 years and made several Pro Bowls.

Joe is a Pro Bowl player, Hall is not.

Levi Jones and Brian Simmons were also very good players.

I would have to do more research on them....or actually, you need to produce evidence of your opinion before I revise my ranking.

But clearly you guys are freaked out over semantics with the term borderline. Like I said, I probably needed to break this down into the 4 categories that I had put above, instead of the original just 3 categories.

Not that PFF is the be all end all, but I'll take their word over evaluating players based on how many pro bowls they made.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/five-years-of-pff-grades-top-10-cornerbacks/

@the-gipper said:

I don't think so....as for an overall career the guys you mention either didn't last long or didn't produce up to their draft position. They stay in the middle of the road category. And yes, a short career can lead to an "average" ranking. The one guy I thought about was Reid.....I know he was a good player, but he was only in the league 5-6 years. And, yes, an injury can cause someone to be a bust. As with Cook the same can be said for Kijana Carter. Unfortunate, yes, but they still get the bust grade as they just didn't have much of a career.

Leon Hall a borderline player? That is just silly. He was a top-10 CB for a long time. He has certainly had a better career than Joe Haden who was listed as a "plus player."

Levi Jones and Brian Simmons were also very good players.