Baker Mayfield

hoorta

@westside-steve said:

Time to give up on the season. Should have been done weeks ago. Probably too late to try to trade all our decent players but what the heck. Lose the next few games move up in the draft, fire Stefansky and start all over. Great. Win win for the haters.

WSS

Damn Steve us call us realists "Haters" it's a popular position for the sunshine pumper crowd.... Maybe you missed Baker gimping around AGAIN on one leg. FYI, I didn't... Get the crip out there for the rest of the season, and hello, 8-9. That's being charitable considering...

@nickers said:

This is why I haven't given up on Baker... I see the big picture down the road with him.. I don't care if others do not share that sentiment.. I do not want to run this young buck out of town just to see him go somewhere and watch him thrive in another uniform... Has anyone even taken note of what Colt McCoy has done recently with talent around him?... Guys like Steve Grogan,Gary Hogeboom and Joe Ferguson turned in some decent years late in their careers and made playoff appearances.. While they're not what you call elite.. They were more than serviceable at the QB position when things fell in place for them...

This isn't about THIS year nickers... Unless you believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, THIS season is shot. PERIOD. Baker injury wise- is SHOT. I just told my pal to put my Browns Ravens tickets up for sale. Starting bid for section 111 at face value, I'll eventually take just a buck. I'm not driving 440 miles just to see Baker play like a third string street free agent.

FWIW, Kareem Hunt's Dad happens to agree with me....

Westside Steve

@hoorta said:

Damn Steve us call us realists "Haters" it's a popular position for the sunshine pumper crowd.... Maybe you missed Baker gimping around AGAIN on one leg. FYI, I didn't... Get the crip out there for the rest of the season, and hello, 8-9. That's being charitable considering...

This isn't about THIS year nickers... Unless you believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, THIS season is shot. PERIOD. Baker injury wise- is SHOT. I just told my pal to put my Browns Ravens tickets up for sale. Starting bid for section 111 at face value, I'll eventually take just a buck. I'm not driving 440 miles just to see Baker play like a third string street free agent.

FWIW, Kareem Hunt's Dad happens to agree with me....

I call hater's haters. As far as your gasoline bill I doubt you would drive 440 miles to see the 2nd or 3rd quarterback hand off to practice squad running backs either. Why don't you ask Hunt's dad how many yards his kid got? Sunshine boy? Sure. That's why I watch these fucking games.

( And while you guys are crying about Mayfield ask coach why the animosity toward Higgins one of Baker's favorite receivers? And since you guys are all about protecting the health of players Donovan peoples Jones was barely able to take the field. And since the backups give you an equal chance to win how did that line look without Conklin?)

WSS

Westside Steve

Just one more thought If any head coach thinks about his contract for next year and beyond is he looking to go O and 5 for the rest of the season or trying to do as well as he can?

WSS

mjp28

@westside-steve said:

Just one more thought If any head coach thinks about his contract for next year and beyond is he looking to go O and 5 for the rest of the season or trying to do as well as he can?

WSS

Or if he does and I think that most do to some degree, he would be better off to keep it in house -or- to himself.

They aren't exactly hurting or looking for their next meal. What a profession they're in head coaches in the NFL ........wow.

Dutch Oven

@westside-steve said:

Just one more thought If any head coach thinks about his contract for next year and beyond is he looking to go O and 5 for the rest of the season or trying to do as well as he can?

WSS

With the Cincinnati game now looking like a complete outlier for the second half of this season, the Browns have produced 14, 10, 7, 13 and 10 points in the other five games with Baker as QB.

0-5 - WITH Baker as QB - against the remaining schedule, is a distinct possibility.

Westside Steve

@dutch-oven said:

With the Cincinnati game now looking like a complete outlier for the second half of this season, the Browns have produced 14, 10, 7, 13 and 10 points in the other five games with Baker as QB.

0-5 - WITH Baker as QB - against the remaining schedule, is a distinct possibility.

So might as will guarantee it right?

WSS

jrb12711

@dutch-oven said:

With the Cincinnati game now looking like a complete outlier for the second half of this season, the Browns have produced 14, 10, 7, 13 and 10 points in the other five games with Baker as QB.

0-5 - WITH Baker as QB - against the remaining schedule, is a distinct possibility.

With two of those games being against bad (Lions) and well below average (Steelers) defense. I do think a very non-insignificant factor has been play calling, but oof. No doubt about it, 4-1 (with maybe a Packers loss) or 5-0 is going to have to be it to sniff the playoffs. Unless there's a secret cure for #6, though, I'm not seeing that as likely.

Dutch Oven

@westside-steve said:

So might as will guarantee it right?

WSS

I think they'll win one, maybe two more games, honestly.

But if they were to go 0-5, with or without Baker, it wouldn't shock me.

nickers

For all of you HATERS of #6!... Be careful what you wish for... You just might get QB Purgatory...

Icecube

@dutch-oven said:

He has a torn labrum.

That isn't getting better without surgery. No amount of rest is helping it.

Ah, but rest could help heal his bum knee, groin, heel and whatever else is hurting. He is obviously more beat up than just the shoulder.

Icecube

@nickers said:

For all of you HATERS of #6!... Be careful what you wish for... You just might get QB Purgatory...

I mostly agree with the video, especially about the part where Baker should be paid around $30 mill per year, a sum that would pay him more than any other team would, yet not wreck the Brown's ability to keep/add more talent. Baker's wife said that he changed the entire culture of the team; if he even partly did, he deserves a new deal. The one difference between he and Brees is, Drew was never as cocky as Baker; I'll leave that to others on whether that is a good thing or not.

Westside Steve

This might be the same video as the one that gives the video not available Flash. If so here it is again

WSS

tiamat63

@ 5:05 in that tape from Warner is the flood I broke down that was a good design and a good read/throw by Baker.

Sounds silly, but I feel very great about my analysis when I see things a HoF is also seeing.

calfoxwc

@westside-steve said:

This might be the same video as the one that gives the video not available Flash. If so here it is again

WSS

this is excellent stuff. I do have my own observation - about Baker's 4 step drop back instead of 3. Baker has a foot injury, so maybe? he can't forcefully use that foot to make the initial step, so he used his right foot instead. Outside of that, pretty convincing appraisal by an expert.

Flugel

@tiamat63 said:

@ 5:05 in that tape from Warner is the flood I broke down that was a good design and a good read/throw by Baker.

Sounds silly, but I feel very great about my analysis when I see things a HoF is also seeing.

I know what you mean. I said the same thing when Blutarsky said "was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

tiamat63

@flugel said:

I know what you mean. I said the same thing when Blutarsky said "was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

"Germans?"....

"Forget it, he's rolling".

Flugel

@calfoxwc said:

this is excellent stuff. I do have my own observation - about Baker's 4 step drop back instead of 3. Baker has a foot injury, so maybe? he can't forcefully use that foot to make the initial step, so he used his right foot instead. Outside of that, pretty convincing appraisal by an expert.

Believe it or not, Josh Heupel added steps to the QB dropback from the shotgun formation at Oklahoma. This leads me to wonder when this habit actually evolved with Baker. If it's not a great thing for the NFL as we've witnessed on many occasions - it shouldn't be impossible to coach Baker out of that habit.

I don't ever see any of our coaches on game day taking a seat next to Baker in between series to adjust. Think about NE in comparison, whoever starts/started at QB there has OC Josh McDaniel reviewing overheads and discussing adjustments in between series. That even included a veteran like Tom Brady. Even though Baker is in his 4th year - this isn't exactly his 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th different offense/OC. For some reason, now that Stefanski has his dream job title of HC - he only wants to be an OC while I see a bunch of areas of the team that need better coaching. Why not get Alex Van Pelt down on the sidelines to work with Baker when things go wrong on game day? Seems a lot better than waiting until Monday and then sweeping it under the rug as part of another rinse and repeat.

Gorka

At 8:45 it demonstrates Bakers lack of field awareness.

He's focused entirely on Landry as Hooper breaks open. There was no need to double clutch.

Pause it at 9:29. How the fuck does anyone not see that?

tiamat63

@gorka said:

At 8:45 it demonstrates Bakers lack of field awareness.

He's focused entirely on Landry as Hooper breaks open. There was no need to double clutch.

Pause it at 9:29. How the fuck does anyone not see that?

I have both those plays along with a couple more broken down and sitting on my desktop. Out watching the HOU-CIN game now, I'll post them later.

tiamat63

Far be it from me to argue with a HoF QB, but I don't think he's watched all the games of Baker that I have. There's no way given his videos. Because sample size means... so very much. You wouldn't believe Peyton Manning would be a future HoF QB based on a couple games his rookie season when he set the rookie QB INT record. Likewise you wouldn't/won't be able to have a better command of the shortcomings that plague the Browns 2021 season without watching ALL of their games.

There are plays in that video I noticed Kurt simply glossed over for reasons I still don't understand? BAD plays too... shit that would be a red flag and speaks to some of the themes I've been mentioning. I get he doesn't believe that everything is Baker's fault, but he almost made it sound like the things that were within his control could be excused. Sadly, a lot of them cannot. Theme's from the Ravens game showed up like themes from previous bad games.

- Bakers pre-determination of his throws, especially to the boundary

- His pension for leading receivers into traffic

- Not reading obvious pre-snap and post snap defensive cue's.

Example 1.

One of the man-beaters Stef called up. You get a trio stack to the field and some obvious man coverage tips pre-snap. But I get you can't lock on pre-snap. So you double check a couple things like high safety alignment (inside hash but favoring near side) Point man (DB on the trio lead) and who is picking up Hunt should he release.

The man beater is a sort of mesh concept. It creates a nature pick against man coverage AND - Kareem releases across the face of Baker. So the Backer that was previous to his right has declared man coverage. Safety is still high and outside your primary with DB's playing the pick poorly and not "leveling" their coverages correctly.

The problem is how LONG Baker held onto this ball for.

When I say that ball should be OUT, I mean as in the windup should have started and zipped. This would allow for MAX YAC in a game that would come down to a score.

You'll notice the 2 DB's that carried the vertical route? The ball being out on time allows for max YAC because their eyes aren't back and in recovery to limit damage.

Instead the ball comes out late and is caught just outside the numbers.

The 2 DB's that were carrying vertical got their eyes back, and are already driving to the sticks.

It was a first down and again, I can't argue with results. But Kurt in the video linked in his very first play complimented Baker's choice of hitting a slant/curl combo. BUT, even though he gave Baker a compliment, noticed the timing was rather "meh". Even in ok plays, there are still things that show they need cleaning up. This is in that exact same line of thinking. This sort of thing could take an ok play and allow max expected yards. This just isn't operating the offense to your fullest potential on this design.

What's worse is that it isn't a vertical throw, so it's hard to say "Baker can't throw deep, he's hurt". Sure. This is all with Bakers eyes and mind, and they're not a fast as a HOF QB would prefer to see at this time. That's the "gist" I'm feeling from Warner when he says things like that. Or as coach Saban said "You compliment the car, but don't see the oil leak that we do".