@wrrebel said:

Wickerman.. did gruden have sex with ur wife or something?

Morris is terrible and was almost fired after year one and will be fired mid season..

Winslow is a fun player to have on ur team. He will gets lots of catches in ur blow out losses...

Looks like the homophobic troll is back.

Funny you deleted your post that I responded to earlier. Classic pussy move, looks like your a bigger tool than I thought.

If you had any brain power you could understand that Morris has some potential. The Bucs have pumped out young talented defensive coaches for years now.

Examples: Mike Tomlin, Herm Edwards, Lovie Smith, Rod marinelli, ectttt.

They did not want to lose Raheem to Denver, so they made him head coach.

He was never almost fired, the Cowher rumors were pure bullshit. Cowher said it himself.

It's going to be sweet justice if the "Raheem led" D puts a whooping on Delhomme and company.

I appreciate how others have brought logic into this thread, all you have brought is gay slurs and truly atrocious smack talk.

@ithika said:

I agree with a lot of your posts but I don't see Raheem being the answer in Tampa and being a great head coach, great DC yes. I have a lot of friends in FL who are Bucs fans I lived there for a long time and none of them have any faith in Morris. However like you they like what they're GM has done and the way they are drafting now. I think they have even further along to go than the Browns do in rebuilding and establishing an identity. My other problem is with with Freeman he has the raw tools and athleticism but is he the next Jason Campbell or Donovan Mcnabb? I'd say Campbell is his ceiling.

I will say you have the best pass catching TE in the NFL and you know that. I shed a tear when we let go of Winslow he is a complete bad ass and leaves it all on the field.

Raheem is converting alot of people now.

Denver had alot to do with why Raheem is the head coach for the Bucs.

Last year the Bucs fired Gruden, and the Broncos fired Shanahan. The Broncos interviewed Raheem Morris for a head coaching job. The Bucs had already lost Monte Kiffen to his son Lane. Raheem tutored under Monte for years, he proved to have potential as a eventual replacement for Monte. The Bucs did not want to lose another talented young coach: Mike Tomlin, Lovie Smith, Herm Edwards. So they gave Raheem the reins earlier than expected. The Bucs than made a mistake by hiring Jim Bates at D coordinator. After half a season of Bates trying to shove square pegs into round holes, Raheem demoted him. Raheem took over the play calling and the defense instantly responded.

The GM Mark Dominik has done a great job, the draft the last few years could bring the D back into shape. Talented young players now, that is always promising for the future of the defense. Raheem has got shit on for his bad PCs and mistakes on challenges. He looks more comfortable now, he has a role. He is the leader of the defense, and the players respect his knowledge of defense. Raheem has alot to prove still but he has this defense looking alot better. Considering what he started with, now 2 drafts in it looks like good times are ahead.

About Freeman, it is way to earlier to tell. I can say his ceiling is much higher than Campbell, this guy is a gamer. He is 6'6 250 and hes got a rocket arm and is more accurate than people know. Last year he threw alot of picks, but he was thrown into the fire. Only time will tell if he is successful.

Winslow is the man, and Freeman loves to throw it to him. The Bucs have suprisingly found some WR talent. Looking like the steal of the draft 4th Round pick Mike Williams has emerged as a starter. Look for Freeman to look for Winslow , Mike Williams, and Straughter for big plays down the field.

About K2's knees, it looks like Raheem is being extra careful with him. Pretty much 0 preseason time for K2, and that's fine. We all know what the guy can do.

@playerjdd said:

I love Tampa and visit often because my wifes family but your an idiot Wickerman. If you think a team carried a Coach to a SB then your more delusional than I thought. Tampa did didley until Guden came in or dont you remeber that. Needless to say Tampa is my other familys team so I will root for them. As far as fans go you will find its like society we have some good fans and we got some bad apples. The one thing that sets browns fans aside from Tampa is we still root for our team when they suck unlike alot of fairweather Bucs fans. Im out

Hey man, I'm sorry but your wrong. Please read my points and give logic a chance.

Dungy/Kiffen built a defense from the 90s peice by peice, with great draft picks and great coaching. This is now known as the Tampa 2. The defense became one of the best all time. The problem was Dungy could not do anything about the offense, the bucs would lose in the playoffs by joke scores. 12-6 ect......

This is why Dungy was canned and Gruden was brought in, we traded 2 firsts and 2 seconds for Gruden. Gruden came in and put vets at every position, which was fine. The defense the superbowl year allowed 12.6 points per game or something close to that. All Grudens O had to do was not suck, and it did suck for the first half of the year. Luckily the D was so good we still won games. Than Grudens O became average, just average enough for the D to win the superbowl. Remember gruden inherited Alstott on offense and he was instant touchdown inside the 5 yard line. Everyone of course loved Gruden after the superbowl and thought glory years were ahead, we were wrong.

Gruden never developed a Qb he went after an old vet every year, he never drafted defense, and he never trusted young players or gave them a chance. As montes defense started to get older Gruden didn't care, he drafted bad and signed old FAs, the team got older slower and weaker by year. Gruden than found his ass on the hot seat, he would search for a vet qb Griese/Garcia to save his ass every year. Finally he failed as the once elite D crashed down. The defensive line that once was the best in the league had such players as: an old chris hovan, a shitty ryan simms, and no name ends. Gruden finally got canned and he left the franchise in the shitter. The new regime has already done what he hasn't: Drafted Defense (DT'S Mccoy/Price this year, Roy Miller last year) , a QB of the future in Freeman , and we give young talent a chance to play: linebackers Geno Hayes/Quincy Black are on there way to being stars in this league. They never would have seen the field with Gruden.

Anyways, I used to think the same way as you. So I wanted to explain, now you know I'm not talking out of my ass.

The thing that will always stay with me about Gruden is how he NEVER developed or tried to develop a QB. He sits on espn and hangs off every good qbs sack and talks about how good they are when he could have drafted them but passed, because he would rather try to get Jake Plummer out of retirement. Aaron Rodgers is just one of many he passed on, but now he talks about him as if he always knew he had talent. We needed a QB the year of rodgers and we passed on him. Remember how late Rodgers went in the first, yeah Gruden didn't think to much of him when he was a rookie. The only rookie QB Gruden ever liked was Brady Quinn, and we still didn't draft him.

Edit: I forgot two things:

(1) You said before gruden got there the bucs did didley? Hmm Yeah all they did was create one of the best defenses of all time. Without that D Gruden does not win a superbowl.

(2) I don't know if your calling me a fair weather fan, but I am as loyal as it gets, I never stop supporting my teams.

@hoorta said:

Sorry about the less than courteous welcome. Hey, Cleveland's hosting the International Gay games- so take that W.

Tampa's a great city- been there many times, as my father in law used to live on the other side of the Bay in Indian Shores. One of the premier steak joints in the country in Bern's. The wife's uncle still lives there, and I'd be going down for the game- IF it wasn't the first game of the season. I freaking HATE hot weather, and the last Browns game I attended @ Raymond James- in OCTOBER was the hottest football game I've ever been at- by a country mile. Like 97 degrees, with temperatures on the field easily in the 100+ range. Had sweat pouring off me just sitting in the stands.

So that said, yeah, your starting CB is out- but you definitely have "home field" advantage- as the Bucs players are acclimated to that brutal heat- and the Browns aren't. Shawn Rodgers- assuming he plays- should be able to sweat out at least 20 pounds of blubber. He might even melt.

Should be a very interesting game that is for sure, yes you are right about Rodgers

I do not live in Tampa but I have visited many times, I can imagine how hot it would be. I never have visited during football season, so I have never seen the Bucs at Ray Jay.

Anyways it should be a great game, I can't wait.

Talking smack to you is calling someone gay?

Damn your one sad sack of shit.

You are the worst smack talker ever.

I seriously thought you were just being a complete tool as a joke, I now see you are actually a complete tool.

Edit: I see you deleted the post I was responding to

@wrrebel said:

I don't think you really know much about football. I mean do u and ur boyfriend even have season tickets to the bucs?

Your intial post was pathetic. Followed up by a bunch of non sence.. gruden is a good coach and will coach again and be successful.

Didn't tony dungy have the same players u mentioned? How did that work out? Did he win a super bowl with them?

Ur a total fag, coming in here crying cause ur a sensitve hoto..

Stay gay buddy

Wow you are just a troll I get it now.

A homophobic troll.

I said that all grudens offense had to do was not suck ass and they won the superbowl. Dungys offense DID suck ass.

How did gruden do with full control of the draft and FA after the superbowl? O ya his team went to shit and he got fired. Yup, great coach.

You talk about others being gay?

You really love to swing off Grudens sack.

@brownindian said:

That is true, Monte Kiffins defense was very good. Too bad he is not with the Bucs anymore.

The coach now Raheem Morris was a coach under monte for many years.

This is why denver tryed to steal him last year, this is why he was made our head coach.

We drafted 2 DTS with our first 2 picks, Raheem knows that for Montes D to work you need to be strong up the middle.

@wrrebel said:

Are u serious, gruden was great for the raiders.. he also took and won a super bowl for the bucs...

Casual fan? Ur right I don't know every raven, steeler and bengal fan so u have me on that one..

What I do is gruden was the best coach the bucs ever had.. also I know that if I wouldn't be waiving thw white flag if one cb was out. Its like ur making an excuse for them losing already...

White flag? I said it is a big advantage and I also said no excuses.

Try not making up shit, I clearly said it is an advantage for the browns. Not once did I say we would lose, I actually think we will win it.

Ya gruden was great in Oakland because he had his QB Rich Gannon, he spent every year in tampa trying to find a Rich Gannon.

Lets see took them to superbowl? Really? The defense allowed something disgusting like 12.6 points allowed per game.

The defense won that superbowl lynch/sabb/brooks/barber won that superbowl.

Gruden is a tool he loves qbs but he never could develop his own. He talks about how he loves rodgers now, when we had no qb he passed on rogers because he hates young qbs. Once a franchise takes a chance and develops the young QB than he loves that QB, it's a joke.

We are rebuilding because he did not draft defense and he did not develop a quarterback of the future. Remember when he tried to get Jake Plummer out of retirement?

Anyone who thinks that Gruden won the superbowl because he's such a good coach is a complete dumbass. The defense was one of the best of all time. The offense just had to not suck ass to win. I give gruden props for his motivational tactics but hes got a massive ego. The guy left our franchise with 0 talent on the defensive line. Thank god this new regime is drafting defense and gave us a quarterback of the future.

@daddybull1 said:

TheWickerMan quote:" I have heard every single NFL fan tell me that "the Cleveland Browns Fans are stupid and all they do is talk shit" ".....

Dude my props go out to you.. How did you manage to talk to every single NFL fan?????? Do you know them personally???? Have you also spoken to every married NFL fan.... you must have more friends than pimples on your ass.....

Jump off that Tampa bandwagon and hop on the Steelers bandwagon---- trust me, you would fit in perfectly... They tend to stretch the truth a mite also...

Peace

T.Dawg

Every single NFL fan that I have talked to has told me that Cleveland fans are xxxxing stupid. This proves that atleast some are.

T-Dawg your so cool bra, o man i wish I was you.

Peace

B.Dawg

@wrrebel said:

Geez... some people are so sensitive...

Sorry wickerman I don't have many homo sexual friends so I don't know how to act I guess.

Tampa is dumb for getting rid of gruden.

Gruden is the best

Gruden

He left our team with no talent, no qbs, and no heart. He left us with nothing hence the rebuilding phase.

I can see how a casual fan would think that his mean grimice and his hot head related to good coaching.

We actually have youth at QB now and we don't have a grizzled old shitty slow peice of shit QB every year. It is refreshing.

@clevelandmilidh said:

Lol everytime an opposing fan stop's in this is how the thread begins......... I think somebody calls WRREBEL an asshole next.

Anyway one guy isn't going to shut down the passing game, we have 3 top notch CB's and can't seem to stop anybody....it is preseason though, will see how Josh Freeman does.

Your right, but he would help alot. It is an advatange to the Browns for him to be out.

About Freeman, I hope he's not rusty. He broke his thumb in the first series of preseason week 2, hopefully he is ready for week one.

I'm looking forward to this game alot, I love football. This should be a good game, lets hope both teams have 0 injuries.

Sorry I'm not from Tampa.

Brokeback Tampa? Really?

Is this Cleveland making fun of another city?

I have heard every single NFL fan tell me that "Cleveland Brown fans are stupid and all they do is talk shit"

I found myself telling those people to shut the xxxx up because they were mostly Steeler/Bengal fans.

Maybe they were right?

The whole gay thing is childish, Is Tampa known as a big homosexual city? That would be news to me.

Anyways I was just dropping in to let you guys know our top corner is suspended, no excuses.

To the cleveland fans that are not homophobic assholes: Lets have a good opening game and hopefully no injuries.

@clevelandwantsplayoffs said:

He has a passer rating of over a 100 this pre-season, yes its pre-season but he has looked really sharp.

and even if your best corner was in, that still wouldn't make us one dimensional.

Its the NFL!

Yes it is the NFL, and defenses play VANILLA in the preseason.

Delhomme needs to prove it in the regular season.

The fact our best corner is out is a massive advantage to you.

The guy is already on his way to be an elite corner in his third year.

Trust me, Day light comes and I gotta Delhomme is happy about Talib not playing.

@wrrebel said:

Wickerman do u find it hard to hide the fact that ur gay?

......I see you have plenty of trouble hiding that your a complete tool

@massbrownsfan said:

They will Win Dont worry Who ever you are lol

I am a bucs fan, so i know Delhomme well.

He used to be the "Buc Killer" ripping us up every game. He has great knowledge of the tampa 2.

Good thing the Raheem Morris is known as the Tampa 2.1 he has alot of new wrinkles in it, also Delhommes play has been bad recently.

With Talib able to shut down his man the Browns would have to run the ball to win this game, now they should be able to throw and run.

Goodell just helped you guys out big time for week 1.

http://www.buccaneers.com/news/article-1/T...fa-960916779040

Talib already a great talent at CB in his third year won't be playing week one.

Delhomme has experience vs the tampa 2 and has ripped up the bucs in past years. Now the bucs will play him without their best cornerback.

Goodell gave 0 notice for this and the bucs will have to thrust a not nfl ready rookie or second year player into the starting line up.

So Browns fans be excited! You should rip up the bucs through the air!

Will you win?................. I'm not sure, it is the browns