Tale of the Tape - Browns vs Chargers

gumby73

@sdbacker80 said:

The Sirius XM radio crew (mainly Pat Kirwan & Jim Miller) cover the NFL draft and the lead up to it and post draft better than most. I wish they would just take over all day Papa and Weiss are HORRIBLE

They loved Jamaree Salyer and early returns appear that the Chargers got a good one and he will do fine for now.

Watched Chargers at Texans on nfl plus.. #68 J. Salyer

looks larger now than he played at Georgia. (chest mass) But he's not a 6'4" Tackle..Maybe 6'2 with same playing guard body type. Nice wide base outside

Chargers only run to his side with TE/WR help..Herbert not once rolled to Sayler's side//right roll-outs/ Eckler scores 2 TD's off RG/RT in 1st half

Salyer never saw any help in his pass pro.. Sayler is excellent at staying in his lane & passing guys off inside with no free runs at Herbert. Sayler shows good outside vision for a move to LT

You can get Salyer moving on his heels backwards with strong bull rushes(twice)

Salyer's real issue ?

Don't let him latch on to your chest plate.. His 33" Guard arms can be beaten on inside or outside swim techs. Got beat once on spin move inside.

Texans RB Pierce scored on a long TD run in the 2nd quarter off RT... When we pull Bitonio with Teller at Conklin's side... It's Chunt gone wild

Chargers defense is fast.. Blitzed Davis Mills from anywhere..Most success was Mills downfield passing.. because the underneath Chargers speed is excellent/tackle real well/ K.Mack just gets more pissed off, the more ya want to test him on 4th downs..he's always a beastly problem on gameday's

Orion

@gumby73 said:

It's Chunt gone wild

lol ... Chunt...

SdBacker80

@orion said:

lol ... Chunt...

I had some bourbon up my nose when I read…”Chunt gone wild”

SdBacker80

@orion said:

You can't let a QB count the house. Someone will be / or get open somewhere. They've gotta feel pressure.

Yes. And when we can’t win with four we got to bring a guy or guys. Joe doesn’t do this enough

jiggins7919

@orion said:

...and so, turning the page to the upcoming game against the Chargers...a game that is now a Must Win because we lost to the Jets (or Falcons, take your pick). If you lose to a team that you're supposed to beat, then you've gotta win the game you're supposed to lose to get back on track. So now we've gotta do that twice.

Our run D fell 10 spots...in one game...and we saw it happen on TV. Fortunately, the Chargers rank dead last in running the ball. So, because they're playing our D we can probably pro-rate them to middle of the league at rushing. But the party is over regarding the QB's we'll be facing. Sherbert has the Bolts leading the league in passing. Partly by necessity since they suck at running the ball.

Their OL does a good job of protecting Sherbert. So I'd have to assume that he'll have the time to pick us apart.

The two defenses are pretty even so once again we'll need our offense to save the day. We're going to have to score points. And not pass them up because we're greedy.

I fully expect Myles and Clowney to play. He won't have all day. Hopefully. Lol

tiamat63

@sdbacker80 said:

Yes. And when we can’t win with four we got to bring a guy or guys. Joe doesn’t do this enough

Before I give you the numbers, I want to ask - what is "enough", in your mind?

Let's just use the ATL game in a vaccuum being that we lost our pass rush for the first time this season then.

gumby73

@sdbacker80 said:

I had some bourbon up my nose when I read…”Chunt gone wild”

Opps!

failed to mention most of my tape scouting includes some mixture of Bacardi's ?

As soon as I watched the Pierce TD replay? twas my 1st voice reaction after.. Chunt's going to go wild

Top 3 Jim Donovan's can't says... More surprised I beat Flugel to using it

Good Day gents! Beautiful fall day for some grandson doubleheader baseball

We will need a better defensive effort, than our last one verse the Steelers.. No better time to find it than Sunday

Silver slayer

Chubb will have about 140 yds with about 8 minutes to go . He'll never see the field again.

Im curious why our best player never sees the field during crunch time?

hoorta

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Clowney is Coutney Brown

Not exactly Tom. If you want to say he's injury prone, you're 100% correct. Checking, in his 9 seasons, he's only played in every game once. The difference between him and Courtney is when Clowney is healthy enough to play he's actually pretty decent. Unlike "soft" Brown.

nickers

I'd like to think the Browns can win this game... But too many things need to go just right for them... I just get visions of Justin Herbert carving up Joe Woods Soft Zone D...

Orion

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Clowney is Coutney Brown

Brown was really good! Then he got that first injury. And he was never really good again. Clowney gets hurt every year and misses games. A substantial negative. But he usually gets back on the field where he still plays at quite a high level. He's a mercenary that we have to replace, and that we're lucky to have. Especially in light of the current condition of the front 7.

@nickers said:

I just get visions of Justin Herbert carving up Joe Woods Soft Zone D...

Yeah... that requires a pass rush. And if you're not getting one, you have to man up and blitz yourself a pass rush.

Orion

Chargers

Player	Position	Injuries	Practice Status	Game Status
Donald Parham	TE		Full Participation in Practice
Justin Herbert	QB		Full Participation in Practice
Josh Palmer	WR	Ankle	Full Participation in Practice	Questionable
Keenan Allen	WR	Hamstring	Did Not Participate In Practice	Out
Austin Johnson	DT		Full Participation in Practice
Dustin Hopkins	K	right Quadricep	Limited Participation in Practice	Questionable
Tre' McKitty	TE		Full Participation in Practice
Gerald Everett	TE		Full Participation in Practice
Zander Horvath	RB		Full Participation in Practice
Kyle Van Noy	LB		Limited Participation in Practice

Browns

Player	Position	Injuries	Practice Status	Game Status
Taven Bryan	DT	Hamstring	Limited Participation in Practice	Questionable
Harrison Bryant	TE		Full Participation in Practice
Jack Conklin	T		Full Participation in Practice
Jordan Elliott	DT		Limited Participation in Practice
Joe Haeg	T		Full Participation in Practice
Isaiah Thomas	DE		Full Participation in Practice
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah	LB		Limited Participation in Practice
Jadeveon Clowney	DE	Ankle	Limited Participation in Practice	Questionable
David Njoku	TE		Full Participation in Practice
Joel Bitonio	G		Full Participation in Practice
Denzel Ward	CB		Limited Participation in Practice
Amari Cooper	WR		Full Participation in Practice
Myles Garrett	DE		Limited Participation in Practice

SdBacker80

@tiamat63 said:

Before I give you the numbers, I want to ask - what is "enough", in your mind?

Let's just use the ATL game in a vaccuum being that we lost our pass rush for the first time this season then.

I don’t think that fair Joe has 2 1/2 years worth of work. Would the Jets game prove my point and maybe the Carolina game prove your point?

And Just tell us how aggressive Joe Woods is.

I’d like to win with the front four…who wouldn’t but when you can’t it is time to add a guy or two and get after the QB.

Flugel

@nickers said:

That has been his career in a nut shell , Lar... You love the talent... You just wish his availability was better than what it's been...

Sometimes I wonder if Clowney looks at the situation wherever he's at and thinks to himself "does this team really deserve me putting it all on the line every week or playing though injuries?" This is bad timing; but if he had TJ Watt's football heart - he could have been one of the best ever. I would have said "inner chest" but Watt has a torn pectoral sidelining him until he returns before it's healed. Like Watt, Myles Garrett also works his tail off conditioning himself. When guys put that kind of work in - they'll do anything they can to get back on the field even if they're playing at 75-80% of their ability. I could be wrong here - but I don't ever get the sense Clowney cares enough to play if he's only 75-80%. I hope he proves me wrong.

Orion

@flugel said:

I could be wrong here - but I don't ever get the sense Clowney cares enough to play if he's only 75-80%. I hope he proves me wrong.

He's a mercenary. Or, a Temp, in workplace terms. They're among the first to call in sick.

This is why I liked Sheldon Richardson so much. He played hurt, and played well while hurt. But....he was too much money. So, we're saving money on the interior of the DLine. And the Falcons approve of that investment strategy.

tiamat63

@sdbacker80 said:

I don’t think that fair Joe has 2 1/2 years worth of work. Would the Jets game prove my point and maybe the Carolina game prove your point?

And Just tell us how aggressive Joe Woods is.

I’d like to win with the front four…who wouldn’t but when you can’t it is time to add a guy or two and get after the QB.

- Neither, to be fair. The Jets game was an albatross of letting the pass rush work, while Carolina was a game that Wood's allowed the pass rush to work, but used designs he felt comfortable calling given his extensive familiarity with Baker. He really didn't need to call a single additional pressure that game, but as we saw - he did.

- I wouldn't call it 'aggressive'. I'd call it calculated, or silent rage. I don't see him bringing extra bodies when the Dline wins more than they lose in pass rush snaps, baring outlier examples (such as CAR) and he adjusted quite well against ATL... for him.

- In the 1st half, the Browns had a blitz rate of 28.57%. Last years league average was 23%.

- In the first 3 drives, the Browns showed a +1 box count against ATL over 3/4 of the time. That includes facing the Falcons 11 personnel when the field shrank with 30 yards.

This helps us find answers on why the available space vs the Browns on early downs. Most offenses, even with Marcus Mariota at QB, teams aren't going to run head first into a +1 box count unless they can absolutely own the LoS. In the dirty birds case, they can and did. But they weren't fully aware of that until later in the game. Plus, they were getting chunk plays early, but at the expense of the few times the Browns created a couple Havoc plays (a couple big TFL in the 1st half) So why not go ball action early against a defense that not only commits bodies to the running game, but also has problems with their IDL AND LB's? It's a win-win for opposing offenses and a lose-lose for the Browns. Because these coaches are timid on exposing the secondary by removing numbers in the passing game, being that we've had some piss poor communication at times. But we can't just sit back on our heels and not create positive numbers in the running game because of our Dline weakness.

Circles back around to what I said last April, and what I said just after this previous draft. The lifecycle of this defense is not good. Bad Dline ---> commit numbers from the secondary ---> more chances to be beat (risk/reward) ----> DB's look spotty because of it. Run fits and defense suffers, especially in the later portions of games because we don't have the talent or depth to go punch for punch the entire 60 minutes. --- > defensive breakdowns when things get grimey.

Orion

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Nobody has outplayed, stuffed or stifled the Browns.

You should've watched the 2nd half of the Falcons game. That is now the blueprint. Run the ball down our throats...because there ain't nothing we can do about it.

...now it's Off to play some chilly morning golf. Be back at game time. F-O-R-E!

Flugel

@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:

Tomato tomahto. He is fragile

Clowney's biggest football illness/injury is his heart. He's got all the tools except passion for the game and the team he plays for. Even when/if he shows up, he'll find the first excuse to leave the game. He's getting paid either way.

People can pretend coaching solves this issue but it doesn't. People can also pretend all we have to do is fire the entire coaching staff, peanut vendors and cleaning staff. Guess what though? The hiring criteria, or complete lack thereof, goes right up to Jimmy Haslam. See what kind of leadership he hired at Pilot. He's STILL going to be the one that hires the next HC - so what is it the "fire the HC today" enthusiasts think they will be getting different this time from Jimmy? Think about what your wishing for again. Do you miss 1-31 football over a 2 year stretch?

This isn't the Rooneys or Robert Kraft.

A Head Coach is only a symptom. The owner is the disease. If people don't get that - sit on Santa's lap and talk about the 1st thing that pops up.

Silver slayer

Stump Mitchell would be a definite keeper.

Dutch Oven

@flugel said:

@flugel said:

Do you miss 1-31 football over a 2 year stretch?

The Browns went 1-31 over a two year stretch by design.

There's been two years stretches where the Browns went, say, 10-22 that honestly were more painful to watch, because they were actually trying to win.