Baker Mayfield
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The Cardinals showed teams how to beat us. The Broncos didn't even try to replicate that effort and nobody knows why. The Steelers definitely will try and shut down the run and regardless of what the stats say, I don't see us running the ball against the Steelers right away. Maybe after we establish the pass, but not right away. They're going to have 472 people on the line.
I mean, The Broncos before last week had the 6th? 7th? 8th? (something like that) rush defense and played the offense this way. We still ran it down their throats with a 3rd string (by definition, anyway) RB and a back-up tackle. Point is, this run game reminds me A LOT of Arian Foster Texans years. You know what the hell was coming, but they were simply too good to be stopped. The Steelers coming into this game are 20th or so in rush defense.
Coming into the game, I'm magnitudes more concerned about the defense's inability to get off the field on 3rd down. The Steelers set themselves up often to be in 3rd in manageable, which for some dumb reason is the defense's Achilles heal. I get a bad feeling it's gonna be a lot (let's be honest, after celebrating Halloween Saturday night slightly hungover) sighs on 3rd down conversations by Pittsburgh.
The cardinals game was an anomaly in many different ways, that game was set up to lose really. A red hot team against an obviously hurt QB, two back-up tackles, and two banged up RBs.
The cardinals game was an anomaly in many different ways, that game was set up to lose really. A red hot team against an obviously hurt QB, two back-up tackles, and two banged up RBs.
The Browns can pretty much bet that the Steelers will "stack the box".... the Broncos tried to stuff the run to start the game like other teams, but the Browns came out throwing the ball first drive. First play of the game, I believe. It goes back, again, to Bernie Kosar loving to throw a long throw on the first play once in a while, just to get into the defense's heads. I still think Stef has run too often on first down.
The "we will run on them..." thing gets to a point where they know you want to establish the run, so they work to stop the run. Then they can pick their blitzes on second and/or third down and long hopefully. It seems that Wills at LT is a key to the game. Another is, Hance really played well at RT. Be unpredictable. ON defense, stop with the loose zone. It loses football games all too often against excellent wr's and good quarterbacks.
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My feeling is if we are looking at Baker long term, we sit him for a while. If not and don't care if he gets fucked up, play him.
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I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
They're both on IR.
Alualu fractured his ankle on 9/19. Tuitt has an as-yet-undisclosed knee injury from training camp that teams don't have to reveal if on IR.. but he's played zero 2021 snaps.
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I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
right where i thought Stef called solid play calls to DJ's vision & best part of his game with Denver. Between the tackles. I can't recall many runs DJ stretched outside the T.. Alualu & Tuitt are huge loses.. meaning Buggs & Wormley are up..
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I'm understanding that Tuitt and TA are out? Bodes well for that inside zone and ball control.
right where i thought Stef called solid play calls to DJ's vision & best part of his game with Denver. Between the tackles. I can't recall many runs DJ stretched outside the T.. Alualu & Tuitt are huge loses.. meaning Buggs & Wormley are up..
right where i thought Stef called solid play calls to DJ's vision & a best part of his game with Denver. Between the tackles. I can't recall many runs DJ stretched outside the T.. Alualu & Tuitt are huge loses.. meaning Buggs & Wormley are up..
Just need to get the linebackers to over or under pursue laterally once or twice to really make the running game hum.
As for Baker, rest until we leave the home stand. We can win a war of attrition similar to how it was against Denver. The key is avoiding turnovers, something injured Baker has struggled with. Run the ball, win the turnover margin and you've got your George W.
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Just a rule of thumb is that a starter at any position is better at 80 or 90% than the backup. If that wasn't the case the backup would be starting somewhere. That being said you have to weigh the risk reward on making the fracture worse and how a brace or a cast could protect it.. Seems pretty close to the joint and the Steelers are dirty stinking bastards and I don't doubt the Tomlin would have his thugs try to injure the shoulder.
I realize this is kind of a wishy-washy answer but I would lean toward Baker especially if Conklin is back up to speed and Johnson can do a Hunt impression
WSS
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Zombo said:
That's ridiculous re Baker.
He makes us 7 points better by playing. Just because we beat Denver doesn't mean we keep pressing our luck with the backup, get our leader back on the field.
This is a division game for chrissakes, he can rest his arm after puts down that Super Bowl trophy.
Z
Z, a healthy Baker makes us 7 points better. He's not healthy. Notice the line started going down when the extent of his injury came out? Even with our QB situation up in the air, (meaning there's a distinct possibility Keenum plays) we're still favored against the Steelers. Yeah, that backup who took the Vikings to the playoffs. So chill out already.
I 100% agree with Steve. Given the opportunity, I fully expect one of the Steelers to "accidentally on purpose" do a Turkey Jones number on Mayfield's injured shoulder. Season over.
I'll be at the game, (The Curse won't be) should Baker play (the Medical Staff won't let him unless they deem it safe) expecting the worst (like two fumbles and an interception against the Cardinals) and hope for the best.
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Zombo said:
That's ridiculous re Baker.
He makes us 7 points better by playing. Just because we beat Denver doesn't mean we keep pressing our luck with the backup, get our leader back on the field.
This is a division game for chrissakes, he can rest his arm after puts down that Super Bowl trophy.
Z
Yeah, man. Heard the "all hands on deck" thing for Denver and that worked out pretty well.
Pittsburgh and Denver have some glaring similarities- weaker on the IDL and questionable Oline play. QB's who can't drive the ball downfield and concerns at corner. All areas the Browns are clearly above Pittsburgh when we're healthy.
If Baker could suffer long(er) term injury by the couple shots he would/will assuredly take in this game, then I like my chances of going without him.
His footwork alone before the injury went from concerning to serious, and with it more turnovers. That's enough justification for Case in a game of "who blinks first". Mayfield was so concerned about taking further shots his decision making and delivery went to hell.
And Steve is agreeing with you so now I know I'm in the right camp here.
I'll take our running game, trench play and home crowd vs the Steelers and feel pretty ok about it.
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Zombo said:
As for this game ... does a football game ever really turn out like you imagine it in your head?
Well, not to jinx anything, but I'm looking at my 4th year straight of turning a profit off betting spreads. Including going 6-10 on my underdog picks.
So.... yeah?
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Zombo said:
As for the Denver game and "and all hands on deck" ... guys like Landry, Wills and OBJ played and gutted it out, and that 3 point win could easily go south without them ... especially Wills.
As for this game ... does a football game ever really turn out like you imagine it in your head? Just because you feel the running game, trench play and home field should be enough ... we are going against one of the best coaches in football, the Steelers are not just going to play into our strengths and go home. We'll need some big plays and Baker provides them.
He has one game with three turnovers and now you are scared and don't remember who he is ... He was playing that game with two completely inexperienced backup tackles, a fresh injury, without Chubb and Landry and against the top team in the NFL. But THAT'S the performance you want to define him by?
If Case's career as a Brown is one start and one win ... that is ideal.
Z
Don’t think for one second that Ben and Tomlin don’t have this one circled too. This is going to be a rough game.
Im sure the Steelers watched Jed Wills hobble around all night. That factor alone against Steeler edge pressure that is a turnover waiting to happen.
I think there are very few teams in this league where we can win a game comfortably we don’t have consistent QB play and our Def. Coordinator and scheme who knows from week to week.
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Zombo said:
The spread is different than HOW a game turns out, i.e. the Browns will win a low scoring game by dominating the trenches. Coach Tomlin didn't just fall off the turnip truck, the Steelers are going to hit us with a smart shot. It could be a shootout, it cold be a blowout ... but the chances of it turning out just like the Broncos game is unlikely because the Steelers know how to watch tape and adjust, we need all of our weapons at our disposal, including our most important one.
By the way, Baker practiced with the starters today and Case backed him up.
Z
Steeler's "smart shot"? Yeah- like I said, may as well paint a target on Baker's LEFT shoulder. Line up TJ on the left side and clobber him on that left arm. Eat your Wheaties before the game Wills.
And, I'll just have to disagree with you- I'm 100% of the opinion that injury is affecting his play. (Hmmm... it was affecting his sleep, the pain was so severe.) I'll trust Tia's expertise that his footwork has gone to hell post injury, and it sure as hell even to my untrained eye- it's affecting his accuracy.
Stefanski is going to have to decide if an 80% Mayfield is better than a 100% Keenum.
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Zombo said:
The spread is different than HOW a game turns out, i.e. the Browns will win a low scoring game by dominating the trenches. Coach Tomlin didn't just fall off the turnip truck, the Steelers are going to hit us with a smart shot. It could be a shootout, it cold be a blowout ... but the chances of it turning out just like the Broncos game is unlikely because the Steelers know how to watch tape and adjust, we need all of our weapons at our disposal, including our most important one.
By the way, Baker practiced with the starters today and Case backed him up.
Z
Steeler's "smart shot"? Yeah- like I said, may as well paint a target on Baker's LEFT shoulder. Line up TJ on the left side and clobber him on that left arm. Eat your Wheaties before the game Wills.
And, I'll just have to disagree with you- I'm 100% of the opinion that injury is affecting his play. (Hmmm... it was affecting his sleep, the pain was so severe.) I'll trust Tia's expertise that his footwork has gone to hell post injury, and it sure as hell even to my untrained eye- it's affecting his accuracy.
Stefanski is going to have to decide if an 80% Mayfield is better than a 100% Keenum.
Yeah- like I said, may as well paint a target on Baker's LEFT shoulder.
Stefanski is going to have to decide if an 80% Mayfield is better than a 100% Keenum.
chiming in on a Jay Glazer doc vs David Chow introduced today.. This video is long.. enjoyed the medical trainers input here though (for those interested) than i cut out
?? the voodoo witch hunts continue
#Browns QB Baker Mayfield threw a bunch of short passes today during the portion of practice open to reporters. Looked to be comfortable. Appeared to be wearing a new harness on injured left shoulder.2:03 PM · Oct 27, 2021
Nate Ulrich@ByNateUlrich#Browns QB Baker Mayfield threw a bunch of short passes today during the portion of practice open to reporters. Looked to be comfortable. Appeared to be wearing a new harness on injured left shoulder. -
Zombo said:
Well I don't think he's 80%, his right arm and legs are perfectly fine, it's a pain threshold thing.
But, yes ... 80 Baker is better than 100 Case.
And I like Case.
You fuckers don't know what you have with Baker.
Z
I absolutely DO realize what we have in Baker. You're not listening to the other voices in the room. Tia said it pretty well- his mechanics are getting screwed up. Take your pick. 1) he's afraid he's going to get hit.. 2) the shoulder pain is affecting his accuracy. Let me hit you with a hammer in your non throwing shoulder and see if it doesn't affect your concentration.
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The Cardinals showed teams how to beat us. The Broncos didn't even try to replicate that effort and nobody knows why. The Steelers definitely will try and shut down the run and regardless of what the stats say, I don't see us running the ball against the Steelers right away. Maybe after we establish the pass, but not right away. They're going to have 472 people on the line.
I mean, The Broncos before last week had the 6th? 7th? 8th? (something like that) rush defense and played the offense this way. We still ran it down their throats with a 3rd string (by definition, anyway) RB and a back-up tackle. Point is, this run game reminds me A LOT of Arian Foster Texans years. You know what the hell was coming, but they were simply too good to be stopped. The Steelers coming into this game are 20th or so in rush defense.
Coming into the game, I'm magnitudes more concerned about the defense's inability to get off the field on 3rd down. The Steelers set themselves up often to be in 3rd in manageable, which for some dumb reason is the defense's Achilles heal. I get a bad feeling it's gonna be a lot (let's be honest, after celebrating Halloween Saturday night slightly hungover) sighs on 3rd down conversations by Pittsburgh.
The cardinals game was an anomaly in many different ways, that game was set up to lose really. A red hot team against an obviously hurt QB, two back-up tackles, and two banged up RBs.
I mean, The Broncos before last week had the 6th? 7th? 8th? (something like that) rush defense and played the offense this way. We still ran it down their throats with a 3rd string (by definition, anyway) RB and a back-up tackle. Point is, this run game reminds me A LOT of Arian Foster Texans years. You know what the hell was coming, but they were simply too good to be stopped. The Steelers coming into this game are 20th or so in rush defense.
Coming into the game, I'm magnitudes more concerned about the defense's inability to get off the field on 3rd down. The Steelers set themselves up often to be in 3rd in manageable, which for some dumb reason is the defense's Achilles heal. I get a bad feeling it's gonna be a lot (let's be honest, after celebrating Halloween Saturday night slightly hungover) sighs on 3rd down conversations by Pittsburgh.
The cardinals game was an anomaly in many different ways, that game was set up to lose really. A red hot team against an obviously hurt QB, two back-up tackles, and two banged up RBs.
Yeah, I love your post. Like you said, getting off the field on 3rd down is going to be an absolute nightmare. Steelers are experts at getting the ball out quickly and we are NOT experts at tackling and minimizing gains. Add in the fact that JOK is out and probably Ward, it's not a terrific recipe. We're going to need turnovers, a defensive score, and probably a big stop on 4th down, because you know the Steelers are going for it several times.
Get ready for a war, people. Let's go!
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Baker's too stubborn to call his own number. If he is the long term solution, then he needs to be shut down before he risks his career with further injury to his non throwing arm. He might be able to better deal with the pain now that it's a complete labral tear, but that comes at a cost of a significant amount of stability. He's going to get tackled, he's going to come down hard. It's not a question of if he gets injured again, but when. Without any structural stability from the labrum, his shoulder is at higher risk of dislocation and all the fun neurovascular complications that may come with that. My read is that the doctor has spoken with Baker about this, and that Baker stubbornly accepts the risks and chooses to play. I think Stefanski needs to pull rank and bench him, because Baker has not been the same QB since his week 2 injury, and his downfield accuracy is gone. This won't get better without surgery, so I wish he'd quit stealing reps from Keenum. It's not like we won't franchise him if he sits the rest of the season. He's still our QB of the future, but if he has another major injury to that shoulder, it's his whole career at risk.
Sorry Baker, you can't prove human anatomy wrong.
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Zombo said:
Last time I saw him play he threw the longest pass of the year in the NFL which hit People's Jones in the numbers in the end zone 67 yards away.
Z
I genuinely can't tell if you're fucking around or....?
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Zombo said:
Last time I saw him play he threw the longest pass of the year in the NFL which hit People's Jones in the numbers in the end zone 67 yards away.
Z
to be fair...
That bomb happened to go to halftime.. Bake's fumble injury with Watt came @6:37 into the 3rd.. Bake is 4 of 8 (completes of plus +6/6/4/7) since 2nd injury with longest pass of 7 yards.. Bakes rushed for plus 2 since 2nd injury... Bakes not played since Keenum's mop up duties in 4th since Zona
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Zombo said:
No idea why you think it will effect his deep ball. Either he can throw or he can't. Looks pretty certain he will be able to.
Z
just some
facts jack! And Please... stop with the you* ? to *some of you..
i have been on Bakes train since his senior bowl.. I've posted nothing to the fact of Bakers playing.. but It's a coaches choice to get it right..
If
can prove he can still hit on some home run balls? Bake's still my best choice over playing Keenum (everyday ending in Y)
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Zombo said:
You guys are way overly dramatic about this injury.
And his downfield accuracy is gone?? When? Where?
Last time I saw him play he threw the longest pass of the year in the NFL which hit People's Jones in the numbers in the end zone 67 yards away.
Z
Sorry, you're being as stubborn as Baker poo-poohing how serious of an injury this is. I'm thinking Vapor posted a pretty good take on the situation. Yeah, I read the transcript of his interview from yesterday. Get it through your thick head, if this was his right shoulder he'd already be on IR for months, if not the rest of the year.
Looking comfortable in practice, and in a game after Watt or Heyward whack him a few times are two completely different animals. Just realize Mr. Sunshine every time that shoulder pops out the damage gets worse. Like the possibility it could turn into a complete humeral head fracture or a torn rotator cuff. One more, and I'm betting the Docs will shut him down.
Regarding the 65 yarder to DPJ? Please. 1) Baker took a 5 yard running start 2) threw it as hard as he could 3) that it came down to DPJ was purely accidental 4) no accuracy involved. It's why they're called Hail Mary plays. Um, let Josh Allen have the same circumstances, he could easily have thrown it into the 10th row of the Dawg Pound.
So, if Baker gets the call Sunday, I hope he plays lights out. But MHO is- you're playing with fire Baker, and eventually you're going to get burned. The odds of you going through another 10 games without taking another serious shot to that shoulder are zero. "Put me in Coach, I'm ready to play."
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Zombo said:
You guys are way overly dramatic about this injury.
And his downfield accuracy is gone?? When? Where?
Last time I saw him play he threw the longest pass of the year in the NFL which hit People's Jones in the numbers in the end zone 67 yards away.
Z
Sorry, you're being as stubborn as Baker poo-poohing how serious of an injury this is. I'm thinking Vapor posted a pretty good take on the situation. Yeah, I read the transcript of his interview from yesterday. Get it through your thick head, if this was his right shoulder he'd already be on IR for months, if not the rest of the year.
Looking comfortable in practice, and in a game after Watt or Heyward whack him a few times are two completely different animals. Just realize Mr. Sunshine every time that shoulder pops out the damage gets worse. Like the possibility it could turn into a complete humeral head fracture or a torn rotator cuff. One more, and I'm betting the Docs will shut him down.
Regarding the 65 yarder to DPJ? Please. 1) Baker took a 5 yard running start 2) threw it as hard as he could 3) that it came down to DPJ was purely accidental 4) no accuracy involved. It's why they're called Hail Mary plays. Um, let Josh Allen have the same circumstances, he could easily have thrown it into the 10th row of the Dawg Pound.
So, if Baker gets the call Sunday, I hope he plays lights out. But MHO is- you're playing with fire Baker, and eventually you're going to get burned. The odds of you going through another 10 games without taking another serious shot to that shoulder are zero. "Put me in Coach, I'm ready to play."
Regarding the 65 yarder to DPJ? Please. 1) Baker took a 5 yard running start 2) threw it as hard as he could 3) that it came down to DPJ was purely accidental 4) no accuracy involved. It's why they're called Hail Mary plays. Um, let Josh Allen have the same circumstances, he could easily have thrown it into the 10th row of the Dawg Pound.
I'll be jumping out of these claims...
All is Good Z.. ? hang loose.. we all want this win Badly !
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