I don't know if he's a good coach or not, but I assume he brings extreme athletic competitiveness to anyone he coaches simply because as a player he was the absolute epitome of a hard hitting fearless player. One of my all time favorite players, I think he's a positive on your staff.

Very nice sentiment and I agree. Happy New Years Browns Board!

Double post

ESPN today announced Gruden "signed a multi-year extension with ESPN this fall and remains committed to being a part of Monday Night Football for many years."

Ram fans are speculating that the San Diego GM encouraged that rumor to keep a foothold in San Diego. Bottom line, ESPN did throw water on the rumor, but on the other hand Gruden hasn't said anything. I have a sense most Ram fans are hoping for Fisher.

Regarding Shurmur - as I said before having Shurmur as an OC was a painful experience, sort of like intensely disliking a situation where one guy had the power to turn a football team into a timid display of gutlessness. But as I also pointed out on your forum, the Browns games I've seen this year showed me that Shurmur is opening it up a little.

As far as Holmgren goes, I was never impressed with anything about him. As a coach he never showed my much on the sidelines. We'd play his teams and I'd always scratch my head at his poor in game decision making. More than once I couldn't believe a stupid decision here or there - plus poor clock management. I've always thought Holmgren was one of the most overrated guys in football. I wasn't surprised with his lack of ability (in my opinion) he hired Shurmur. Simply a case of never being impressed with either one.

I don't mean to pile on negative thoughts. I really like the Browns. And maybe Shurmur will turn out to be a good coach - but - he'll probably never be as aggressive as I'd like a coach to be. Personally I like super aggressive coaching such as a Chip Kelly type.

As a fifty year Ram fan I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say Shurmur was the most universally hated Ram OC since the late fifties. His play calling was timid to the point of lunacy. Totally disgusting with no balls. It seemed 99% of 3rd down pass completions in the "Murmur" offense were thrown short of the first down. Getting rid of Shurmur was a glorious day for Ram fans. I couldn't believe anyone would be stupid enough to hire him, particularly as a HC.

Having said all that I watched the Steelers game last night and Shurmur has come a long way. He's gone from being a total wuss to a guy that can call a decent game. I didn't agree with everything in the Steeler game, I couldn't believe he didn't go with the QB sneak at the goal line, but all in all you guys have no idea how badly he sucked for the Rams.

There could be a few things going on:

First, it's possible Shurmur is learning and developing his play calling skills. This isn't likely, you either have the God-given talent to know how to manage a game or you don't - but it is possible.

Secondly, it turns out Sam Bradford may actually really suck - Bradford could end up being a bust, he's been awful this year. It's possible Shurmur dialed it down last year because it was his only option.

Colt McCoy looks infinitely better than Sam Bradford, and Shurmur is letting McCoy do a lot more than he let Bradford do last year.

I don't know what the bottom line is, like I said, if it's any consolation Shurmur is a million times better (more aggressive) with the Browns as he was with the Rams.

7-3 game.

Shurmur has opened it up. Shurmur is no longer the Murmur offense. You guys may have something in Shurmur.

Go Browns!

You got a Rams fan tonight as a Browns fan. I hope Shurmur, the architect of the famed "Murmur" offense in St Louis can man up and call an aggressive game for you guys.

I've always liked the Browns, great history. Go Browns!

Agreed Choco 100%, but his dad has been adamant.

I can see him sitting out waiting for a trade. How much could he make in Canada? We'll see.

I live in Pac-12 land, I'm a huge Oregon fan, and I've seen a lot of Luck. Luck didn't have a good game obviously, but I've seen enough to trade Bradford for him in a heartbeat. In fact, I'd take Luck over most QB's in the league.

Luck's dad has been very forthcoming regarding exerting leverage regarding where his son will play. Just because a team drafts Luck doesn't mean he'll play there. Also, there is no guarantee Luck will even come out this year, he has one more year of college eligibility.

Bottom line, if the Rams draft Luck (unlikely) I think there is no way his dad allows him to go to St Louis. If the Colts draft him, I think he goes there. I think the most interesting aspect with Luck is where his dad allows him to go play.

You guys should have won that game.

Shurmur actually showed a pulse, (amazing) but I would have thrown at least once into the endzone on that final drive. Maybe twice.

The problem with Shurmur is he sucks the life out of a team with his timidity. The sooner he's gone the better for the Browns, just like the sooner Spags is gone the better for the Rams. Shurmur and Spags in my opinion are the two worst coaches in the league bar none.

Good luck the rest of the way to you guys.

@the-gipper said:

Most of us here, I presume, would not be so charitable if our team left town.....and let me be clear....the Browns franchise never left town, ever.

I think in all the years since Modell tried to move the Browns I have only heard of 1 person who claimed to continue to follow the Ravens because they felt that bastard franchise born of a whore in Baltimore was still "their team". It isn't.

In your case, at least you can continue to root for the laundry that left because you have had no replacement. (Hell, in Baltiwhore even the laundry is different).What if a team relocated to LA? Would you switch?

Gipper, first of all, Art Modell is the shame of the universe; despicable. His word meant nothing. The name Art Modell is tainted.

If a team relocated to LA I couldn't switch. I've talked about it with my brother, we've had serious discussions regarding the potential of switching to a franchise moving to LA (including the Chargers formerly in LA) or a brand new franchise to LA. We can't do it, we can't change no matter what.

You have it pretty sweet in Cleveland. You have your team.

It'll get better. The Cleveland Browns are cool. Always will be.

Hey Gipper, what's up.

The Rams are in my heart and burned into my soul. I couldn't change teams if I wanted to. Although these current loses leave me void of emotions. I'm in total apathy mode - I still love the Rams and always will.

I'm looking forward to the day Rams ownership throws out GM Devaney and Spags. In my opinion Spagnuolo is the worst coach in Rams history. Spags is so awful with game management he literally snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. He sucks so bad it makes me sick watching him on the sidelines.

And make no mistake, Shurmur is the epitome of timidness, he'll drive you totally crazy.

Hi guys,

Lifelong LA Rams fan here. As a kid growing up in LA in the 50's my two favorite teams were the LA Rams and the Cleveland Browns. We collected football cards and the Cleveland Browns cards were really cool, I don't know why. I'm not here to cause trouble, I'm a Browns fan when the Rams are out of it.

I feel sorry for the Browns organization hiring Holmgren. In my opinion Holmgren as a coach, particularly in Seattle, displayed terrible clock and game management skills and was only successful in Green bay as a coach due to the pure luck of having athletes on his team.

As a GM Holmgren completely failed in Seattle and it's no wonder, he never proved anything anywhere on his own. He has no talent, he's never proven he has talent.

It's not surprising Holmgren hired Shurmur, the mastermind of the timid "Murmur" offense.

Rest assured on third down your QB will complete a short pass three or four yards shy of the first down.

I could care less who wins this game.

There was a time I lived and died by the Rams - but when an organization stinks from the GM to the coach such as the Rams, well, who effing cares.

Just hoping for no injuries and maybe in the future these two teams can regain some lost glory.