@cribbs-is-the-man said: Why cant/dont we do this then if it is so successful? Because we have the west coast offense

I was shocked yesterday espn did a top 5 of qbs who wore the number 12 and left colt off the list

I didn't realize the extent to which that abomination, the Baltimore Ravens, are essentially Belichick's bastard child, and that the success of their entire organization basically came through him from his time spent in Cleveland. And while this isn't meant at all to rub salt in your wounds, it seems pretty clear that all of the football success that we've enjoyed here in New England, the Dynasty, the Superbowls, the lasting legacy of success that will now carry us forward even after Brady and Belichick one day retire, putting us with the great NFL organizations of the league, may have, if not for a strange twist of fate, instead belonged to the Cleveland Browns. It's an amazing story I think more football fans should know. You guys are the martyrs of the NFL. Every true fan of football should also find it in them to be a Cleveland Browns fan as well. Best of luck in the rebuilding of your football team. To some extent, perhaps you are right, the Ravens may be Belichick's bastard child.....but I think that takes away from the job that Ozzie Newsome did in putting that team together....after and without the help of BB. And it is highly difficult to second guess what would have happened here. As long as Modell was going to be the owner things were going to be done on a shoestring with the Browns. Had he, say, sold the team to Lerner then perhaps we would have simply had the same results that the Lerner ownership gave us....only a couple of year's earlier. I, for one, am not going to lay the failures of the Browns the past 13 years on the loss of Bill Belichick...or even on Art Modell. Not directly anyway. Those failures have been the result of the poor management under Randy Lerner for the most part...and his various minions that he brought in here to try to run things. Kokinis, Savage, Davis, Holmgren, Dwight Clark etc. All did a piss poor job. Compare to the Houston Texans who were "born" as an expansion team 3 years after the Browns were "reborn". They may in fact be the very best team in the NFL right now. So its not like the Browns could not have been successful. They just weren't because of poor ownership/management. As for Cleveland being martyrs. I wouldn't feel that sorry for us. Cleveland/Northeast Ohio has won 13 Championships over the years (tied for most with Green Bay). New England has won 4, including the 1928 Providence Steam Roller title. We only took several decades off to allow someone to catch up. Green Bay caught up two years ago. Now it may be time for Cleveland to splurge back ahead.

@choco said: how? he was on IR all last year....if we sign him back, it'd be an addition. the loss of the depth was cousins, greco (tendered?), and hicks. Greco got an extension. Hicks is in FA, I don;t know about Cousins, he might get resigned.

Zombo said: I hear Terry Kirby is still in good shape. Z And Boyce Green and Ben Gay may be looking to get back into the league.

a dummy on the sidelines and an egghead in the booth. sounds like a script for a WB cartoon.

@the-gipper said: You would trade Wallace for DeCastro? Don't you listen to Ghoolie? OLinemen are a dime a dozen compared to skill players. You should be looking at your 6th round pick to get your OL, not 1st round. I honestly think I would and we'd still have our other first to draft BPA. It would likely take a first and a 3rd, maybe a little more to move up in to DeCastro range. We need another Faneca type on our line and no I don't believe elite o-lineman are a dime a dozen. It's certainly easier to plug in a capable player and still function but you notice elite lineman. EDIT: And I know you're poking at Ghoolie.

@vizion said: Are you kidding? Has anybody in the NFL ever outbid Daniel Snyder on anything? It's not about how much money Lerner has it's about the fact that Snyder throws it away like it's absolutely nothing on that organization and Lerner doesn't do that with the Browns (smartly). Lerner would actually think "the price is too high" or "that's too much" while Snyder would just give it away (this is the man who okay'd giving Haynesworth $100 million) There seems to be a debate as to whether or not it would be legal. It doesn't seem like it would be, but apparently it's not specifically stated in the rules. The Redskins already said they are absolutely not giving draft picks up for Peyton Manning. I think they are definitely the Browns biggest competition for RG3 and the thing that concerns me most is the close relationship between Fisher and Shanahan. I wouldn't be surprised if they made a deal way before draft day. Also, I have to honestly ask, what key players on the Browns do you think we could trade? I hate to sound negative, but I'm not sure who anyone would want - particularly at the most coveted skill positions (RB, WR, TE, LB, DB) To answer your first question last- the Browns have Ward, Haden, and Thomas as potential players another team could want. The Redskins have Gaffney and Orakpo. OK, let's do a hypothetical Snyder gives away the farm to get RGIII. His first & second rounders this year, next year's first and Gaffney (who the Rams could use). We're not matching that level of stupidity. I'm on record the most I would give up (in addition to our #4 overall) is our second rounder this year and a third next year.

Childress ? If only we fired Dick Jauron and replaced him with another impotent OC we will be Cleveland's own dysfunctional family.

@lionsfanvisiting said: I think it might be smarter for Cleveland NOT to trade up. I mean, its not like you guys DONT have a QB. Because if you do trade up, most likely youre gonna have to give up #22. So ask the question, would I rather have ONE or TWO first round players? To me, i would rather have 2. Especially for a team with multiple needs. Just my 2 cents. And we all agree with you. So please dont believe any mock drafts by any experts that say we will trade both our picks for #2. It is not worth it.

we gotta get that guy!

@the-gipper said: The Cowboys have won one single playoff game in like the last 20 years (since their last SB title). The Browns have done that well. Until this year, the Niners hadn't even made the playoffs for a decade. Until Peyton Manning arrived the Colts had been garbage for 25 years. A lot of it has to do with the coach. (see Pats under BB), or QB (Colts with Manning), or both (Pats again) Some of it is indeed "system", "front office" "ownership"....those are the ones that maintain. Steelers, yes. Giants, Packers perhaps. Likewise the "bad teams" could be attributed to ownership. The Lions under William Clay Ford. The Cardinals under Bidwill. The Colts under Irsay Sr. ...and yes, the Steelers under Art Rooney Sr. It wasn't until Dan Rooney took over as the effective owner of the team in the 60s/70s that the Steelers began winning. Randy Lerner certainly isn't off to a good start with his ownership. But, things can and do turn around. I agree....... I really thought Holmgren would have had this team turned around very quickly. Maybe I'm puting too much on Holmgren but, it just seems like his influence hasn't showed up as much as I expected. I think this season should be a stepping stone towards the right direction for the Browns.

the projection for the redskins is to be about 15 mil under the cap if they sign they're key FAs, so they likely have the money to get it done.

I don't think so. The Steelers who defensive line was back ups. They were also missing their starting safety. I think with their starters, I may have gone a different way. But Ike Taylor should get MVP for the Broncos, lol.

Zombo said: This is sad... Oh good Lord. Yes, that too is sad. Yikes, hope that fedora was just Ben loosing a bet with Elvis Dumervil.

@bringbackbrownie2 said: It's not that I don't like Luck. The problem is we would have to sacrifice the 2012 and 2013 draft. A 4-12 team can't afford to do that when they lack talent in many areas.. Maybe Holmgren will see Luck like the Browns Neo and lead the organization out of the "Matrix". Lucks record: 1.8-8 2.8-8 3.10-6, upstart wild card browns lose to Colts in AFC title game 4.7-9 5.9-7 6.10-6, browns fall in wild card game 7.8-8 8.12-4, Browns lose in AFC title game again to Colts on Luck pick 6 9.8-8 10.11-5 Browns lose in divisional playoff 11.4-5 Luck tears ACL, cut by Browns after season.

It's Shumrmur's playbook not Holmgren's.

No thanks. We dont need a Pittsburgh Retread- I would rather take BE.

For Browns related: Dear Santa, I'd like a beastly Linebacker the likes of Clay Matthews. A Defensive end that rushes so good the Offense needs 3 lineman to focus on him during the game. And lastly I'd like a Shutdown cornerback opposite Joe Haden to really lock down the passing game and give my #1 more time to dominate the Oline. That's all.

Keep Hillis! The horrible play at O-Line the IR of Steinbach and the loss of Vickers to FA coupled with the injuries and Madden Curse have all held Hillis back. If he walks and runs over the comp somewhere else we'll all be eating crow for years to come. Sign the big guy and get some big guys in front of him and let him grow. This is only his second season as a starting HB and he's got great hands. Despite all the squeaky wheels in our fan base a lot of fans like me STILL LOVE THE GUY! So Yea from me for Hillis in 2012!