Charting Quinn against the Vikings
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Brilliant, simply brilliant Jason. I can completely see what you mean that Quinn has to recognize the cover 3 shell being shown (I see it now, so I hope he can).
Masters said:
Brilliant, simply brilliant Jason. I can completely see what you mean that Quinn has to recognize the cover 3 shell being shown (I see it now, so I hope he can).Weird.. had to re-work the pics there. Twitpics is only temporary if you don't tweet it.
-jj
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Masters said:
Brilliant, simply brilliant Jason. I can completely see what you mean that Quinn has to recognize the cover 3 shell being shown (I see it now, so I hope he can).Weird.. had to re-work the pics there. Twitpics is only temporary if you don't tweet it.
-jj
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Masters said:
Brilliant, simply brilliant Jason. I can completely see what you mean that Quinn has to recognize the cover 3 shell being shown (I see it now, so I hope he can).Weird.. had to re-work the pics there. Twitpics is only temporary if you don't tweet it.
-jj
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Thanks JJ, good analysis, opened my eyes on that. I think with more playing time Quinn will recognize these coverages and make the proper adjustments. Just needs more reps. We all knew there were going to be growing pains, I'm on board for the long haul. Go Browns.
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@shepwrite said:
Ate, maybe I'm wrong, but were you jumping DA's shit after one bad game? I mean, he had about 18 of them in a row, with the exception of the Giants game last year, so you had a lot of opportunities to catch up.What's the beef with Quinn, given that DA sucks that bad? Too good looking? I actually think that's an issue for some.
Get tired of reading about the last 18 starts of DAs career. Here is the last 18 starts of DAs career
Derek Anderson CLE 29 48 364 0 1 VS Seattle Win November 4, 2007
Derek Anderson CLE 16 35 123 3 0 VS Pittsburgh Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 24 38 274 0 1 VS Baltimore Win
Derek Anderson CLE 24 35 253 2 1 VS Houston Win
Derek Anderson CLE 21 41 304 2 2 VS Arizona Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 16 29 185 2 1 VS NY Jets Win
Derek Anderson CLE 9 24 137 0 0 VS Buffalo Win
Derek Anderson CLE 29 48 251 2 4 VS Cincinnati Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 11 20 152 1 1 VS SanFransico Win
Derek Anderson CLE 11 24 114 1 0 VS Dallas Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 18 32 166 0 2 VS Pittsburgh Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 14 37 125 1 3 VS Baltimore Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 15 24 138 1 1 VS Cincinannti Win
Derek Anderson CLE 18 29 310 2 0 VS NY Giants Win
Derek Anderson CLE 14 37 136 1 0 VS Washington Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 14 27 246 1 0 VS Jacksonville Win
Derek Anderson CLE 17 33 219 2 1 VS Baltimore Loss November 2, 2008
Derek Anderson CLE 16 26 110 0 0 VS Indy Loss November 30, 2008
Total Won Loss - 9 - 9
Those are not all bad games except the Giants game. Especially if you are not putting this last game as a poor performance by BQ.
Over the last 18 starts DA is 9 wins and 9 losses with a few very good games, a few average games and a few very bad games.
Has nothing to to with BQ but I get really tired of people making it seem like DA has not played a good game other than the Giants game in his last 18 starts. Overall over the last 18 games I would agree that DA has not been a great QB. But he has had more than 1 good game and the Browns record over his last 18 starts is 9 wins and 9 losses.
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@shepwrite said:
Ate, maybe I'm wrong, but were you jumping DA's shit after one bad game? I mean, he had about 18 of them in a row, with the exception of the Giants game last year, so you had a lot of opportunities to catch up.What's the beef with Quinn, given that DA sucks that bad? Too good looking? I actually think that's an issue for some.
Get tired of reading about the last 18 starts of DAs career. Here is the last 18 starts of DAs career
Derek Anderson CLE 29 48 364 0 1 VS Seattle Win November 4, 2007
Derek Anderson CLE 16 35 123 3 0 VS Pittsburgh Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 24 38 274 0 1 VS Baltimore Win
Derek Anderson CLE 24 35 253 2 1 VS Houston Win
Derek Anderson CLE 21 41 304 2 2 VS Arizona Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 16 29 185 2 1 VS NY Jets Win
Derek Anderson CLE 9 24 137 0 0 VS Buffalo Win
Derek Anderson CLE 29 48 251 2 4 VS Cincinnati Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 11 20 152 1 1 VS SanFransico Win
Derek Anderson CLE 11 24 114 1 0 VS Dallas Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 18 32 166 0 2 VS Pittsburgh Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 14 37 125 1 3 VS Baltimore Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 15 24 138 1 1 VS Cincinannti Win
Derek Anderson CLE 18 29 310 2 0 VS NY Giants Win
Derek Anderson CLE 14 37 136 1 0 VS Washington Loss
Derek Anderson CLE 14 27 246 1 0 VS Jacksonville Win
Derek Anderson CLE 17 33 219 2 1 VS Baltimore Loss November 2, 2008
Derek Anderson CLE 16 26 110 0 0 VS Indy Loss November 30, 2008
Total Won Loss - 9 - 9
Those are not all bad games except the Giants game. Especially if you are not putting this last game as a poor performance by BQ.
Over the last 18 starts DA is 9 wins and 9 losses with a few very good games, a few average games and a few very bad games.
Has nothing to to with BQ but I get really tired of people making it seem like DA has not played a good game other than the Giants game in his last 18 starts. Overall over the last 18 games I would agree that DA has not been a great QB. But he has had more than 1 good game and the Browns record over his last 18 starts is 9 wins and 9 losses.
But he has had more than 1 good game and the Browns record over his last 18 starts is 9 wins and 9 losses.
You're right, and I think people just consider the Giants game a testimony to the "good Derek" and are frustrated he cannot produce even 3/4 of that for most games. Because the following week he took a rather large dump on the field vs. Washington. Well that, and he is 1-13 in games against playoff teams, and 3-9 in the AFCN. We as fans think we have DA figured out because it appears DC's have him figured out. With Quinn we just want to know WTF we have/don't have. Pulling for DA at this point seems like a practice in futility, and some of us are perplexed why DA is a better optiion at this point in time when you consider 2 years down the line. A year from now we could be having the same conversation about Quinn, but at least we'd know.
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Don't disagree that you need to stay with BQ. I just think that people over state how bad DA played his last 18 weeks. He had more than one good game. That does not mean you bench BQ. It actually should indicate that the chances of BQ having a good game in the future are much more likely.
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I also think it is unlikely to be cover 3 - there is no other defender within 10 yards of BE (safety #25 only comes into the picture well after the interception has been made). Not only was he out of the shot entirely, but he was not nearly deep enough (he comes running in well after the interception has been made and is clearly running away from the line of scrimmage.) If it was a cover 3, then it was a piss poor one considering how little help the corner got against our #1 receiver. In any event, we'll never know the coverage for sure short of reviewing video of a bird's eye view of the entire play or an admission by the Vikes.
My best guess is that the bolded comment above is why they those people are saying it is at least partially BE's fault - BE either made a triple move (huh?) and faked out both the corner and his QB, or he tried to make a double move, was cut off by the corner and then broke off his route. That video clearly shows BE fake in, then cut out (he then leaves the frame of the screen on the out cut), but when the video next shows him after the pass was thrown he has clearly broken inside at some point. On a sight adjustment play, making a triple move is a no-no. My best guess is that if it is BE's fault, the latter happened - he tried to run a deep route on a double move but broke off the route after getting cut off by or tangled with the corner. Nobody makes a triple move on a audible.
Ok, guys, look.
There are five players highlighted in the photo. Both corners, the two safeties and the Mike linebacker. Their paths are showing you a base cover 3 (weak) shell. The strong safety is on the near hash at the 38 yard line. At the snap, he immediately drops out of the picture into his zone (15-20 yards off the ball in the middle of the field) Actually, he vacates before that -- just before the snap.
When Quinn comes back to his left, Cedric Griffin is over the top of Braylon Edwards.
Even if the fade was still on, it's off now. Edwards, being experienced, does the right thing. Reads the deep coverage and gives his quarterback an inside target. He actually presses him to the outside then turns to show Quinn his numbers. It's really well done.
Regardless of the call or the adjustments, if the corner is on top of the receiver the fade is off. Quinn's got to use his eyes. He's got to throw the ball on a line or back shoulder the throw. And that's a simple adjustment. If he sees the cornerback's name (facing away from the QB), he throws the fade stop (back shoulder). If he sees his face (facing the QB), he throws the ball on a line right between 1 and 7. Especially considering that the Free Safety has completely taken himself out of the play prowling and empty zone, and Quinn's look to the right flat held the strong safety short and in the middle of the field.
And don't overthink the safety being so shallow. That's a bit of a gimmick look, playing the SS in centerfield like that and the FS up. It might be just a reaction to the formation isolating the #1 receiver on the weak side. So when you have the strong safety back there, 1.) he's not that comfortable there, and 2.) no one entered his zone. There's no reason for him to come off his 15-20 yard drop. The next time we see him he enters the frame at about the 25 yard line, presumably after he re-directed when Quinn rotated back to the left. Regardless of what everyone else is doing, he's playing the middle 3rd. If he was single-high in man, he'd likely be over the top of the deepest receiver. In cover 3, he's only responsible for his 3rd of the field - the deep middle. And no one was there so he stayed closer to the line of scrimmage. That should lead you to conclude zone cover 3 vs. anything else.
-jj
Ok, guys, look.
There are five players highlighted in the photo. Both corners, the two safeties and the Mike linebacker. Their paths are showing you a base cover 3 (weak) shell. The strong safety is on the near hash at the 38 yard line. At the snap, he immediately drops out of the picture into his zone (15-20 yards off the ball in the middle of the field) Actually, he vacates before that -- just before the snap.
When Quinn comes back to his left, Cedric Griffin is over the top of Braylon Edwards.
Even if the fade was still on, it's off now. Edwards, being experienced, does the right thing. Reads the deep coverage and gives his quarterback an inside target. He actually presses him to the outside then turns to show Quinn his numbers. It's really well done.
Regardless of the call or the adjustments, if the corner is on top of the receiver the fade is off. Quinn's got to use his eyes. He's got to throw the ball on a line or back shoulder the throw. And that's a simple adjustment. If he sees the cornerback's name (facing away from the QB), he throws the fade stop (back shoulder). If he sees his face (facing the QB), he throws the ball on a line right between 1 and 7. Especially considering that the Free Safety has completely taken himself out of the play prowling and empty zone, and Quinn's look to the right flat held the strong safety short and in the middle of the field.
And don't overthink the safety being so shallow. That's a bit of a gimmick look, playing the SS in centerfield like that and the FS up. It might be just a reaction to the formation isolating the #1 receiver on the weak side. So when you have the strong safety back there, 1.) he's not that comfortable there, and 2.) no one entered his zone. There's no reason for him to come off his 15-20 yard drop. The next time we see him he enters the frame at about the 25 yard line, presumably after he re-directed when Quinn rotated back to the left. Regardless of what everyone else is doing, he's playing the middle 3rd. If he was single-high in man, he'd likely be over the top of the deepest receiver. In cover 3, he's only responsible for his 3rd of the field - the deep middle. And no one was there so he stayed closer to the line of scrimmage. That should lead you to conclude zone cover 3 vs. anything else.
-jj
That is some serious shit right there...Is JJ code for Ron Jaworski?
Very impressive. One thing that I like in the post game analysis and statements is that both Quinn and Edwards took the blame for the int. I'm more inclined to believe that Quinn made the mistake and the hope is that he learns from it and doesn't make that mistake again. If we expected a guy making his 4th NFL start to not make mistakes you were kidding yourself. Hopefully, he won't make that mistake again.
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LOL ... I only opened this thread because I thought the title read, "Charlie Quinn against the Vikings"
My bad ... cute charts though, he's getting better as the week progresses, just like Couch use to.
LOL ... I only opened this thread because I thought the title read, "Charlie Quinn against the Vikings"
My bad ... cute charts though, he's getting better as the week progresses, just like Couch use to.
Thanks for reminding me about our last QB capable of beating Pittsburgh. 2003 seems like SUCH a long time ago.
- Tom F.
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