FYI, I spoke to a ticket sales rep in Barea who said single game seats go on sale "in a couple of weeks." He wouldn't give me a firm date, but that's pretty much in line with last season when tickets went on sale August 12.

Hey all, sorry to interrupt. Couldn't find this info online and thought this would be the best place to go. Anybody know when single game tickets are available? Possible that I missed it already.

Glad to see so many familiar faces are still here. Go Browns!

The Browns have hired former UMiami OC and Steelers QB coach Mark Whipple to serve as QB coach. Schefter thinks this means there wont be a OC for now. We also hired Bill Davis to be LB coach. He has experience with the 3-4 and 4-3, and seems to have used both as a DC.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...veland-in-2010/

King: Quinn won't be back in Cleveland in 2010

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on October 17, 2009 5:37 PM ET

At halftime of today's Notre Dame-USC game, Mike Florio, Peter King, and Jimmy Roberts waxed philosophic about the latest NFL news in advance of this week's trading deadline.

One of the topics was former Golden Domer Brady Quinn, who seems to want out of Cleveland, but looks unlikely to be dealt this week because of his affordable salary.

But King doesn't think the Browns will keep the local favorite for long.

"Whether [Quinn] goes or not [in the next week], he will not be on the Browns in 2010," King said. "I believe they've had enough of Brady Quinn -- Eric Mangini and G.M. George Kokinis, the general manager."

Wow.

This statement did not appear to be made lightly. Even someone without the rolodex of King could look at the situation in Cleveland, and make some judgements regarding Quinn's future there.

The Browns only gave Quinn two and a half games before putting Derek Anderson back in the lineup. Even if they didn't like what they saw, giving him the hook so quickly is not something you do with a true "quarterback of the future."

King's comment makes us wonder when and where we'll see Quinn again, no matter how much the Browns offense struggles with Derek Anderson in the lineup

@budcarson said:

They would never come out and say it, but I wouldn't be shocked if they actually saw quinn as the better qb, but only incrementally so, and were benching him for contract/salary cap purposes. i'm not sure how communicative mangini is with his players, but i feel like just ignoring that as your motivation in talks with the player could create tension and ill will. if that's the case i'd be upfront enough to say look, we think there's a chance you might work out here, but since we havent seen enough for us to be sure of that, we can't play you 70% of the time this year. that incentive was built into the deal so that you'd be fairly rewarded if you turned out to be THE guy, which you haven't, yet. you might, and if you do, we'll revisit the contract terms, do an extension, whatever your play warrants. no hard feelings, but this is our right from a business perspective, and the reason that the escalator terms are put into the deal in the first place, from the team's point of view.

Exactly.

Also, we went over this a bit in the offseason and the point was raised that he wouldve had a hard time bringing in his old players if he was such a miserable guy to play for.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ay-from-browns/

Sources: Agents steering players away from Browns

Posted by Mike Florio on September 16, 2009 7:28 PM ET

Though the Cleveland Browns were able to lure to town today a couple of players with connections to coach Eric Mangini (safety Ray Ventrone and guard Billy Yates), multiple sources have told us that some agents plan to steer their clients away from the Browns.

Right or wrong, there's a sense of discontent regarding the new regime in Cleveland, where coach Eric Mangini and G.M. George Kokinis are running the show, with Mangini serving essentially as the man in charge.

A variety of issues have contributed to the situation, and we're in the process of tracking down specific details regarding some of the potential problem areas.

In the offseason, feathers were ruffled when Mangini took first-year players on a ten-hour bus ride to Hartford, Connecticut to work a youth football camp. Also, the lingering contractual impasse regarding receiver Josh Cribbs could be creating trust issues, given Cribbs' strong belief that owner Randy Lerner promised to re-work Cribbs' below-market deal,and the fact that Mangini/Kokinis have denied the allegation.

The Cribbs conundrum reminds many of the disputes that arose when Mangini coached the Jets, including guard Pete Kendall, receiver Laveranues Coles, and tight end Chris Baker. All claimed that promises had been made regarding their contracts, and that the promises had been broken.

As one source explained it, the Browns likely will be required to overpay free agents in the offseason. If the money that Cleveland is offering matches the money on the table from another team, the thinking is that the players will be far more inclined to sign with the team not named the Browns.

He was drafted 2 years ago 58th overall out of Hawaii, and IIRC he had some fans here. I think he had a muscle tear going into the draft. Anybody know if he's healthy?

I feel like someone shouldve posted this by now. If they did, feel free to delete it. I have no commentary to add to this post. I think it speaks for itself:

Bernie:

"I went to Mr. (Al) Lerner and Carmen Policy in 1998 and told them when they were talking about who should be the head coach of the new franchise, that they should hire Belichick. They laughed at me. They ridiculed me," Kosar said

Stallworth too (I assume)

I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.

Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).

@choco said:

im not tryin to insult ya tup.....just wasn't sure if you understood opinion from fact.

my retort was to illustrate where you are going wrong...

you say...

" Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs)."

if this is lerner position, as you say, then why on gods green earth are you assuming cribbs is the one being truthful. if lerner does not get involved in contracts, why would cribbs call him DIRECTLY? i haven't found anything stating that lerner has ever weighed in on contract negotiations.....it may indeed exist, but i just haven't saw it. considering cribbs has a new greedy agent, i have a hard time believe his camp at all.

somone aint stirrin the kool-aide.....

I dont think Cribbs is claiming that he called Lerner, he says Lerner called him. And I've discussed why I believe Cribbs over Lerner several times, meaning that I have explained why I hold the opinion that I do. In fact, I have stated that it is possible that Cribbs is lying. Clearly I'm not claiming fact where there is none.

As for Lerner's claim that he never weighs in on contracts, I believe him in general. But there was no front office for several weeks and there were players looking for assurances that they wouldnt be forgotten. It would surprise me if Lerner just stonewalled everyone until Mankok was in place.

What I took to be a wasted attempt at an insult was "we get it, and still don't care". Did that have anything to do with the thread? No, it was just a strange shot at me. I still don't know why you waste your time on things you dont care about. Are you punishing yourself?

@oldcrow1945 said:

6.77 million over 7 years for a guy that plays defensively on kickoffs, punts and returns punts. He's making almost a mil a year for playing about 10 to 12 plays a week. I sure wish I could get such disrespect.

Another case of a pro athlete needing a reality check.

It disgust me.

Another case of a rich owner refusing to pay the guys that are bringing in the money for him, and doing it because he has all the power in a NFL system that lets players get cut anytime but gives them almost no recourse for seeing upside if they improve.

I'm not disgusted, I just wish they would deal with each other more honestly.

If you don't care, there is no need to respond.

All of my posts are my opinion. That should go without saying. I dont know any of these people personally, and I'm not omniscient. Every article or source or assumption I am using can be found in this thread. I'm not going to footnote my posts to avoid having to explain that over and over again. If you want to know where I got something, ask or look yourself. If you have an opinion on Cribbs, post it. If you're just looking to criticize my posting style, you're wasting your time and mine.

You just went out of your way to post on a football thread to what, insult a poster? I don't get it, really.

@ytownbrownsbacker said:

I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.

The Cribbs situation will get ironed out and everyone will be happy. He signed for 6 years with $2 million up front, with his salaries he has made over $3.2 million in the two years. That isn't working for free or being underpaid. Now if he has to play out the contract then it is a crime, but as of now he hasn't been mistreated, especially if he gets a new contract done this year.

But to mention anything about Mangini and him trying to maintain his tough guy rep is pure bullshit. How does Mangini get dragged into this? He isn't the owner or GM and he hasn't said shit about anything. Not a very credible statement if you wantyour argument to be taken serious.

I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).

Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.

@hammertime said:

Hey tupa i thought i would chime in about 3 pages later.

Is it now that lerner is just denying contract 'gaurantee's' over the phone with JC?

You mentioned that JC is not mentaly Retarded, link? J/K, although his intelligence has been questioned, sorry no links on that.

I really want this guy on the roster come gm 1, i just hope this agent isn't filling his head with granduer. You have taken quite a stand for this guy and he is what we want from all Browns except for this latest $$$$ BS.

Welcome back.

Lerner told OBR that he has never spoken with Cribbs over the phone regarding his contract at all.

If this was out of the blue, I would probably be much more hesitant to side with Cribbs on this. But there have been consistent small comments about a coming reworking of his deal and now we are told that Savage and Crennel definitely made him promises.

I wouldnt want to overpay for any player. But Cribbs is underpaid, was promised better, and I can't find a way to think management is treating him fairly unless I believe that he is a bold faced liar. Maybe he is. I admit, I dont know. But it would really surprise me. He at least deserves to be treated respectfully.

@nebbrownsfan said:

I don't need to find a new place to play. I am discussing things, am I not? I'm just not making claims to know what a player wants or who said what, based on reports by "sources". I also disagree when you use phrases like "give the Browns a free year" or "paid to play other positions". Those are bullshit phrases. He's paid to be a Cleveland Brown, he's paid the amount HE agreed to. He needs to prove to the current regime his value IF he plays an expanded role, then he would have a little more leverage to ask for a redo.

As far as all the accusations flying about, I have no idea who is right and who isn't. But I'm not going to be quick to jump on management just because a player and his new agent say its so, an agent that hasn't made any real money by representing Josh to this point. So forgive me if I see a somewhat greedy agent looking to get paid and giving bad advice to his client. But, I could be wrong, I just don't know.

You have your stance, I have mine. Its why this forum exists. Difference being, I am not making statements purporting to know who wants what and who said what. And I don't use reports from "sources" as my gospel to stand by.

What would you like me to base statements on? It's the best information we have, and it is consistent with all of the information we have. I'm not going to bother arguing about what is or isnt a valid basis of information, this is a thread about Josh Cribbs' contract situation. To make it easier for you, and to help you avoid being distracted by the temptation to criticize the way I phrase my post, here is exactly what I would like to talk about:

IF Cribbs will hold out or demand a trade unless he gets incentives for offensive participation, what do you think we should do?

IF he would do the same unless we promise to move forward with talks for a new contract to be signed sometime this year, what should we do?

IF he wants to double his last contract exactly, what should we do?

IF he wants Hester's deal, what should we do?

Does your answer to any of the above change if Lerner promised him a change in contract this offseason? John Taylor presents this as fact, but since it's just from "sources" I guess I have to ask, does you answer change if Cribbs received promises from Savage and Crennel for a new deal?

I would give certainly come to the table in good faith regardless of what Lerner said. I think he's earned that much, especially since I'm assuming Savage promised it to him.

I would also be willing to give him a deal for more incentives.

If he wants more guaranteed money, I would tell him we will revisit the issue midseason and act in good faith.

If he wants Hester's deal, I tell him to sit down and shut up.

I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.

@dan-in-florida said:

Time for a name change -

Old: We need Tom Tupa

New: We need Josh Cribbs

How about We need Good Players? Or We need to not dick over guys that play hard for us?

Neb, you should find a new place to play if you dont like discussions where we dont know exactly what is going on. I hate to break the news to you, but we wont have players here throughout the year telling us what goes on behind closed doors. The best information we have is his agent who says they want market value and not what Hester got, and John Taylor who says he would settle for a bunch of offensive incentives. Maybe he wants more. I'm focusing on the incentives argument because I'm on record here saying that I dont think we should give him a bunch of new guaranteed money, but that it makes perfect sense to give him incentives for taking on an expanded role, especially since he is going into his second season since being promised an improved deal. Does anyone think some incentives would be a bad deal? That's what I'm arguing for.

I think that the right thing to do is reward the people that played hard for you and were productive. I think the right thing to do is to honor promises that are made to players. I think the right thing to do is to at least enter good faith negotiations with someone who you want to take on a bigger role. I wish Cribbs wouldnt take the stance he is, but I'm not that upset considering the fact that he sat quietly all last year when mgmt promised him new talks and on the fact that all he is asking for is TALKS. What part of this do you disagree with? No one in this room would pass up the opportunity to make millions if they thought the opportunity might pass them by. This isnt a guy that is set for life. Regardless of what you may think, $3 million isnt the kind of money that makes you a rich retiree at 30. I'm not saying he's poor, but he isnt Ocho Cinco, he's not looking for ego money, this is money that makes a real difference to the way he will be able to live.

@nebbrownsfan said:

I'm just saying a possibility that was mentioned elsewhere. A hell of a lot better than your misstatement claiming Lerner denied ever talking to him on the phone.

Except that mine was a mistake, now corrected, and yours is a farfetched opinion that youre sticking to. Congrats, you nailed me.

@nebbrownsfan said:

But he hasn't been more involved yet, so his claim of outperforming his contract doesn't hold water in respect to an EXPECTED expanded role. He had a great 2007, an average 2008.

I think he obviously outperformed his contract just with his special teams, but that isnt the point. You want him to give the Browns a year for free. That makes no sense. All I'm saying (and, according to the as yet unrefuted Taylor report, all Cribbs is saying) is that they should add incentives to his contract that pay him IF he is more involved. At this point, we're just rehashing the whole thread.