Charting Quinn against the Vikings
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Jason,
Are you sure that was Cover 3 on that play? I am watching the reply of the play( http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns...-vs-Browns-2009 ) and I am missing the cover 3 on this. I see the saftey on BE's side creaping up to the line and taking away a quick slant, 2 LBs following the both TE's release on the right side (MLB and OLB) and the other LB come up across the LOS. Doesn't seem like much of a cover 3 to me (maybe one of those variations on it?).
But I do see the window for a rope pass to BE on the inside. Of course I also see BE getting the CB to bite on the inside, and BE flashing like he is going outside but stays on his inside path.
Masters said:
Jason,Are you sure that was Cover 3 on that play? I am watching the reply of the play( http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns...-vs-Browns-2009 ) and I am missing the cover 3 on this. I see the saftey on BE's side creaping up to the line and taking away a quick slant, 2 LBs following the both TE's release on the right side (MLB and OLB) and the other LB come up across the LOS. Doesn't seem like much of a cover 3 to me (maybe one of those variations on it?).
But I do see the window for a rope pass to BE on the inside. Of course I also see BE getting the CB to bite on the inside, and BE flashing like he is going outside but stays on his inside path.
Just as the ball is snapped you see both corners open up to the inside and drop. The SS (who's just barely on the screen) drops at an angle from the near hash to the middle of the field. That's your Cover 3 shell.
Underneath, the sam stays with the inside TE, the mike takes the outside TE, and the will stays with the back. The Free safety is in an empty zone. It's hard to say if that's a Cover 3 man under, or if the lbs are just making counts. The sam backer is definitely in man-to-man. But it's not uncommon to leave just that matchup. You have the two backers playing thirds with the safety and play 3 over and 3 under. If the 2nd TE releases, the sam has him one on one. The will is either waiting for the back to release in man, or waiting for someone to enter his zone. I can't tell what the mike backer's doing. That is either a zone drop or some of the worst man coverage I've ever seen. If it's a zone drop, it's pretty heady of the will backer to hang around the line because no one released into his zone.
It's a little hybrid coverage, it looks like. Maybe a Cover 3 Man look, just rolled over to the weak side. Either way if you're going to one of the outside receivers, you've got to read that as a zone.
-jj
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Masters said:
Jason,Are you sure that was Cover 3 on that play? I am watching the reply of the play( http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns...-vs-Browns-2009 ) and I am missing the cover 3 on this. I see the saftey on BE's side creaping up to the line and taking away a quick slant, 2 LBs following the both TE's release on the right side (MLB and OLB) and the other LB come up across the LOS. Doesn't seem like much of a cover 3 to me (maybe one of those variations on it?).
But I do see the window for a rope pass to BE on the inside. Of course I also see BE getting the CB to bite on the inside, and BE flashing like he is going outside but stays on his inside path.
Just as the ball is snapped you see both corners open up to the inside and drop. The SS (who's just barely on the screen) drops at an angle from the near hash to the middle of the field. That's your Cover 3 shell.
Underneath, the sam stays with the inside TE, the mike takes the outside TE, and the will stays with the back. The Free safety is in an empty zone. It's hard to say if that's a Cover 3 man under, or if the lbs are just making counts. The sam backer is definitely in man-to-man. But it's not uncommon to leave just that matchup. You have the two backers playing thirds with the safety and play 3 over and 3 under. If the 2nd TE releases, the sam has him one on one. The will is either waiting for the back to release in man, or waiting for someone to enter his zone. I can't tell what the mike backer's doing. That is either a zone drop or some of the worst man coverage I've ever seen. If it's a zone drop, it's pretty heady of the will backer to hang around the line because no one released into his zone.
It's a little hybrid coverage, it looks like. Maybe a Cover 3 Man look, just rolled over to the weak side. Either way if you're going to one of the outside receivers, you've got to read that as a zone.
-jj
Just as the ball is snapped you see both corners open up to the inside and drop. The SS (who's just barely on the screen) drops at an angle from the near hash to the middle of the field. That's your Cover 3 shell.
Underneath, the sam stays with the inside TE, the mike takes the outside TE, and the will stays with the back. The Free safety is in an empty zone. It's hard to say if that's a Cover 3 man under, or if the lbs are just making counts. The sam backer is definitely in man-to-man. But it's not uncommon to leave just that matchup. You have the two backers playing thirds with the safety and play 3 over and 3 under. If the 2nd TE releases, the sam has him one on one. The will is either waiting for the back to release in man, or waiting for someone to enter his zone. I can't tell what the mike backer's doing. That is either a zone drop or some of the worst man coverage I've ever seen. If it's a zone drop, it's pretty heady of the will backer to hang around the line because no one released into his zone.
It's a little hybrid coverage, it looks like. Maybe a Cover 3 Man look, just rolled over to the weak side. Either way if you're going to one of the outside receivers, you've got to read that as a zone.
-jj
Thanks for the break down Jason. I think you are right when you say that it might it's a hybrid. That's what I was kind of seeing when I rewatched it (zone for the corners and man for the LBs), but wanted your take on it.
While I think the read Quinn made could work against that coverage (maybe where Reggie Rucker was going when he was on Reghi), Quinn has to see to see that cover 3 up top like BE did. Of course if it was a hybrid, that's definately one of those "you got to play live games and see that to learn" type of coverages.
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Masters said:
Jason,Are you sure that was Cover 3 on that play? I am watching the reply of the play( http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns...-vs-Browns-2009 ) and I am missing the cover 3 on this. I see the saftey on BE's side creaping up to the line and taking away a quick slant, 2 LBs following the both TE's release on the right side (MLB and OLB) and the other LB come up across the LOS. Doesn't seem like much of a cover 3 to me (maybe one of those variations on it?).
But I do see the window for a rope pass to BE on the inside. Of course I also see BE getting the CB to bite on the inside, and BE flashing like he is going outside but stays on his inside path.
Just as the ball is snapped you see both corners open up to the inside and drop. The SS (who's just barely on the screen) drops at an angle from the near hash to the middle of the field. That's your Cover 3 shell.
Underneath, the sam stays with the inside TE, the mike takes the outside TE, and the will stays with the back. The Free safety is in an empty zone. It's hard to say if that's a Cover 3 man under, or if the lbs are just making counts. The sam backer is definitely in man-to-man. But it's not uncommon to leave just that matchup. You have the two backers playing thirds with the safety and play 3 over and 3 under. If the 2nd TE releases, the sam has him one on one. The will is either waiting for the back to release in man, or waiting for someone to enter his zone. I can't tell what the mike backer's doing. That is either a zone drop or some of the worst man coverage I've ever seen. If it's a zone drop, it's pretty heady of the will backer to hang around the line because no one released into his zone.
It's a little hybrid coverage, it looks like. Maybe a Cover 3 Man look, just rolled over to the weak side. Either way if you're going to one of the outside receivers, you've got to read that as a zone.
-jj
Just as the ball is snapped you see both corners open up to the inside and drop. The SS (who's just barely on the screen) drops at an angle from the near hash to the middle of the field. That's your Cover 3 shell.
Underneath, the sam stays with the inside TE, the mike takes the outside TE, and the will stays with the back. The Free safety is in an empty zone. It's hard to say if that's a Cover 3 man under, or if the lbs are just making counts. The sam backer is definitely in man-to-man. But it's not uncommon to leave just that matchup. You have the two backers playing thirds with the safety and play 3 over and 3 under. If the 2nd TE releases, the sam has him one on one. The will is either waiting for the back to release in man, or waiting for someone to enter his zone. I can't tell what the mike backer's doing. That is either a zone drop or some of the worst man coverage I've ever seen. If it's a zone drop, it's pretty heady of the will backer to hang around the line because no one released into his zone.
It's a little hybrid coverage, it looks like. Maybe a Cover 3 Man look, just rolled over to the weak side. Either way if you're going to one of the outside receivers, you've got to read that as a zone.
-jj
I have no idea if you're right or not...but it's a pretty impressive break down of a play.
You need to post more often.
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LOL ... I only opened this thread because I thought the title read, "Charlie Quinn against the Vikings"
My bad ... cute charts though, he's getting better as the week progresses, just like Couch use to.
My bad ... cute charts though, he's getting better as the week progresses, just like Couch use to.
Except he doesn't throw 4 INT's like our benched QB did his first few games.
Did you even bother to examine DA's first 4 starts? Did you forget how piss poor his decisions were in 2006?
No?
Well your blind.
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My bad ... cute charts though, he's getting better as the week progresses, just like Couch use to.
Except he doesn't throw 4 INT's like our benched QB did his first few games.
Did you even bother to examine DA's first 4 starts? Did you forget how piss poor his decisions were in 2006?
No?
Well your blind.
Except he doesn't throw 4 INT's like our benched QB did his first few games.
Did you even bother to examine DA's first 4 starts? Did you forget how piss poor his decisions were in 2006?
No?
Well your blind.
This isn't about DA...this is about BQ and how he plays. You want to compare him to Anderson??.....not me..lets compare him to Rodgers...both sat the first 2 years in the league.
Keep your eye on the ball.
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Except he doesn't throw 4 INT's like our benched QB did his first few games.
Did you even bother to examine DA's first 4 starts? Did you forget how piss poor his decisions were in 2006?
No?
Well your blind.
This isn't about DA...this is about BQ and how he plays. You want to compare him to Anderson??.....not me..lets compare him to Rodgers...both sat the first 2 years in the league.
Keep your eye on the ball.
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Masters said:
Rogers sat for 3 years in the league
Fair enough...we will see if BQ looks 2/3 as good then.
The point is he isn't a rookie.
Fair enough???
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Masters said:
Rogers sat for 3 years in the leagueFair enough...we will see if BQ looks 2/3 as good then.
The point is he isn't a rookie.
Fair enough???
Fair enough...we will see if BQ looks 2/3 as good then.
The point is he isn't a rookie.
Fair enough???
I was just noting it was 3 years for Rogers.
He's not a pure rookie for sure. My expectations are for Quinn to perform somewhere in between Matt Ryan and Aaron Rogers last year.
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Masters said:
I was just noting it was 3 years for Rogers.He's not a pure rookie for sure. My expectations are for Quinn to perform somewhere in between Matt Ryan and Aaron Rogers last year.
That is where I am looking.
We agree.
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A quick review of Ryan last year...
round numbers
61%
3400 yds
16/11 TD/int
88 rating
All put together he looked good doing it...it wasn't a bunch of mop up stats....if that makes any sense.
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A quick review of Ryan last year...
round numbers
61%
3400 yds
16/11 TD/int
88 rating
All put together he looked good doing it...it wasn't a bunch of mop up stats....if that makes any sense.
A quick review of Ryan last year...
round numbers
61%
3400 yds
16/11 TD/int
88 rating
All put together he looked good doing it...it wasn't a bunch of mop up stats....if that makes any sense.
Might have to add a touch of leeway considering half of ryans games are in a warm dome, compared to half of quinn's games being on lake erie.
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A quick review of Ryan last year...
round numbers
61%
3400 yds
16/11 TD/int
88 rating
All put together he looked good doing it...it wasn't a bunch of mop up stats....if that makes any sense.
Might have to add a touch of leeway considering half of ryans games are in a warm dome, compared to half of quinn's games being on lake erie.
AdaM said:
Might have to add a touch of leeway considering half of ryans games are in a warm dome, compared to half of quinn's games being on lake erie.It is what it is Adam...DA didn't get much leeway concerning weather.....but I agree with you and will indeed take that in to consideration unlike some of the people around here.
But we are talking the 1st 7-8 games here...the weather is usually with-in a normal enough range it shouldn't have any major impact.
We catch every game in driving rain or 35 mile per hour winds..I will take that as a mitigating factor.
It is the only fair way to arrive at a conclusion.
I was at the stadium on Sunday. Weather wasn't a issue.
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A quick review of Ryan last year...
round numbers
61%
3400 yds
16/11 TD/int
88 rating
All put together he looked good doing it...it wasn't a bunch of mop up stats....if that makes any sense.
Might have to add a touch of leeway considering half of ryans games are in a warm dome, compared to half of quinn's games being on lake erie.
AdaM said:
Might have to add a touch of leeway considering half of ryans games are in a warm dome, compared to half of quinn's games being on lake erie.Ok, we are up to 136 asterisks next to Quinns name now ...
...
134.) DA laughed at him and called him Garo.
135.) The math was wrong, he did have a good game.
136.) He has to play football outside.
137.)
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@jadbf said:
What's weird is that if you go by just numbers, he's almost on pace for that.Game 1
60% (can't multiply it out)
205 yards x 16 = 3200 yards
1/1 16/16
74 rating.
But as you said, it can't be mop up stats, and the TD ratio definitely has to improve. Which would improve the rating.
I agree, and why I said it had to be done in a legit fashion....not as a way to gig the guy, but we need to be real here.
I get every falcon games as the local game and see most of them at the bar where I watch the Browns...Ryan looked good. Real good with his stat line. Brady with the same stat line didn't look good.
It's why you have to use your eyes and watch games and not allow simple stats to blur the vision.
Stats are great, but they don't tell the whole story.
That is why i say keep your eye on the ball...that is what really counts....not the stat line in the paper on Monday morning.
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AdaM said:
Might have to add a touch of leeway considering half of ryans games are in a warm dome, compared to half of quinn's games being on lake erie.Ok, we are up to 136 asterisks next to Quinns name now ...
...
134.) DA laughed at him and called him Garo.
135.) The math was wrong, he did have a good game.
136.) He has to play football outside.
137.)
Ok, we are up to 136 asterisks next to Quinns name now ...
...
134.) DA laughed at him and called him Garo.
135.) The math was wrong, he did have a good game.
136.) He has to play football outside.
137.)
And we're up to post 85 of you being a dickhead and calling anybody that's being realistic about Quinn's performance a queerfag. You want to proclaim it the worstest baddiest game ever by a QB and there is no nope left for us poor Browns fans. All some of us are doing is keeping it in perspective. You're way is a lot more fun for you though.
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AdaM said:
Might have to add a touch of leeway considering half of ryans games are in a warm dome, compared to half of quinn's games being on lake erie.Ok, we are up to 136 asterisks next to Quinns name now ...
...
134.) DA laughed at him and called him Garo.
135.) The math was wrong, he did have a good game.
136.) He has to play football outside.
137.)
Ok, we are up to 136 asterisks next to Quinns name now ...
...
134.) DA laughed at him and called him Garo.
135.) The math was wrong, he did have a good game.
136.) He has to play football outside.
137.) His advisors and mentors arn't avid, world renowned, self made Browns geniouses with lots of posts on brownsboard.com
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@shepwrite said:
Ate, maybe I'm wrong, but were you jumping DA's shit after one bad game? I mean, he had about 18 of them in a row, with the exception of the Giants game last year, so you had a lot of opportunities to catch up.What's the beef with Quinn, given that DA sucks that bad? Too good looking? I actually think that's an issue for some.
I don't think I needed to say as much, not many were making excuses for him. However, I'm certain you and those other really super kids mentioned in the subject topic of the super cool thread had your share of lynchings over similar play, no?
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