I have had my fill, and I am going to vent: That's MY QB!
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From what I've seen of Keenum, I'm definitely in no rush to see him take over as qb, but...Mayfield is hurting himself right now, by trying to be a hero. Obviously, his injuries are affecting his play. He's not only prolonging his recovery, but he's also hurting the team, and possibly damaging his mental state and confidence. I would have no problem with Keenum taking over, and what ever happens, happens. I don't believe Mayfield is playing like crap just because he's a bad qb. I, personally, think he's a very good qb when healthy. Before the shoulder thing, he was one of the most accurate deep ball throwers. Now....well...I don't have to tell you, if you've been watching. It's pretty pathetic. I would much rather he just sit there and get better than embarrass himself every game.
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Emotion and wish projection no matter how fervent doesn't make Baker good in 2021 or moving forward.
I'm sure Baker's fanbois will continue to change the subject and make intentionally bad arguments [He's better than Kizer!] but that doesn't transmogrify Baker into some sort of top QB.
Unless, of course, your standards for Good Cleveland QB are the rules of Calvinball -- you make them up as you go.
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Zombo said:
What limitations?
Other than being hurt. This season got ugly right away with Wills going down in Week 1, then Hubbard, then Conklin.
As a consequence, Baker has been knocked around like never before, suffered three painful injuries that would have benched a lesser man ... and THAT has limited him.
But when he's healthy ... like last year ... what are his limitations? Please list them.
Z
Quickly….
Year 4 his ability to decipher coverage and make quick decisions is not up to a standard of QB that will probably command upwards of 30-35M. He holds onto the ball too long. He’s had problems with leaving clean pockets.
He’s a playaction QB but when placed outside of that fish bowl he struggles. See our 5 wide empty backfield struggles.
Hes struggled with throws outside of the hashes.
Good one week bad the next…hallmark of being average. The intangibles make him above average.
Off the charts competitor…strong arm….2020 deep ball was stellar.
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Zombo said:
Baker tells it like it is. No bullshit. My favorite Cleveland Brown in a long time.
I follow his wife on Insta. She posts great stuff, she shares fan posts, tons of them. Everyone jumps on this particular one that was in the mix and runs with it, as, sadly our culture has become.
I assure you she meant it as no swipe at the rest of the team. She has said so.
She's the one that sees him get out of bed in the morning with a purple shoulder, a purple knee and a purple foot. She sees him struggling to get up and go to treatment, she sees how much pain he is in when he gets home. Family Members are protective. Are we really upset that his wife reposted something protective of her husband?
It's not like his Daddy was posting videos of all the times he got hit and aimed it at his Oline and posted #FreeBaker and Baker stayed mum on it. What kind of asshole would do that to his teammates? Maybe some douchebag on the Rams ... That shit don't fly in Cleveland.
Keep being awesome, Baker, we got your back.
Most of us, anyway.
Z
Awesome Z? Not in the last two games. He pretty much sucked, and admitted as much. As I told Gunner- 54 qbr with two TDs and three interceptions. I'll posit Keenum (or some practice squad qB) could hardly have done done any worse. He's hurt- and those hurts ARE affecting his performance.
And to reply to your rebuttal of SC (Baker has a quick release) sure- but the problem is, at Tia has pointed out if you were listening. A quick release won't do you much good if your ability to decipher post snap reads is slow. You wonder why he dances around in the pocket if his primary read isn't open? There's your answer.
Yes Z Baker is a huge improvement over the likes of Brandon Weeden and Deshone Kizer... When he's healthy... Which he ISN'T right now. LOL- sadly, his performance against the Lions sort of reminded me of dear old Deshone's play. A healthy Baker is at least as good as the Bengals Andy Dalton who took Cincy to multiple years of playoffs.
The only valid excuse against the crappy Lions is he's hurt worse than he's letting on. He had everyone back except Conklin and DPJ- and he stunk. (Johnson's current level of play is more than an adequate replacement for Hunt) And if he's that hurt- he shouldn't be out there playing- MHO.
Zombo said:
We've won two out of three while he recovers, we're not going to make the switch now, or ever.
I'm glad we are on the road this week, in Primetime, Baker is going to shine, because no one has been harder on his performance than himself, and no one knows how to make it better than himself.
Then he gets two weeks off to rest his bruises, breaks and pains, and we continue our assault on the AFC North.
This storyline is setting us up for glory, I'm glad I will be able to say I backed him 100% when he was suffering, because the rewards are tenfold when you believe in something or someone.
Go get em, Brownies, we got them right where we want them!
Z
Can I have some of your Baker kool-aid? Mind over matter? It's bordering on arrogance. Hey- my nephew is hiking the Grand Canyon next spring.. Sure, I'll go with him- it will be way cool. But I'm realistic enough to say my 70 year old body isn't up for it anymore. I just hope Baker will do the same- that his body isn't doing what his mind is telling it to do.
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Zombo said:
Did you miss last year, Bud?
Z
no they just want a reason to hate him.. They want the next Derek McFrye... Because.. They were so fucking great!... WHAT!!
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Fitting ? Plan B ?
Michigan Man joining rant sessions again...
Why is it that it’s always @richeisen that has to be the one with Common Sense & has to wake up some of the #Browns Fan Base. #ThankYouRichwho's calling Rich? click 'Watch on Twitter'#VictoryMondayFitting ? Plan B ?
Michigan Man joining rant sessions again...
Why is it that it’s always @richeisen that has to be the one with Common Sense & has to wake up some of the #Browns Fan Base. #ThankYouRichwho's calling Rich? click 'Watch on Twitter'#VictoryMondaySpot on. I like Rich. We all know that Baker is better than the bums we've had before. And we know there's nobody we can plug in that's better (aside from Keenum because Baker's hurt). But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't take a flier on drafting a QB in a later round each year. We've gotta keep him until somebody comes along that's better. And continue to put pieces around him. (Like a #1 receiver because our #1 fucked us over...and now we ain't got one)
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Again, I feel you severely lack perspective my friend. I’ll take learning on the job over the washed up, irrelevant coaches and front offices just here for the paycheck, the journeyman veterans at QB that came here for the same, the “absolutely no one would make that pick at QB” EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DRAFT, the constant QB room drama, endless losing, and absolutely mindless tearing down of my team every two to three years.
we have a football team. It is hurt, struggling, but my sweet Jesus IT IS NOT WHAT WE ENDURED FOR TWO DECADES!
THATS MY QB! THATS MY COACH!
GO BROWNS.
Ive had enough coaches learning on the job...
Ive had enough coaches learning on the job...
I don't have a problem with coaches learning on the job. Every head coach is a rookie when they start. Learning on the job is par for course. What I don't like is if a head coach let's a QB walk all over him and make decisions that the head coach should be making. I see no other explanation for letting Baker play against Detroit.
We all know Baker shouldn't have started the game.
We all know Baker should've had an extra week to rest up.
We all know that Case would have done at least as well or better than a hobbled Baker.
Baker literally could not have done any worse and still won the game. There was no logical reason for the coach to have started Baker other than Baker wanted to start.
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Zombo said:
We won a tough, ugly game, and our quarterback gutted it out, because it's his job.
Yes. If he's the starter, and the medical staff tells the coach that he can play, then the coach has to play him. Otherwise, he would be benching the starter.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Zombo said:
We won a tough, ugly game, and our quarterback gutted it out, because it's his job.
Yes. If he's the starter, and the medical staff tells the coach that he can play, then the coach has to play him. Otherwise, he would be benching the starter.
Yes. If he's the starter, and the medical staff tells the coach that he can play, then the coach has to play him.
No, he doesn't. Why would the coach have to play a starter who is clearly hobbled? Just because the starter, who has more bravado than brains wants to? That's dereliction of his head coaching duties. The medical staff may have cleared him medically to play, but it was obvious he was not able to play at a level any better than our backup would have. Baker contributed nothing other than worsening our chances against the Ravens.
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Yes. If he's the starter, and the medical staff tells the coach that he can play, then the coach has to play him.
No, he doesn't. Why would the coach have to play a starter who is clearly hobbled? Just because the starter, who has more bravado than brains wants to? That's dereliction of his head coaching duties. The medical staff may have cleared him medically to play, but it was obvious he was not able to play at a level any better than our backup would have. Baker contributed nothing other than worsening our chances against the Ravens.
No, he doesn't. Why would the coach have to play a starter who is clearly hobbled? Just because the starter, who has more bravado than brains wants to? That's dereliction of his head coaching duties. The medical staff may have cleared him medically to play, but it was obvious he was not able to play at a level any better than our backup would have. Baker contributed nothing other than worsening our chances against the Ravens.
Let's use the famous Bill Belichick quote "I can only go by what I see". So to be charitable, let's posit Baker looks just fine in practice this week. Um, practice where anyone on the Browns defense would probably get fined for so much as touching him? It's a tad different situation when the live bullets start flying in an actual NFL game. Yeah Kev, you can overrule the medical staff if in your best judgement Baker isn't ready to play.
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Zombo said:
We won a tough, ugly game, and our quarterback gutted it out, because it's his job.
Yes. If he's the starter, and the medical staff tells the coach that he can play, then the coach has to play him. Otherwise, he would be benching the starter.
Yes. If he's the starter, and the medical staff tells the coach that he can play, then the coach has to play him. Otherwise, he would be benching the starter.
FWIW, NFL starters get benched on a regular basis for lousy play. So he's medically cleared to play? Whoopee!!! I'll posit a 53 qbr (against the Lions) is third string backup territory. Quote the Baker, nevermore... "I sucked"... Thank you Baker for telling us what we already knew.
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Zombo said:
We won a tough, ugly game, and our quarterback gutted it out, because it's his job.
If you're not with him when he's suffering, don't be jumping back on his bandwagon when he catches fire like he did last year.
I'm so impressed with him gutting out that win, that I'd re-sign him this week and tell the the media and the fickle fans to go fuck themselves.
Z
Thanks...I needed that....
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Yes. If he's the starter, and the medical staff tells the coach that he can play, then the coach has to play him. Otherwise, he would be benching the starter.
FWIW, NFL starters get benched on a regular basis for lousy play. So he's medically cleared to play? Whoopee!!! I'll posit a 53 qbr (against the Lions) is third string backup territory. Quote the Baker, nevermore... "I sucked"... Thank you Baker for telling us what we already knew.
FWIW, NFL starters get benched on a regular basis for lousy play.
Sure, but that is in fact what Stef would be saying by benching him....that he's playing lousy. Which would have a ripple affect. Baker would be pissed....and another QB controversy would arise with the fans, media, and probably among 'some' players. Causality (as would be said in astrophysics)
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
FWIW, NFL starters get benched on a regular basis for lousy play.
Sure, but that is in fact what Stef would be saying by benching him....that he's playing lousy. Which would have a ripple affect. Baker would be pissed....and another QB controversy would arise with the fans, media, and probably among 'some' players. Causality (as would be said in astrophysics)
Sure, but that is in fact what Stef would be saying by benching him....that he's playing lousy. Which would have a ripple affect. Baker would be pissed....and another QB controversy would arise with the fans, media, and probably among 'some' players. Causality (as would be said in astrophysics)
If we are touting Baker as a great leader/competitor he may be pissed but he would come back sharp and ready to go the next week and squash the controversy talk on the field.
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FWIW, NFL starters get benched on a regular basis for lousy play.
Sure, but that is in fact what Stef would be saying by benching him....that he's playing lousy. Which would have a ripple affect. Baker would be pissed....and another QB controversy would arise with the fans, media, and probably among 'some' players. Causality (as would be said in astrophysics)
Sure, but that is in fact what Stef would be saying by benching him....that he's playing lousy. Which would have a ripple affect. Baker would be pissed....and another QB controversy would arise with the fans, media, and probably among 'some' players. Causality (as would be said in astrophysics)
Well there's already a controversy brewing among the fans... (Fan Sided even had an OP-ED to that effect) I already caught grief in one of the other Facebook Browns Forums for even suggesting Mayfield is hurt, not playing well and should sit for a game or two.
What bench our hero?
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Sure, but that is in fact what Stef would be saying by benching him....that he's playing lousy. Which would have a ripple affect. Baker would be pissed....and another QB controversy would arise with the fans, media, and probably among 'some' players. Causality (as would be said in astrophysics)
Well there's already a controversy brewing among the fans... (Fan Sided even had an OP-ED to that effect) I already caught grief in one of the other Facebook Browns Forums for even suggesting Mayfield is hurt, not playing well and should sit for a game or two.
What bench our hero?
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No, he doesn't. Why would the coach have to play a starter who is clearly hobbled? Just because the starter, who has more bravado than brains wants to? That's dereliction of his head coaching duties. The medical staff may have cleared him medically to play, but it was obvious he was not able to play at a level any better than our backup would have. Baker contributed nothing other than worsening our chances against the Ravens.
Let's use the famous Bill Belichick quote "I can only go by what I see". So to be charitable, let's posit Baker looks just fine in practice this week. Um, practice where anyone on the Browns defense would probably get fined for so much as touching him? It's a tad different situation when the live bullets start flying in an actual NFL game. Yeah Kev, you can overrule the medical staff if in your best judgement Baker isn't ready to play.
Yeah Kev, you can overrule the medical staff if in your best judgement Baker isn't ready to play.
Lions game-tape tussles..
a) Detroit finally scores a TD 2 minutes left in 3rd, to get score to 13-7 (Swift 58 yrd. TD)
b. ) (next Browns set) with just over a minute left in the 3rd.. Baker's bruised heel, (foot) gets stepped on.. (3 & out.... even i thought Bake could not protect himself.. *Stef chance 1?)
c.) Keenum warms up, Bakes in blue tent (who's doc cleared his return ? )
d. ) (browns next set) Baker is forced to take off out of a murky pocket, to gain 7 yards on a scramble his very next procession early 4th.. (now what?)
e.) Baker than throws a tipped pick by Anzalone (credit his back petal vert to get to it).. (*Stef's 2nd chance?) @tiamat63 good play to look at?. if Baker takes some off to get ball over Anz? It looks like a pick? Or Landry walks into a creaming? (nfl highlight tape 5:52) your appreciated DB thoughts?
f.) Lions kick FG to make score 13-10....Stef looks to decide to protect Bake/ and closed out game by running the rock..(Batman needed no Robin)
me thinks, Stef had 2 solid chances to over rule his med staff... (injury to poor play)
after viewing all 22 Baker? Baker's healing injuries late in games, leaves me nervous of seeing any 4th quarter heroics.. staying tuned
Go rag-doll the Rat-birds !
Happy Thanksgiving !
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Zombo said:
What limitations?
Other than being hurt. This season got ugly right away with Wills going down in Week 1, then Hubbard, then Conklin.
As a consequence, Baker has been knocked around like never before, suffered three painful injuries that would have benched a lesser man ... and THAT has limited him.
But when he's healthy ... like last year ... what are his limitations? Please list them.
Z
Quickly….
Year 4 his ability to decipher coverage and make quick decisions is not up to a standard of QB that will probably command upwards of 30-35M. He holds onto the ball too long. He’s had problems with leaving clean pockets.
He’s a playaction QB but when placed outside of that fish bowl he struggles. See our 5 wide empty backfield struggles.
Hes struggled with throws outside of the hashes.
Good one week bad the next…hallmark of being average. The intangibles make him above average.
Off the charts competitor…strong arm….2020 deep ball was stellar.
Quickly….
Year 4 his ability to decipher coverage and make quick decisions is not up to a standard of QB that will probably command upwards of 30-35M. He holds onto the ball too long. He’s had problems with leaving clean pockets.
He’s a playaction QB but when placed outside of that fish bowl he struggles. See our 5 wide empty backfield struggles.
Hes struggled with throws outside of the hashes.
Good one week bad the next…hallmark of being average. The intangibles make him above average.
Off the charts competitor…strong arm….2020 deep ball was stellar.
If your HC is a run-first oriented guy like he was in Minnesota - these are some reasons I think the empty backfield sets are a bad idea given where this team seems to be stuck on pause with right now:
1. When we've had a backup Guard playing RT while Wills has missed starts/shown no lateral mobility when he plays on the high ankle sprain. Is there a better time to have a RB at least scraping/bumping 1 of the edges coming out of the backfield or just staying in and stepping up to pass pro on the side having the most trouble? Another option is to remember that screen pass NE threw very effectively that the Browns could do if they had RB in the backfield.
2. The first argument to my thought in #1 is the no back formations are for the quick completions to the very reliable WRs that the QB trusts. WONDERFUL! That's awesome. Who are those guys? And how often are they available? Anyone ever look at the who didn't practice and who was limited that did practice? For all the OBJ nonsense, he missed training camp, practices as well as some starts at the last minute that surprised the coach with the game plan? Football is a sport where you play like you practice/prepare. Start reading those injury lists posted every week of who practices and who doesn't. It's taken a toll on the chemistry, consistency and continuity of the passing game. We all see Jarvis Landry hasn't been healthy enough to give us the same caliber of consistency he did over his 1st 3 years with this team. Last week, he got injured again to the point he couldn't finish the game - the same week he said he wanted to be used more right? Even DPJ's has been banged up in recent weeks. And YES, we also use some TEs in that formation where 1 or 2 may have to help in pass pro or at least chip on the edge. None of this has me thinking we have perimeter matchups to exploit in the passing game at all.
3. Anyone remember the NYJ game last year when we lost our entire starting WR group to COVID on the Thurs/Fri before the game? That is what our passing attack has felt like this year when we have the same sum of WRs available capable of winning their matchups. And THAT was a team who won 11 regular season games and a playoff game. Ironically, when national media guys got a hold of our playoff loss to the Chiefs - they didn't want to acknowledge Higgins' fumble at the goal line became a gift wrapped touchback for KC. And why was that? It was WAY too inconvenient to their agenda of proving their thesis that Baker is not capable of getting the Browns to a Conference Championship Game. They didn't want people remembering a pass that should have been a go-ahead TD in lieu of reminding us about Baker's only INT of the game at the end. Keep in mind, Higgins wasn't a regular starter and the problem wasn't the pitch or the catch. The problem was Higgins didn't secure the football at a time it needed to be secured the most. Those are the little things that separate winning and losing as well as starting vrs filling in for starter.
4. Last, but not least, why are we watching Baker week after week functioning at 60% of his performance capability when we have an experienced and reliable Stefanski product from the Vikes capable of performing better than that right now? This situation is the main reason Keenum is here. The more that injury continues to get aggravated the more our offense gets handcuffed IMO.
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The only intelligent commentary here has come from SDbacker and Zombo and yes I know how crazy that statement sounds.
So many of you are so quick to jump onto the bandwagon of hating Baker. You would rather tear down your own team to satisfy your urge to virtue signal and “fit in” than acknowledge the fact that this entire season, not just for the Browns, has been a shit show.
At the end of the day all that matters is our boys are in the thick of the AFC North title race. This division is so tightly contested that any one of the four teams could run the table and take the division crown. This team has demonstrated some resilience, and now it’s football weather time in our neck of the woods. Our team Is built from the ground up to make these sorts of late season, ground and pound close out runs. Health is the KEY!
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