Baker Mayfield
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Soooooooo, I'm obviously not a doctor, but I did totally tear my labrum and had the surgery. First off, the surgery wasn't bad, but the rehab was miserable. It felt like my shoulder would never be ok and it took months to get back to healthy. If he has a labrum surgery, he's gone. That simple.
Case Keenum cannot win enough games to get us into the playoffs, that's the bottom line in my head. We absolutely dominated the Broncos and won by 3 effing points. That's not good enough. We can talk all day about how great our running game is but unless we get a vertical strike threat, we're toast. Anthony Schwartz needs to go away. If I see him stop his route one more time and try to catch the ball 5 seconds before he should...I'll spontaneously combust.
The Cardinals showed teams how to beat us. The Broncos didn't even try to replicate that effort and nobody knows why. The Steelers definitely will try and shut down the run and regardless of what the stats say, I don't see us running the ball against the Steelers right away. Maybe after we establish the pass, but not right away. They're going to have 472 people on the line.
Anthony Schwartz needs to go away. If I see him stop his route one more time and try to catch the ball 5 seconds before he should...I'll spontaneously combust.
Literal lol
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Oh stop it, I've agreed with you on tons of things you silly goose! ?
And yet another?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Oh stop it, I've agreed with you on tons of things you silly goose! ?
You call your friend an asshole this instant!
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"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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Oy vey....
Me and Z have been going at it.. Mayfield would want to play with a broken left arm, just put it in a cast, I'll be fine..... Sorry Baker... you playing against the Steelers is a bbbbbbaaaaaddddd idea. Take another week off to get ready for the Bengals. Case can handle those pesky Squealers for you.
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If reapir by scope is possible then, es...
But reason behind my comment was Dutch actually agreeing with a comment I made...
Scoping the shoulder might clean up some of the junk- but my research told me with a completely torn labrum- you have to do surgery to reattach it to the bone.. 4 weeks healing time, minimum... That, and another 4-6 weeks of rehab to regain strength in the affected arm.
LOL, Zombo told me Baker isn't my wife- true dat. But when Sue busted her humeral head in a ski accident- once she got her arm out of a sling, she couldn't even lift the affected arm to shoulder height.
LOL, Zombo told me Baker isn't my wife- true dat. But when Sue busted her humeral head in a ski accident- once she got her arm out of a sling, she couldn't even lift the affected arm to shoulder height.
when I had a rotator cuff completely popped apart, after surgery, my arm hardly worked much at all. ya end up doing "itsy bitsy spider crawls up the wall" (cute little physical therapist gal laughed at the look on my face when she explained it to me) exercises to work to get the ability to lift your arm again. As long as they can win with Keenum, Baker should stay on the bench. Nick Mullens still hasn't played much in the NFL. He just doesn't have the arm to make all the throws effectively. If Baker has to have surgery sooner rather than later... I can see signing Cam Newton to have a legit backup for the rest of the season.
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Soooooooo, I'm obviously not a doctor, but I did totally tear my labrum and had the surgery. First off, the surgery wasn't bad, but the rehab was miserable. It felt like my shoulder would never be ok and it took months to get back to healthy. If he has a labrum surgery, he's gone. That simple.
Case Keenum cannot win enough games to get us into the playoffs, that's the bottom line in my head. We absolutely dominated the Broncos and won by 3 effing points. That's not good enough. We can talk all day about how great our running game is but unless we get a vertical strike threat, we're toast. Anthony Schwartz needs to go away. If I see him stop his route one more time and try to catch the ball 5 seconds before he should...I'll spontaneously combust.
The Cardinals showed teams how to beat us. The Broncos didn't even try to replicate that effort and nobody knows why. The Steelers definitely will try and shut down the run and regardless of what the stats say, I don't see us running the ball against the Steelers right away. Maybe after we establish the pass, but not right away. They're going to have 472 people on the line.
The Cardinals showed teams how to beat us. The Broncos didn't even try to replicate that effort and nobody knows why. The Steelers definitely will try and shut down the run and regardless of what the stats say, I don't see us running the ball against the Steelers right away. Maybe after we establish the pass, but not right away. They're going to have 472 people on the line.
I mean, The Broncos before last week had the 6th? 7th? 8th? (something like that) rush defense and played the offense this way. We still ran it down their throats with a 3rd string (by definition, anyway) RB and a back-up tackle. Point is, this run game reminds me A LOT of Arian Foster Texans years. You know what the hell was coming, but they were simply too good to be stopped. The Steelers coming into this game are 20th or so in rush defense.
Coming into the game, I'm magnitudes more concerned about the defense's inability to get off the field on 3rd down. The Steelers set themselves up often to be in 3rd in manageable, which for some dumb reason is the defense's Achilles heal. I get a bad feeling it's gonna be a lot (let's be honest, after celebrating Halloween Saturday night slightly hungover) sighs on 3rd down conversations by Pittsburgh.
The cardinals game was an anomaly in many different ways, that game was set up to lose really. A red hot team against an obviously hurt QB, two back-up tackles, and two banged up RBs.
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I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
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The Cardinals showed teams how to beat us. The Broncos didn't even try to replicate that effort and nobody knows why. The Steelers definitely will try and shut down the run and regardless of what the stats say, I don't see us running the ball against the Steelers right away. Maybe after we establish the pass, but not right away. They're going to have 472 people on the line.
I mean, The Broncos before last week had the 6th? 7th? 8th? (something like that) rush defense and played the offense this way. We still ran it down their throats with a 3rd string (by definition, anyway) RB and a back-up tackle. Point is, this run game reminds me A LOT of Arian Foster Texans years. You know what the hell was coming, but they were simply too good to be stopped. The Steelers coming into this game are 20th or so in rush defense.
Coming into the game, I'm magnitudes more concerned about the defense's inability to get off the field on 3rd down. The Steelers set themselves up often to be in 3rd in manageable, which for some dumb reason is the defense's Achilles heal. I get a bad feeling it's gonna be a lot (let's be honest, after celebrating Halloween Saturday night slightly hungover) sighs on 3rd down conversations by Pittsburgh.
The cardinals game was an anomaly in many different ways, that game was set up to lose really. A red hot team against an obviously hurt QB, two back-up tackles, and two banged up RBs.
The cardinals game was an anomaly in many different ways, that game was set up to lose really. A red hot team against an obviously hurt QB, two back-up tackles, and two banged up RBs.
The Browns can pretty much bet that the Steelers will "stack the box".... the Broncos tried to stuff the run to start the game like other teams, but the Browns came out throwing the ball first drive. First play of the game, I believe. It goes back, again, to Bernie Kosar loving to throw a long throw on the first play once in a while, just to get into the defense's heads. I still think Stef has run too often on first down.
The "we will run on them..." thing gets to a point where they know you want to establish the run, so they work to stop the run. Then they can pick their blitzes on second and/or third down and long hopefully. It seems that Wills at LT is a key to the game. Another is, Hance really played well at RT. Be unpredictable. ON defense, stop with the loose zone. It loses football games all too often against excellent wr's and good quarterbacks.
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My feeling is if we are looking at Baker long term, we sit him for a while. If not and don't care if he gets fucked up, play him.
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I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
They're both on IR.
Alualu fractured his ankle on 9/19. Tuitt has an as-yet-undisclosed knee injury from training camp that teams don't have to reveal if on IR.. but he's played zero 2021 snaps.
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I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
right where i thought Stef called solid play calls to DJ's vision & best part of his game with Denver. Between the tackles. I can't recall many runs DJ stretched outside the T.. Alualu & Tuitt are huge loses.. meaning Buggs & Wormley are up..
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I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
right where i thought Stef called solid play calls to DJ's vision & best part of his game with Denver. Between the tackles. I can't recall many runs DJ stretched outside the T.. Alualu & Tuitt are huge loses.. meaning Buggs & Wormley are up..
right where i thought Stef called solid play calls to DJ's vision & a best part of his game with Denver. Between the tackles. I can't recall many runs DJ stretched outside the T.. Alualu & Tuitt are huge loses.. meaning Buggs & Wormley are up..
Just need to get the linebackers to over or under pursue laterally once or twice to really make the running game hum.
As for Baker, rest until we leave the home stand. We can win a war of attrition similar to how it was against Denver. The key is avoiding turnovers, something injured Baker has struggled with. Run the ball, win the turnover margin and you've got your George W.
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Just a rule of thumb is that a starter at any position is better at 80 or 90% than the backup. If that wasn't the case the backup would be starting somewhere. That being said you have to weigh the risk reward on making the fracture worse and how a brace or a cast could protect it.. Seems pretty close to the joint and the Steelers are dirty stinking bastards and I don't doubt the Tomlin would have his thugs try to injure the shoulder.
I realize this is kind of a wishy-washy answer but I would lean toward Baker especially if Conklin is back up to speed and Johnson can do a Hunt impression
WSS
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Zombo said:
That's ridiculous re Baker.
He makes us 7 points better by playing. Just because we beat Denver doesn't mean we keep pressing our luck with the backup, get our leader back on the field.
This is a division game for chrissakes, he can rest his arm after puts down that Super Bowl trophy.
Z
Z, a healthy Baker makes us 7 points better. He's not healthy. Notice the line started going down when the extent of his injury came out? Even with our QB situation up in the air, (meaning there's a distinct possibility Keenum plays) we're still favored against the Steelers. Yeah, that backup who took the Vikings to the playoffs. So chill out already.
I 100% agree with Steve. Given the opportunity, I fully expect one of the Steelers to "accidentally on purpose" do a Turkey Jones number on Mayfield's injured shoulder. Season over.
I'll be at the game, (The Curse won't be) should Baker play (the Medical Staff won't let him unless they deem it safe) expecting the worst (like two fumbles and an interception against the Cardinals) and hope for the best.
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Zombo said:
That's ridiculous re Baker.
He makes us 7 points better by playing. Just because we beat Denver doesn't mean we keep pressing our luck with the backup, get our leader back on the field.
This is a division game for chrissakes, he can rest his arm after puts down that Super Bowl trophy.
Z
Yeah, man. Heard the "all hands on deck" thing for Denver and that worked out pretty well.
Pittsburgh and Denver have some glaring similarities- weaker on the IDL and questionable Oline play. QB's who can't drive the ball downfield and concerns at corner. All areas the Browns are clearly above Pittsburgh when we're healthy.
If Baker could suffer long(er) term injury by the couple shots he would/will assuredly take in this game, then I like my chances of going without him.
His footwork alone before the injury went from concerning to serious, and with it more turnovers. That's enough justification for Case in a game of "who blinks first". Mayfield was so concerned about taking further shots his decision making and delivery went to hell.
And Steve is agreeing with you so now I know I'm in the right camp here.
I'll take our running game, trench play and home crowd vs the Steelers and feel pretty ok about it.
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Zombo said:
As for this game ... does a football game ever really turn out like you imagine it in your head?
Well, not to jinx anything, but I'm looking at my 4th year straight of turning a profit off betting spreads. Including going 6-10 on my underdog picks.
So.... yeah?
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Zombo said:
As for the Denver game and "and all hands on deck" ... guys like Landry, Wills and OBJ played and gutted it out, and that 3 point win could easily go south without them ... especially Wills.
As for this game ... does a football game ever really turn out like you imagine it in your head? Just because you feel the running game, trench play and home field should be enough ... we are going against one of the best coaches in football, the Steelers are not just going to play into our strengths and go home. We'll need some big plays and Baker provides them.
He has one game with three turnovers and now you are scared and don't remember who he is ... He was playing that game with two completely inexperienced backup tackles, a fresh injury, without Chubb and Landry and against the top team in the NFL. But THAT'S the performance you want to define him by?
If Case's career as a Brown is one start and one win ... that is ideal.
Z
Don’t think for one second that Ben and Tomlin don’t have this one circled too. This is going to be a rough game.
Im sure the Steelers watched Jed Wills hobble around all night. That factor alone against Steeler edge pressure that is a turnover waiting to happen.
I think there are very few teams in this league where we can win a game comfortably we don’t have consistent QB play and our Def. Coordinator and scheme who knows from week to week.
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Zombo said:
The spread is different than HOW a game turns out, i.e. the Browns will win a low scoring game by dominating the trenches. Coach Tomlin didn't just fall off the turnip truck, the Steelers are going to hit us with a smart shot. It could be a shootout, it cold be a blowout ... but the chances of it turning out just like the Broncos game is unlikely because the Steelers know how to watch tape and adjust, we need all of our weapons at our disposal, including our most important one.
By the way, Baker practiced with the starters today and Case backed him up.
Z
Steeler's "smart shot"? Yeah- like I said, may as well paint a target on Baker's LEFT shoulder. Line up TJ on the left side and clobber him on that left arm. Eat your Wheaties before the game Wills.
And, I'll just have to disagree with you- I'm 100% of the opinion that injury is affecting his play. (Hmmm... it was affecting his sleep, the pain was so severe.) I'll trust Tia's expertise that his footwork has gone to hell post injury, and it sure as hell even to my untrained eye- it's affecting his accuracy.
Stefanski is going to have to decide if an 80% Mayfield is better than a 100% Keenum.
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