@westside-steve said:

Good to see you Sev.

How's it going?

WSS!!

Swamped with work and family thanks for asking.

Love this thread, I have not poked in here in quite some time.

Not real ground breaking.

South Korea and most of the developed world has had high speed, remote controlled miniaturized air craft as well as sea and land.

Russia is the interesting player here as a major weapons/tech supplier to Syria as well as China..... so the countries still pulling the strings are the same ones we have been in "cold wars" with for years.

Russia and China..... same players, same results and frankly we do the exact same thing.

@calfoxwc said:

And obamao and Higgardly didn't "infight"

hah.

The Difference Cal is pretty important.

BOTH Obama AND Hillary could win the women and moderate independents who are crucial and swing constituents in the national POTUS race.

Gingrich/Santorum can not and will not win those two crucial groups. ONLY Romney has a shot at them... and that is a maybe.

The POTUS race is really based now on the independents and women turn out who can swing the votes. The Right and Left (with all their sub groups) basically off set each other (for now until white voters become the minority) its the swing voters in the middle (women and independents) decide the POTUS election.

The Republicans WILL lose unless they put up Romney.... and to Bunkers only hope which is outside influences like Greece that can hurt our economy(thru no fault of the Obama admin) could swing the race.

Like I have stated before, this administration did a great turn around because this race is all about economic growth versus depression bank collapse, auto industry collapse, real estate industry collapse, 2 wars, Wall street corruption.....

You cant turn around a aircraft carrier on a dime..... and typically things get worse before they get better in order to bottom out. Which is precisely what happened and real estate, construction, wall street, bank/insurance, hiring, are all on the upswing along with consumer confidence coupled with decreased costs in military spending, removal of two wars, health care fraud is actually being prosecuted along with major cost reductions (in terms of what the government is willing to pay providers with our tax dollars) a consumer protection agency to go after wall street and banks....

Obama did lead this.... oh and not to mention a gutsy executive order to go into nuclear Pakistan and kill Osama Bin Laden which Cowboy Cheney and Bush Jr. failed to do in 7 years.... and also finally removed discrimination against a sexual preference in the military....

I would say those are pretty crazy level accomplishments.... not to mention fighting insurance and the health care industry lobby machine/Republicans to at least START fixing health care (something NO president has been able to do EVER)

Another 4 years with out the need to get reelected and I think we will see some real change.... now that he is seasoned and knows how to deal with clear politically driven Obstructionism/starve the beast tactics from the extreme right.

That is what the Republicans are really afraid of.... the next level of accomplishments and a clear example of the failed extreme conservative/religious driven policies being exposed to a real alternative.

I love the Republican field... IF unemployment keeps dropping it wont matter who the Republicans put up.

IF it is Santorum or Gingrich.... neither of those two will win the moderate independents or women.

Romney/Rubio has the best chance and even that is suspect once the left start the class warfare attack lines linking Romney with being out of touch wall street guy.

Keep it up with the infighting.... this is going to be interesting money lost on infighting just to lose in the general election and further alienate the public from government.

ok Pumpkin I guess we are just at odds on this topic.

As for Al Gore and global warming versus his use, I do agree with you that he should lead by example. That always strengthens your position on any given topic.

Honestly...... his awareness campaign was worth every dirty consumption unit he created.

Global warming is not about us but about our children.

Really?

I have been traveling lately a lot for work and I thought I would poke in...... my goodness.

The White House routinely makes decisions about whats important to disclose..... a Halloween party? Thats what this thread is about?

The President by waking up costs us tons of money every day........ This is a little bit odd that you are politicizing this.

Just my thoughts

Whether its Obama, Bush Jr,Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan its all the same.

All of them have been consolidating power and reducing executive/government accountability to the public. In that regard they are all the same and all motivated to stay in position with the most power and least chance of personal repercussions.

I Hate this and cant for the life of me understand the lack of outrage.... This at this point is not about party politics, this is about how we fundamentally define the basic axioms of who we are as a society.

They are tearing down the values and protections that this country was founded on.

so we have been adding jobs every month for the last 6 months.... the best since 2006

Unemployment is now around 8.5%

The dow trades consistently over 12k....

The auto manufacturers are recovering.....

He inherited the WORST economic condition since the Great Depression and now things are largely stabilized and growing..... DESPITE the fact of politically motivated obstructionism....

He even passed Health and consumer reforms....

Killed Osama

successfully managed Libya.....

ended Iraq... and will have a major draw down in Afghanistan

Banks are largely stabilized......

good luck to the extreme right pandering Republicans...... IF the economy keeps recovering (which it should slowly) by the time the presidential election comes around.... he may win in a landslide.

Die Hard,

phonetically Kim Jong un sounds more like Gim jeung Un (k is more like a hard G sound) j-ee-uh-ng then uh n

I have family in Seoul, I understand your fear... but it is based on the notion of the unknown.

Here are some facts,

groups in power like to stay in power and do not like anything to destabilize the norms that keep them in power.

North Korea does not have any industry for real export besides weapons

North Korea is essentially a fiefdom of China

China does NOT want ANYTHING to interrupt their modernization and positioning in the global economy. China could crush North Korea like and ant anytime they want.

China is a HUGE source of well everything

Listen the Unites States is NOT in the driver seat here and we are not their true target. The "kid" will be handled by some group until he may or may not be able to turn the tables and run things himself. IF that happens then we should be truly worried.

I am worried like you but really at this time it looks as if they are focused on keeping the continuation of power centralized to the military and communist party. That is their number one goal and we are far down on the list, with the exception of uniting their cowed populace against a outside threat.

ever heard the saying "ignorance is bliss"?

that pretty much sums it up, if you walk around in a cloud of self satisfaction ignorant of the larger issues or in general dont care about the plight of others..... well you are going to be happier.

Heck,

Why are you participating with John in this discussion?

Its a simple problem of people who identify themselves as Christians being over sensitive.

Hows was Tebow's last game or last 3 games? Shit..... the law of averages caught up to the hype that people were associating with his ritualistic behavior.

You know what Maher's real problem? its not the content of his positions rather his delivery.

Do Christians Chant incantations? YES they just call them prayers....

Do Christians refer to a "tome" or book of magic? YES its called the bible...

Do Christians believe in the supernatural? YES Angels, demons, heaven, hell overlord beings like Satan, God, Jesus... Holy Spirit, demi gods like Arch Angels.... etc

Do Christians practice magic rituals? YES Baptism, exorcisms, prayers of healing,

They wear funny robes, use magic I mean Holy Water, power relics like crosses etc...

This is all fact they all follow a system that they want to believe some how effects the natural world. They practice a socially acceptable version of magic worship that essentially mimics other magic systems.

John get a thicker skin... if you cant take the criticisms of Hollywood.... which by the way they are brutal on anything than maybe you have a bigger problem.

Like I stated earlier in this thread..... the law of averages would catch up to Tebow and they already have. Luck does not mean supernatural interventionism... its just random but over time patterns prove themselves out.

I dont know if your magic beliefs are the basis of our existence... I highly doubt it. I dont make it practice to define my understanding of the natural world by following the logic of humans 2k plus years ago..... The world was flat and we were the center of our solar system not the sun. Flying would be super natural to them and vaccines would be magic potions and the nuclear bomb would be super natural wrath... Can you imagine what they would think of sonic weapons?

John I would love to see you or any other person on this board meet some of my Arab,Persian or any of the other middle eastern descent friends and call them A-Rabs.... I doubt you would just like I doubt you would ever try to debate the merits of your religion with any geneticist, social anthropologist, etc.

@chicopee-john said:

.....would the 'Hollywood' elite (SNL, Bill Mahar, etc.) be making fun of him?

IMHO, the political elite believe it is fine and dandy to denegrate (sp) Christians, and Jews but not A-Rabs, Atheists, Hindus, etc.?

I know, these folks 'hate' people of these faiths but, in truth, I don't understand why it is so accepted, so pervasive and so 'progressive'?

Again, those who cry, 'Tolerance' at the drop of a dime, become completely intolerant of those who believe in Christianity or Judism?

SNL and Bill Maher have taken shots at Arabs (one of my partners is in Arab and despises the use of A-rab), hindus etc because their job is COMEDY.

I am ok with Tebow believing in whatever superstition, magic chant/prayer, anything he wants. I think Christians who are sensitive to people poking fun at their religion need to grow a thicker skin.

Lots of professional athletes have practiced all kinds of ritualistic acts/superstitions over the years that are subject to ridicule.... its ok if its in a major movie like Major League and its about Voodoo but Christians are not subject to the same levels?

John.... seriously this is much ado about nothing except your sensitivity to your religion. Get over it Tebow's beliefs are subject to the discipline of statistics and averages over time....... No matter what sport/superstition/rituals the law of averages sooner or later apply. Tebow's last game was a testament to the mathematics and analysis of his weakness as a player proving out statistically.

I love the underdog..... Obviously we are all Browns fans we kind of have to love that. Lets not mix up magic and sports and grow some thicker skin.

@westside-steve said:

Hey Sev.

Your criteria don't look all that bad but I think your overlooking the fact that there are a lot of other things that determine whether or not you make it into an ivy league college.

Not to mention the fact that desire and drive really count a lot as far as whether or not you get a degree and how good your grades might be. There are probably a lot of people with a genius iq who attend cleveland state or don't apply themselves all that much or don't go to college at all.

But you probably need more brands to major in engineering at mit than you do for theater at akron u.

WSS

I could not agree more, however I did not want to get lost in the weeds of a subject matter that already is pretty murky... "IQ" is by itself subjective and I dont believe that there is a way to measure and define the different abilities in humans.

I dont want to go too much into that subject because it is just so large, I was just trying to get something simple and sort of objective.

In one of my posts in this thread I referenced an individual that I know personally that did not attend any level of formal higher education. I stand by my opinion that his abilities are well into "genius" or would be graded by the current methodologies and tests into that definition. He could easily attend any school in the U.S. but frankly learns on his own at a frightening speed. He does not care for any formal paper accolades or the methodology of seminar/lab/session to homework/project to quiz/testing.

He learns in more of an experiential method, and supplements from published data..... now that is not the way most people can but for him and I suspect a lot of other more "hands on" leaning individuals this works.

Either way, I stand by my subjective opinions and think the range of intelligence in either party is pretty equal.

Obama (D) 7-8

Dick Armey ranges 6-8

Barney Frank (D) 7-8

Newt Gingrich 6-8

Michelle Bachmann 3-5

Nancy Pelosi (D) 3-5

Harry Reid (D)3-6

Joe Biden (D) 3-5

Charlie Rangel(D) 5-8

Rick Perry 4-5

Ron Paul 7-8

* I went thru each list at random so as not to just look at one party

* I used my scale in defining the values

* college quality was the biggest driving factor sourced from Wikipedia

* tighter ranges are based on my confidence in rendering an opinion

Now that I am done, for me it seems like my perception is that both parties pretty much have parity (based on my subjective opinion)

Just for fun..

Palin 1-3

Bush Jr 3-6.5

Clinton 7-9

Reagan 5-7

Carter 9

Bush Sr 8-9

@heckofajobbrownie said:

You want me to rate these people on their intelligence?

Nancy Pelosi 6.5

Harry Reid 6

Joe Biden 6

Charles Rangel 5.5

Barney Frank 8.5

Does this confirm my bias, too?

Heck are those based on my scale? IF so I dont know a ton about Barney Frank, I am intrigued and going to look up some stuff tonight.

I think to get a better idea of what the 1-10 scale represents may uncover a little more detail John is looking for.

What does 1 represent? 5? 10?

I want to throw out a suggestion:

Lets assume you must be of at least slightly below average intelligence to become a government rep.

1: as a basis should be defined as below average intelligence (but smart enough to attain a college degree at any community level college by just not failing)

2: Community college 3.0 + GPA

3: Average State college 2.0-2.5 GPA

4: Average State college 2.5-3.0 GPA

5: Average State college 3.0+ GPA

6: Private to Ivy league school 2.0-3.0 GPA graduate

7: Private to Ivy league school 3.0 -3.5 GPA graduate

8: Private to Ivy league school 3.5-4.0 GPA graduate

9: Elite engineering school (MIT/CMU level) average graduate

10: Genius

This is just a suggestion, but one I am interested seeing anyones perception of the two cross sections John put forth. I think its a great question of measuring perception.

Let me tell you if that was my son.... I would be upset.

Colt should not have been making any decision after that hit, thats what coaches are paid to do. Regardless of who the backup is and where we stood in the game its a defining moment of the lack of good leadership and critical thinking/care for the players that was shown.

I think there always must be a "human" element that supersedes the value of the entertainment/competitive nature of football.

Just an opinion

Really?

A question that was framed to establish a bias of someone's perception of the IQ of conservative politicians?

Mission Accomplished?

You have to be kidding, the moment Heck put any value on any individual lower than your PERCEIVED sense of what you think is "fair" you "accomplished" your mission.

IF you were trying to understand or find an objective outcome than you can not be the sole arbiter of what is "fair".

The core problem with "conservative" candidates being painted as "dumb" is usually based around positions surrounding Global warming and Evolution.

When you take contrary positions to well established scientific Theories........ you are setting up yourself as having a questionable lack of understanding of basic fundamental principles of reason.... "flat earthers"

Its CLEAR that neither party holds any sort of claim of having more intelligent operatives than the other.

There are clearly intelligent individuals from both parties that have PHD's, Rhodes Scholars,etc as well as there are clearly some individuals who show low levels critical/analytical thinking.

I have met a lot of people over the years that range from nuclear physicists, MD's, engineers, lawyers, etc that have accomplished scholastic and professional achievements that are vertically intelligent in a specific domains.

I have also seen those same individuals show some astonishing inabilities in other areas that are quite low..... One of the most intelligent individuals I have ever met does not have a high school education and yet is extremely successful.

He has multiple holdings and has built up many different businesses in different fields and yet has none of the formal accolades. He shows an astonishing range of quantitative ability in almost everything, yet he looks like a hill jack, speaks like a truck driver and has the attention span of a sparrow.

You cant ask a question like you did and then hold judgement on an issue that has very little way of being objective. The only thing you accomplished was to show you had a bias against any answer Heck would have put forth because of your opinion.

Yes I am with you about patenting genes.... I dont think you patent the code of life.

Like I stated earlier, I personally enjoy the freedoms the internet has..... I also agree that corporate greed and patenting DNA is going WAY to far.

Vapor, I was in a colorful disagreement today with a Lobbyist/Lawyer that deals with Net Neutrality..... One of my jobs is to put him out of business in representing BS legislation to solve a problem that business methodology can solve.

I really do deal a lot with this issue and I do agree with you about the importance of the ecosystem. I temper that hardcore support with my belief that IP protections are necessary for a healthy ecosystem to thrive. The answer is not one sided and lies in the middle with common sense compromise that is based on mutually beneficial long term outcomes for all parties involved.