Charting Quinn against the Vikings
-
Hey, did any of the 137 include Shaun Smith's fist?
Go Browns, beat Denver's ass for once.
No, but we will add it as #141 ...
...
#138.) Contrary to popular belief, Brady Quinn, not the box jellyfish of northern Australia, is the most venomous creature on earth. Within 3 minutes of being scratched by Mr. Quinn, a human being experiences the following symptoms: fever, blurred vision, beard rash, tightness of the jeans, and the feeling of being repeatedly kicked through a car windshield.
#139.) Brady Quinn is not hung like a horse... horses are hung like Brady Quinn.
#140.) There are no steroids in baseball. Just players Brady Quinn has breathed on.
#141.) Shaun Smith once punched Brady Quinn in the face, This has been recorded by historians as the worst mistake anyone has ever made, Mr. Smith has never been seen again.
I don't know though, I think we may have gotton off track with our list ...
-
@inspecta said:
Also #142.) Superman has a pair of Brady Quinn pajamas.#143.) Brady Quinn once bet NASA he could survive re-entry without a spacesuit. On July 19th, 2009, a naked Brady Quinn re-entered the earth's atmosphere, streaking over 14 states and reaching a temperature of 3000 degrees. An embarrassed NASA publically claimed it was a meteor, and still owes him a beer. It was this beer that Brady was thinking about when he mis-read Braylon Edwards route and threw the interception, therefor it has been voided from the stats, as it should be.
-
@inspecta said:
Also #142.) Superman has a pair of Brady Quinn pajamas.#143.) Brady Quinn once bet NASA he could survive re-entry without a spacesuit. On July 19th, 2009, a naked Brady Quinn re-entered the earth's atmosphere, streaking over 14 states and reaching a temperature of 3000 degrees. An embarrassed NASA publically claimed it was a meteor, and still owes him a beer. It was this beer that Brady was thinking about when he mis-read Braylon Edwards route and threw the interception, therefor it has been voided from the stats, as it should be.
#143.) Brady Quinn once bet NASA he could survive re-entry without a spacesuit. On July 19th, 2009, a naked Brady Quinn re-entered the earth's atmosphere, streaking over 14 states and reaching a temperature of 3000 degrees. An embarrassed NASA publically claimed it was a meteor, and still owes him a beer. It was this beer that Brady was thinking about when he mis-read Braylon Edwards route and threw the interception, therefor it has been voided from the stats, as it should be.
Well who could blame him...if it was a beer from NASA, then it would be the most technologically advanced, bestest beer in the history of forever....assuming the bottle doesn't explode in your hand.
-
@inspecta said:
Also #142.) Superman has a pair of Brady Quinn pajamas.#143.) Brady Quinn once bet NASA he could survive re-entry without a spacesuit. On July 19th, 2009, a naked Brady Quinn re-entered the earth's atmosphere, streaking over 14 states and reaching a temperature of 3000 degrees. An embarrassed NASA publically claimed it was a meteor, and still owes him a beer. It was this beer that Brady was thinking about when he mis-read Braylon Edwards route and threw the interception, therefor it has been voided from the stats, as it should be.
#143.) Brady Quinn once bet NASA he could survive re-entry without a spacesuit. On July 19th, 2009, a naked Brady Quinn re-entered the earth's atmosphere, streaking over 14 states and reaching a temperature of 3000 degrees. An embarrassed NASA publically claimed it was a meteor, and still owes him a beer. It was this beer that Brady was thinking about when he mis-read Braylon Edwards route and threw the interception, therefor it has been voided from the stats, as it should be.
Of course your story involves male nudity, lol.
-
#143.) Brady Quinn once bet NASA he could survive re-entry without a spacesuit. On July 19th, 2009, a naked Brady Quinn re-entered the earth's atmosphere, streaking over 14 states and reaching a temperature of 3000 degrees. An embarrassed NASA publically claimed it was a meteor, and still owes him a beer. It was this beer that Brady was thinking about when he mis-read Braylon Edwards route and threw the interception, therefor it has been voided from the stats, as it should be.
Of course your story involves male nudity, lol.
AdaM said:
Of course your story involves male nudity, lol.Which brings us to #144:
#144.) Brady Quinnโs slow first half could be contributed to him eating a whole cake after his pre-game meal, and before his teammates could tell him there was a male-stripper in it.
-
@shepwrite said:
Ate, maybe I'm wrong, but were you jumping DA's shit after one bad game? I mean, he had about 18 of them in a row, with the exception of the Giants game last year, so you had a lot of opportunities to catch up.What's the beef with Quinn, given that DA sucks that bad? Too good looking? I actually think that's an issue for some.
I don't think I needed to say as much, not many were making excuses for him. However, I'm certain you and those other really super kids mentioned in the subject topic of the super cool thread had your share of lynchings over similar play, no?
I don't think I needed to say as much, not many were making excuses for him.
There aren't many to be made for him. He could not elevate his play against good teams, and didn't show promise of improvement in any of his deficiences. We made an awful lot of excuses for DA in 2007. Many of us were all over the defense, and there were plenty of people stoked about DA. He just could not improve. He didn't improve.
-
What I haven't seen much in the articles about the game I've read is the performance of Mack at center. We played a lot of shotgun, including the WildDawg formations and from where I was sitting (sec 127 row 6) I saw a ton of high snaps. Snaps that took way too long to get to the quarterback. Those precious few seconds Quinn and Cribbs had to waste keeping their eyes on the ball, waiting for it to get to them from center seemed like a big reason why we didn't go down field as much as some would have liked. If your eyes are on the ball why the receiver is running his route and the defense is showing their coverage, you're not going to be as confident going down field.
I saw most of the Browns drives from the view of the umpire because the team was always going toward the west end zone. The lone exception was the Quinn interception. You wouldn't have been able to tell from watching on TV but the pass was thrown before Edwards was even 5 yards into his route. It was touch pass/lob that the receiver has to run under in the right spot to catch. Edwards never turned to look for the ball until he had pass the cornerback, as the cornerback broke outside to intercept the ball. There's no way Quinn could have been responsible, outside of physically walking over to Edwards and confirming the route he was going to run. At least from my angle, that's how I saw it.
-
What I haven't seen much in the articles about the game I've read is the performance of Mack at center. We played a lot of shotgun, including the WildDawg formations and from where I was sitting (sec 127 row 6) I saw a ton of high snaps. Snaps that took way too long to get to the quarterback. Those precious few seconds Quinn and Cribbs had to waste keeping their eyes on the ball, waiting for it to get to them from center seemed like a big reason why we didn't go down field as much as some would have liked. If your eyes are on the ball why the receiver is running his route and the defense is showing their coverage, you're not going to be as confident going down field.
I saw most of the Browns drives from the view of the umpire because the team was always going toward the west end zone. The lone exception was the Quinn interception. You wouldn't have been able to tell from watching on TV but the pass was thrown before Edwards was even 5 yards into his route. It was touch pass/lob that the receiver has to run under in the right spot to catch. Edwards never turned to look for the ball until he had pass the cornerback, as the cornerback broke outside to intercept the ball. There's no way Quinn could have been responsible, outside of physically walking over to Edwards and confirming the route he was going to run. At least from my angle, that's how I saw it.
What I haven't seen much in the articles about the game I've read is the performance of Mack at center. We played a lot of shotgun, including the WildDawg formations and from where I was sitting (sec 127 row 6) I saw a ton of high snaps. Snaps that took way too long to get to the quarterback. Those precious few seconds Quinn and Cribbs had to waste keeping their eyes on the ball, waiting for it to get to them from center seemed like a big reason why we didn't go down field as much as some would have liked. If your eyes are on the ball why the receiver is running his route and the defense is showing their coverage, you're not going to be as confident going down field.
I saw most of the Browns drives from the view of the umpire because the team was always going toward the west end zone. The lone exception was the Quinn interception. You wouldn't have been able to tell from watching on TV but the pass was thrown before Edwards was even 5 yards into his route. It was touch pass/lob that the receiver has to run under in the right spot to catch. Edwards never turned to look for the ball until he had pass the cornerback, as the cornerback broke outside to intercept the ball. There's no way Quinn could have been responsible, outside of physically walking over to Edwards and confirming the route he was going to run. At least from my angle, that's how I saw it.
One of the articles about covering Mangini's post game/Monday presser noted the parts on Mack. While not specifically saying high snaps, he seemed to allude to Mack having some struggles with the snaps and snap count.
On the INT, Jason covered it in another thread. It seems the read error was still on Quinn, in that he thought the coverage was man, but it was some sort of cover 3 (at least for the CB and safties). So BE going inside should have been the right "sight adjustment". Seems to me the kind of thing that a QB is only going to read correctly w/ time and experience under center.
****EDIT**** It's actually this thread Jason covered it in
-
I just finished reading Jason's analysis. Pretty good stuff, I'm not that good at breaking down defenses so outside of Madden terminology, there's no way I'd honestly know a cover 3 man from a tampa 2. I only reported what it looked like from my seat. It appeared that Quinn threw the ball well before Braylon decided where he was going. It looked like Braylon saw the corner take away the outside so he broke slightly inside/straight down the field. At that point the ball was already in the air and the corner was already on the outside looking in so he easily saw what Braylon didn't. I agree with you, reps in practice and experience under center will hopefully get these things ironed out. At the end of the day, it was a 30 yard "punt" though, that put the Vikings down at the 12 yard line. The shame is that the defense didn't stop them with a 3 and out. The Vikes drove the length of the field for the TD, allowing the 2 Viking fans in front of me, and the two Viking fans behind me to remind me again how great their team is. This is the kind of scenario where the good teams rely on the defense to bail them out.
I just wish this was the old stadium, then I could have shut those 4 idiots up, dawg pound style.
-
Jason,
Are you sure that was Cover 3 on that play? I am watching the reply of the play( http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns...-vs-Browns-2009 ) and I am missing the cover 3 on this. I see the saftey on BE's side creaping up to the line and taking away a quick slant, 2 LBs following the both TE's release on the right side (MLB and OLB) and the other LB come up across the LOS. Doesn't seem like much of a cover 3 to me (maybe one of those variations on it?).
But I do see the window for a rope pass to BE on the inside. Of course I also see BE getting the CB to bite on the inside, and BE flashing like he is going outside but stays on his inside path.
Masters said:
Are you sure that was Cover 3 on that play? I am watching the reply of the play( http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns...-vs-Browns-2009 ) and I am missing the cover 3 on this. I see the saftey on BE's side creaping up to the line and taking away a quick slant, 2 LBs following the both TE's release on the right side (MLB and OLB) and the other LB come up across the LOS. Doesn't seem like much of a cover 3 to me (maybe one of those variations on it?).But I do see the window for a rope pass to BE on the inside. Of course I also see BE getting the CB to bite on the inside, and BE flashing like he is going outside but stays on his inside path.
I also think it is unlikely to be cover 3 - there is no other defender within 10 yards of BE (safety #25 only comes into the picture well after the interception has been made). Not only was he out of the shot entirely, but he was not nearly deep enough (he comes running in well after the interception has been made and is clearly running away from the line of scrimmage.) If it was a cover 3, then it was a piss poor one considering how little help the corner got against our #1 receiver. In any event, we'll never know the coverage for sure short of reviewing video of a bird's eye view of the entire play or an admission by the Vikes.
My best guess is that the bolded comment above is why they those people are saying it is at least partially BE's fault - BE either made a triple move (huh?) and faked out both the corner and his QB, or he tried to make a double move, was cut off by the corner and then broke off his route. That video clearly shows BE fake in, then cut out (he then leaves the frame of the screen on the out cut), but when the video next shows him after the pass was thrown he has clearly broken inside at some point. On a sight adjustment play, making a triple move is a no-no. My best guess is that if it is BE's fault, the latter happened - he tried to run a deep route on a double move but broke off the route after getting cut off by or tangled with the corner. Nobody makes a triple move on a audible.
-
Masters said:
Are you sure that was Cover 3 on that play? I am watching the reply of the play( http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns...-vs-Browns-2009 ) and I am missing the cover 3 on this. I see the saftey on BE's side creaping up to the line and taking away a quick slant, 2 LBs following the both TE's release on the right side (MLB and OLB) and the other LB come up across the LOS. Doesn't seem like much of a cover 3 to me (maybe one of those variations on it?).But I do see the window for a rope pass to BE on the inside. Of course I also see BE getting the CB to bite on the inside, and BE flashing like he is going outside but stays on his inside path.
I also think it is unlikely to be cover 3 - there is no other defender within 10 yards of BE (safety #25 only comes into the picture well after the interception has been made). Not only was he out of the shot entirely, but he was not nearly deep enough (he comes running in well after the interception has been made and is clearly running away from the line of scrimmage.) If it was a cover 3, then it was a piss poor one considering how little help the corner got against our #1 receiver. In any event, we'll never know the coverage for sure short of reviewing video of a bird's eye view of the entire play or an admission by the Vikes.
My best guess is that the bolded comment above is why they those people are saying it is at least partially BE's fault - BE either made a triple move (huh?) and faked out both the corner and his QB, or he tried to make a double move, was cut off by the corner and then broke off his route. That video clearly shows BE fake in, then cut out (he then leaves the frame of the screen on the out cut), but when the video next shows him after the pass was thrown he has clearly broken inside at some point. On a sight adjustment play, making a triple move is a no-no. My best guess is that if it is BE's fault, the latter happened - he tried to run a deep route on a double move but broke off the route after getting cut off by or tangled with the corner. Nobody makes a triple move on a audible.
I also think it is unlikely to be cover 3 - there is no other defender within 10 yards of BE (safety #25 only comes into the picture well after the interception has been made). Not only was he out of the shot entirely, but he was not nearly deep enough (he comes running in well after the interception has been made and is clearly running away from the line of scrimmage.) If it was a cover 3, then it was a piss poor one considering how little help the corner got against our #1 receiver. In any event, we'll never know the coverage for sure short of reviewing video of a bird's eye view of the entire play or an admission by the Vikes.
If I'm not mistaken, Cover 3 in this case meant the CB gave BE the inside because he had deep 3rd responsibility (the opposite CB have that 3rd) and the Safety deep middle. The reason you don't see that Safety until late is because, as JJ said, Quinn looked right and that look brought the deep Safety over to that side. So if this is all correct, than the play BE had was inside on the CB. Thus Quinn mis-read the coverage. Not sure what he thought he saw on the right in terms of coverage, but it didn't translate to the left, that's for sure.
If it were man than Brady hits the fade and lets BE jump it. BE ran a pretty good route to sell it like it was man, and he had position - perfect position. In fact that looked like 6.
Cover 3 is 3 deep 3rds. It might look like man, but the corner giving him the inside, coupled with the other S coming up pre-snap covering the flat, gives an indication of Cover 3.
-
I took a look at the video on NFL.com and if you look at the :06 mark, Quinn is cocking back, Braylon makes a move inside, then outside and Quinn releases the ball to the outside. During the point where Braylon should still be on the outside running under the ball, he cuts back inside, probably because he sees the defender go outside with him on his outside cut. I don't think he realized the ball was in the air at that point. By the time he realized it, the defender did a good job of coming back inside to him and then bounced outside to grab the pick. It appears it was a good sell on Griffin's part to make Edwards think the ball wasn't in the air by not reacting until the last second. Could explain why Edwards never looked back for the ball earlier.
-
I took a look at the video on NFL.com and if you look at the :06 mark, Quinn is cocking back, Braylon makes a move inside, then outside and Quinn releases the ball to the outside. During the point where Braylon should still be on the outside running under the ball, he cuts back inside, probably because he sees the defender go outside with him on his outside cut. I don't think he realized the ball was in the air at that point. By the time he realized it, the defender did a good job of coming back inside to him and then bounced outside to grab the pick. It appears it was a good sell on Griffin's part to make Edwards think the ball wasn't in the air by not reacting until the last second. Could explain why Edwards never looked back for the ball earlier.
-
Masters said:
Are you sure that was Cover 3 on that play? I am watching the reply of the play( http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns...-vs-Browns-2009 ) and I am missing the cover 3 on this. I see the saftey on BE's side creaping up to the line and taking away a quick slant, 2 LBs following the both TE's release on the right side (MLB and OLB) and the other LB come up across the LOS. Doesn't seem like much of a cover 3 to me (maybe one of those variations on it?).But I do see the window for a rope pass to BE on the inside. Of course I also see BE getting the CB to bite on the inside, and BE flashing like he is going outside but stays on his inside path.
I also think it is unlikely to be cover 3 - there is no other defender within 10 yards of BE (safety #25 only comes into the picture well after the interception has been made). Not only was he out of the shot entirely, but he was not nearly deep enough (he comes running in well after the interception has been made and is clearly running away from the line of scrimmage.) If it was a cover 3, then it was a piss poor one considering how little help the corner got against our #1 receiver. In any event, we'll never know the coverage for sure short of reviewing video of a bird's eye view of the entire play or an admission by the Vikes.
My best guess is that the bolded comment above is why they those people are saying it is at least partially BE's fault - BE either made a triple move (huh?) and faked out both the corner and his QB, or he tried to make a double move, was cut off by the corner and then broke off his route. That video clearly shows BE fake in, then cut out (he then leaves the frame of the screen on the out cut), but when the video next shows him after the pass was thrown he has clearly broken inside at some point. On a sight adjustment play, making a triple move is a no-no. My best guess is that if it is BE's fault, the latter happened - he tried to run a deep route on a double move but broke off the route after getting cut off by or tangled with the corner. Nobody makes a triple move on a audible.
I also think it is unlikely to be cover 3 - there is no other defender within 10 yards of BE (safety #25 only comes into the picture well after the interception has been made). Not only was he out of the shot entirely, but he was not nearly deep enough (he comes running in well after the interception has been made and is clearly running away from the line of scrimmage.) If it was a cover 3, then it was a piss poor one considering how little help the corner got against our #1 receiver. In any event, we'll never know the coverage for sure short of reviewing video of a bird's eye view of the entire play or an admission by the Vikes.
My best guess is that the bolded comment above is why they those people are saying it is at least partially BE's fault - BE either made a triple move (huh?) and faked out both the corner and his QB, or he tried to make a double move, was cut off by the corner and then broke off his route. That video clearly shows BE fake in, then cut out (he then leaves the frame of the screen on the out cut), but when the video next shows him after the pass was thrown he has clearly broken inside at some point. On a sight adjustment play, making a triple move is a no-no. My best guess is that if it is BE's fault, the latter happened - he tried to run a deep route on a double move but broke off the route after getting cut off by or tangled with the corner. Nobody makes a triple move on a audible.
Ok, guys, look.
There are five players highlighted in the photo. Both corners, the two safeties and the Mike linebacker. Their paths are showing you a base cover 3 (weak) shell. The strong safety is on the near hash at the 38 yard line. At the snap, he immediately drops out of the picture into his zone (15-20 yards off the ball in the middle of the field) Actually, he vacates before that -- just before the snap.
When Quinn comes back to his left, Cedric Griffin is over the top of Braylon Edwards.
Even if the fade was still on, it's off now. Edwards, being experienced, does the right thing. Reads the deep coverage and gives his quarterback an inside target. He actually presses him to the outside then turns to show Quinn his numbers. It's really well done.
Regardless of the call or the adjustments, if the corner is on top of the receiver the fade is off. Quinn's got to use his eyes. He's got to throw the ball on a line or back shoulder the throw. And that's a simple adjustment. If he sees the cornerback's name (facing away from the QB), he throws the fade stop (back shoulder). If he sees his face (facing the QB), he throws the ball on a line right between 1 and 7. Especially considering that the Free Safety has completely taken himself out of the play prowling and empty zone, and Quinn's look to the right flat held the strong safety short and in the middle of the field.
And don't overthink the safety being so shallow. That's a bit of a gimmick look, playing the SS in centerfield like that and the FS up. It might be just a reaction to the formation isolating the #1 receiver on the weak side. So when you have the strong safety back there, 1.) he's not that comfortable there, and 2.) no one entered his zone. There's no reason for him to come off his 15-20 yard drop. The next time we see him he enters the frame at about the 25 yard line, presumably after he re-directed when Quinn rotated back to the left. Regardless of what everyone else is doing, he's playing the middle 3rd. If he was single-high in man, he'd likely be over the top of the deepest receiver. In cover 3, he's only responsible for his 3rd of the field - the deep middle. And no one was there so he stayed closer to the line of scrimmage. That should lead you to conclude zone cover 3 vs. anything else.
-jj
-
Holy shit JJ, That is very cool stuff. LMAO!
And after watching this video, Quinn had the TE in motion open for the first down in the right flat.
lol....just saying.
-
Brilliant, simply brilliant Jason. I can completely see what you mean that Quinn has to recognize the cover 3 shell being shown (I see it now, so I hope he can).
Masters said:
Brilliant, simply brilliant Jason. I can completely see what you mean that Quinn has to recognize the cover 3 shell being shown (I see it now, so I hope he can).Weird.. had to re-work the pics there. Twitpics is only temporary if you don't tweet it.
-jj
-
Masters said:
Brilliant, simply brilliant Jason. I can completely see what you mean that Quinn has to recognize the cover 3 shell being shown (I see it now, so I hope he can).Weird.. had to re-work the pics there. Twitpics is only temporary if you don't tweet it.
-jj
-
Masters said:
Brilliant, simply brilliant Jason. I can completely see what you mean that Quinn has to recognize the cover 3 shell being shown (I see it now, so I hope he can).Weird.. had to re-work the pics there. Twitpics is only temporary if you don't tweet it.
-jj
-
Thanks JJ, good analysis, opened my eyes on that. I think with more playing time Quinn will recognize these coverages and make the proper adjustments. Just needs more reps. We all knew there were going to be growing pains, I'm on board for the long haul. Go Browns.
.Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better ๐
Register Login