2022 Draft Prospects and off-season addition breakdowns.

[gumby73]

@gumby73 said:

Round 2 Grades

19. D. Ojabo ️  Edge  Michigan (he still should go Rd. 1 in my ? heart) but, just maybe?

20. P. Winfrey  3techDT  Oklahoma

21. D. Leal  3techDT/DL     A&M   (see same L. Hall note)

22. G. Pickens X-WR   Ga.

23. T. Jones  0techDT  U.Conn.

24. D. Jackson  Edge   USC

25. Logan Hall  DL    Houston    (where does he play at 283 lbs?)

26. C. Watson  X-WR   NDST

27. S. Moore   Z-WR    W. Mich. ( I like his game/athlete, to well to drop to R3)

28. *D. Hill  F-DS    Mich.   (*here thru pick 31... Doubt they get to here... firm maybe on L. Cine)

29. *K. Gordon  O-CB  Washington 

30. *K. Elam  O-CB     Fla.

31. *T. McDuffie   O-CB    Washington

32. L. Cine     F-DS     Ga.

Round 3 Grades

33. E.Ebiketie   Edge   Penn. St

34. C. Harris   M-LB     Bama

35. N. Cross     F-DS     Maryland

36. B. Hall          RB          Iowa St.

36. J. Pitre          F-DS    Baylor

37. N. Bonitto    Edge    Oklahoma

38. T. McBride  Y-TE    Colorado St 

39. Z. Johnson   OL       BC

40. T. Smith         OT       Tulsa

41. R. McCreary  O-CB  Auburn

42. J. Metchie III   Z-WR  Bama

43. D. Faalele         OT        Minn.

44. C. Muma          M-LB   Wyoming  

45.  L. Chenal        M-LB     Wisc.

46. C. Thomas       Edge     SDST

47. T. Andersen    M-LB     Montana

48. J. Brisker         F-DS     Penn St.

49. A. Pierce         X-WR      Cinn.

50. D. Clark            M-LB       LSU

51. D. Bell                Z-WR       Purdue  (low RAS score)

52. J. Salyer            OL            Georgia (low RAS score)

53. G. Dulcich        F-TE         UCLA

54. D. Parham         OL            Memphis

55. C. Austin III     F-WR        Memphis

56. K. Shakir          F-WR         Boise St.

57. D. Kinnard          OL             Kentucky  (scored poorly from Senior bowl thru Pro Day, but not on game-days ?)

major tweaks here to do also, while moving onto round 4...

Good Day gents ! 12 days from Draft Day 

[mjp28]

12 days until it starts for real.  NDD 2022 !

[Dutch Oven]

Less than 2 weeks away! 

Finally got around to getting a Draft Guide, went with Athlon, who knows how good it is, but what the hell. I expect Berry to be aggressive in trying to fill holes like WR, DT and DE. 

[tiamat63]

There are a couple plays I'm going to point out and his adjustment as a DB that gives a subtle nod to his football IQ and matchup awareness.

 @ 10 seconds and work those frames between 10-12 second marks.    Not a fan of the weight distribution and then the "reach" for contact.   Toss in with hips being open early and it creates a recipe ideal for getting beat back inside by bigger receivers.  

@31 seconds is what I'm talking about.    Good stance at snap, nice balance, would like to see the hands up and working a little faster.  But now Mathis has made contact with his inside arm, far side from the direction is hips are naturally opening.   As a result, a long armed receiver like Ross (pretty sure that's Ross?) can fight off that on line aggression early and win back inside.   At that point, it's a matter of playing catchup.    When I said I loved Mathis' hips in my post above, after the loss at the line, he flips and flys.  Looks very fluid in doing it, so that's a nice part of this rep.   But when you lose like that at the LOS, you throttle up to gain ground, Ross sinks his hips, chops his feet and gets around on the deep square with Damarri rolls past him.       Ball didn't go his way, but that's a lost rep IMHO.  The correction to this I saw shortly after, which is a great thing making those adjustments on the fly.

@ 1:14    high at the snap, again reaching well past balance and quality weight distribution to get a jam on the receiver.  I'm not sure if that's how the Pitt coaches are teaching it?  But either way I hate it.   If you pause that frame @ 1:16... it's just teach tape on what NOT to do.   Mathis' is damn near falling over here trying to get physical at the line with Clemson's tall receivers on the perimeter.   He's able to recover, but again he rolls past the receiver breaking off the hitch.    I feel like I'm watching Chimdi Chekwa from tOSU back in the day.  Another DB who played "leggy" - high and a lot of wasted steps.        Btw, DJ for Clemson is garbage this past season.   This play was a TD shot dialed up against Pitts VERY familiar base quarters look.    Tigers coaches got the matchup they wanted and their QB couldn't deliver. 

The adjustment I'm talking about is @ 1:40.     Instead of working contact at the line, DB's with shorter arms create that contact after judging release and getting in phase.    Mathis' is still playing high on the receiver here, but what he does after initial contact is high level.   Reading hands, eyes and feeling the receiver pull up in the route because he's playing high hip, he can create a little more contact and get away from having the yellow laundry thrown on him because he's getting his eyes back around to the ball and not letting the receiver win through contact.  

Granted, this should have been a back shoulder throw.  A buzz, a shoulder fade, whatever you want to ball it.  The ball placement is bad.    But Mathis' getting his eyes back around, having that twitch and discipline, and most importantly being a fluid athlete allows him to go and attack this pass for the INT.    That's veteran material the entire way though.  The IQ to know how you're playing the WR, to know how the offense likes to attack your technique, and then the agility to flip the script.     Good corners deny balls, great corners take errant passes and produce turnovers for their squad.

@ 2:35   Great disguise on the corner pressure.   He didn't sit so far inside the receiver that he tipped it off.  Looks like he's just playing an inside eye.  You also don't see him peeking back inside on his rush lane either with head movement.   Corner blitzes are incredibly risky, but especially so in the day of the RPO and so many post snap sight adjusts.   The last thing you want is a veteran receiver like Ross signaling to his QB that you're coming off that assignment.      It's still a completion, but DJ didn't immediately get his eyes there so credit to the young QB for getting around to his best matchup.  Otherwise it's really about as backyard pitch and catch as you can get.   And credit to Mathis for seeing the QB in his delivery and trying to get a hand up on that ball.   It had to come out a little high, so if that was a shorter receiver, chances are it's an errant throw.  

@ 3:18  I hate bail, but really when it's a 3rd and 7 situation.   I favor playing heavy at the chains and forcing the QB to make a play, especially a young QB like DJ from Clemson.    This throw was behind and outside because both QB and WR aren't on the same page in terms of route depth post snap.    Not a great rep.

@ 3:41 - Again, instead of looking to create contact immediately at the line, Mathis' waits for the release and goes hands on at about 3 yards working to squeeze the receiver to the sideline.  

@ 4:13 - arm length might be a problem for Mathis in the pro's.   He is going against a guy who's 6'4, so it's rare you find corners who win that matchup.   But when you give up that much ground, you can't try to work the chest.  You go for a quick shoulder contact, otherwise you end up exposing your own chest.

@ 5:07 - that's better, getting contact on the shoulder instead of trying to get on the interior pads of a long(er) armed receiver.   Finished by not getting so high on the receiver in such a short field. (Boundary corner)

@ 7:19 - getting off the block by Ross and planting outside for the bounce against this counter pull, then taking the wheels off Shipley.  I have no argument against Mathis' willingness to get physical.  

@ 8:23  Unless he's playing 2 read/palms/trap...   that's a hell of a gamble to take.   He's playing off reading between the 2 to the 1.   Clemson has been using their #2 on these outs against Pitts base quarter looks on early downs to get favorable matchups on their safeties.   Mathis' plants and drives on the #2 to the boundary and almost comes up with another pick.    I'm not entirely sure if that's by design because if it is, that boundary safety inside far enough on that hash that Ross could have beaten him up the sideline a 2nd time.   Either way, good recognition, plant then drive by Damarri. 

That's it for now.  I'm not sure why so much hype, I've seen his named mentioned in the 3rd round.  He's a good enough athlete and is fluid, but he isn't elite twitchy.   Good short area burst and quickness, but his long ball speed is a concern along with his arm length on the outside.  Needs to work on his feet before he gets into live fire NFL snaps, because right now his shit won't work against pros.  That Pitt coaching is going to need to be flushed out to an extent.   But I see upside as a nickel, dime and dime safety role.   Honestly he could come in and be MJ Stewart + the ability to actually be a primary man coverage defender along with expanding into a more "traditional" safety role.  He has the eyes and football I.Q. for it.      Mid Day 3 pick, IMHO.

[gumby73]

Happy Easter Dawgs ! ?     ?

These 16 of the official 30 team visits seems legit...

A reported so called 'flight delay'  moved WR Treylon Burks private (pri) visit to a *VIR - Virtual Zoom Meeting. 

SR - Senior Bowl meeting.
EW - East-West Shrine meeting.
COM - Combine meeting.
INT - Interested.
VINT - Very Interested.
PRO - Pro Day or campus meeting/workout.
LOC - Local visit. Prospect making a local visit.
PRI - Private visit. Prospect making an official 30 visit.
WOR - Private Workout. Members of an organization working out a player in private.
STM - Some Type of Meeting.
VIR - Virtual Meeting.

 Cleveland Browns

• Matt Araiza, Punter, San Diego State (WOR)
• Trevon Bradford, Wide Receiver, Oregon State (PRO)
• Treylon Burks^, Wide Receiver, Arkansas (COM, VIR*)
• James Cook, Running Back, Georgia (PRI)
• Greg Dulcich, Tight End, UCLA (PRI)
• Devin Harper, Linebacker, Oklahoma State (PRI)
• George Karlaftis, Defensive End, Purdue (COM)
• Chase Lucas, Cornerback, Arizona State (PRI)
• EJ Perry, Quarterback, Brown University (VIR)
• Mark Robinson, Linebacker, Ole Miss (WOR)
• Tariquios Tisdale, 3-4 Defensive End, Ole Miss (WOR)
• Christian Watson, Wide Receiver, North Dakota State (PRI)
• Isaiah Weston, Wide Receiver, Northern Iowa (VIR)
• Rachaad White, Running Back, Arizona State (PRI)
• Malik Willis, Quarterback, Liberty (COM)
• Jalen Wydermyer, Tight End, Texas A&M (PRO)

don't get caught up in the hype of team visits.. But, by the end of next week, we should see a completed list..

Kinda odd seeing ?.. not a single DT, has made a Browns team visit ? few DE's ? staying tuned

[Dutch Oven]

Hasn't been many mock drafts this year, so what the hell, with my Athlon's Draft Guide I came up with one for the Browns. 

Rd 2, #44 overall: DE Jermaine Johnson II, Florida State
He's a little rough around the edges, but Johnson has NFL-caliber traits and, with more reps and the right position coach, could emerge as a quality starter and potential star as a 4-3 end or 3-4 outside linebacker.

Rd 3, #78 overall: DT Travis Jones, UConn
His size (6'4", 330lbs), strength and movement skills gives Jones plenty of upside. He'll be a rotational lineman asked to eat blocks but could round into a more complete player as a 1-technique. 

Rd 3, #99 overall: WR Alec Pierce, Cincinnati
He enters the NFL as a downfield specialist. But Pierce's size (6'3", 210lbs) and movement skills suggest he has a chance to become more refined and a more complete receiver.

Rd 4, #118 overall: OT Max Mitchell, Louisiana Lafayette
He won't appeal to teams looking for a mauler, but Mitchell is long-armed and nimble, with the kind of traits to be a quality starter in a scheme that gets him working in space as a run blocker. 

Rd 6, #202 overall: CB Joshua Williams, Fayetteville State
Williams has an intriguing skill set that will appeal to teams interested in long-press corners. 

Rd 7, #223 overall: K Cade York, LSU
One of the better kickers in this year's class, has ability to kick 50+.

Rd 7, #246 overall: ILB James Skalski, Clemson
He's the kind of guy who can win over a coaching staff and stick around the league, but Skalski probably tops out as a fourth linebacker and core special-teamer. 

 

[gumby73]

@tiamat63 said:

Possibly my mid round, early day 3 darkhorse for CB.

May this speaking cat keep his day job ?.. 6'4" Zyon ran a 4.4 flat.. smooth hips/plays angry

don't see as a huge position need.. but for a 6th or 7th? well just maybe..

[Flugel]

@gumby73 said:

May this speaking cat keep his day job ?.. 6'4" Zyon ran a 4.4 flat.. smooth hips/plays angry

don't see as a huge position need.. but for a 6th or 7th? well just maybe..

Great video especially if you turn the sound off.  This looks like a great idea for the 6th or 7th round.  Seattle found a few late round prospects for their Legion of Boom (Byron Maxwell rd 6, Richard Sherman rd 5, Kam Chancellor rd 5, Brandon Browner Undrafted FA).  

With all the attention the Browns have given to the secondary in the draft and Free Agency in recent years - I'd rather have them wait until round 6 or 7 this time around...

[tiamat63]

@gumby73 said:

May this speaking cat keep his day job ?.. 6'4" Zyon ran a 4.4 flat.. smooth hips/plays angry

don't see as a huge position need.. but for a 6th or 7th? well just maybe..

6'4 is just huge at corner.   I don't really mess with highlight tape because it's so sided, but I turned off the volume and watched.  

Patient hips and, naturally given his height, attacks the ball well downfield.   Not sure I'd call him smooth or fluid, especially laterally - which is where corners of that size tend to be vulnerable. 

Funny that Flugs brings up Byron Maxwell, because he's an example of a tall corner (6'2) that the Patriots exploited in the horizontal passing game with Julian Edlemen (5'11) 

But like you said, kicking over late round rocks never hurt anyone.  Might even be priority UDFA.

[Flugel]

@tiamat63 said:

6'4 is just huge at corner.   I don't really mess with highlight tape because it's so sided, but I turned off the volume and watched.  

Patient hips and, naturally given his height, attacks the ball well downfield.   Not sure I'd call him smooth or fluid, especially laterally - which is where corners of that size tend to be vulnerable. 

Funny that Flugs brings up Byron Maxwell, because he's an example of a tall corner (6'2) that the Patriots exploited in the horizontal passing game with Julian Edlemen (5'11) 

But like you said, kicking over late round rocks never hurt anyone.  Might even be priority UDFA.

While true, Edelman beat corners of all sizes when teamed with the GOAT's precision.  I brought up Maxwell more for where he was drafted; and as you reminded us - he started for a team in the Superbowl.  Lucky for Maxwell, the only thing Seattle fans remember about that SB loss was Pete Carroll not using RB Marshawn Lynch on 1st and goal at the 1 yard.  

On the other hand, Richard Sherman is listed at 6'3" and he's a 5 time All Pro that was also selected to the Pro Bowl 5 times.  What some tall guys may lack in some areas can be compensated for in others. For example, the long levers/wing span when closing on the football.  They can also be very beneficial in press coverage.  To your point though, most teams had questions about Sherman or he would have been drafted before round 5.  

[tiamat63]

@flugel said:

While true, Edelman beat corners of all sizes when teamed with the GOAT's precision.  I brought up Maxwell more for where he was drafted; and as you reminded us - he started for a team in the Superbowl.  Lucky for Maxwell, the only thing Seattle fans remember about that SB loss was Pete Carroll not using RB Marshawn Lynch on 1st and goal at the 1 yard.  

On the other hand, Richard Sherman is listed at 6'3" and he's a 5 time All Pro that was also selected to the Pro Bowl 5 times.  What some tall guys may lack in some areas can be compensated for in others. For example, the long levers/wing span when closing on the football.  They can also be very beneficial in press coverage.  To your point though, most teams had questions about Sherman or he would have been drafted before round 5.  

And you're not wrong in any of these points.  I guess mine being that, the LOB cover 3 heavy looks from Seattle that were all the rage damn near ten years ago (that stings to type out, time truly does fly, doesn't it?)  Now have some very well established scheme and personnel counters, which is why I brought up Edleman.   The type of corners were talking about, the Maxwells, the Sherms - tall, long arms but not twitchy and lateral athletes with elite hips, they are incredibly scheme/role specific.   I'd also like to point out that once those type of DB's experience hip, hamstring or groin issues, when they lose a step it's 5x more magnified than other corners who don't depend exclusively in their strength at the line and throughout the route.   They don't have speed to burn, let alone speed to lose.  

Nnamdi was one of my favorite DB's when he was with the Raiders.  I would watch his hand usage and try to learn as much as I could when I was playing.   IMHO, probably the most complete corner too, when you consider just how bad the talent around him was.    He still shined very bright, so he wasn't getting much help.   But when he lost a step, it was more noticeable than a corner such as Champ Bailey, who was lightning fast and could play just about anything you could ask a corner to do.    

Then again, when you're throwing darts in the 5h-7th round at these guys, I suppose having role players like that (AJ Green, our AJ) is actually a quality thing to have.   Doesn't alleviate my concern about said prospect, only coming to the conclusion that, if the draft investment isn't a high one, then might as well fire away.  

....    Logan Hall write up on deck and being worked on the 2nd monitor as we speak.

[nickers]

@tiamat63 said:

6'4 is just huge at corner.   I don't really mess with highlight tape because it's so sided, but I turned off the volume and watched.  

Patient hips and, naturally given his height, attacks the ball well downfield.   Not sure I'd call him smooth or fluid, especially laterally - which is where corners of that size tend to be vulnerable. 

Funny that Flugs brings up Byron Maxwell, because he's an example of a tall corner (6'2) that the Patriots exploited in the horizontal passing game with Julian Edlemen (5'11) 

But like you said, kicking over late round rocks never hurt anyone.  Might even be priority UDFA.

Mel Blount was 6-3 and turned in a HOF career... He was awesome..

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BlouMe00.htm

[tiamat63]

Logan Hall.   Honestly, I need more time to do these even further.   Because the Cincy game is difficult to get a gauge on the scope of his abilities.    On one hand I see upside. I see a hot motor, great first step, and some real attitude in his game.  Like... classic mean streak type shit.     On the other hand, after initial contact, he tends to play high and lose his base quite often.  Not really any secondary move beyond a bull rush, and isn't elite enough past his 1st step to threaten the edge consistently.     I guess that's why I said Buckner 2.0 (lite)    because he's a piece you'll need to move around to get the most out of him.   

He doesn't have the weight or pad level to be parked inside without being a target.    And he doesn't have that speed and bend to play edge full time either.    So you're likely looking at a Buckner, Michael Bennett situation - a "base" end who slides across the interior when you want to let him rush the passer. 

As for this Cincy game being difficult, let me explain a bit further.   

This is Houston in their over front.

For anyone who likes to keep up on more "modern" offensive styles.  Anyone knows that the inside zone, power read, split zone, etc etc, these college offenses make the B gap their holy grail.  That's where the natural crease tends to present itself and the most natural rushing lane when taking a hand-off from the gun.   You get enough of a lateral step to have time for your block to setup, but you're not going so wide you lose your burst and have to change rush directions outside.    Go talk to your local high school or college coach, they'll tell you the same.  They want B gap runs.

Pic below is a defensive answer to the modern spread for power.

- "lighter" box count to help have numbers in the passing game.  The field safety is crept down a yard or so, he's 11 yards-ish off the ball.  But for the most part, it's a 6 man front in this example.  That's a 6 man front against 5 Oline, 1 RB and 1 QB.  Since we count the QB as a runner in our fits.  

- Nose is heads up, maybe a slight favor to his left shoulder.  Enough where the center likely couldn't get ahead and cross his face.   And still squared enough that if the RG wanted to double him, he'd have to get there.

- Hall is parked between a 3 and 4i tech.  Meaning his base would be inline with the LT's inside shoulder.

- Remember what I said about that B gap...  running backs friend.   

- Both edges playing open, nearside a 5 tech and farside closer to a 7.  

At the snap...

- Instead of attacking the LG left shoulder and occupying (B gap) Hall goes after the L-A gap.  As a result the LG now has to engage him inside while the Nose gets the right shoulder of the center and draws a double from the RG.   That's 2 Dline being picked up by the entire IOL - RG, C, LG. 

- The edge rushers have a 1 on 1.  A cut block by the LT and a cut block by the RT.   If you're asking yourself why a cut? Well those scream some type of screen game, you have to open up that passing lane somehow.  And few things fuck up a screen to the WR's like an edge getting a hand up and knocking down a ball.      As a result, edges are holding firm outside so nothing bounces past their free shoulder.

- Big takeaway from this.   The HOU defensive coaches understand they want their playmakers, their LB's attacking downhill at the B gap.  No better way to do that then to clear the way.   Look at the left and right B gap.  If you're a LB playing cloudy vs clear, then you get the green light to blow up a ball carrier, unless you somehow get shook in the hole.     More importantly, they've designed up ways to slow down the Cincy running game without sacrificing numbers in the passing game.  

Now, I showed you that because I wanted you to have an idea of what Hall did most of the game.  So I had to sort through and find the plays where I could work to find further conclusions of ability beyond just playing what he was asked to do - tie up the IOL.  

The cutups themselves.

I'll start @ 0:45, naturally you have to watch and pause at the time stamps.  (help me out, people)

- Great arm extension and getting his paws into the chest of the LG without drawing contact into his own chest.   But his weight distribution here is just bad at first.  It's like leaning against another human being as your support structure.  Faster guards will let you lose your base and fall over yourself.  Other issue here, head needs to be up higher.  That's how you separate your eyes from your base and how you get off blocks to the ball carrier. 

Like I said above, 1st step is fantastic, but his 2nd and 3rd steps on contact need a lot of work.  When you're that far out over your weight/base,  you can't recover in attacking your gap, you slow down your feet and again - eyes are down.     What earns him any marks here are his 1 step and violent hands, that's about it.

@ 1:01 - a nice wrinkle and change up in the running game by Cincy.  Can't speak highly enough about the job Coach Fickell and their staff does with real-time adjustments.  Instead of just continuing to base block against the creative HOU front, they attack a backside B gap by creating one.  The LG pulls, and per the 2 frames above, Hall is sent at the inside shoulder to tie up the interior as much as possible.  LG pulling, means the center picks him up and the intitial contact by the center, along with being a bit high in his pads and caught off guard, made for a great call by Cincy.    Logan works off the block by just being the better athlete, but he's not able to sharpen his footwork down the line to get to the RB.   Home-run play by the Bearcats.   I would like to point out, the front side backer saw the downblock by the RT and SHOULD have planted his ass there, but for whatever reasons ends up following the TE on his release.   Both the lead AND the RB literally walk through the vacated hole.     

I know a ton of people will watch that and not be able to comprehend or appreciate the design.  So trust me when I say, it's fun watching that type of chess match.

@ 1:24 - gets us a look more towards what I said in my initial paragraph about moving Logan around - here he's playing more of a closed end in the HOU base 1st/2nd downs.   His height and length really make him pretty ideal for that spot against the run on early downs. He's quick enough to set a hard edge, and big enough to not really be moved.  However he isn't fast enough to bend the corner either.    

But he did make up for it by controlling the RT with his inside arm while walking upfield.   Again - his length is a real asset.  I haven't checked his arm measurements, but when your right arm is across your body working a tackles right shoulder? Holy hell you've got some wingspan.  And at 6'6, I'd sure hope so.

@ 2:18 - The idea with the zone step is that, if you're facing a 3 tech (ish) he'll flow and attack your outside shoulder as the guard to close that B gap.  Instead Logan fires into the R-A gap and runs down Ridder on the QB power (shades of Vince Young)   Now how much of this is on the RG just getting smoked like an asshole and believing the center would pick him up? Couldn't say.   But having a consistent base under you is the only way to maximize your short area quickness.     LH really had to work to run this one down.  Better coaching, he might end up being more fluid in this attack.  

@ 2:45 - the first 3rd down, pure pass rush set so far. 

 What looks to be an initial T-E stunt against a slide protect, ends up a 3 man rush with a 4th in a low hole spy.     I have to credit Logan's motor here because he kept fighting and working.  Although the LG and LT picked him up and passed him off then carried upfield VERY well.    This sack is on Ridder.   He kept drifting back and wide into this one.  Plenty of room to step up into a clean pocket and find a lane.  

@ 2:53 - Cincy back to that pull game for their B gap.   Instead of bringing both the guard and the TE from the backside, they bring the LG and use the TE as a lead to the frontside against the edge.  Cool little design and window dressing.      The center gets to Hall again, but he handles the contact (anticipates?) it much better.  Fights upfield with good balance and strength.  

@ 3:10 - Another example of B-gap attack by the HOU defense.   Logan crashes into the A - Gap and the SAM flys in right behind him to stop the RB short.

@ 3:32 - I know @tour2ma will yell at me for thinking of a trap call and this design first.  But I'm at least half your guys' age.   A trap call to him is a pulling lineman picking up a IDL.   But in 2022, like this play shows, Cincy calls a trap on Logan by using the H (TE) instead of coming down the line to pickup the edge on a sift, there's a hand from the RG and the TE is now picking up the backside 3 tech (Hall)  I would suspect Logan's initial hesitance is believing he won so fast he's getting the lead and the RB both in the hole.    But the worst thing he could have done here was, instead of driving through the TE or attacking his inside shoulder, he attempted to continue going outside.   Giving the TE un-intentional help by walking upfield and then finally some feet getting tied up into the RT.       Another example of what happens when you play too high and not balanced.    Honestly that's the crux of my concern with LH.

@ 4:33 - This play serves two purposes for me.  One - it goes back to what I mentioned at the very first screenie I posted, HOU's gameplan to limit the cincy running game with lighter box counts.    Nose and LH again tie up the IOL, but Cincy gets aggressive on early downs as a response, which is a great call.  The edges draw a TE, RT/TE chip and the cherry on top is the boundary safety getting sucked up by the heavy play action.      At some point those safeties were going to have to cheat down just a bit, and this was a good time to dial up a shot.   The 1 on 1 let Pierce win pretty convincingly on the backshoulder buzz.  

Oh, WRs in this draft - bigger bodies who can play that 'X' role and be physical outside.  There's a reason I'm not sweating taking a WR top 50.  You can find guys who aren't the greatest route runners, but win with size, physical play, leverage body positioning and strong hands, literally a basketball on grass style, in the 3rd and later round.  Case in point - DK Metcalf.    Alex Pierce from Cincy is one of my candidates for the Browns because I think he fits the mold to value VERY well.   

@ 5:35 - What happens when your head is down and your eyes are up?  Bad shit.    Now this play has nothing to do with Logan, but I'm using it to highlight what can be drawn up your way if this sort of thing shows up on film too much.   Tunnel screens, middle screens to HB's, reads, pulls, traps.   Your eyes have to be quick and disciplined, but they have to be up and available first and foremost.   Head down also means your balance isn't ideal, which is the theme I keep coming back to.

The rest of the game was Cincy pretty much buttoning it up and playing conservative.     Logan is listed as a top 50 pick by a few publications and I have to say, I genuinely believe that's for potential only.    And yes, that potential is there.   I'm sure I haven't been the only person to think "Buckner" when you see someone 6'6 280lbs with a wingspan like a condor.      I love LH's 1st step, heavy hands, nonstop motor and brawler attitude.    But my love of his game doesn't include the words 'fundamentals' or 'technique'.      But you know what else doesn't have technique? An anvil.   Which is what you'll be getting the 1st year or 2 with this kid.   A blunt object is pure force and will and little else.   It has it's uses, and they sure as hell aren't pretty despite being effective.  But sometimes the grace and finesse of a razor can do the job with half the effort and twice the ease.  

  My biggest question is, do the coaches believe they can teach and instill more than his one current tool?  Can he be an anvil and a razor?

This is pretty much where I stand with Logan on my 1st game viewing -   I can move him around while coaching up his technique and second nature, but if I'm expecting a high volume day 1 contributor to lock down a single position and grow as a starter from the 1st snap his rookie season, then this isn't the player for this team.     If I want a flexible athlete who could mentally and physical grow into a utility knife in the coming years?... then by all means.

But top 50?  My heart isn't so sure about that one.  

edit. Armstead - NOT Buckner. I'm thinking of an Arik Armstead comparison.   My bad, they both played for Oregon. 

[Flugel]

@tiamat63 said:

And you're not wrong in any of these points.  I guess mine being that, the LOB cover 3 heavy looks from Seattle that were all the rage damn near ten years ago (that stings to type out, time truly does fly, doesn't it?)  Now have some very well established scheme and personnel counters, which is why I brought up Edleman.   The type of corners were talking about, the Maxwells, the Sherms - tall, long arms but not twitchy and lateral athletes with elite hips, they are incredibly scheme/role specific.   I'd also like to point out that once those type of DB's experience hip, hamstring or groin issues, when they lose a step it's 5x more magnified than other corners who don't depend exclusively in their strength at the line and throughout the route.   They don't have speed to burn, let alone speed to lose.  

Nnamdi was one of my favorite DB's when he was with the Raiders.  I would watch his hand usage and try to learn as much as I could when I was playing.   IMHO, probably the most complete corner too, when you consider just how bad the talent around him was.    He still shined very bright, so he wasn't getting much help.   But when he lost a step, it was more noticeable than a corner such as Champ Bailey, who was lightning fast and could play just about anything you could ask a corner to do.    

Then again, when you're throwing darts in the 5h-7th round at these guys, I suppose having role players like that (AJ Green, our AJ) is actually a quality thing to have.   Doesn't alleviate my concern about said prospect, only coming to the conclusion that, if the draft investment isn't a high one, then might as well fire away.  

....    Logan Hall write up on deck and being worked on the 2nd monitor as we speak.

Well said!  Beginning with emphasis on rounds 5-7, it looks like we agree on a lot of things mentioned.  I brought up Seattle's Legion of Boom due to the luck they had with drafting a cluster of DBs from rounds 5-7 + Undrafted FAs that played significant roles in their success.  To your points about taller corners, there aren't a lot of corners over 6'1" when I go through many of the 2021 rosters.  Most range from 5'10" to 6'1". Once in a while there's a Justin Simmons or Trayvon Mullen at 6'2".

[Flugel]

@nickers said:

Mel Blount was 6-3 and turned in a HOF career... He was awesome..

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BlouMe00.htm

I'm still celebrating his retirement!

[nickers]

@flugel said:

I'm still celebrating his retirement!

I think most of are , Tom.. But man he set some standards for big CB's

[tiamat63]

@flugel said:

Well said!  Beginning with emphasis on rounds 5-7, it looks like we agree on a lot of things mentioned.  I brought up Seattle's Legion of Boom due to the luck they had with drafting a cluster of DBs from rounds 5-7 + Undrafted FAs that played significant roles in their success.  To your points about taller corners, there aren't a lot of corners over 6'1" when I go through many of the 2021 rosters.  Most range from 5'10" to 6'1". Once in a while there's a Justin Simmons or Trayvon Mullen at 6'2".

6'1 is about where corners top off.   Hip sink, flip and agility becomes more of an issue any higher.

[Flugel]

@nickers said:

I think most of are , Tom.. But man he set some standards for big CB's

He was so big, physical and dominating, the NFL changed the rule about how far downfield you could press receivers.  Restricting press coverage to 5 yards off the LOS is because of him Nickers. 

[nickers]

@flugel said:

He was so big, physical and dominating, the NFL changed the rule about how far downfield you could press receivers.  Restricting press coverage to 5 yards off the LOS is because of him Nickers. 

absolutely, Tom...

[tiamat63]

Finally was able to both make time and have the drive to sit down and force a few of these out.   I'm going to try to make these short and sweet using the best possible examples for my conclusions.   3/4 of these have been sitting on my desktop since May, had to retrace my steps to get back where I was.  Sorry about the delay, for anybody who had asked me about my opinions on these players.  

Starting with Deaton.

You really can't hope a whole hell of a lot for a 7th round pick.  But I'll say this for what I saw 

- He's huge.  Especially for a center.  6'4 310?  That's mammoth height at that position.   Could be great in relation to wingspan.  Could be a detriment in relation to that wingspan not being used to his advantage.  Being 6'4 means nothing if an IDL who's 6'1/2 fires off, beats you with his hands and has a natural lower center of gravity.  Next thing you know, being that tall now works against you.  

- Quick feet, ran a 1.75 10 yard split.  

- Quick eyes.  Seems to make sound decisions in pass pro and does it decisively.   Examples below.

Against Texas

Horns are showing a 6 man pressure and an interesting front to get their edge(s) 1 on 1 looks.  If one of those interior 2pt rushers was down in a stance, it would almost look like some bastardized version of a double eagle set.   Your tip to coverage/rush can be a few things.   But even in a 3rd and 16, you're not going to leave 2 DB's and a single high 22 yards off the ball to cover a 3 by set with the most perimeter receiver being a 6'5 255lb TE.     Chances are that field edge rush is going to jump and "wall" or carry that #3.   Still, I didn't see any protection adjustment by the QB, so the center (Deats) likely makes the call(s).  

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At the snap you get the boundary edge and both the 3pt lineman firing off.  Deats extends his long wingspan to make contact on the nose (0, playing a sliiiiiight shade 1)  but as he's doing this, his eyes are trailing to his right, working to identify any other oncoming rush from those 2 pointers.

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The backers end up dropping out along with the field edge.  The boundary DB has the green to track the back or pressure if he stays in.   But Deats has passed off the 1 tech who slants to the RG and RT, he then helps the LG pick up the other 1 tech.    No panic in worrying about the rush, calm cool and collected.  Good use of his long arms to help with his decision making in terms of speed.   It isn't a short set (jump set, depending on who is calling it what) by him per-say, especially in a vertical blocking scheme.  (vert schemes more popular with your air-raid offenses, think... Mike Leach)  But he's not dropping into pass pro before he creates his well leveraged contact first.   It's good football.

All good and well, until we got to Okie State on a couple things. 

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Before all that, I want to say how dope it was seeing the Maryland I again.    Or whatever this particular flavor of Maryland I is.   It's almost like a 2x1 22 set, but removed the more traditionally understood Y and put him as the 1 back.   When we ran the Mary, it was 2TE  3RB's.   Now you get WR's in reduced/tight splits and 3 RB's.  I suppose it just gives you more options in the passing game, which is perfectly cool, while lending itself to more smash mouth at the same time.   Neat twist.  

------------------------------

Anywho.  

A gun with a split back formation, with the two fast threats and the inline TE to the same side.   This gives your (technically) quads to one side.   4 eligible receivers to the field, that is.  

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At the snap, it makes for an interesting call attacking defensive leverage and alignment/numbers.  Because when you find yourself facing a zone step to the left, the QB making a read to the field edge (looks like it) then a give to one of the backs, you now have every eligible skill player on the field heading in one direction to out leverage your defender numbers to that side. 

You also see the center (Dawson) getting freely and quickly to the 2nd level.   When you have an outside call like this on and you're a lineman, at this point all you really want is to pick off whatever backside pursuit that comes across your face.   Because if your natural leverage has created 1 on 1 blocks playside, the only things that can hurt your are those blocks failing, or someone flying in from backside to track it down.  

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For reasons I don't fully understand in his decision making, instead of attacking the backer directly in front of him, Dawson instead turns back to his left to help get a block on....  absolutely nobody?   Had he went after the middle LB in the previous frame to this, he might not be able to get the whole piece of him, but you'd at least make him change his pursuit angle or slow down his pursuit.  

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Instead, the above was the result.  What could have been an even bigger gain was tracked down for only a handful of yards by that same middle backer Deaton failed to pull the trigger on.    Blocks failing, or backside pursuit.  The blockers to the playside did their job, sadly Dawson didn't have that extra in him to make this play potentially real big.

And this happened a couple more times on 2nd level blocks against both Okie State AND Texas.   In the latter, Dawson had the chance to announce his presence with authoritah early on against Demarvion Overshown, only to arrive with anything resembling bad intentions.      

Lesson learned here - when defenses  move to smaller personnel for speed, you take every opportunity you can to punish them with size and strength.   

- Deats has great physical ability, but something I question his decision making in the outside zone calls.     His pass pro isn't tested routinely because of the heavy passing/quick passing and screen nature of the Texas Tech offense.   But I can hang my hat on his decision making process when facing pressure vis a vis blocking assignments.  

I'm still up in the air about having a 6'4 center.  Especially one that doesn't like to maul smaller bodies every chance he has in the running game, but that is a mentality which can be instilled by culture and leadership.   I would fully expect Bito and Teller to see those same things when they sit down and go over film with him.   

This still behind us now, for a 7th round pick, I actually expect him to make this team and contribute.   His lower body still needs work on strength and anchor, but his frame is far more suited to the NFL than Nick Harris.    And because of that, I know he'll receive extra attention from the coaching staff.  There's promise here, and that's all I can ask of a late round pick.