@thomaspro said:

Why should'nt H&H sign him to a large contract, 8 years 50 million 20 mill guaranteed. Make the Steelers match or we get him and give up our first rounder next year? The guy is a stud and he could be the 1 receiver we are missing on offense who could grow with Weeden and Richardson. Don't crucify me, I am just coming up with some topics to discuss since things are slow this time of year.

Thomaspro

I think it makes more sense now than it did a month ago when we wanted a QB in the draft but were worried we may have to wait another season.

1. We have our QB of the future- if he falls on his face the earliest he would be replaced is two years. So we'll have a first round pick to get one- if it happens.

2. I would say we have 1 missing piece on offense and its a go to WR- question is does Wallace fill that role.

3. He compliments are current WRs very well- Little is his opposite (a bigger Red zone WR). Cribbs, Norwood, Benjamin are your slot smurf WRs your catch and run guys.

4. We have QB with the tools to attack vertically

5. We weaken a division opponent.

I married a Charger fan and her obnoxious Charger loving family.

I point these "Great" Charger moments out frequently.

"The Freeze" 81 playoff game vs. Cincy.

"the Headache" LT out with a headache during the 07 AFC Championship game vs. the Pats.

"Wide right and then Wide left" two consecutive playoff loses at home with missed FG.

Then of course I hear the comment "well the Browns have never been to the Super Bowl." My counter to that - were the Chargers ever really in a Super Bowl- I think Steve Young just threw another TD pass to Jerry Rice. I'm working on a clever name for this game- taking suggestions.

I'm brutal I know- but you fight back when you are outnumbered. I hope the Browns really lay it on the Chargers this year.

I acutally think Cribbs had his best year as a WR whether the numbers back that up or not I don't know.

I'll echo what was said- 1) low cap number and 2) playing for his next contract this year.

Cribbs at this point is not going to fetch you much in a trade. Brandon Marshall didn't get Denver much and he's a #1 WR.

We need a veteran presence as well. When folks on here were crying for trade downs and more draft picks- I personally didn't want to kick off the new season with 15-17 first year rookies many of which would make the team.

Am I missing something did we sign Vincent Jackson and draft Blackmon? We need Cribbs.

What is the bigger mistake?

Admitting you settled on a choice with a guy you selected at 22- and your trying to make him the face of the franchise. Nice way to begin. OR

Telling us all you we're going to select a guy likely to bust in the NFL. I'm actually not disappointed about Wright or Hill- I didn't think they were 1st round guys.

@draftacolypse said:

Hey guys, first post here since i got frustrated with just ranting to friends. Remember the last time we got to the playoffs? We had previously drafted a serviceable qb (derek anderson), a big target wr (braylon edwards), and a phenomenal athlete with tremendous hands at TE(Winslow). we eventually rode these guys to the playoffs.

So why, are we fine drafting zero playmakers at wr/te. and then drafting a servicable qb(weeden), who is also eligible for social security soon, in the first round with no one to throw to? Cribbs is a great playmaker but he isnt the big target or the blazing deep threat that could really open up the run game. other than cribbs i have zero faith in anyone else to either get open AND catch the ball.

Seems like we're replacing a broke-down oxe(hillis), with a fresh oxe(t-rich) to pull our offensive cart. If this is the case i just hope richardson can stay healthy, for his sake and ours.

1. We didn't make the playoffs that season- we were 10-6 and watched Jim Sorgi flush our playoff hopes down the drain that Sunday Night. I bought a Colts shirt and its the first (and last time) I wear another teams logo.

2. DA and Weeden have very similar physical abilities. Although watch some tape of Weeden- he has better touch. In fact we praise the guy for his cannon, but man he can place that back shoulder comeback and loft a fade in the endzone. What I like better about Weeden is his perspective (playing pro baseball failing at it getting back up and working to become a great QB) and he wins games against other greats like (Luck, Griffin and Tannehill). DA had very little in the intangible department. So between the ears I give the nod to Weeden. Advantage now.

3. We don't have a Braylon Edwards when he was actually good. We have two guys that together are pretty close (Cribbs and Little). We forget for each big play Edwards made he had one or two key drops. EVEN.

4. We don't have a Winslow but we have two guys the together are pretty close (Watson, Moore). Winslow was a gamer. Slight advantage then.

5. Hillis is not Richardson. This is where you completely lost me. Richardson can beat you to edge, make a defender miss and stiff arm or run over a tackler if need be. Hillis didn't spread the field- by the way he is in a perfect spot sharing carries with a guy like Charles WHO CAN spread the field. Richardson is going to open up the defense more so than any other guy in a Browns uniform that i can remember. Now you have OLB that are cautious off the flats and biting on playactions and now we have a guy that can carry and catch the ball 30 times a game. You should be excited. Clear advantage now.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

The haul next year doesn't seem to be anything like this year.

Actually after Floyd this draft was a class with alot of 2-4 round talent at WR. I wouldn't call Hill or the kid from Baylor #1 WRs which is what we MAY need. Lots of complimentary WRs, which is what we have to some extent.

And This list left off probably the best overall WR talent - the kid from USC forget his name but the guy caught over 100 passes last year. Is the list above just Seniors?

Too much concern here.

1. Richardson makes a D respect the run.

2. Richardson is a nice option out of the back field through the air- now your making these OLB respect the flats.

3. Weeden can challenge the whole field Safties have to give a cushion

(2 and 3 make guys like Little and Cribbs dangerous- turn the intermediate pass game into longer gains now- catch and run (both are excellent at it).

4. Schwartz and our young oline is arguably the best unit we've had in 20 years.

5. Little sat out a year- now comes into year 2 (usually breakout year for WRs) after doing a respectable job.

6. Overall youth with the guys mentioned.

7. Evan Moore when utilized correctly is a great option. Ben Watson is proven.

We may still need a True #1 WR after this season but there are some nice pieces and a better set-up now for success than we had this past December.

@harry-buffalo said:

They brought him and Matthews in to create 1 complete starting MLB. Matthews on running downs and Rolle on passing downs. He isn't a complete LB he is a situational LB and he didn't do a great job which is expected since he was a late round pick. No one is confusing him for even a solid starter in this league and he is a big reason why they drafted Kendricks out of Cal who is the best MLB in the draft after Kuechly.

Man your tough today.

He was the starter at weakside LB from Week 4 on- had a TD- had 54 tackles- what more do you want from a 6th round pick in their rookie season. Make no mistake- He's no Laurinitas. We'd be doing back flips if Acho gave us that this season. He probably has a solid starter ceiling and at the minimum he's a great special teams player. I'd take that in the 3rd and 4th round too.

Let's just agree he's outplayed his draft position.

Also, Who cares if they drafted a LB- do you realize some teams like the Eagles take best player available and they have that luxury because they have pretty solid rosters prior to the draft.

FYI Rolle worked his way into the starting lineup his rookie year and the games I saw he didn't look out of place at all.

@harry-buffalo said:

It's not necessarily coaching every player on the line. Yes you have a job and when it comes to game time you come first but within Thomas's 5 years on the team and Macks 3 our O-Line in any year has failed to form any kind of nucleus or group mentality past just the starting left side, the side that starts and ends with Thomas and Mack. Who ever is the lucky duck to play between them is going to be included but who ever plays at RG and RT has been left out. Every major group should form this kind of nucleus, a tight nit group. As I said out DB have formed this group, our O-Line hasn't even tried.

I'll maintain...

1. How do you know? For all we know Mack and Lavauo watch film together and discuss DTs each week. Thomas and Pashos possibly shared notes on pass rushers figuring at any moment a team could line a pash rusher on the other side.

2. Talent goes a long ways- coach'em mentor'em up do whatever you want but when you have a revolving door (injuries or guys not cutting it) at the other positions a new nucleus will never take shape. I'm very hopeful moving forward- although I hope th eBrowns consider at a guy like Macrus McNeil so Schwartz can learn for a year and is not just thrown into the mix.

3. I think the mentality of pro football is closer to Take care of your own and you ultimately take care of the team. There is too much prep. to worry about the next guy- OTAs, rookie camps, training camp- I'm sure there is sharing and learning amongst each other, but yo uhave a certain responsibilty to take care of yourself when your a big boy making a living.

"It doesn't matter who you have on the line there are 5 guys so why are our 2 pro bowlers on that line only focusing on helping themselves? They need to care about the whole group including backups, not just the themselves as the starting left side."

I don't agree with this. This is a High School football mentality. These are grown men that make a living and our responsible for their own performance or they wait by the phone for the next opportunity. They meet around the clock to prepare for an opponent studying film and doing walk throughs. Aaron Rodgers complained about Brett Farve- not really stepping up and mentoring but Packer fans and writers didn't come to his rescue- they probably thought take responsibility and learn the position.

Alex Mack and Joe Thomas have enough to worry about. It appears by reports that Joe Thomas worries about others as well- nothing was reported about Alex Mack but can we just leap to a conclusion that he doesn't help others?

@harry-buffalo said:

If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something. They didn't. You have as much perspective as me so just cause your so far up Thomas' ass it's just making see through his shit colored glasses. As previously stated this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond. The left side between Thomas and Mack have one but they haven't tried to including the whole line.

"If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something????" Because they have duty to say something. You are right I have the limited perspective like you have so I'm not going to make inferences like you have- I'm going to go off of training camp reports- just like I have from Browns or Ex-Browns reporters- who may not include everything I'm sure, but what they report is as close to fact as you or me the average fan will ever get.

"this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond."- Kinda hard to make a bond with a revolving door at RT, and until recently the guard position. Is this Thomas' fault or even Mack's fault? Do you want them to "train up" Cousins for the waiver wire?

Trying to "include" the whole line sounds childish why doesn't the GM and HC try to include the right people- well it looks like they just have- so now we can all bond- maybe?

Aug 9. Grossi in the PD... " "Thomas said, "A good tackle, if you notice [the defensive end is] leaning [with head down] like that, they'll just take you and throw you down to the dirt and bounce your head off the ground. It's a quick learning lesson."

That happened a few times to Sheard in the first week of practice, when Thomas was mostly preoccupied with his own assignments in the new offense. He told Sheard to give him a week or so and then he would teach him a few things, and that's what is taking place now.

"[Teaching him] whether he's giving anything away or if there's anything he does consistently that the tackle's going to pick up on," Thomas said. "Just how to play a tackle during a game, whether it's the first rush, or how to set him up during a game." " Is this the definition of taking someone under their wing- if not what is? "Why didn't he take Lauvou under his wing and help him out on the sidelines and in the huddle." Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Lauvou just isn't that good.

When Cousins got tossed in there why wasn't he trying to help him learn his plays and work on his pass blocking. What do you want during the season you have 5 days to watch film and heal your wounds from the week before. Again Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Cousins just isn't that good.

"One area of the team that needs to work on this is the O-Line and I think that has been the reason they have under performed the past few seasons. Obviously RT has been a huge issue but it seems like since Thomas was stuck being the only good OL for a few season he just kind of worries about himself and at most only worried about his side of the line. We could see the camaraderie that Thomas, Steinbach, and Mack shared but there is still two other people on the line and every interview you here all 3 of those guys talking about the left side this the left side that while our right side was a revolving door."

Is this fact?

Thomas in my opinion has been a great teammate- look what he did with Sheard last training camp. I think Pinkston showed improvement as well can we attribute some of that to the guys around him. As far as the play on the field and helping during a game- All Thomas does is lock down a defender (usually the teams best pash rusher) if you or anyone else wants him to stand on his head and do the job of three other lineman we have to look at expectations.

53:

QB – Weeden / McNabb or AJ Feeley/ Lewis

RB – Richardson / Hardesty/ (Sign a Short yardage Goaline back)

FB – Marecic/ Smelley

WR 1 – Little / Cribbs / Norwood

WR 2 – Massaquoi / Benjamin / Mitchell

TE – Watson / Moore / Cameron

LT – Thomas

LG – Pinkston / Greco

C – Mack / Daniels

RG –Lauvao/ Miller

RT – Schwartz / Cousins/ (Sign Marcus McNeil 1 yr. Deal)

RDE – Rucker (1st and 2nd down) / Benard (3rd down)

RDT – Rubin / Hughes

LDT – Taylor / Witt

LDE – Sheard / Parker

WLB – Gocong / Acho

MLB – Jackson / Maiava

SLB – Fujita / Johnson / (Frank Zombo Packers)

CB 1 – Haden / Skrine

CB 2 – Patterson / Wade

FS – Brown / Young

SS – Ward / Hagg

K – Dawson

P – Hodges

LS - Yount

• Trade McCoy for Zombo.

• (Sign Marcus McNeil 1 yr. Deal) ease Schwartz into the lineup.

• Trade Wallace for conditional late round draft pick.

• Drop Jackson and add a goal line back.

• Acquire Feeley or McNabb for Insurance.

September 9th vs. Eagles: Loss

September 16th @ Bengals: Win

September 23rd vs. Bills: WIN

September 27th @ Ravens: LOSS

October 7th @ Giants: Loss

October 14th vs. Bengals: WIN

October 21st @ Colts: WIN

October 28th vs. Chargers: Win

November 4th vs. Ravens: LOSS

November 18th @ Cowboys: LOSS

November 25th vs. Steelers: Loss

December 2nd @ Raiders: Loss

December 9th vs. Chiefs: Win

December 16th vs. Redskins: Win

December 23rd @ Broncos: LOSS

December 30th @ Steelers: LOSS

7-9.

Homotron said:

I'm a bit of a draft nerd and my primary Steeler board is VERY, VERY mock draft heavy leading in to the draft. We also have a few scouts so I read up plenty on a TON of prospects especially those the Steelers may be interested so it's not like I'm pulling stuff from my ass. Schwartz may be the best "Pure RT" in the draft but that's like saying he's the second cutest bridesmaid. A left tackle is going to be able to play right tackle and passing on Glenn and Martin was a mistake by the Browns if they wanted to go o-line. Glenn CAN play RT and Martin certainly can as well and both were players with first or second round grades that fell. Either way Schwartz isn't a bum he just wasn't a great pick ESPECIALLY when they Browns need a WR and there were plenty on the board when he was selected. John Hughes was mocked in SEVERAL prominent mock drafts in the 7th round. I saw him on at least 10 occasions ranked in the 250 or worse range and he was drafted in what the 3rd round? Benjamin was also taken higher than he should have been and Mike Wallace is arguably one of the fastest players in the NFL. I guess Benjamin is immediately Mike Wallace. Nevermind the highest I saw him ranked on the various pre-draft big boards was in the 170's. Wallace was also a 3rd round selection.

No problem with the Schwartz pick. I was thinking J. Martin in the weeks leading up to the draft- and I comfortable finding more out about Schwartz that he can be every bit as good if not better. Benjamin is knocked as a speed track guy that plays football- I actually see some decent hands in some of the tape that I saw. At the very least he is a great special teamer- what more can you ask for in the 4th round. I know WR is not fixed, (or was it???Richardson, Weeden) but it wasn't our only need. Having said that, I would have much rather drafted TY Hilton over Benjamin instead of Hughes and used the 1st 4th round pick on a Corner. FYI T. Rich is a draft. I can't wait to actually see a superstar playmaker in a Browns uniform. I'm proud that the Browns FO didn't giving into the this is not a RB League- true...if you don't have an elite back.

AND my opinion is based on a lot of reading leading up to the draft. I haven't watched tape on all these guys but from what I've read the Browns reached on everything from round 1 with Weeden all the way through Benjamin. It's also why the Browns draft is getting C's across the board. If not for Richardson and some late round gems like Winn it would be a pretty poor draft considering the Browns had 13! draft picks with two in the first round. You should have had a Bengal type draft and the Browns floundered.

Chew on this one a bit as well.

McCoy, Julio Jones and Richardon OR Weeden, Little, Richardson. The Browns reached for Weeden when they needed a receiver. Holmgren didn't expect the Titans to draft Jeffery and when they did you got Weeden. Who will be 33 when his first contract expires.

That's too easy to use that comparison- we also have a young promising DT and a starting fullback (not sold on him though). I'll take Jones over Little, but I'd probably think twice about it if you consider Little and Taylor or Jones. Here's what I'm looking at with Weeden...If he can elude pressure as well as McCoy this pick Weeden at #22 is fine by me. McCoy was very good at feeling pressure and making plays (although they weren't big plays) but I think he also put himself in that position quite a bit by not processing defensive schemes quickly enough. There are people on here that are really down on last years oline- go back and watch last years sacks- I would put 80% of them on Colt. That's not to say he wouldn't get better at it. All else considered- Weeden's arm is legit the dumb INTs worry me.

Oline (9)

Thomas

Schwartz

Cousins

Lauvao

Pinkston

Greco

Miller

Mack

Add a veteran RT (a potential starter or a guy to compete with Schwartz) Marcus McNeil 1yr. deal?

QB (3)

Weeden

McCoy or Wallace (One will be on the roster)

Lewis

Add a Veteran QB and get rid of both McCoy and Wallace?

RB (3)

Richardson

Hardesty

Jackson or Ogbonnaya

Add a short yardage goal line back get rid of both Jackson and Ogbonnaya?

FB (2)

Marecic

Smelley

WR (6)

Little

Cribbs

Massaquoi

Benjamin

Norwood

Mitchell

TE (3)

Watson

Moore

Cameron

DLine (8)

Sheard

Parker

Winn

Taylor

Hughes

Rubin

Rucker

Bernard

Paxson or Schaefering

LBs (7)

Gocong

Fujita

Jackson

Johnson

Maiava

Acho

Need a potential Starter if Fujita is suspended may need one anyway to cover injuries.

Secondary (9)

Haden

Ward

Patterson

Brown

Young

Skrine

Hagg

Ventrone

Wade

Special Teams (3)

Dawson

Hodges (if healthy)

Yount (LS)

1. Trent Richardson- clear leader- best player at his position in the draft- might be the best Runningback in the past four years. Clearly the best pick. I think Richardson and Weeden plus having picks the next couple years is better than RGIII. Just my opinion.

2. Mitchell Schwartz- The more you read the better you feel about the pick. The back issue is a concern. Would you be disappointed if he had a Ryan Tucker type career? Good pick

3. Brandon Weeden- When you get off if his age you see a good QB. You worry if he's prone to big mistakes- all those highlights you see alot of dumb interceptions. You can't argue that he's not a winner as he out dualed some of the best QBs. He'll have a good line and a great back.

4. Travis Benjamin- He's not a track guy playing football, he looks more comfortable than Josh Cribbs catching the ball and the speed is obviously there. He is a steal in the 4th round. Great pick.

5. Billy Winn- good player- regardless of where he was drafted I expect him to make the team and be a part of the rotation. Great pick.

6. Acho- Special teamer. Now and maybe for good. Solid pick.

7. Wade- I think he'll make the team as well. You wonder if he can play some FS you worry about his speed but the guy seems to have a nose for the ball. Solid pick.

8. Johnson- Special teamer- not seeing what others are seeing. Okay pick.

9. Ryan Miller- I'm seeing a guy out of the league in three years.

9. John Hughes- if he was a 5th or 6th round pick I'd be okay with it- we passed up too much talent- I can't believe he was probably Top 60-70 on the Browns board.

10. Brad Smelley- I would be surprised if he makes the team.

Thoughts on the draft.

#3 Richardson- Thought the trade was criticized too much. We had 13 picks- and we probably wouldn't want to carry 1/4 of the roster chalked full of rookies. Even if we consider the wasteland that is the practice squad. Richardson is going to make the Claiborne/Blackmon people on here happy. I see a shiftier Byner and dare I say a little Jim Brownesque power.

#22 Weeden- The draft hinges on Weeden obviously if he is good (Top 15 QB) for the Browns for the next 8 years we've hit a home run this weekend. I have faith that Richardson will be a star and a few others below will be productive pros for awhile. I'm not crazy about the #22 spot. The Pats wanted to trade up we couldn't move down with them? I'd feel better if he was picked lower and then the pick or picks we could have had with the trade could have been used to make the 3rd round pick a 2nd round pick (ton of great players drafted right after our 2nd round pick). Reiff was tempting at 22, but I Weeden would have been picked by a trade up team in the beginning part of round 2.

37- Schwartz was not on my radar but as I read more about him he's a better pick for the Browns than Glenn/Martin. I see Ryan Tucker type production. On a side note- I've said for two month the Steelers would take Adams.

3 round trade down- I was thinking great move as all the questionable picks were being taken from our original third round pick until our 87 pick (heck a punter went). But John Hughes! Worst pick- hope he proves me an idiot. I thought he was a product of his teammate who was drafted higher. I watched a few Bearcat games- His buddy stood out way more. Hughes was probably a 5th round pick based on his size. I wanted TY Hilton here- He's going to make Luck look good.

4- Benjamin- The guy has speed I remember the OSU game two years ago. Watching his highlights he looks like he has hands as well. Nice pick. He's a slot guy next to Little probably a future punt and kickoff guy as Cribbs winds down. Can't ask for more in round 4.

4- The LB- sorry missed most of draft from here- the guy looks like a solid developemental guy.

5- Miller- Colorado- Depth in the trenches always needed. I don't see him taking anyones spot so don't pencil him yet and maybe ever.

6- Acho- is exactly the type of guy we never seem to draft at this point- how many years do the Browns draft some obscure prospect that didn't produce at the coolege level but has size. Maybe he's an overachiever and maybe he overachieves for the Browns.

6- Winn was a great value pick- remember him playing well when I watched them against Va Tach a few years ago.

7-Wade- looks slow but was projected high (3rd round) and made some plays in college- maybe he has great instincts and watches film- couldserve him well as a depth guy in our secondary.

7- Smelly- Make the star happy. I like it.

We are coming together, but I have a feeling we will be asking for a pash rusher, #1 WR and probably a ball hawk safety in next seasons draft.