@earl34 said:

Mike Holmgren knows all of the above. Mike Holmgren says Brady Quinn ISN'T the guy. Enough said.

Link to the quote?

Don't have it eh?

I do know one thing, Holmgren IS on record as saying in response to another QB competition in camp this year; "They (The Browns) did that last year. And that didn't work out,"......."Somebody's got to play a full season. Not two games here, out two games, in three games. . . . It doesn't work," he said, according to the Cleveland newspaper. "So pick one, commit, coach him up, build confidence, make him better and then surround him with good people."

So, Holmgren himself says there won't be a QB comp. this year. But, then he brings in Wallace...who's a career backup...Well, if Holmgren stated he doesn't want a QB comp. then Wallace isn't coming here to start. He is a valuable backup and will serve the same role here.

Now, will Quinn be the starter or a vet come in? Looking at the last part of the quote straight from Holmgren...that quote describes EXACTLY what happened to Quinn last year. Getting pulled and put back in and jerked around by a new staff and had no help offensively.

I think Holmgren is doing what he's stated. He's going to surround Quinn with good people (better players and better management) and give him the full season to develop and "build confidence".

Let's see:

Horrible OL

No Running Game til late in the season

Rookie WR's

A crappy OC learning on the job

New O System....

Yep, let's blame the QB for all of our problems and never give him a full season to see what we drafted..... and bring in a 35 yr old who throws more INT's than DA and just lost his job to a sure fire future HOFer named ...uhhh...Matt Moore? Yeah, sounds like a good plan for our future to me!

This is why the Browns have sucked for so long.....

@atenears said:

Awesome, this Quinn kid is good ... and I bet he is sturdy and durable too! Why haven't we been playing him? He should have at least started this season or been handed the team to finish-out last season.

I wanna see more, I wanna see more ... please, please, he must have a ton of passing yards. Show us the passing yards and the win percentages!

(on edge of seat)

See Zippy, and you said this kid hasn't done anything.

(insert video clip on Lions game)

Well, it's good to see ya finally coming around Ate....

@atenears said:

Soooo, what you're saying is that you don't know if Brady Quinn is the answer, but you know MATT HASSELBACK isn't?

Yeah ... the controversy ends with the ousting of DA ... rrrright.

Where did I mention Quinn in my reply?

No, what I'm saying is.... come to grips with your love of Horseballs and invite him over for some quality one on one time before he's traded away or released.

Dude, seriously, DA is HORRIBLE. One of the worst QB's in the history of the NFL over the past two years. On a death spiral in terms of QB rating/efficiency. How do you not see it?

@atenears said:

Matt Hasselbeck (last 3 seasons stats)

754 of 1259 (59.8%) for 8,211yrds, 50-TD's and 39 INT's

Been sacked 84 times for -532 yrds, with 20 fumbles

RECORD: 16-21 ... Recent Receivers: T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Nate Burleson, John Carlson, Deion Brach

Derek Anderson (last 3 seasons stats)

521 of 992 (52.5%) for 6,290 yrds, 41-TD's and 37 INT's

Been sacked 39 times for -331 yrds, with 19 fumbles

RECORD: 16-16 ... Recent Receivers: Massaquoi, Mike Furrey, Evan Moore/Robert Royal.

If Holmgren thought he could work with Hasselbeck and these kind of numbers coming from Matt in his 7th, 8th & 9th seasons in the NFL, imagine his thought process of Anderson in his 2nd, 3rd & 4th seasons playing for multiple programs/coaches and weak offensive systems.

LOL, man do you love DAHorseballs! Keep a tight grip on em... It's the last time you'll get the chance. Bye bye DA....

well, maybe you can still admire him from afar on his new team as a #2 QB.

@drunkandstoopid said:

Gms Cmp Att Pct Yds Yds/Att TD Long INT Rating

QB #1 stats: 14 188 348 54.0 2381 6.8 12 65 20 63.2

QB #2 stats: 14 184 353 52.1 1902 5.4 10 59 9 66.8

Just for a little perspective, now the first 14 game stats of a guy I'm pretty sure the original poster has said doesn't belong in the NFL

QB #3 stats: 14 230 409 56.2 3024 7.3 25 NA 17 82.8

Link? Quote?

I'll take it you vote for # 2 as well.

Agree with original post, see my earlier Poll about the same topic

@lodilobo said:

DA just reinforced what I've known since the third game he started this season. He will never be anything more than what he is.....a guy lucky to be in the NFL, who is looking up at mediocrity. I really don't think another team would want him. Cut him immediately. I couldn't care less if Quinn is still on the team next season, but if you have to keep one of them....Quinn is the better qb. You would have to be an idiot blinded by hatred for Quinn or love for DA not to see that.

Agreed.... Quinn ain't great.... but DA is just absolutely historically AWFUL. Which his stats this year prove without a doubt.

@flugel said:

When you tell someone they don't have credibility - you better be accurate with what you say. I'm comparing Troy Smith to the Joe Theismann that broke into the NFL returning punts AFTER he played in the CFL. I didn't give EITHER guy the Heisman Trophy but they both impressed enough people to WIN it. There's similarity #1. I'm guessing they were playmakers for teams that won alot in the process. Similarity #2. Both guys came into the NFL with the same questions about their height; and the idea they might be better athletes than QBs. Similarity #3. You're not seeing parallels because 1) you don't WANT to and 2) you've covinced yourself that Brady won't be a REAL QB until after we fire Mangini and Daboll, which of course comes just 1 shiney season after we had to fire RAC and Chud.

From where I sit, it took a SMART guy like Gibbs to give Theismann his first REAL chance. He had alot of people like YOU saying he couldn't do it before opportunity #1 presented itself. So did Brian Sipe for that matter. Troy is also awaiting his first chance just like Theismann and Sipe did. Tell me why those are NOT similarities?

The GREATEST thing about bringing in Troy Smith to beat Brady Quinn head to head again is how little we'd have to pay him in comparison to how much cake we've wasted on 2 very overpaid QBs in 2009. Something tells me you are petrified of this challenge. Last time they went head to head, everybody was talking about how wonderful Troy looked while Brady Quinn "just need better surroundings." Let me ask this - what ranked teams did Mr Wonderful ever beat? He got a bunch fat stats against the 3 military academies and Michigan State. Every time he played an elite team we read or heard "Brady just needs more surrounding talent." At the end of his 3rd NFL season, all those with Brady Quinn pom poms are still saying: "Brady just needs more surrounding talent."

Just for the record, I'm not being a HOMER when I notice Quinn's last 2 starts in his 3rd NFL season carries a completion percentage of 32. Are you even WATCHING him play or do you just auto-defer to your old and new testaments of excuses? I'm saying this as a guy that WANTED him to succeed because I got so sick of DA regressing. The sad truth in the land of what have you done for me lately is DA is more accurate in each of his last 2 starts than Quinn was in his with the same group of guys. Since you brought up credibility are you going to acknowledge this? Now, you're stooping to comparing Quinn to a wide eyed rookie in another thread as opposed to calling a spade a spade. Not for nothing, but have you noticed how many seasons China Bones has finished out healthy after he was handed the starting job? Zero. Is this where we get back to blaming Steinbach for his alleged inability to block people? What will you guys still wearing knee pads for Quinn think of next?

ANYBODY that can't come to grips with the reality about Quinn stinking wants Mangini just as fired as they wanted RAC fired and they've told me ad nauseum that Steinbach can't block anybody. Sometimes it's JUST the QB. BB won with Tom Brady and was winless with Bledsoe. One guy made him a GREAT coach the other guy made him wonder if he was in trouble.

- Tom F.

Uh, settle down Bucky, when did I ever mention Quinn in my response to yours? I didn't. When did I mention Steinbach? If ever...

You said Troy Smith reminds you of Joe Theismann. Correct? Again, you are comparing a backup NFL QB to a HOF QB. THAT is an absolute joke of a comparison. Who compares a backup QB to a proven HOFer?

@dawgpound16 said:

Anderson I want as back-up, Quinn can pack his bags.

You've seen Anderson off the bench, you've seen Quinn off the bench, both did terrible but DA would to me be more reliable.

Look at these last 2 games.

Yep, his 41 rating this year sure convinced me as well...... ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? DA more "reliable"?

We won, and that's always a positive, but some possible big time players won't be there at 6 or 7. Who do you think will be there at that pick?

I'm thinking Joe Haden DB or the LB/DE from GTech Morgan...possibly even more youth at WR with Dez Bryant.

Well, for those who haven't figured it out yet, QB #1 is the "franchise" QB that many on here wanted to draft this year who ended up with the Jets, Mark Sanchez.

QB # 2 is of course Brady Quinn. I just thought it was interesting that MANY guys want or would want Sanchez and state he is a franchise QB and that Quinn is a bust. By looking at their stats, it's either, they are both franchise QB's or they both are busts. But, I never hear anyone call Sanchez a bust. Strange.

But, by the votes, it does appear that people would take Quinn now instead of Sanchez.

@flugel said:

Is my Troy Smith idea so bad we're willing to go this route instead? I really wish someone could archive Harbaugh's interview from the Mike and Mike ESPN show last year just days before Troy came down with an infection where he lost 23 pounds. He was talking like Troy Smith was the talk of their camp, which meant they were ecstatic they didn't have to race Flacco into the mix.

IMO, we'd lose more in discovering how much Campbell has in common with Quinn than giving the cost effective Troy Smith a chance to compete with whichever 40% passer we keep at a fraction of the contract demand.

We all claim we LOVE a Drew Brees, Tom Brady or Brian Sipe story because of how close that can hit home (via Big 10 or Cardiac Kid). Now here's a Big 10 player that BEAT his rival every from Michigan every damn time, crushed Quinn's ND team and best of all - he's FROM Cleveland. He replaced Archie Griffen as my alltime favorite player from OSU. If a lesser QB like Mike Tomczak can start for 2 different NFL playoff teams in Chicago & Pitt, then I'm pretty confident Troy Smith can be an upgrade for the 1st team giving him a legit chance.

We don't need to get rid of Quinn only to bring in his clone. Believe it or not, Troy Smith reminds me more of Joe Theismann than Drew Brees or Brian Sipe. He got sent off to Canada just like Warren Moon and Jeff Garcia did when people were too uncomfortable with his athleticism and refused to see accuracy, brains and leadership.

- Tom F.

Smith reminds you of Joe Theismann???? You lost ALL credibility right there. WOW!!! I know you love your Buckeyes, but c'mon now.... Troy Smith will be either a) a career backup in the NFL, or b ) a nice starting QB in the CFL. And Pryor will be joining him in the CFL in a year.

Gms Cmp Att Pct Yds Yds/Att TD Long INT Rating

QB #1 stats: 14 188 348 54.0 2381 6.8 12 65 20 63.2

QB #2 stats: 14 184 353 52.1 1902 5.4 10 59 9 66.8

Now, over the course of this season, many of you fawned over and wished we had QB #1. QB #1 is perceived to be a legit "franchise" QB and many have called QB # 2 a "bust".

Objectively speaking, there's not much of a difference in the two statistically. So why the different perceptions?

QB #2 has almost the same TD's in less min. overall, but QB #1 has twice as many INT's...but QB #1 is considered the "better" QB?

Note: Apologies if this Poll doesn't come out right...first time I've done a poll on here.

Poll results from the old forum

Both QB's have played 14 games in their careers.

• QB #1: 3 votes
• QB #2: 7 votes

Yep, good to see a backup QB can keep the ship afloat when the starter Quinn is out.

He sure wasn't as awful as he was in his previous starts in mid-season. Man he was historically horrid.

DA should find a job somewhere as a #2 next year for some team.

De La Salle would beat both....

So would Servite IMO

@cardiac-kid said:

My point was simply who was the better college QB.

Yep, Quinn was indeed the better QB. more yds, more tds, better college career numbers overall. now if ND only had a decent D

I'll take a new OC Santa.... PLEASE!!!!

@flipflop said:

chad henne looks a millions times better than quinn

as does their OC compared to Dumbell.

It's not Quinn or DA or anyone at QB...they all have been bad for one main reason/constant..... Brian Dumbell.

@cardiac-kid said:

He has a Heisman lol mm?

LOL, yeah and so was Eric Crouch....and Gino Torreta...and Charlie Ward...and Andre Ware....and Danny Wuerffel... and .... shall I continue?

Troy Smith is a potential starter..... in the CFL or UFL.

Take off the scarlet and grey glasses...yeesh.