Take Tim Couch out and put in Derek Anderson
-
Possibly D&S. Possibly.
However, I think a head coach's clearest motivation is winning. If Mangini felt DA's ceiling was sufficient to warrant starting, I think he'd have started him. As distant as Lerner is to this thing, you really think he mandated Quinn to start?
Browns fans are insanely loyal. The franchise's value wasn't going to plummet if BQ wasn't the starter. We want a winner. Hell, you see all the wistful thinking back to the 80's and 60's (on back).
I'm not buying it. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Nope.
Sev's math on the topic is beautiful. Yup, the most successful coaches have a history of playing fan favorites.
Look at the school of coaching that Mangini comes from. Did his mentor play the fan favorite? Ask Kosar and Bledsoe.
-
So you're Mangini, going to a job interview with a team that has a QB situation that's up in the air and an owner that basically let it be known who his pick for QB is...
You're throwing up on the way to the interview because you know you are going to have to throw yourself under the bus and commit to giving a specific QB, that you may not be sure about, the first best shot....
So you have a "competition", and if it's close you give that QB the benefit of the doubt and go with him.... but does that mean you stick with him forever when you've got a guy sitting on the bench who was mismanaged for a couple years and has potential to be amazing if you can tame a couple of his problems?
My guess is, if BQ goes another 2 games without putting together meaningful drives there's a very good chance Mangini will go to Lerner and say they need to shake things up.
and has potential to be amazing if you can tame a couple of his problems?
D.Anderson potential to be "amazing" ?????? guys.... he's Derek Anderson...thats all he will ever be.
True ... Mangini will have to play him. The only question is when. Its really soaking in ----BQ is horrible...it doesnt matter what the coach/GM might be thinking at this point.... settle in for a long... long... long season.
We cant run, we cant pass, and for good measure we cant play defense.... should be a fun trip to Baltimore.
Bermeck (message to NFL from the Brownies: .... get ready to pad your stats !)
-
Greythan Mangini has just been fired from one head coach job in the NFL.... two firings is pretty much terminal for his career...... He cant be blamed for putting in Quinn no matter how bad he plays BUT he can be blamed for Playing DA over him.....
Fans still buy tickets and apparal...... the NFL is still an entertainment business......
The fan base here wants what it wants regardless of what may make sense..... The mob still has influence in terms of pr and sales........
Its a Win win for Mangini's personal career if he starts Quinn where IF he started DA he was totally exposed to criticisms and ridicule based upon the unknown qualitative factor of NOT playing a high draft pick fans embraced apparal selling QB.
Greythan Mangini has just been fired from one head coach job in the NFL.... two firings is pretty much terminal for his career...... He cant be blamed for putting in Quinn no matter how bad he plays BUT he can be blamed for Playing DA over him.....
Fans still buy tickets and apparal...... the NFL is still an entertainment business......
The fan base here wants what it wants regardless of what may make sense..... The mob still has influence in terms of pr and sales........
Its a Win win for Mangini's personal career if he starts Quinn where IF he started DA he was totally exposed to criticisms and ridicule based upon the unknown qualitative factor of NOT playing a high draft pick fans embraced apparal selling QB.
It is not a win/win if Mangini later inserts DA and he does substantially better than Quinn. That same mob you speak of will turn on him then too.
-
Good discussion here today all ... just minor bickering but for the most part we've all came together knowing our common goal is to insert some talent into this team.
The DA & BQ sides are zero'ing in on a common goal and it might be for bad reasons (poor play from both), but after all we went through last week as a Browns Family on here, this is good stuff.
"Uncle Lums, light the grill, I think it's time to for the picnik!"
-
Greythan Math? this is not about math but job and career decisions.... More about personal risk assessment..
IF he think the two are close in practice scenarios than he would be a fool not to default toward quinn because there is no inherent risk to his own job. Howeve IF he picked DA all of the risk of that decision would sit solely without any recourse on him
The Mob would not turn on Mangini IF DA did better after he was inserted..
The reasoning would be the same.... We did not know what the first round draft pick had and Mangini Wisely wanted to see so he could chart a direction.... He would not be crucified for that only IF he play DA as the starter over Quinn immediately because of the What if scenario on Quinn.... The same fans would be screaming about having to see what the first rounder was media hyped and draft status was supposed to be.
-
Good discussion here today all ... just minor bickering but for the most part we've all came together knowing our common goal is to insert some talent into this team.
The DA & BQ sides are zero'ing in on a common goal and it might be for bad reasons (poor play from both), but after all we went through last week as a Browns Family on here, this is good stuff.
"Uncle Lums, light the grill, I think it's time to for the picnik!"
Good discussion here today all ... just minor bickering but for the most part we've all came together knowing our common goal is to insert some talent into this team.
The DA & BQ sides are zero'ing in on a common goal and it might be for bad reasons (poor play from both), but after all we went through last week as a Browns Family on here, this is good stuff.
"Uncle Lums, light the grill, I think it's time to for the picnik!"
As always...thanks for keeping the doors OPEN.
Bermeck (always good to suck up to a MOD/ADMIN...you never know when your going to go "postal")
-
Greythan Math? this is not about math but job and career decisions.... More about personal risk assessment..
IF he think the two are close in practice scenarios than he would be a fool not to default toward quinn because there is no inherent risk to his own job. Howeve IF he picked DA all of the risk of that decision would sit solely without any recourse on him
The Mob would not turn on Mangini IF DA did better after he was inserted..
The reasoning would be the same.... We did not know what the first round draft pick had and Mangini Wisely wanted to see so he could chart a direction.... He would not be crucified for that only IF he play DA as the starter over Quinn immediately because of the What if scenario on Quinn.... The same fans would be screaming about having to see what the first rounder was media hyped and draft status was supposed to be.
Greythan Math? this is not about math but job and career decisions.... More about personal risk assessment..
IF he think the two are close in practice scenarios than he would be a fool not to default toward quinn because there is no inherent risk to his own job. Howeve IF he picked DA all of the risk of that decision would sit solely without any recourse on him
The Mob would not turn on Mangini IF DA did better after he was inserted..
The reasoning would be the same.... We did not know what the first round draft pick had and Mangini Wisely wanted to see so he could chart a direction.... He would not be crucified for that only IF he play DA as the starter over Quinn immediately because of the What if scenario on Quinn.... The same fans would be screaming about having to see what the first rounder was media hyped and draft status was supposed to be.
Sorry, but fans will go mob with the following:
1. How could you not see DA was so much better than Quinn in practice/camp? He's a freakin NFL coach and he couldn't see that.
2. We just wasted and lost games because Mangini couldn't see how much better DA was than Quinn.
There was zero win/win for Mangini in this scenario other than if both don't pan out to be legit NFL starters. Because that is the only place where Mangini can throw his hands up and go not my guys.
-
So Sev you make my point yourself: there's no way Mangini starts Quinn unless they were at least "close". What does that say about DA based on your blasting of mr. noodle arm?
Face it, there's very little evidence based on professional talent evaluators (GM's and coaches) that would indicate DA is the solution.
-
More like occasionally brilliant, mostly bad. You apparently haven't watched his last 18-20 games, have you?
yes, he atleast scored touchdowns.
yes, he atleast scored touchdowns.
And threw a lot more INTs that lead to opposing scores. As its been pointed out, in 6 or so of his 9 starts in 2008 the Browns scored 11 or LESS. Doesn't seem too much different than what we have now.
-
@jadbf said:
Or maybe we can shut it down in anniversary of the 4INTs DA threw against Cincy in 2007?Wait we have to wait till december for taht one sorry.
But it least it coincides with the anniversary he threw 4 INTS against a bad Tampa Bay team. Can celebrate both on the same day.
-
Zombo said:
To be fair, I'm all for giving Quinn one more start for continuity's sake.But if it is Charlie Quinn again, I'm ready to pull the plug on him for now, for the main reason being that I'm not ready to concede the season.
If we wait until we are 0-8, then what is the use us going to Anderson then?
Mangini himself said the competition was "very close" and if CQ can't get things going in three starts then I think you have to give the bigger-armed, quicker-release guy a shot, hope that he has cleaned up some of his inconsistencies and that the team will rally around him not unlike 07 and give us some hope for the rest of the year.
I see a lot of people have written off the season already, I'm not one of them. Quinn needs to get us untracked this week or we need to go to Anderson to get things rolling. If he does no better and we are 0-8 anyway, then, sure play Quinn the last 8 games, I don't care, at that point you are just evaluating for 2010.
Zombo
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
-
Zombo said:
To be fair, I'm all for giving Quinn one more start for continuity's sake.But if it is Charlie Quinn again, I'm ready to pull the plug on him for now, for the main reason being that I'm not ready to concede the season.
If we wait until we are 0-8, then what is the use us going to Anderson then?
Mangini himself said the competition was "very close" and if CQ can't get things going in three starts then I think you have to give the bigger-armed, quicker-release guy a shot, hope that he has cleaned up some of his inconsistencies and that the team will rally around him not unlike 07 and give us some hope for the rest of the year.
I see a lot of people have written off the season already, I'm not one of them. Quinn needs to get us untracked this week or we need to go to Anderson to get things rolling. If he does no better and we are 0-8 anyway, then, sure play Quinn the last 8 games, I don't care, at that point you are just evaluating for 2010.
Zombo
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
and you think we're going to the playoffs? or have any pressure games? the season is conceded now, so i'd ask for a better excuse.
-
Zombo said:
To be fair, I'm all for giving Quinn one more start for continuity's sake.But if it is Charlie Quinn again, I'm ready to pull the plug on him for now, for the main reason being that I'm not ready to concede the season.
If we wait until we are 0-8, then what is the use us going to Anderson then?
Mangini himself said the competition was "very close" and if CQ can't get things going in three starts then I think you have to give the bigger-armed, quicker-release guy a shot, hope that he has cleaned up some of his inconsistencies and that the team will rally around him not unlike 07 and give us some hope for the rest of the year.
I see a lot of people have written off the season already, I'm not one of them. Quinn needs to get us untracked this week or we need to go to Anderson to get things rolling. If he does no better and we are 0-8 anyway, then, sure play Quinn the last 8 games, I don't care, at that point you are just evaluating for 2010.
Zombo
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
Thank-god the playoffs were on the line. After that first half of Game #1 in 2007, the season was as lost as it is today after Game #2.
To be able to point to the blocked field goal in Oakland or the 4-INT's when we decided to try and fool'em by passing in high winds in Cincy, or a last second ruling that Winslow was not-in in Arizona ... was exciting to say the least. Kind of like hanging onto the edge of your seat and eager to see one of our Receivers attempt to break 3-4 tackles on 3rd-n-7 for the first down yesterday.
-
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
and you think we're going to the playoffs? or have any pressure games? the season is conceded now, so i'd ask for a better excuse.
and you think we're going to the playoffs? or have any pressure games? the season is conceded now, so i'd ask for a better excuse.
Did I say that? Learn reading comprehension. The point is that DA isn't going to get this team much better either. Will Quinn get better? I have no idea. But I do know that not all QBs break out at the same pace. Once more, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, and Troy Aikman are perfect examples of that. At some point there has to be some patience to find out. IMO playing DA means the season is already over so they might as well spend the time to find out if Quinn will figure it out. Otherwise its time for a new QB because then neither one on the team will be the answer.
-
IF DA gets in there the season is already conceded. We already know he CAN'T perform under pressure or if the playoffs are on the line.
Thank-god the playoffs were on the line. After that first half of Game #1 in 2007, the season was as lost as it is today after Game #2.
To be able to point to the blocked field goal in Oakland or the 4-INT's when we decided to try and fool'em by passing in high winds in Cincy, or a last second ruling that Winslow was not-in in Arizona ... was exciting to say the least. Kind of like hanging onto the edge of your seat and eager to see one of our Receivers attempt to break 3-4 tackles on 3rd-n-7 for the first down yesterday.
Thank-god the playoffs were on the line. After that first half of Game #1 in 2007, the season was as lost as it is today after Game #2.
To be able to point to the blocked field goal in Oakland or the 4-INT's when we decided to try and fool'em by passing in high winds in Cincy, or a last second ruling that Winslow was not-in in Arizona ... was exciting to say the least. Kind of like hanging onto the edge of your seat and eager to see one of our Receivers attempt to break 3-4 tackles on 3rd-n-7 for the first down yesterday.
Yeah, exciting watching DA perform as usual under pressure and kill all hope for the fans. Yeah, exciting watching the team be on the outside once again. You know, for now, will all the problems this team appears to have, I'll put up with boring to find out if Quinn is or isn't the QB for the future than to go with exciting but heartbreaking with the guy we know ISN'T the future. Because if Quinn ain't it then its time to play lottery all over again and shell over big bucks for another unknown.
-
I will post this again.
I do not think that BQ has had any 4 interception games but then again I don't think BQ has had any 5 TD games either (since only 3 in 5 starts). DA had 2 multiple interception games in 2008 and 2 multiple TD games also and even though he had a horrible year he still threw more TDs than Interceptions. In 2007 DA had 4 multiple interception games and 10 multiple TD games. In 2006 he had 2 multiple TD games and 2 multiple Interception games. So in 31 total games DA has had 14 multiple TD games and 8 multiple Interception games. 23 games where he has thrown a TD and 21 games where he has thrown and Interception. So if DA throws a TD (74%) then he is 61% likely to throw 2 or more TDs and in games where DA throws a interception(68% of time) he is only 38% likely to have multiple interceptions.
BQ has throw a TD in 2 of his 5 starts (40%) and is likely to throw multiple TDs in half of those games (which equates to 20%) and he has thrown interceptions in 3 of his 5 starts (60%) and multiple interceptions in one of those games (also 20%).
That means that BQ throws an interception in 60% of his starts and DA throws interceptions in 68% of his. Not a real huge difference. Where as DA will throw a TD 74% of the time and BQ will throw a TD 40% of the time. DA will throw multiple TDs 45% of the time and BQ will throw multiple TDs 20% of the time. BQ will throw multiple interceptions 17% of the time and DA will throw multiple INTS 26% of the time.
I do not think that BQ has shown anything that would make me think that throwing a few less interceptions is worth throwing almost half as many TDs. And even in the last 18 games where DA has "Sucked" he does have a 9 - 9 record. BQ is now 1 - 4 and Baltimore will be very tough.
With that said I still say stay with BQ 10 games, only reason I would bench him is to save the 11 million bonus to invest in FA's next season. You realy do need to make sure BQ is not the answer because next years draft depends on what you think.
-
greythan the evidence about DA is in 10 wins, best franchise home record all time and 29tds 3700 yards in a season saddled with a terrible offense.
the 2008 season we everyone was banged up and our skill players lost their minds along with wierd offensive playcalling. The evidence is there that it is POSSIBLE that DA who from a 6th round practice squad guy held off a much wanted first rounder.....
Do I think DA is the absolute answer? NO but from the evidence of quinns last 4 starts he stagnates the offense and I would rather have a hot cold interception prone YOUNG gun slinger who at least can ignite the offense.
DA is young and can develop the same as quinn, however he has an NFL arm where quinn does not.
It really does not matter I think if BQ leads the teams offense to the same mediocrity for 2-3 more games a change will definately be coming. IF he lights it up or shows progress than he will probably be safe until the bye week if not the season. The next 2 games are crucial for his career and our teams direction this year and next.
We play the ravens which for quinn is more bad news and he might have a chance against Cinci...(they look improved and dangerous) and then Pittsburgh.... He would be possibly 1-4 at the best case 0-5 most likely. combine that with last year he might end up 1-7 for his first 8 games.
-
No way do you take Quinn out of this game or any game this season. Sadly, there has to be a lesson learned here.
No way do you take Quinn out of this game or any game this season. Sadly, there has to be a lesson learned here.
Quinn will get his chance but do you really think Mangini will let this go all season without playing anderson?
-
Quinn will get his chance but do you really think Mangini will let this go all season without playing anderson?
In 2007 Mangini benched Chad Pennington at the halfway mark. They were 1-7 at the time.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login