Currently our 2025 first round pick is....
-
I'd say my issue, with anything of what your saying, is that amount of assumption made. Winston was an all-american and national champion. Zappe' broke D-1 passing records as a Topper, DTR was an all conference QB twice.
There is no guarantee that the position is immediately improved (with Sanders I believe it is, even though I'd prefer he sit half a season) and that it will be "entertaining" when a rookie starts. Throwing a rookie out who may not be ready to start and negatively affecting their development is hardly an entertainment. And Ward still needs some serious work on this mechanics before he's ready to be a full-time *consistent* NFL passer.
No, losing games and making questionable NFL apples to apples decisions makes you a laughing stock. Draft strategy, especially when you say "we don't have him evaluated as high on our board" and your scouting pans out means, as the kids say "you keep receipts". The 2019 draft is another great example.
I'd suggest this, to the both of you. Look at the data the last 20 years on the amount of drafts that produced high level starters in the 1st round compared to multiple high-level busts. It's pretty telling. No, you don't stick your head in the sand. You wait until the opportune time, when you've identified "your guy" and then you move and invest the draft capital. That's, that's all. I think we understand each other.
Zappe was no not even spoken of as a top QB pick. He was chosen in the 4th round. DTR- again not considered a higher draft prospect.
Here's the data for you: https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb
2024 draft: 5 QBs starting from 1st round
2023 draft: 3 QBs starting: Young, Stroud, Richardson. Levis was high 2nd rounder
2022 only had 1 first - Pickett.
2021: kinda of a dud - Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields (could be a starter on our team), Mac Jones
2020: Burrow, Tua, Love, Hurts (2nd round)
Zappe was no not even spoken of as a top QB pick. He was chosen in the 4th round. DTR- again not considered a higher draft prospect.
Here's the data for you: https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb
2024 draft: 5 QBs starting from 1st round
2023 draft: 3 QBs starting: Young, Stroud, Richardson. Levis was high 2nd rounder
2022 only had 1 first - Pickett.
2021: kinda of a dud - Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields (could be a starter on our team), Mac Jones
2020: Burrow, Tua, Love, Hurts (2nd round)
Relevant data comparisons require, at bare minimum, 10 years. I've gone back 20...
And in this list, subtracting rookies because you want to have a clear view of whom more comes into play with a season of data, you have 7/14 picks that were severely over-drafted. Wilson, Lance, Fields, Jones, Pickett, Richardson, Levis. Young might make it 8/14 depending on how you weigh is career in Carolina so far.
QB is the most disgustingly over-drafted position in the sport because of that desperation. I'm taking a pragmatic and nuanced approach that acknowledges said over-draft mentality. If the QB isn't the 'clear-cut' guy, then it's an avoid.
-
Zappe was no not even spoken of as a top QB pick. He was chosen in the 4th round. DTR- again not considered a higher draft prospect.
Here's the data for you: https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb
2024 draft: 5 QBs starting from 1st round
2023 draft: 3 QBs starting: Young, Stroud, Richardson. Levis was high 2nd rounder
2022 only had 1 first - Pickett.
2021: kinda of a dud - Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields (could be a starter on our team), Mac Jones
2020: Burrow, Tua, Love, Hurts (2nd round)
Relevant data comparisons require, at bare minimum, 10 years. I've gone back 20...
And in this list, subtracting rookies because you want to have a clear view of whom more comes into play with a season of data, you have 7/14 picks that were severely over-drafted. Wilson, Lance, Fields, Jones, Pickett, Richardson, Levis. Young might make it 8/14 depending on how you weigh is career in Carolina so far.
QB is the most disgustingly over-drafted position in the sport because of that desperation. I'm taking a pragmatic and nuanced approach that acknowledges said over-draft mentality. If the QB isn't the 'clear-cut' guy, then it's an avoid.
Relevant data comparisons require, at bare minimum, 10 years. I've gone back 20...
And in this list, subtracting rookies because you want to have a clear view of whom more comes into play with a season of data, you have 7/14 picks that were severely over-drafted. Wilson, Lance, Fields, Jones, Pickett, Richardson, Levis. Young might make it 8/14 depending on how you weigh is career in Carolina so far.
QB is the most disgustingly over-drafted position in the sport because of that desperation. I'm taking a pragmatic and nuanced approach that acknowledges said over-draft mentality. If the QB isn't the 'clear-cut' guy, then it's an avoid.
Agree with a lot of what you say. We'll just see how it all pans out.
-
Another thing that is disgusting - the amount of all 22 on Shadeur vs about any other QB.
I'm trying to get through, at minimum, 6-8 games of each. Sanders was easy to dig up. Cam? Not so much.
For anyone wanting to jump in and talk some football, possibly follow along with my eval while I take a break from writing about the Browns season, you're more than welcomed too.
-
Another thing that is disgusting - the amount of all 22 on Shadeur vs about any other QB.
I'm trying to get through, at minimum, 6-8 games of each. Sanders was easy to dig up. Cam? Not so much.
For anyone wanting to jump in and talk some football, possibly follow along with my eval while I take a break from writing about the Browns season, you're more than welcomed too.
Another thing that is disgusting - the amount of all 22 on Shadeur vs about any other QB.
I'm trying to get through, at minimum, 6-8 games of each. Sanders was easy to dig up. Cam? Not so much.
For anyone wanted to jump in and talk some football, possibly follow along with my eval while I take a break from writing about the Browns season, you're more than welcomed too.
How many QBs do you think you'll evaluate?
I'd love to see your thoughts on why Beck regressed (his roster definitely was not as good as 2023), why Kyle McCord is still so low in the rankings, what other QBs you think would be worth a mid-round pick.
-
Excellent, spirited, passionate conversation regarding the QB's! I love it.
But, back to today: Our #1 need is for the Titans to win their game. If we can get to #2 then at least one of the 2 QB's will be there.....to be debated about.
#2 is a Patriots win. Same thing here except for sure one of the QB's will be gone.
If both the Patriots & Titans win, then we are king of the hill (of course I'm assuming that strength of schedule puts the Giants behind us).
-
Another thing that is disgusting - the amount of all 22 on Shadeur vs about any other QB.
I'm trying to get through, at minimum, 6-8 games of each. Sanders was easy to dig up. Cam? Not so much.
For anyone wanted to jump in and talk some football, possibly follow along with my eval while I take a break from writing about the Browns season, you're more than welcomed too.
How many QBs do you think you'll evaluate?
I'd love to see your thoughts on why Beck regressed (his roster definitely was not as good as 2023), why Kyle McCord is still so low in the rankings, what other QBs you think would be worth a mid-round pick.
How many QBs do you think you'll evaluate?
I'd love to see your thoughts on why Beck regressed (his roster definitely was not as good as 2023), why Kyle McCord is still so low in the rankings, what other QBs you think would be worth a mid-round pick.
My focus this year will be offense. I'd like to get the top 8 done, before moving onto the Oline (really miss Tour for this one)
McCord still has the albatross of his play in the B1G around his neck. The 'Cuse schedule, defensively speaking, was also pretty smooth. The Orange aired the fuck out of the ball and the top defense they played clocked in at 28th (UNLV) while getting assists in playing Miami (90th) PITT (91st) Ga Tech (72) etc etc.
Syracuse didn't stop most offenses and most didn't stop them. Plus McCord had processing speed and ball placement issues at times in his OSU career. Some of them mental, others mechanically. Remains to be seen if those are fixed or if the step down in defensive competition caused the stat explosion?
I'll get back to you on both. But QB's "worth" a mid-round pick? Likely none. I don't see anything I could get in the 3rd that couldn't be had in the 5th at the moment.
I'm sure Will Howards name will come up from proximity alone. But I struggle to find any real difference between him and JT Barrett.
-
Haven't read through the whole thread but what do you guys think about Abdul Carter, the edge from Penn State for our 1st pick? Wouldn't he be more of an immediate impact player opposite Myles and also insurance if Myles demands a trade?
-
Haven't read through the whole thread but what do you guys think about Abdul Carter, the edge from Penn State for our 1st pick? Wouldn't he be more of an immediate impact player opposite Myles and also insurance if Myles demands a trade?
Haven't read through the whole thread but what do you guys think about Abdul Carter, the edge from Penn State for our 1st pick? Wouldn't he be more of an immediate impact player opposite Myles and also insurance if Myles demands a trade?
He's definitely on the short-list of players that should be considered at the top of the draft for me.
The Browns need a dynamic edge player regardless if Myles will be on the roster in 2025 or not.
-
Haven't read through the whole thread but what do you guys think about Abdul Carter, the edge from Penn State for our 1st pick? Wouldn't he be more of an immediate impact player opposite Myles and also insurance if Myles demands a trade?
He's definitely on the short-list of players that should be considered at the top of the draft for me.
The Browns need a dynamic edge player regardless if Myles will be on the roster in 2025 or not.
He's definitely on the short-list of players that should be considered at the top of the draft for me.
The Browns need a dynamic edge player regardless if Myles will be on the roster in 2025 or not.
Improving the defense will probably give us more bang for the buck than shooting for questionable QBs in the first round.
-
He's definitely on the short-list of players that should be considered at the top of the draft for me.
The Browns need a dynamic edge player regardless if Myles will be on the roster in 2025 or not.
Improving the defense will probably give us more bang for the buck than shooting for questionable QBs in the first round.
Improving the defense will probably give us more bang for the buck than shooting for questionable QBs in the first round.
If a Justin Herbert-type guy was sitting at top of the draft, I'd be all for it.
But yes, there are a ton of DLine guys specifically that I like, along with OTackles.
I'm hoping we finish #1, and trade down.
-
There's no 1st rd talent (generational imo) at QB. We have 2nd pick overall. What kind of haul could we get for that. Would have to be pretty good.
-
There's no 1st rd talent (generational imo) at QB. We have 2nd pick overall. What kind of haul could we get for that. Would have to be pretty good.
There's no 1st rd talent (generational imo) at QB. We have 2nd pick overall. What kind of haul could we get for that. Would have to be pretty good.
Well, according to your 1st phrase...who the hell would trade with us? That would be stupid wouldn't it?
-
Well, according to your 1st phrase...who the hell would trade with us? That would be stupid wouldn't it?
There are other stupid teams. We are not the only one
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
There's no 1st rd talent (generational imo) at QB. We have 2nd pick overall. What kind of haul could we get for that. Would have to be pretty good.
-
-
-
There are other stupid teams. We are not the only one
Fact
-
Agreed. Generation talent means once in a generation. You rarely have those in the draft.
Cam Ward is very good and could become great if the Browns organization was top notch, presently it is too disorganized to nurture talent. Lamarr Jackson wasn't considered a great QB in his draft but look at where he is now with a stable organization and good coaching.
-
Agreed. Generation talent means once in a generation. You rarely have those in the draft.
Cam Ward is very good and could become great if the Browns organization was top notch, presently it is too disorganized to nurture talent. Lamarr Jackson wasn't considered a great QB in his draft but look at where he is now with a stable organization and good coaching.
Cam Ward is very good and could become great if the Browns organization was top notch, presently it is too disorganized to nurture talent. Lamarr Jackson wasn't considered a great QB in his draft but look at where he is now with a stable organization and good coaching.
I'd 100% take Cam at #2. I wouldn't be surprised if the Titans take him #1 though.
-
Trade back and build up draft capital
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login