The Good, the bad, and the Lucky vs Steelers.
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Haha. Yeah I did.
Recent history of our top 8 picks in the last three drafts 7 of those picks have been on the defensive side of the ball. Doesn’t seem like a team not making the effort.
No objection to the QB under the rookie scale point. Blame Baker he was supposed to be that guy.
What defensive breakdowns happened in the Panther game? Did our interior defensive line give Delpit and Company too much time to not communicate well?
so we let a TE roam free and Baker hit his easiest pass TD ever and we cleaned this up the following week? Second and third time something like this happens I point at the top.
Jets game when we blitzed three or four and dropped everyone back in coverage- what coverage did we actually employ? Looked broken to me. I thought we had keeping it all in front of the defense covered the past three years
None of this suggests I’m happy with what we have at DT.
Do you think Clowney is not good against the run?
I can work with a lot of that especially that 1st line.
Did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? No. Did Cleveland draft 1st overall in 2017? That draft KC drafted Patrick Mahomes at #10 overall while Houston drafted Watson at #12 overall. Just think, if this franchise knew how to draft a QB - you wouldn't have been burdened with Baker right? Before you inform me a lot of people had questions about both guys - are you supposed to draft best football in rear the view mirror? Or, are you supposed to have all the right staff employed so you can draft and develop a guy with best football ahead (like Josh Allen)?
Your question about did the IDL give Delpit enough time to communicate. If he prepared properly in the film room - communication could have began as early as the pre-snap read of the formation. Same with the corner on that side of the field for that matter. You just want to funnel any/al blame to just the DC, not the players or the position coaches or the HC for teaching moments. Again, we have a HC with more responsibility than just the offense. You said you go straight to the top to assign blame but you're not doing that. Parcels used to go up 1 side of Bill Belichick and down the other if there was something the Defense was doing that he wanted fixed immediately. And why? Because he was the Head Coach.
Are you missing Bob Slowik's 20 yard cushions or something. Let me tell you how much fun that was watching the Browns DBs schemed up to forfeit defending countless passes. We're all concerned about Woods at varying degrees; but to blame every single thing on him when guys need to communicate with each other and/or ask questions during the week of preparation on anything unclear.
I think Clowney is okay vrs the run which means I'm not sold he's always giving it his all out there. If you disagree that's fine - I'll bet others do as well. Again, the only bad ass I see on the DL is Myles Garrett who should be freeing up IDL/guys with the attention he commands. Not happening though.
Since it's only week 3 without much of a pre-season, let's see what happens moving forward...
I can work with a lot of that especially that 1st line.
Did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? No. Did Cleveland draft 1st overall in 2017? That draft KC drafted Patrick Mahomes at #10 overall while Houston drafted Watson at #12 overall. Just think, if this franchise knew how to draft a QB - you wouldn't have been burdened with Baker right? Before you inform me a lot of people had questions about both guys - are you supposed to draft best football in rear the view mirror? Or, are you supposed to have all the right staff employed so you can draft and develop a guy with best football ahead (like Josh Allen)?
Your question about did the IDL give Delpit enough time to communicate. If he prepared properly in the film room - communication could have began as early as the pre-snap read of the formation. Same with the corner on that side of the field for that matter. You just want to funnel any/al blame to just the DC, not the players or the position coaches or the HC for teaching moments. Again, we have a HC with more responsibility than just the offense. You said you go straight to the top to assign blame but you're not doing that. Parcels used to go up 1 side of Bill Belichick and down the other if there was something the Defense was doing that he wanted fixed immediately. And why? Because he was the Head Coach.
Are you missing Bob Slowik's 20 yard cushions or something. Let me tell you how much fun that was watching the Browns DBs schemed up to forfeit defending countless passes. We're all concerned about Woods at varying degrees; but to blame every single thing on him when guys need to communicate with each other and/or ask questions during the week of preparation on anything unclear.
I think Clowney is okay vrs the run which means I'm not sold he's always giving it his all out there. If you disagree that's fine - I'll bet others do as well. Again, the only bad ass I see on the DL is Myles Garrett who should be freeing up IDL/guys with the attention he commands. Not happening though.
Since it's only week 3 without much of a pre-season, let's see what happens moving forward...
“Did Baker draft himself #1 overall” - is this a defense of Baker like he didn’t ask for this?
Let me drive this home one more time….the Panther game and the broken coverages should have been a blessing for the next week. We won that game but had some critical bizarre broken coverages that you see at the HS level. These are the best Teaching moments correcting mistakes and miscommunication after a victory. Joe and Staff should have spent Sunday Night to Sunday Morning making sure the communication issues didn’t happen again. Joe was secondary coach for the Niners he wouldn’t step in here and be pissed after that Panther game. That is his responsibility and he was put on notice after the Panther game….Kevin’s too. I’m going to confidently say if this uneven defensive play continues and our offense continues to play well- I’ll guarantee it will be on Woods lap and not Kevin’s.
I don’t have hours to pour over Clowneys recent play but I will say he was widely known around the league as a very good run defender and kind of a disappointment in regard to pass rushing. The numbers and PFF scores and likely film support this assertion. I don’t know if his play/effort was lackluster against the Panthers and half of the Jets game.Our defense is averaging 4.1 yards per carry that’s good for 11th in league. Now I think we have some talent issues in our interior. We don’t have the perfect roster and at this position it is evident. And it is a surprise to me that we are getting attacked and beaten in our secondary. I’m disappointed in that group - based on the signings and draft capital we have placed an emphasis on infusing this team with fast twitchy cover guys.
Recruit for a better interior VS hold to account for multiple games of unacceptable blown coverages and generally underwhelming secondary play (i.e. fire Woods)...
Can't we just do both?Yes we should. It’s maddening because we have talent in the secondary and they can play better.
did you expect more from this secondary?
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I can work with a lot of that especially that 1st line.
Did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? No. Did Cleveland draft 1st overall in 2017? That draft KC drafted Patrick Mahomes at #10 overall while Houston drafted Watson at #12 overall. Just think, if this franchise knew how to draft a QB - you wouldn't have been burdened with Baker right? Before you inform me a lot of people had questions about both guys - are you supposed to draft best football in rear the view mirror? Or, are you supposed to have all the right staff employed so you can draft and develop a guy with best football ahead (like Josh Allen)?
Your question about did the IDL give Delpit enough time to communicate. If he prepared properly in the film room - communication could have began as early as the pre-snap read of the formation. Same with the corner on that side of the field for that matter. You just want to funnel any/al blame to just the DC, not the players or the position coaches or the HC for teaching moments. Again, we have a HC with more responsibility than just the offense. You said you go straight to the top to assign blame but you're not doing that. Parcels used to go up 1 side of Bill Belichick and down the other if there was something the Defense was doing that he wanted fixed immediately. And why? Because he was the Head Coach.
Are you missing Bob Slowik's 20 yard cushions or something. Let me tell you how much fun that was watching the Browns DBs schemed up to forfeit defending countless passes. We're all concerned about Woods at varying degrees; but to blame every single thing on him when guys need to communicate with each other and/or ask questions during the week of preparation on anything unclear.
I think Clowney is okay vrs the run which means I'm not sold he's always giving it his all out there. If you disagree that's fine - I'll bet others do as well. Again, the only bad ass I see on the DL is Myles Garrett who should be freeing up IDL/guys with the attention he commands. Not happening though.
Since it's only week 3 without much of a pre-season, let's see what happens moving forward...
“Did Baker draft himself #1 overall” - is this a defense of Baker like he didn’t ask for this?
Let me drive this home one more time….the Panther game and the broken coverages should have been a blessing for the next week. We won that game but had some critical bizarre broken coverages that you see at the HS level. These are the best Teaching moments correcting mistakes and miscommunication after a victory. Joe and Staff should have spent Sunday Night to Sunday Morning making sure the communication issues didn’t happen again. Joe was secondary coach for the Niners he wouldn’t step in here and be pissed after that Panther game. That is his responsibility and he was put on notice after the Panther game….Kevin’s too. I’m going to confidently say if this uneven defensive play continues and our offense continues to play well- I’ll guarantee it will be on Woods lap and not Kevin’s.
I don’t have hours to pour over Clowneys recent play but I will say he was widely known around the league as a very good run defender and kind of a disappointment in regard to pass rushing. The numbers and PFF scores and likely film support this assertion. I don’t know if his play/effort was lackluster against the Panthers and half of the Jets game.Our defense is averaging 4.1 yards per carry that’s good for 11th in league. Now I think we have some talent issues in our interior. We don’t have the perfect roster and at this position it is evident. And it is a surprise to me that we are getting attacked and beaten in our secondary. I’m disappointed in that group - based on the signings and draft capital we have placed an emphasis on infusing this team with fast twitchy cover guys.
Recruit for a better interior VS hold to account for multiple games of unacceptable blown coverages and generally underwhelming secondary play (i.e. fire Woods)...
Can't we just do both?Yes we should. It’s maddening because we have talent in the secondary and they can play better.
did you expect more from this secondary?
did you expect more from this secondary?
Affirmative!
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Nobody even challenges Newsome. ?
good stuff - that brings to mind a question. Newsome's huge helmet to the small of the back on Wilson -
shouldn't a flag been thrown for spearing/targeting/? IT wasn't though, I just don't know the rule.
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Injuries. Losing Anthony Walker is a critical blow and JOK getting hurt certainly makes it worse. Now, Walker is unfortunately gone for the year, whereas I expect JOK to only miss 1 game if any.
Special Teams. Guys, I'm over it. 12 men on the field on a FIELD GOAL, a blocked punt, a missed XP, and the worst onsides kick coverage ever. What the HELL is going on? And if I see another returner take the ball from the end zone with dillusions of grandeur, I'll gonna have a panic attack. ?
I'm sorry it was so long, I tried to leave lots for you guys. It's a simply terrific victory and we needed it. I never get tired of beating the Steelers! WOOF WOOF!
Nice job with that Jiggs!
I was reviewing all the ST blunders with someone online and I can't believe I forgot to mention the 12 men on the field. That really speaks volumes about my attention to detail these days. Man, the blocked punt and another missed extra point? We didn't spend a draft pick on York for him to be the next Steve Cox (only trusted for long FGs and putting kickoffs out of the end zone). We drafted York wanting him to be the next Phil Dawson (accurate from everywhere). I think he'll get that ironed out; but we need that now,,,
After JOK and Walker got injured - I thought Phillips, Fields and Takitaki played well for us.
A potential concern, our defense got gashed against the run in the 1st half. I'm guessing our next opponent will test this next week.
All that aside, I'm very happy this team began the week with a very necessary player's only meeting. It translated into a victory on the field for us to enjoy!
After JOK and Walker got injured - I thought Phillips, Fields and Takitaki played well for us.
This is a terrific point. I thought we were in deep trouble after those two went down, but our other backers made some plays! Now, I expect JOK to be back, but that's just wishful thinking and not born of anything factual.
What we really need is Myles and Clowney to both play, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Myles won't be able to MOVE for a week or two.
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I can work with a lot of that especially that 1st line.
Did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? No. Did Cleveland draft 1st overall in 2017? That draft KC drafted Patrick Mahomes at #10 overall while Houston drafted Watson at #12 overall. Just think, if this franchise knew how to draft a QB - you wouldn't have been burdened with Baker right? Before you inform me a lot of people had questions about both guys - are you supposed to draft best football in rear the view mirror? Or, are you supposed to have all the right staff employed so you can draft and develop a guy with best football ahead (like Josh Allen)?
Your question about did the IDL give Delpit enough time to communicate. If he prepared properly in the film room - communication could have began as early as the pre-snap read of the formation. Same with the corner on that side of the field for that matter. You just want to funnel any/al blame to just the DC, not the players or the position coaches or the HC for teaching moments. Again, we have a HC with more responsibility than just the offense. You said you go straight to the top to assign blame but you're not doing that. Parcels used to go up 1 side of Bill Belichick and down the other if there was something the Defense was doing that he wanted fixed immediately. And why? Because he was the Head Coach.
Are you missing Bob Slowik's 20 yard cushions or something. Let me tell you how much fun that was watching the Browns DBs schemed up to forfeit defending countless passes. We're all concerned about Woods at varying degrees; but to blame every single thing on him when guys need to communicate with each other and/or ask questions during the week of preparation on anything unclear.
I think Clowney is okay vrs the run which means I'm not sold he's always giving it his all out there. If you disagree that's fine - I'll bet others do as well. Again, the only bad ass I see on the DL is Myles Garrett who should be freeing up IDL/guys with the attention he commands. Not happening though.
Since it's only week 3 without much of a pre-season, let's see what happens moving forward...
“Did Baker draft himself #1 overall” - is this a defense of Baker like he didn’t ask for this?
Let me drive this home one more time….the Panther game and the broken coverages should have been a blessing for the next week. We won that game but had some critical bizarre broken coverages that you see at the HS level. These are the best Teaching moments correcting mistakes and miscommunication after a victory. Joe and Staff should have spent Sunday Night to Sunday Morning making sure the communication issues didn’t happen again. Joe was secondary coach for the Niners he wouldn’t step in here and be pissed after that Panther game. That is his responsibility and he was put on notice after the Panther game….Kevin’s too. I’m going to confidently say if this uneven defensive play continues and our offense continues to play well- I’ll guarantee it will be on Woods lap and not Kevin’s.
I don’t have hours to pour over Clowneys recent play but I will say he was widely known around the league as a very good run defender and kind of a disappointment in regard to pass rushing. The numbers and PFF scores and likely film support this assertion. I don’t know if his play/effort was lackluster against the Panthers and half of the Jets game.Our defense is averaging 4.1 yards per carry that’s good for 11th in league. Now I think we have some talent issues in our interior. We don’t have the perfect roster and at this position it is evident. And it is a surprise to me that we are getting attacked and beaten in our secondary. I’m disappointed in that group - based on the signings and draft capital we have placed an emphasis on infusing this team with fast twitchy cover guys.
Recruit for a better interior VS hold to account for multiple games of unacceptable blown coverages and generally underwhelming secondary play (i.e. fire Woods)...
Can't we just do both?Yes we should. It’s maddening because we have talent in the secondary and they can play better.
did you expect more from this secondary?
“Did Baker draft himself #1 overall” - is this a defense of Baker like he didn’t ask for this?
Yes we should. It’s maddening because we have talent in the secondary and they can play better.
did you expect more from this secondary?
You're missing by a mile. Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him. You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you - nobody else. Not good enough = not good enough. We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right? Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead? That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall. Let the countless excuses begin.... KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.
I like our Corners a lot. I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet. Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA. We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward. Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together. They gotta prepare like professionals. Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
“Did Baker draft himself #1 overall” - is this a defense of Baker like he didn’t ask for this?
Yes we should. It’s maddening because we have talent in the secondary and they can play better.
did you expect more from this secondary?
You're missing by a mile. Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him. You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you - nobody else. Not good enough = not good enough. We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right? Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead? That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall. Let the countless excuses begin.... KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.
I like our Corners a lot. I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet. Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA. We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward. Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together. They gotta prepare like professionals. Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.
You're missing by a mile. Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him. You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you - nobody else. Not good enough = not good enough. We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right? Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead? That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall. Let the countless excuses begin.... KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.
I like our Corners a lot. I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet. Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA. We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward. Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together. They gotta prepare like professionals. Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.
With Joe Woods running the D... I don't see this becoming a Pass Rushing team anytime soon.... This is more like Bill Arnsparger on steroids prevent D. I'm so sick of everything being "Nickel" "Nickel" "Nickel"
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
You're missing by a mile. Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him. You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you - nobody else. Not good enough = not good enough. We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right? Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead? That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall. Let the countless excuses begin.... KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.
I like our Corners a lot. I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet. Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA. We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward. Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together. They gotta prepare like professionals. Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.
With Joe Woods running the D... I don't see this becoming a Pass Rushing team anytime soon.... This is more like Bill Arnsparger on steroids prevent D. I'm so sick of everything being "Nickel" "Nickel" "Nickel"
With Joe Woods running the D... I don't see this becoming a Pass Rushing team anytime soon.... This is more like Bill Arnsparger on steroids prevent D. I'm so sick of everything being "Nickel" "Nickel" "Nickel"
We will when we get four Pro Bowlers upfront. I will not hold my breath in the salary cap era for that
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“Did Baker draft himself #1 overall” - is this a defense of Baker like he didn’t ask for this?
Yes we should. It’s maddening because we have talent in the secondary and they can play better.
did you expect more from this secondary?
You're missing by a mile. Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him. You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you - nobody else. Not good enough = not good enough. We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right? Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead? That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall. Let the countless excuses begin.... KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.
I like our Corners a lot. I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet. Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA. We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward. Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together. They gotta prepare like professionals. Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.
You're missing by a mile. Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him. You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you - nobody else. Not good enough = not good enough. We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right? Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead? That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall. Let the countless excuses begin.... KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.
I like our Corners a lot. I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet. Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA. We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward. Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together. They gotta prepare like professionals. Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.
Not really but We are off on this QB tangent.
If we are going to quote Tia ( I’ll paraphrase and he can wordsmith) Josh Allen wouldn’t have worked out here or at least he had doubts he would have the success he has had in Buffalo with our organization. I would have passed on him too…he couldn’t put the ball where it needed to be. Watch some old Josh videos at WYO…lots of credit to the work he’s put in and the odds he overcame. Most scouts don’t like QBs that can’t put the ball where it needs to be…unless they believe the QBs mechanics can be fixed.
Not sure on Mahomes…Graham Harrell was arguably the Best Tech QB before Mahomes how did he work out. I can’t recall the scouting report other than he could throw the ball a mile. The Browns weren’t the only organization feeling something
I blame the Browns FO for bringing us Johnny Foosball.
Brandon Weeden.
Brady Quinn.
In Re. Johnson. So if he’s miscast in this defense or doesn’t have Aaron Donald to cave a pocket so he can do his job - do we blame the front office who may not have asked Joe what type of safety do you need? Do you think it was never discussed with Joe? Maybe Johnson got paid like some free agents and the drive and motivation took a nose dive? Wouldn’t a defensive staff try to put a key piece to this defense in areas where he can flourish? or does he just need a good defensive line and pass rush and he can play safety better? These are serious questions curious what you and others think.
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We are 2-1 because of our secondary.
That’s not to say the weak defensive interior will get taken advantage this week when Atlanta runs zone read plays.
But to date NFL is a bottom line game. Our overpriced secondary which I expected more from has let this team down. Pardon my focus here
We better step up here: London and Pitts are tough matchups. And we know Joe doesn’t like to bring pressure
We are 2-1 because of our secondary.
That’s not to say the weak defensive interior will get taken advantage this week when Atlanta runs zone read plays.
But to date NFL is a bottom line game. Our overpriced secondary which I expected more from has let this team down. Pardon my focus here
We better step up here: London and Pitts are tough matchups. And we know Joe doesn’t like to bring pressure
You did a nice job with that! Speaking of pressure, both Clowney and Garrett have injuries that will effect/limit their availability. When healthy, that's 2 former 1st overall picks edge rush talents I'm guessing Joe wants to rely on for the QB pressures so it doesn't mess with the numbers he likes to have at the back end. You just mentioned giant and talented targets like London and Pitts while Mariota has some mobility to worry about. If the Browns blitz somebody that doesn't get to the QB - they've just made those 2 guys even tougher to defend. Our guys gotta be communicating from the pre-snap formation on.
Not to give you the heebee geebees but now that there's an inevitable injury volume on our defense - this is where I want to see what Joe Woods is made of.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
You're missing by a mile. Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him. You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you - nobody else. Not good enough = not good enough. We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right? Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead? That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall. Let the countless excuses begin.... KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.
I like our Corners a lot. I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet. Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA. We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward. Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together. They gotta prepare like professionals. Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.
Not really but We are off on this QB tangent.
If we are going to quote Tia ( I’ll paraphrase and he can wordsmith) Josh Allen wouldn’t have worked out here or at least he had doubts he would have the success he has had in Buffalo with our organization. I would have passed on him too…he couldn’t put the ball where it needed to be. Watch some old Josh videos at WYO…lots of credit to the work he’s put in and the odds he overcame. Most scouts don’t like QBs that can’t put the ball where it needs to be…unless they believe the QBs mechanics can be fixed.
Not sure on Mahomes…Graham Harrell was arguably the Best Tech QB before Mahomes how did he work out. I can’t recall the scouting report other than he could throw the ball a mile. The Browns weren’t the only organization feeling something
I blame the Browns FO for bringing us Johnny Foosball.
Brandon Weeden.
Brady Quinn.
In Re. Johnson. So if he’s miscast in this defense or doesn’t have Aaron Donald to cave a pocket so he can do his job - do we blame the front office who may not have asked Joe what type of safety do you need? Do you think it was never discussed with Joe? Maybe Johnson got paid like some free agents and the drive and motivation took a nose dive? Wouldn’t a defensive staff try to put a key piece to this defense in areas where he can flourish? or does he just need a good defensive line and pass rush and he can play safety better? These are serious questions curious what you and others think.
Not really but We are off on this QB tangent.
If we are going to quote Tia ( I’ll paraphrase and he can wordsmith) Josh Allen wouldn’t have worked out here or at least he had doubts he would have the success he has had in Buffalo with our organization. I would have passed on him too…he couldn’t put the ball where it needed to be. Watch some old Josh videos at WYO…lots of credit to the work he’s put in and the odds he overcame. Most scouts don’t like QBs that can’t put the ball where it needs to be…unless they believe the QBs mechanics can be fixed.
You weren't here yet; but I didn't want Josh Allen either. I've mentioned it numerous times. Do you know what you, me and Tia have in common? None of us are being paid to work in an NFL FO regardless of how passionate and educated we are about the Browns and football. Buffalo didn't draft the rear view mirror. They looked at flaws they felt they could change to go in tandem with the sum of strengths that intrigued them. More specifically, they planned on committing to their investment like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, who didn't start as a rookie. The only time this franchise drafted a QB capable of consistently leading us deep into the playoffs was when they drafted Bernie Kosar in the Supplemental Draft way back in 1985.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Not really but We are off on this QB tangent.
If we are going to quote Tia ( I’ll paraphrase and he can wordsmith) Josh Allen wouldn’t have worked out here or at least he had doubts he would have the success he has had in Buffalo with our organization. I would have passed on him too…he couldn’t put the ball where it needed to be. Watch some old Josh videos at WYO…lots of credit to the work he’s put in and the odds he overcame. Most scouts don’t like QBs that can’t put the ball where it needs to be…unless they believe the QBs mechanics can be fixed.
You weren't here yet; but I didn't want Josh Allen either. I've mentioned it numerous times. Do you know what you, me and Tia have in common? None of us are being paid to work in an NFL FO regardless of how passionate and educated we are about the Browns and football. Buffalo didn't draft the rear view mirror. They looked at flaws they felt they could change to go in tandem with the sum of strengths that intrigued them. More specifically, they planned on committing to their investment like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, who didn't start as a rookie. The only time this franchise drafted a QB capable of consistently leading us deep into the playoffs was when they drafted Bernie Kosar in the Supplemental Draft way back in 1985.
You weren't here yet; but I didn't want Josh Allen either. I've mentioned it numerous times. Do you know what you, me and Tia have in common? None of us are being paid to work in an NFL FO regardless of how passionate and educated we are about the Browns and football. Buffalo didn't draft the rear view mirror. They looked at flaws they felt they could change to go in tandem with the sum of strengths that intrigued them. More specifically, they planned on committing to their investment like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, who didn't start as a rookie. The only time this franchise drafted a QB capable of consistently leading us deep into the playoffs was when they drafted Bernie Kosar in the Supplemental Draft way back in 1985.
If Buffalo had the #1 overall pick in that draft, do you think they would have still taken Allen?
I have doubts.
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I can work with a lot of that especially that 1st line.
Did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? No. Did Cleveland draft 1st overall in 2017? That draft KC drafted Patrick Mahomes at #10 overall while Houston drafted Watson at #12 overall. Just think, if this franchise knew how to draft a QB - you wouldn't have been burdened with Baker right? Before you inform me a lot of people had questions about both guys - are you supposed to draft best football in rear the view mirror? Or, are you supposed to have all the right staff employed so you can draft and develop a guy with best football ahead (like Josh Allen)?
Your question about did the IDL give Delpit enough time to communicate. If he prepared properly in the film room - communication could have began as early as the pre-snap read of the formation. Same with the corner on that side of the field for that matter. You just want to funnel any/al blame to just the DC, not the players or the position coaches or the HC for teaching moments. Again, we have a HC with more responsibility than just the offense. You said you go straight to the top to assign blame but you're not doing that. Parcels used to go up 1 side of Bill Belichick and down the other if there was something the Defense was doing that he wanted fixed immediately. And why? Because he was the Head Coach.
Are you missing Bob Slowik's 20 yard cushions or something. Let me tell you how much fun that was watching the Browns DBs schemed up to forfeit defending countless passes. We're all concerned about Woods at varying degrees; but to blame every single thing on him when guys need to communicate with each other and/or ask questions during the week of preparation on anything unclear.
I think Clowney is okay vrs the run which means I'm not sold he's always giving it his all out there. If you disagree that's fine - I'll bet others do as well. Again, the only bad ass I see on the DL is Myles Garrett who should be freeing up IDL/guys with the attention he commands. Not happening though.
Since it's only week 3 without much of a pre-season, let's see what happens moving forward...
“Did Baker draft himself #1 overall” - is this a defense of Baker like he didn’t ask for this?
Let me drive this home one more time….the Panther game and the broken coverages should have been a blessing for the next week. We won that game but had some critical bizarre broken coverages that you see at the HS level. These are the best Teaching moments correcting mistakes and miscommunication after a victory. Joe and Staff should have spent Sunday Night to Sunday Morning making sure the communication issues didn’t happen again. Joe was secondary coach for the Niners he wouldn’t step in here and be pissed after that Panther game. That is his responsibility and he was put on notice after the Panther game….Kevin’s too. I’m going to confidently say if this uneven defensive play continues and our offense continues to play well- I’ll guarantee it will be on Woods lap and not Kevin’s.
I don’t have hours to pour over Clowneys recent play but I will say he was widely known around the league as a very good run defender and kind of a disappointment in regard to pass rushing. The numbers and PFF scores and likely film support this assertion. I don’t know if his play/effort was lackluster against the Panthers and half of the Jets game.Our defense is averaging 4.1 yards per carry that’s good for 11th in league. Now I think we have some talent issues in our interior. We don’t have the perfect roster and at this position it is evident. And it is a surprise to me that we are getting attacked and beaten in our secondary. I’m disappointed in that group - based on the signings and draft capital we have placed an emphasis on infusing this team with fast twitchy cover guys.
Recruit for a better interior VS hold to account for multiple games of unacceptable blown coverages and generally underwhelming secondary play (i.e. fire Woods)...
Can't we just do both?Yes we should. It’s maddening because we have talent in the secondary and they can play better.
did you expect more from this secondary?
did you expect more from this secondary?
Yes, I did/do.
I think with today's NFL, you need an abundance of good CBs, Safeties, and even hybrid-type LBs (JOK, Minkah for example). You just don't see a David Fulcher, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott at Safety anymore.
All these 5 wide sets, you need speed. It looks to me the Browns have gone that route....they need better results in coverage.
Coming off a mini-bye, these communication issues as they call it, should be minimized. The players need to focus.
Like others wrote, the Falcons do possess some threats. A mobile QB, Cordarrelle Patterson, Pitts, London. It's going to pose a challenge.
Karlis Missed -
You weren't here yet; but I didn't want Josh Allen either. I've mentioned it numerous times. Do you know what you, me and Tia have in common? None of us are being paid to work in an NFL FO regardless of how passionate and educated we are about the Browns and football. Buffalo didn't draft the rear view mirror. They looked at flaws they felt they could change to go in tandem with the sum of strengths that intrigued them. More specifically, they planned on committing to their investment like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, who didn't start as a rookie. The only time this franchise drafted a QB capable of consistently leading us deep into the playoffs was when they drafted Bernie Kosar in the Supplemental Draft way back in 1985.
If Buffalo had the #1 overall pick in that draft, do you think they would have still taken Allen?
I have doubts.
If Buffalo had the #1 overall pick in that draft, do you think they would have still taken Allen?
I have doubts.
Great question! I'd hate to think they would have been as dumb as your buddy Flugel. My QB resume should have me forbidden to project superstar QBs.
I think someone important there fell in love with the things me and others were saying/thinking "don't let all that arm strength stuff fool you if he couldn't led his previous team to victory over the less competitive DI opponents. His accuracy didn't dazzle anybody at the college level so how is it going to be easier at the much more complex level in the NFL?" Has Allen's life at QB in the NFL on game day been easier or more difficult than it was at Wyoming? And why was this made possible? The team that did the research came up with a plan understanding there may be some growing pains in the 1st year or 2. Baker actually started off better than him as he temporarily set the record for TD passes for a rookie QB despite only 13 starts on a team coming off 0-16 football. How many different OCs, QB Coaches, and Head Coaches with different offenses did he get in his 1st few years? I don't think he's as good today as he was as a rookie meaning? Who in our FO/Ownership researched the upside vrs best football in the rear view mirror? And WHO up top here committed the development plan Buffalo was willing to do for their QB? Would this franchise have been smart enough to stick with a guy like Troy Aikman or Steve Young given their very humble NFL beginnings if they came along today? Would our fanbase?
Then we have Oklahoma QBs (Mayfield and Murray) that constantly threw to wide open guys (with plenty of time to do so) not finding NFL life nearly that easy. And Sam Darnold told people he was watching "The 13 Ghosts" from the pocket. Dutch, as fans, we don't have to get deep enough in research to protect ourselves from that kind of outcome. That said, an NFL FO does have to do extensive research. They need to dig deep if they're going QB. They can't wait for hindsight 20/20 to tell them Mayfield, Darnold, and Murray already played their best football in college.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
did you expect more from this secondary?
Yes, I did/do.
I think with today's NFL, you need an abundance of good CBs, Safeties, and even hybrid-type LBs (JOK, Minkah for example). You just don't see a David Fulcher, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott at Safety anymore.
All these 5 wide sets, you need speed. It looks to me the Browns have gone that route....they need better results in coverage.
Coming off a mini-bye, these communication issues as they call it, should be minimized. The players need to focus.
Like others wrote, the Falcons do possess some threats. A mobile QB, Cordarrelle Patterson, Pitts, London. It's going to pose a challenge.
Yes, I did/do.
I think with today's NFL, you need an abundance of good CBs, Safeties, and even hybrid-type LBs (JOK, Minkah for example). You just don't see a David Fulcher, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott at Safety anymore.
All these 5 wide sets, you need speed. It looks to me the Browns have gone that route....they need better results in coverage.
Coming off a mini-bye, these communication issues as they call it, should be minimized. The players need to focus.
Like others wrote, the Falcons do possess some threats. A mobile QB, Cordarrelle Patterson, Pitts, London. It's going to pose a challenge.
Well said Bob! Yes, you need speed but you can't have guys with hollow-domes back there. If they're not smart enough to ask their coaches about things they're confused about during the week of preparation or communicate with teammates on game day, I'm not gonna pretend the only problem is Joe Woods. We won a playoff game with him as our DC on the same day our OC actually called the plays. The Defense produced multiple turnovers that day while the Browns scored 48 points.
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Yes, I did/do.
I think with today's NFL, you need an abundance of good CBs, Safeties, and even hybrid-type LBs (JOK, Minkah for example). You just don't see a David Fulcher, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott at Safety anymore.
All these 5 wide sets, you need speed. It looks to me the Browns have gone that route....they need better results in coverage.
Coming off a mini-bye, these communication issues as they call it, should be minimized. The players need to focus.
Like others wrote, the Falcons do possess some threats. A mobile QB, Cordarrelle Patterson, Pitts, London. It's going to pose a challenge.
Well said Bob! Yes, you need speed but you can't have guys with hollow-domes back there. If they're not smart enough to ask their coaches about things they're confused about during the week of preparation or communicate with teammates on game day, I'm not gonna pretend the only problem is Joe Woods. We won a playoff game with him as our DC on the same day our OC actually called the plays. The Defense produced multiple turnovers that day while the Browns scored 48 points.
Well said Bob! Yes, you need speed but you can't have guys with hollow-domes back there. If they're not smart enough to ask their coaches about things they're confused about during the week of preparation or communicate with teammates on game day, I'm not gonna pretend the only problem is Joe Woods. We won a playoff game with him as our DC on the same day our OC actually called the plays. The Defense produced multiple turnovers that day while the Browns scored 48 points.
Yes & yes.
I'm not a huge Woods guy either, BUT he did make adjustments last year, the year before even with COVID depleted rosters ( like many DCs I suppose). I think we all broke our TVs after the Chargers game, then they played well the rest of the year in 2021.
I'm confident our NFL staff can patch this up. Probably 7 or 8 out of 10. Woods has been around.
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You're missing by a mile. Again, did Baker draft himself at #1 overall? I'm not asking for 50 reasons why you hate the guy or even more reasons why I was wrong about him. You play a lot of Dodge Ball with where to assign blame. Our FO and Owner brought Baker to you - nobody else. Not good enough = not good enough. We went 0-16 to make him the alleged solution with a 1st overall pick right? Just yes or no here - could we have drafted Josh Allen instead? That was 1 year after we could have draft Mahomes or Watson with our previous #1 overall. Let the countless excuses begin.... KC and Buffalo thoroughly researched their guys to be sure it was someone they were prepared/committed to develop. Consequently, they deserve to be elite.
I like our Corners a lot. I've heard Delpit is talented by he's very injury prone and I'm not sure how smart he is yet. Tia gave a good reason why Johnson was more effective in LA. We're gonna need a pass rush to help them out moving forward. Let's hope we have depth at edge rush. I'm hopeful these guys will pull together. They gotta prepare like professionals. Teams with ideal veteran Team Leaders help show younger guys this.
With Joe Woods running the D... I don't see this becoming a Pass Rushing team anytime soon.... This is more like Bill Arnsparger on steroids prevent D. I'm so sick of everything being "Nickel" "Nickel" "Nickel"
With Joe Woods running the D... I don't see this becoming a Pass Rushing team anytime soon.... This is more like Bill Arnsparger on steroids prevent D. I'm so sick of everything being "Nickel" "Nickel" "Nickel"
So who are the Superstar Pass Rushers taking advantage of all the attention Myles Garrett is getting Nicks? Did Clowney play last week? What Superstars inside is Joe Woods failing to understand here? Give me a name. Just 1. You're bitching just to bitch.
Bill Parcels once said if you're gonna ask me to cook the meal - then you should let me buy the groceries. If Garrett and Clowney don't play this week, we're pretty much attacking with pawns whether some of you guys want to pretend otherwise or not. YES, we've invested heavily in the DBs at the back end; and we have 2 great edge rushers when/if healthy. We also lost 2 starting LBers last week right? When that happens during the game - the replacements have enough to think about let alone adding a zone blitz coverage adjustment to that. Buffalo added Von Miller so they don't have worry about zone blitz coverage adjustments. Teams are turning to that because like Bob806 mentioned offenses are already challenging the numbers at the back end with multiple Receivers. Think of the Lindy Infante mentality (multiple receivers spread) when he knew teams wanted to blitz our cement shoe'd hero Bernie. "Wanna blitz us? Welcome to Hell!"
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
We are 2-1 because of our secondary.
That’s not to say the weak defensive interior will get taken advantage this week when Atlanta runs zone read plays.
But to date NFL is a bottom line game. Our overpriced secondary which I expected more from has let this team down. Pardon my focus here
We better step up here: London and Pitts are tough matchups. And we know Joe doesn’t like to bring pressure
You did a nice job with that! Speaking of pressure, both Clowney and Garrett have injuries that will effect/limit their availability. When healthy, that's 2 former 1st overall picks edge rush talents I'm guessing Joe wants to rely on for the QB pressures so it doesn't mess with the numbers he likes to have at the back end. You just mentioned giant and talented targets like London and Pitts while Mariota has some mobility to worry about. If the Browns blitz somebody that doesn't get to the QB - they've just made those 2 guys even tougher to defend. Our guys gotta be communicating from the pre-snap formation on.
Not to give you the heebee geebees but now that there's an inevitable injury volume on our defense - this is where I want to see what Joe Woods is made of.
You did a nice job with that! Speaking of pressure, both Clowney and Garrett have injuries that will effect/limit their availability. When healthy, that's 2 former 1st overall picks edge rush talents I'm guessing Joe wants to rely on for the QB pressures so it doesn't mess with the numbers he likes to have at the back end. You just mentioned giant and talented targets like London and Pitts while Mariota has some mobility to worry about. If the Browns blitz somebody that doesn't get to the QB - they've just made those 2 guys even tougher to defend. Our guys gotta be communicating from the pre-snap formation on.
Not to give you the heebee geebees but now that there's an inevitable injury volume on our defense - this is where I want to see what Joe Woods is made of.
On the flipside, you disrupt a happy feet QB like Mariota with pressure. We have a tendency to sit back and drop 7 and give journeyman QBs time to process coverage and look good.
And if your front 4 can’t get to the QB you need to bring an extra guy or two…I don’t see that adjustment enough with this defense. If you are dropping seven or eight I gotta see more contested throws in the secondary. And my goodness if you are going bend all game you cannot get beat deep like we have.
This is a really tough game. Patterson is great at picking his spots in zone runs. I mentioned the matchup problems with Pitts and London becomes a huge problem in the redzone. Drake London was the best WR last year in CFB before he got hurt with a bad QB. The Falcons had problems protecting slow footed Ryan last year. This year they are running the ball well and Mariota is making just enough plays with his feet and arm. Going way back…He’s historically been a QB that wilts under pressure. The Falcons are gonna run the ball and scheme up plays for their two big playmakers and then don’t forget they have their undersized slot guy who is dangerous. This is our toughest game to date.
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Not really but We are off on this QB tangent.
If we are going to quote Tia ( I’ll paraphrase and he can wordsmith) Josh Allen wouldn’t have worked out here or at least he had doubts he would have the success he has had in Buffalo with our organization. I would have passed on him too…he couldn’t put the ball where it needed to be. Watch some old Josh videos at WYO…lots of credit to the work he’s put in and the odds he overcame. Most scouts don’t like QBs that can’t put the ball where it needs to be…unless they believe the QBs mechanics can be fixed.
You weren't here yet; but I didn't want Josh Allen either. I've mentioned it numerous times. Do you know what you, me and Tia have in common? None of us are being paid to work in an NFL FO regardless of how passionate and educated we are about the Browns and football. Buffalo didn't draft the rear view mirror. They looked at flaws they felt they could change to go in tandem with the sum of strengths that intrigued them. More specifically, they planned on committing to their investment like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, who didn't start as a rookie. The only time this franchise drafted a QB capable of consistently leading us deep into the playoffs was when they drafted Bernie Kosar in the Supplemental Draft way back in 1985.
You weren't here yet; but I didn't want Josh Allen either. I've mentioned it numerous times. Do you know what you, me and Tia have in common? None of us are being paid to work in an NFL FO regardless of how passionate and educated we are about the Browns and football. Buffalo didn't draft the rear view mirror. They looked at flaws they felt they could change to go in tandem with the sum of strengths that intrigued them. More specifically, they planned on committing to their investment like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, who didn't start as a rookie. The only time this franchise drafted a QB capable of consistently leading us deep into the playoffs was when they drafted Bernie Kosar in the Supplemental Draft way back in 1985.
All true. I supported the Watson trade based on some of these points you make. We haven’t shown the capability to be patient with a drafted QB nor have we had the foresight to pick them well.
The price wasn’t too high.And above everything else you need an elite QB. Not an average QB with a great line and running game and good supporting cast.
^^^thats what we had and folks are/were okay with .500 football most years here with a playoff appearance every year or so.
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With Joe Woods running the D... I don't see this becoming a Pass Rushing team anytime soon.... This is more like Bill Arnsparger on steroids prevent D. I'm so sick of everything being "Nickel" "Nickel" "Nickel"
So who are the Superstar Pass Rushers taking advantage of all the attention Myles Garrett is getting Nicks? Did Clowney play last week? What Superstars inside is Joe Woods failing to understand here? Give me a name. Just 1. You're bitching just to bitch.
Bill Parcels once said if you're gonna ask me to cook the meal - then you should let me buy the groceries. If Garrett and Clowney don't play this week, we're pretty much attacking with pawns whether some of you guys want to pretend otherwise or not. YES, we've invested heavily in the DBs at the back end; and we have 2 great edge rushers when/if healthy. We also lost 2 starting LBers last week right? When that happens during the game - the replacements have enough to think about let alone adding a zone blitz coverage adjustment to that. Buffalo added Von Miller so they don't have worry about zone blitz coverage adjustments. Teams are turning to that because like Bob806 mentioned offenses are already challenging the numbers at the back end with multiple Receivers. Think of the Lindy Infante mentality (multiple receivers spread) when he knew teams wanted to blitz our cement shoe'd hero Bernie. "Wanna blitz us? Welcome to Hell!"
So who are the Superstar Pass Rushers taking advantage of all the attention Myles Garrett is getting Nicks? Did Clowney play last week? What Superstars inside is Joe Woods failing to understand here? Give me a name. Just 1. You're bitching just to bitch.
Bill Parcels once said if you're gonna ask me to cook the meal - then you should let me buy the groceries. If Garrett and Clowney don't play this week, we're pretty much attacking with pawns whether some of you guys want to pretend otherwise or not. YES, we've invested heavily in the DBs at the back end; and we have 2 great edge rushers when/if healthy. We also lost 2 starting LBers last week right? When that happens during the game - the replacements have enough to think about let alone adding a zone blitz coverage adjustment to that. Buffalo added Von Miller so they don't have worry about zone blitz coverage adjustments. Teams are turning to that because like Bob806 mentioned offenses are already challenging the numbers at the back end with multiple Receivers. Think of the Lindy Infante mentality (multiple receivers spread) when he knew teams wanted to blitz our cement shoe'd hero Bernie. "Wanna blitz us? Welcome to Hell!"
All I'm saying Tom.. Is even with a full cupboard... Joe Woods continues to under utilize the talent available to him... He's a dud... Although to his credit... He finally started calling more man coverage last week.. So that's a positive... Zone defenses are a great QB's best friend next to blitzes. I get it... Guys are hurt... You are forced into other adjustments... I'm sick and tired of seeing average QB's get away with murder in the 2nd half of games. Someone here said Joe Woods also came here as a secondary Specialist... Since he's been here... Our secondary has played like S H I T!
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
If Buffalo had the #1 overall pick in that draft, do you think they would have still taken Allen?
I have doubts.
Great question! I'd hate to think they would have been as dumb as your buddy Flugel. My QB resume should have me forbidden to project superstar QBs.
I think someone important there fell in love with the things me and others were saying/thinking "don't let all that arm strength stuff fool you if he couldn't led his previous team to victory over the less competitive DI opponents. His accuracy didn't dazzle anybody at the college level so how is it going to be easier at the much more complex level in the NFL?" Has Allen's life at QB in the NFL on game day been easier or more difficult than it was at Wyoming? And why was this made possible? The team that did the research came up with a plan understanding there may be some growing pains in the 1st year or 2. Baker actually started off better than him as he temporarily set the record for TD passes for a rookie QB despite only 13 starts on a team coming off 0-16 football. How many different OCs, QB Coaches, and Head Coaches with different offenses did he get in his 1st few years? I don't think he's as good today as he was as a rookie meaning? Who in our FO/Ownership researched the upside vrs best football in the rear view mirror? And WHO up top here committed the development plan Buffalo was willing to do for their QB? Would this franchise have been smart enough to stick with a guy like Troy Aikman or Steve Young given their very humble NFL beginnings if they came along today? Would our fanbase?
Then we have Oklahoma QBs (Mayfield and Murray) that constantly threw to wide open guys (with plenty of time to do so) not finding NFL life nearly that easy. And Sam Darnold told people he was watching "The 13 Ghosts" from the pocket. Dutch, as fans, we don't have to get deep enough in research to protect ourselves from that kind of outcome. That said, an NFL FO does have to do extensive research. They need to dig deep if they're going QB. They can't wait for hindsight 20/20 to tell them Mayfield, Darnold, and Murray already played their best football in college.
Great question! I'd hate to think they would have been as dumb as your buddy Flugel. My QB resume should have me forbidden to project superstar QBs.
You and me both. I've had a few good predictions on QBs, but have missed spectacularily on some too. The humorous thing about the infamous 2018 QB Battle Royale of Debate is that I remember talking to my buddy (the guy I went to the Steelers game with last Thursday night) right before the draft and admitting that on the eve of the selection, I had talked myself out of ALL the QBs available. ? Baker was 'meh' to me, a good floor, low ceiling type of guy. Darnold should have gone back to USC for another year. Rosen - my early favorite - didn't seem to even like playing football. Allen had fantastic tools and was built like what a prototypical AFC North QB should be, but couldn't hit water from a row boat and played crap competition. I never even considered Lamar Jackson, and hell, I still might be underestimating him. It seems like he's starting to get comfortable throwing from the pocket, which is a horrifying thing to contemplate as a Browns fan.
Then we have Oklahoma QBs (Mayfield and Murray) that constantly threw to wide open guys (with plenty of time to do so) not finding NFL life nearly that easy.
Completion percentage in college can be such a misleading stat. Baker, for example, I think (top of my head) completed something like 66% of his college passes, but I would not consider him a particularily accurate NFL QB. You know who completed passes at an even higher percentage in college?
Brandon Weeden.
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