Finally....done with the horrble DW deal!!!!
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I don't know, Watson was part of the trade so in my mind we gave up 2 first round picks.
The Browns will receive Watson and a 2024 sixth-round draft choice (which was originally a fifth-round pick), while the Texans will receive a 2022 first-round pick (No. 13 overall), 2023 and 2024 first-round picks, a 2022 fourth-round choice (No. 107), a third-round pick in 2023 and a fourth-round pick in 2024.
The Browns will receive Watson and a 2024 sixth-round draft choice (which was originally a fifth-round pick), while the Texans will receive a 2022 first-round pick (No. 13 overall), 2023 and 2024 first-round picks, a 2022 fourth-round choice (No. 107), a third-round pick in 2023 and a fourth-round pick in 2024.
Ah, so that's where our 4th rounder went this year. Well at least it was later 4th round since we had a winning season.
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The Browns will receive Watson and a 2024 sixth-round draft choice (which was originally a fifth-round pick), while the Texans will receive a 2022 first-round pick (No. 13 overall), 2023 and 2024 first-round picks, a 2022 fourth-round choice (No. 107), a third-round pick in 2023 and a fourth-round pick in 2024.
Ah, so that's where our 4th rounder went this year. Well at least it was later 4th round since we had a winning season.
Ah, so that's where our 4th rounder went this year. Well at least it was later 4th round since we had a winning season.
Do you think Houston would trade CJ Stroud for Cheesecakes Mayfield? ?
Neither do I...
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The Browns will receive Watson and a 2024 sixth-round draft choice (which was originally a fifth-round pick), while the Texans will receive a 2022 first-round pick (No. 13 overall), 2023 and 2024 first-round picks, a 2022 fourth-round choice (No. 107), a third-round pick in 2023 and a fourth-round pick in 2024.
I know what the trade values were. My point is my valuation is the first year of picks don't count as extra. We received Watson in return. The 2nd and 3rd year are the extra picks. I think Berry has done a good job of covering the 3rd and 4th rounders so I don't think we lost much there.
My point is my valuation is the first year of picks don't count as extra. We received Watson in return.
So, we traded a 1st & a 4th round pick for Watson. Then we threw in some extra picks and they threw in a pick. Certainly sounds better than three 1st rounders.
Anywho, we're paid in full (outside of his salaries) on the investment. Now, we continue to wait for a return on the investment. And we can get back in the business of drafting on Thursday nights. Perhaps even drafting a QB in round 1. I mean, we can't see the future. There's a non zero chance that Watson never returns to form. After all, he did screw up his throwing shoulder.
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My point is my valuation is the first year of picks don't count as extra. We received Watson in return.
So, we traded a 1st & a 4th round pick for Watson. Then we threw in some extra picks and they threw in a pick. Certainly sounds better than three 1st rounders.
Anywho, we're paid in full (outside of his salaries) on the investment. Now, we continue to wait for a return on the investment. And we can get back in the business of drafting on Thursday nights. Perhaps even drafting a QB in round 1. I mean, we can't see the future. There's a non zero chance that Watson never returns to form. After all, he did screw up his throwing shoulder.
So, we traded a 1st & a 4th round pick for Watson. Then we threw in some extra picks and they threw in a pick. Certainly sounds better than three 1st rounders.
Anywho, we're paid in full (outside of his salaries) on the investment. Now, we continue to wait for a return on the investment. And we can get back in the business of drafting on Thursday nights. Perhaps even drafting a QB in round 1. I mean, we can't see the future. There's a non zero chance that Watson never returns to form. After all, he did screw up his throwing shoulder.
I will not argue against the after the fact issues, they are after the fact.
That;s a different topic of discussion.
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So, we traded a 1st & a 4th round pick for Watson. Then we threw in some extra picks and they threw in a pick. Certainly sounds better than three 1st rounders.
Anywho, we're paid in full (outside of his salaries) on the investment. Now, we continue to wait for a return on the investment. And we can get back in the business of drafting on Thursday nights. Perhaps even drafting a QB in round 1. I mean, we can't see the future. There's a non zero chance that Watson never returns to form. After all, he did screw up his throwing shoulder.
I will not argue against the after the fact issues, they are after the fact.
That;s a different topic of discussion.
That;s a different topic of discussion.
Yes.
This trade was modelled after the Rams Mathew Stafford trade. You're built to win now, but you don't have faith in your QB. There's no way to draft one, so trade for a proven talent. And like everything else, it's a great call if it works.
Last year at this time we had people predicting that Stef would be fired at the end of the season if Watson did not perform well. But somehow, with defense and smart coaching he won games while alternating two pathetic QB's. And then he altered his offense to accommodate Joe Flacco's game. Great work by Stef. But Trigger Finger Haslem still owns the team so It's possible that Stef only kicked the can down the road. Two of our top superstars (Watson & Chubb) are coming off of injuries & surgeries. We've brought in RB's to cover for Chubb...but there's only so much you can do to cover for your championship caliber QB. Without your championship QB, you're not a championship contender.
This will be the 3rd season for Watson. Third time is the charm, right? Super Bowl Browns.....Yeah!
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That;s a different topic of discussion.
Yes.
This trade was modelled after the Rams Mathew Stafford trade. You're built to win now, but you don't have faith in your QB. There's no way to draft one, so trade for a proven talent. And like everything else, it's a great call if it works.
Last year at this time we had people predicting that Stef would be fired at the end of the season if Watson did not perform well. But somehow, with defense and smart coaching he won games while alternating two pathetic QB's. And then he altered his offense to accommodate Joe Flacco's game. Great work by Stef. But Trigger Finger Haslem still owns the team so It's possible that Stef only kicked the can down the road. Two of our top superstars (Watson & Chubb) are coming off of injuries & surgeries. We've brought in RB's to cover for Chubb...but there's only so much you can do to cover for your championship caliber QB. Without your championship QB, you're not a championship contender.
This will be the 3rd season for Watson. Third time is the charm, right? Super Bowl Browns.....Yeah!
This will be the 3rd season for Watson. Third time is the charm, right? Super Bowl Browns.....Yeah!
I'm not going to be charmed until I see the injury does not affect his passing. I'm not yet convinced any more than when Fat Baker was trying to remain as the starter with his injury. Will the Browns make the same mistake twice out of desperation? They should have found a way to retain Flacco.
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This will be the 3rd season for Watson. Third time is the charm, right? Super Bowl Browns.....Yeah!
I'm not going to be charmed until I see the injury does not affect his passing. I'm not yet convinced any more than when Fat Baker was trying to remain as the starter with his injury. Will the Browns make the same mistake twice out of desperation? They should have found a way to retain Flacco.
They should have found a way to retain Flacco.
Ya know, I just don't think that they entertained that idea. Flacco is a very old school QB. As much as I (perhaps you, and others) would like/love that, it doesn't match the current organizational mindset. They want backup QB's to have traits to more match Watson and the rpo style.
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They should have found a way to retain Flacco.
Ya know, I just don't think that they entertained that idea. Flacco is a very old school QB. As much as I (perhaps you, and others) would like/love that, it doesn't match the current organizational mindset. They want backup QB's to have traits to more match Watson and the rpo style.
Ya know, I just don't think that they entertained that idea. Flacco is a very old school QB. As much as I (perhaps you, and others) would like/love that, it doesn't match the current organizational mindset. They want backup QB's to have traits to more match Watson and the rpo style.
Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.
I've already heard the "just wait until you see this new offense" noise again... I remember hearing the same thing prior to and during training camp last year, but during the season it just seems like Stefanski and RPO is a round peg/square hole situation.
It's one of the reasons I have serious doubts we'll ever see the 2018-2020 Watson here.
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Ya know, I just don't think that they entertained that idea. Flacco is a very old school QB. As much as I (perhaps you, and others) would like/love that, it doesn't match the current organizational mindset. They want backup QB's to have traits to more match Watson and the rpo style.
Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.
I've already heard the "just wait until you see this new offense" noise again... I remember hearing the same thing prior to and during training camp last year, but during the season it just seems like Stefanski and RPO is a round peg/square hole situation.
It's one of the reasons I have serious doubts we'll ever see the 2018-2020 Watson here.
Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.
Maybe you're right. But I'm not sure it matters....because I don't think that Haslem & DePo care what fits Stef better. I think those two have their vision and Berry & Stef have to march in that direction. - Plus, Flacco is too old to hitch a wagon to.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Ya know, I just don't think that they entertained that idea. Flacco is a very old school QB. As much as I (perhaps you, and others) would like/love that, it doesn't match the current organizational mindset. They want backup QB's to have traits to more match Watson and the rpo style.
Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.
I've already heard the "just wait until you see this new offense" noise again... I remember hearing the same thing prior to and during training camp last year, but during the season it just seems like Stefanski and RPO is a round peg/square hole situation.
It's one of the reasons I have serious doubts we'll ever see the 2018-2020 Watson here.
Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.
I've already heard the "just wait until you see this new offense" noise again... I remember hearing the same thing prior to and during training camp last year, but during the season it just seems like Stefanski and RPO is a round peg/square hole situation.
It's one of the reasons I have serious doubts we'll ever see the 2018-2020 Watson here.
Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.
I've already heard the "just wait until you see this new offense" noise again... I remember hearing the same thing prior to and during training camp last year, but during the season it just seems like Stefanski and RPO is a round peg/square hole situation.
It's one of the reasons I have serious doubts we'll ever see the 2018-2020 Watson here.
Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?
Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?
I think Taylor Swift is spoken for already.?
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Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.
Maybe you're right. But I'm not sure it matters....because I don't think that Haslem & DePo care what fits Stef better. I think those two have their vision and Berry & Stef have to march in that direction. - Plus, Flacco is too old to hitch a wagon to.
Maybe you're right. But I'm not sure it matters....because I don't think that Haslem & DePo care what fits Stef better. I think those two have their vision and Berry & Stef have to march in that direction. - Plus, Flacco is too old to hitch a wagon to.
The thing I don't quite get, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the party line is that the Browns brass wants the QB room to consist of QBs who play the same style, right?
But Winston IMO is closer to being Joe Flacco than he is being Deshaun Watson. I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong? Is he more of a running threat than I think?
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Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.
I've already heard the "just wait until you see this new offense" noise again... I remember hearing the same thing prior to and during training camp last year, but during the season it just seems like Stefanski and RPO is a round peg/square hole situation.
It's one of the reasons I have serious doubts we'll ever see the 2018-2020 Watson here.
Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?
Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?
Well it definitely didn't work out in 2014 when Jimmy did it... and it was lukewarm at best when Dorsey did it with the #1 overall pick a few years later... so why not?
Maybe we can tank for one of the young Ohio State QBs coming down the pike? I can already see it Flugs...
PRAYIN' FOR JULIAN SAYIN!
or
THROWIN' UP A PRAYER FOR TAVIAN ST. CLAIR!
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Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?
Well it definitely didn't work out in 2014 when Jimmy did it... and it was lukewarm at best when Dorsey did it with the #1 overall pick a few years later... so why not?
Maybe we can tank for one of the young Ohio State QBs coming down the pike? I can already see it Flugs...
PRAYIN' FOR JULIAN SAYIN!
or
THROWIN' UP A PRAYER FOR TAVIAN ST. CLAIR!
Well it definitely didn't work out in 2014 when Jimmy did it... and it was lukewarm at best when Dorsey did it with the #1 overall pick a few years later... so why not?
Maybe we can tank for one of the young Ohio State QBs coming down the pike? I can already see it Flugs...
PRAYIN' FOR JULIAN SAYIN!
or
THROWIN' UP A PRAYER FOR TAVIAN ST. CLAIR!
What has haunted this team is the absolute inability to: 1) draft the right QB in the NFL Draft; and 2) put the right people around the QB they do draft.
The last QB the Browns were successful drafting came out of the 1985 Supplemental Draft. Think back to how old you were when this happened. I was 21. The very next off-season, the Browns hired OC - Lindy Infante. They went from 8-8 behind Mack and Byner rushing for over 1000 yards apiece in 1985 to 12-4 with RBs combining for 117 receptions (Mack 28, Dickey 10, Byner 37, Fontenot 47) in 1986. Knowing defenses were chomping at the bits to stop Mack and Byner and blitz the cement shoed Kosar in year 2 - Infante chose to dictate the weekly chess matches. You want to zone blitz us? Ok, here's a little Herman Fontenot and Brian Brennan combining for 102 receptions almost exclusively on 3rd downs. Meanwhile, Byner and Mack could just as easily catch swing passes to the flats (which was fun to watch when that area of the defense was vacated by the designated zone blitzer). Talk about making life EASIER for a 2nd year QB - this was the best I've seen this team do in my lifetime.
When Jim Harbaugh went to play QB for the Colts, he credited Infante for being the best offensive coach he had tapping what he does best. I read an article where Harbaugh said he brought a lot of what Infante taught him to use with QBs he coached. He combined that with what he learned from other coaches but emphasized Infante's main principles for QBs eased and expedited the progressions.
All that to say, coaching has a profound impact on how well a QB develops as well as who you have protecting them. Watson is only going to turn 28 this year. QBs like Kurt Warner, Steve Young and Doug Williams didn't play their best football until after they were 28 years old. Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Fran Tarkenton and Jim Plunkett are other QBs that found more success in their later 20s/early 30s. I think I already shared in a previous thread the dreadful Terry Bradshaw's stats over his first 5-6 years he played; and got benched for guys like Terry Hanratty and Joe Gilliam. Sometimes it's needing more surrounding talent - other times it's the luck of having the right offensive mind assessing how to tweak his offense around the QB. The opposite of that is the square peg/round hole you alluded. FWIW, losing a 1st and 2nd string RT + whatever we continue to settle for at LT can lead to watching 5 different guys start at QB in 1 season. Any QB that confuses what he's here to do with thinking he's Larry Csonka initiating contact with LBers and DL - needs to be BENCHED by coaches or inevitable injury will do it for them. Coaching matters so it's a little disturbing to see them waiting until after Watson completed his 1st year here to start planning for the right system and adding coaches. Clemson and Houston were ready for Watson - can we honestly say the Browns were too?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
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Maybe you're right. But I'm not sure it matters....because I don't think that Haslem & DePo care what fits Stef better. I think those two have their vision and Berry & Stef have to march in that direction. - Plus, Flacco is too old to hitch a wagon to.
The thing I don't quite get, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the party line is that the Browns brass wants the QB room to consist of QBs who play the same style, right?
But Winston IMO is closer to being Joe Flacco than he is being Deshaun Watson. I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong? Is he more of a running threat than I think?
But Winston IMO is closer to being Joe Flacco than he is being Deshaun Watson. I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong? Is he more of a running threat than I think?
Why is it sticking in my craw that somewhere I read Stef commenting on Winston and saying something like he's much more capable on the move than people think?
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Maybe you're right. But I'm not sure it matters....because I don't think that Haslem & DePo care what fits Stef better. I think those two have their vision and Berry & Stef have to march in that direction. - Plus, Flacco is too old to hitch a wagon to.
The thing I don't quite get, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the party line is that the Browns brass wants the QB room to consist of QBs who play the same style, right?
But Winston IMO is closer to being Joe Flacco than he is being Deshaun Watson. I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong? Is he more of a running threat than I think?
I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong?
Why not? The RPO, built off the inside zone or even a QB centered inside zone read means the 'R' part of RPO is centered more around the RB than the QB. The mobility of the QB is just a plus when you want or need to use that athletic ability as a schematic advantage in building play designs off of, what we understand, as the simple stuff.
Winston isn't Lamar, but he has decent enough wheels like your classic mobile passers.
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Well it definitely didn't work out in 2014 when Jimmy did it... and it was lukewarm at best when Dorsey did it with the #1 overall pick a few years later... so why not?
Maybe we can tank for one of the young Ohio State QBs coming down the pike? I can already see it Flugs...
PRAYIN' FOR JULIAN SAYIN!
or
THROWIN' UP A PRAYER FOR TAVIAN ST. CLAIR!
What has haunted this team is the absolute inability to: 1) draft the right QB in the NFL Draft; and 2) put the right people around the QB they do draft.
The last QB the Browns were successful drafting came out of the 1985 Supplemental Draft. Think back to how old you were when this happened. I was 21. The very next off-season, the Browns hired OC - Lindy Infante. They went from 8-8 behind Mack and Byner rushing for over 1000 yards apiece in 1985 to 12-4 with RBs combining for 117 receptions (Mack 28, Dickey 10, Byner 37, Fontenot 47) in 1986. Knowing defenses were chomping at the bits to stop Mack and Byner and blitz the cement shoed Kosar in year 2 - Infante chose to dictate the weekly chess matches. You want to zone blitz us? Ok, here's a little Herman Fontenot and Brian Brennan combining for 102 receptions almost exclusively on 3rd downs. Meanwhile, Byner and Mack could just as easily catch swing passes to the flats (which was fun to watch when that area of the defense was vacated by the designated zone blitzer). Talk about making life EASIER for a 2nd year QB - this was the best I've seen this team do in my lifetime.
When Jim Harbaugh went to play QB for the Colts, he credited Infante for being the best offensive coach he had tapping what he does best. I read an article where Harbaugh said he brought a lot of what Infante taught him to use with QBs he coached. He combined that with what he learned from other coaches but emphasized Infante's main principles for QBs eased and expedited the progressions.
All that to say, coaching has a profound impact on how well a QB develops as well as who you have protecting them. Watson is only going to turn 28 this year. QBs like Kurt Warner, Steve Young and Doug Williams didn't play their best football until after they were 28 years old. Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Fran Tarkenton and Jim Plunkett are other QBs that found more success in their later 20s/early 30s. I think I already shared in a previous thread the dreadful Terry Bradshaw's stats over his first 5-6 years he played; and got benched for guys like Terry Hanratty and Joe Gilliam. Sometimes it's needing more surrounding talent - other times it's the luck of having the right offensive mind assessing how to tweak his offense around the QB. The opposite of that is the square peg/round hole you alluded. FWIW, losing a 1st and 2nd string RT + whatever we continue to settle for at LT can lead to watching 5 different guys start at QB in 1 season. Any QB that confuses what he's here to do with thinking he's Larry Csonka initiating contact with LBers and DL - needs to be BENCHED by coaches or inevitable injury will do it for them. Coaching matters so it's a little disturbing to see them waiting until after Watson completed his 1st year here to start planning for the right system and adding coaches. Clemson and Houston were ready for Watson - can we honestly say the Browns were too?
What has haunted this team is the absolute inability to: 1) draft the right QB in the NFL Draft; and 2) put the right people around the QB they do draft.......
. ...... AND .....
...... All that to say, coaching has a profound impact on how well a QB develops as well as who you have protecting them. Watson is only going to turn 28 this year. QBs like Kurt Warner, Steve Young and Doug Williams didn't play their best football until after they were 28 years old.
Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Fran Tarkenton and Jim Plunkett are other QBs that found more success in their later 20s/early 30s. I think I already shared in a previous thread the dreadful Terry Bradshaw's stats over his first 5-6 years he played; and got benched for guys like Terry Hanratty and Joe Gilliam. Sometimes it's needing more surrounding talent - other times it's the luck of having the right offensive mind assessing how to tweak his offense around the QB. The opposite of that is the square peg/round hole you alluded. FWIW, losing a 1st and 2nd string RT + whatever we continue to settle for at LT can lead to watching 5 different guys start at QB in 1 season.
Any QB that confuses what he's here to do with thinking he's Larry Csonka initiating contact with LBers and DL - needs to be BENCHED by coaches or inevitable injury will do it for them. Coaching matters so it's a little disturbing to see them waiting until after Watson completed his 1st year here to start planning for the right system and adding coaches. Clemson and Houston were ready for Watson - can we honestly say the Browns were too?
Astute observations by Mr Flugs with some old time NFL FOOTBALL players and our current Cleveland BROWNS situatations.
Even though we always wish for our BROWNS to do well in every season and in every situation ..... well this might be a tough one.
Let's hope our very high priced current. QB DW can come close to finishing a complete season -AND- put up some BIG numbers -AND- get into the PLAYOFFS -AND- win some games.
Asking too much ?
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong?
Why not? The RPO, built off the inside zone or even a QB centered inside zone read means the 'R' part of RPO is centered more around the RB than the QB. The mobility of the QB is just a plus when you want or need to use that athletic ability as a schematic advantage in building play designs off of, what we understand, as the simple stuff.
Winston isn't Lamar, but he has decent enough wheels like your classic mobile passers.
-
What has haunted this team is the absolute inability to: 1) draft the right QB in the NFL Draft; and 2) put the right people around the QB they do draft.......
. ...... AND .....
...... All that to say, coaching has a profound impact on how well a QB develops as well as who you have protecting them. Watson is only going to turn 28 this year. QBs like Kurt Warner, Steve Young and Doug Williams didn't play their best football until after they were 28 years old.
Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Fran Tarkenton and Jim Plunkett are other QBs that found more success in their later 20s/early 30s. I think I already shared in a previous thread the dreadful Terry Bradshaw's stats over his first 5-6 years he played; and got benched for guys like Terry Hanratty and Joe Gilliam. Sometimes it's needing more surrounding talent - other times it's the luck of having the right offensive mind assessing how to tweak his offense around the QB. The opposite of that is the square peg/round hole you alluded. FWIW, losing a 1st and 2nd string RT + whatever we continue to settle for at LT can lead to watching 5 different guys start at QB in 1 season.
Any QB that confuses what he's here to do with thinking he's Larry Csonka initiating contact with LBers and DL - needs to be BENCHED by coaches or inevitable injury will do it for them. Coaching matters so it's a little disturbing to see them waiting until after Watson completed his 1st year here to start planning for the right system and adding coaches. Clemson and Houston were ready for Watson - can we honestly say the Browns were too?
Astute observations by Mr Flugs with some old time NFL FOOTBALL players and our current Cleveland BROWNS situatations.
Even though we always wish for our BROWNS to do well in every season and in every situation ..... well this might be a tough one.
Let's hope our very high priced current. QB DW can come close to finishing a complete season -AND- put up some BIG numbers -AND- get into the PLAYOFFS -AND- win some games.
Asking too much ?
Astute observations by Mr Flugs with some old time NFL FOOTBALL players and our current Cleveland BROWNS situatations.
Even though we always wish for our BROWNS to do well in every season and in every situation ..... well this might be a tough one.
Let's hope our very high priced current. QB DW can come close to finishing a complete season -AND- put up some BIG numbers -AND- get into the PLAYOFFS -AND- win some games.
Asking too much ?
Thanks MJP! A lot of Stefanski earning the NFL Coach of the Year honor stemmed from what he did without Watson (using 4 other QBs). For example, the Joe Flacco no other teams wanted in 2023 suddenly had other teams interested once he played for Stefanski. Having said that, in the last game we watched Watson play - he looked much more like the player we thought we traded for. The Rats didn't have a solution for him when he heated up and led us to a comeback win. Hopefully that was what we will be seeing on a more regular basis.
I think we have a very talented team on both sides of the ball like 11 wins reminded us. It can probably go even better if we can keep at least 1 of our 2 very talented Right Tackles healthy. I hope this isn't just wishful thinking; but I think we'll have even better depth this year.
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