The Official Browns at Patriots Game 8 Thread
-
-
Sep 20, 2025The Cleveland Browns are drawing heavy criticism after starting the 2025 season with consecutive losses. Head coach Kevin Stefanski promised fans a clear offensive plan, but the unit continues struggling to find consistency through two games. Several question whether rookies Dillon Gabriel or ...
-
https://sports.yahoo.com/article/former-steelers-oc-bruce-arians-192843959.html
"
As the Steelers and the Browns prepare for their divisional matchup in Week 6, Pittsburgh's former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians offered some brutal criticism of Cleveland's head coach Kevin Stefanski.
On Tuesday, Arians made a guest appearance on The Pat McAfee Show and was asked to give his opinion on Stefanski — to which the former Steelers offensive coordinator offered this savage response:
"I don't know how he's kept his job this long,"
." -
ok, I mentioned the play-calling. At times, it was pitiful. Stefudski doesn't get it, doesn't have the instincts to be a head coach.
Guess what I just found:
Today Explore Mike Vrabel's bold criticism of Kevin Stefanski's play calling following the Browns' disappointing loss. Don't miss the insights!"During a press conference, Vrabel addressed the game with a focus on the Browns’ offensive decisions. He described the play calling as “questionable,” suggesting that the strategies employed did not effectively utilize the team’s strengths. The bluntness of his critique underscored the frustrations that can arise after a game where the outcome starkly contrasts expectations." -
ok, I mentioned the play-calling. At times, it was pitiful. Stefudski doesn't get it, doesn't have the instincts to be a head coach.
Guess what I just found:
Today Explore Mike Vrabel's bold criticism of Kevin Stefanski's play calling following the Browns' disappointing loss. Don't miss the insights!"During a press conference, Vrabel addressed the game with a focus on the Browns’ offensive decisions. He described the play calling as “questionable,” suggesting that the strategies employed did not effectively utilize the team’s strengths. The bluntness of his critique underscored the frustrations that can arise after a game where the outcome starkly contrasts expectations.""During a press conference, Vrabel addressed the game with a focus on the Browns’ offensive decisions. He described the play calling as “questionable,” suggesting that the strategies employed did not effectively utilize the team’s strengths. The bluntness of his critique underscored the frustrations that can arise after a game where the outcome starkly contrasts expectations."
What offensive team strengths does this team have?
-
"During a press conference, Vrabel addressed the game with a focus on the Browns’ offensive decisions. He described the play calling as “questionable,” suggesting that the strategies employed did not effectively utilize the team’s strengths. The bluntness of his critique underscored the frustrations that can arise after a game where the outcome starkly contrasts expectations."
What offensive team strengths does this team have?
What offensive team strengths does this team have?
Andrew Callahan@_AndrewCallahanMike Vrabel: “When their gimmick plays ran out, we played pretty good defense.”
-
Sep 20, 2025The Cleveland Browns are drawing heavy criticism after starting the 2025 season with consecutive losses. Head coach Kevin Stefanski promised fans a clear offensive plan, but the unit continues struggling to find consistency through two games. Several question whether rookies Dillon Gabriel or ...Sep 20, 2025The Cleveland Browns are drawing heavy criticism after starting the 2025 season with consecutive losses. Head coach Kevin Stefanski promised fans a clear offensive plan, but the unit continues struggling to find consistency through two games. Several question whether rookies Dillon Gabriel or ...
Not correct. The Browns have 2 Generals in charge of their offense: General Confusion and General Panic
-
The owner is tanking before the new stadium move. Hoping rookies bring some excitement.
-
I think the analytics were wrong on Gabriel and the football guys were right. I'm sure he has a high football IQ, but not the physical traits to be an NFL QB at least not enough to overcome his size.
Sanders doesn't have the IQ, and has showed F tier pocket presence in pre season. The season is dead but at least there's next year.
I think it makes sense to give Gabriel the jets and then give sanders some games, evaluate what you got.
-
"During a press conference, Vrabel addressed the game with a focus on the Browns’ offensive decisions. He described the play calling as “questionable,” suggesting that the strategies employed did not effectively utilize the team’s strengths. The bluntness of his critique underscored the frustrations that can arise after a game where the outcome starkly contrasts expectations."
What offensive team strengths does this team have?
What offensive team strengths does this team have?
Well.......anyone gonna step up to the plate and answer that question?
It's NOT running between the Tackles...right?
It's NOT running outside of the Tackles...right?
It's NOT throwing to the outside WR's...right?
We don't have a magical Wes Welker slot guy right?
We have a couple of good TE's.....a midget QB....and an woefully underperforming offensive line. What are ya going to do with that?
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
What offensive team strengths does this team have?
Well.......anyone gonna step up to the plate and answer that question?
It's NOT running between the Tackles...right?
It's NOT running outside of the Tackles...right?
It's NOT throwing to the outside WR's...right?
We don't have a magical Wes Welker slot guy right?
We have a couple of good TE's.....a midget QB....and an woefully underperforming offensive line. What are ya going to do with that?
Well.......anyone gonna step up to the plate and answer that question?
It's NOT running between the Tackles...right?
It's NOT running outside of the Tackles...right?
It's NOT throwing to the outside WR's...right?
We don't have a magical Wes Welker slot guy right?
We have a couple of good TE's.....a midget QB....and an woefully underperforming offensive line. What are ya going to do with that?
Punt.
-
Back up to #4 in the draft. Tank-a-thon is real
With all the great No. 1 picks the Browns have had........
With all the great No. 1 picks the Browns have had........
We had a guy, that drafted a GREAT No. 1 pick. He was fired, by an incompetent owner, that listens to NON-FOOTBALL people
I’m no Baker Boy, but DAMN, he is better then any person Berry has ever drafted.
Jimmy is a LOSER. And always will be
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
I think the analytics were wrong on Gabriel and the football guys were right. I'm sure he has a high football IQ, but not the physical traits to be an NFL QB at least not enough to overcome his size.
Sanders doesn't have the IQ, and has showed F tier pocket presence in pre season. The season is dead but at least there's next year.
I think it makes sense to give Gabriel the jets and then give sanders some games, evaluate what you got.
I think the analytics were wrong on Gabriel and the football guys were right. I'm sure he has a high football IQ, but not the physical traits to be an NFL QB at least not enough to overcome his size.
Sanders doesn't have the IQ, and has showed F tier pocket presence in pre season. The season is dead but at least there's next year.
I think it makes sense to give Gabriel the jets and then give sanders some games, evaluate what you got.
What makes sense is, hire FOOTBALL PEOPLE TO DRAFT FOOTBALL PLAYERS
-
What offensive team strengths does this team have?
Well.......anyone gonna step up to the plate and answer that question?
It's NOT running between the Tackles...right?
It's NOT running outside of the Tackles...right?
It's NOT throwing to the outside WR's...right?
We don't have a magical Wes Welker slot guy right?
We have a couple of good TE's.....a midget QB....and an woefully underperforming offensive line. What are ya going to do with that?
Well.......anyone gonna step up to the plate and answer that question?
It's NOT running between the Tackles...right?
It's NOT running outside of the Tackles...right?
It's NOT throwing to the outside WR's...right?
We don't have a magical Wes Welker slot guy right?
We have a couple of good TE's.....a midget QB....and an woefully underperforming offensive line. What are ya going to do with that?
It seems like most of the time, we will score less points than the other team with that.
-
With all the great No. 1 picks the Browns have had........
We had a guy, that drafted a GREAT No. 1 pick. He was fired, by an incompetent owner, that listens to NON-FOOTBALL people
I’m no Baker Boy, but DAMN, he is better then any person Berry has ever drafted.
Jimmy is a LOSER. And always will be
We had a guy, that drafted a GREAT No. 1 pick. He was fired, by an incompetent owner, that listens to NON-FOOTBALL people
I’m no Baker Boy, but DAMN, he is better then any person Berry has ever drafted.
Jimmy is a LOSER. And always will be
John Dorsey picked the third best quarterback of the 2018 NFL Draft with that first overall pick.
-
We had a guy, that drafted a GREAT No. 1 pick. He was fired, by an incompetent owner, that listens to NON-FOOTBALL people
I’m no Baker Boy, but DAMN, he is better then any person Berry has ever drafted.
Jimmy is a LOSER. And always will be
John Dorsey picked the third best quarterback of the 2018 NFL Draft with that first overall pick.
John Dorsey picked the third best quarterback of the 2018 NFL Draft with that first overall pick.
He is still better than Watson Gabriel or Sanders
-
John Dorsey picked the third best quarterback of the 2018 NFL Draft with that first overall pick.
He is still better than Watson Gabriel or Sanders
He is still better than Watson Gabriel or Sanders
In related news, water is wet.
-
Let me ask you an honest question. I’m not trying to get your goat.
I had never heard this phrase before and had to look it up.
Bubs, honest questions never vex me.
How many years does Kevin get a pass for “bad roster” until we think it’s more than roster personnel issues? Is it after the Watson contract is off the books?
Great question.
The Watson contract itself is irrelevant, as all dollar amounts are. There's another cost I don't think you're considering here, which is far more important - the lost draft capital. Three straight seasons of a lost 1st round pick. That's three straight years without a needed infusion of young talent to your roster. 3 years can be a blink when things are good, it can be an eternity when it's bad. We experience the latter.
I have to ask a follow up question - how do we feel Kevin has done when we know he's had solid talent? Because a play or two away from an AFC championship game seems to be the high water mark. What happened in those seasons?
2022 - A game away from a wildcard berth. All while being saddled with Jacoby Brissett and a porous defense. That's almost identical to the same results Kyle Shanahan produced here with Brian Hoyer and a porous defense in 2014.
2023 - Your Ultra-paid QB begins turning out to be a bust. Your star RB is lost, and you end up starting a 40 year old Joe Flacco. Now, through both some bold choices and a favorable stretch of schedule, we happen to land a wild-card berth. One we had our asses handed to us in. But a combination of good fortune and decent coaching got us there despite injuries and the elephant in the room (Watson)
2024 - It all comes crashing down with Watson. You end up starting Watson, lose 6 games that were within 1 score, you start DTR for two games, all while the rest of the roster gets older and more hurt.
2025 - What looks to be a fantastic draft. Downside; your starting QB is an over-drafted, slight of build rookie who is beyond a bottom 3 OT situation while your IOL is now even more old and hurt. Your defense is fantastic, but you lack your offenses version of Myles Garrett. I think Judkins is going to be a good running back, possibly bordering on great. But RB's, like QB's, suffer behind bad Oline's. Especially rookies.
So I suppose the new question becomes - has Andrew Berry armed our head coach with enough talent to consistently win against other teams in the NFL that would prove our HC is the talent "bottleneck"...?
If you believe Andrew Berry has been bad at drafting, then it would be a complete contradiction to say that Stef hasn't suffered from a dearth of NFL ability in the locker room.
when I see his coaching tree or peers (KOC , Lafluer, Shanahan, Steichen, etc) maximizing talent with cast offs ,injuries , and just otherwise similar talent , when does Kevin get the piss for wildly underperforming offense? I mean surely, at some point the finger has to point to him right ? By all accounts Gabriel was his guy, and this is awful.
Glad you brought this up.
KOC is a good coach. But let's be real about something - he got a good season out of Sam Darnold, a former first round pick, while having the best pass blocking OL on the planet along with a great trio of receivers, including the best WR on said planet.
Yet, with all that talent, the Vikings were still butchered when it mattered most - by the Rams in the playoffs. We know that Darnold can be a capable QB with a great-to-elite surrounding roster. So we know he is where the talent bottleneck lies.
How has that looked for KOC this season though? He was handed JJ McCarthy and Carson Wentz. His Oline went to shit through injury and the Vikings are getting their doors blown off by better teams. Is that his fault? Or is he trying to work with the ingredients he has? Because the Vikings do suck. Do we know that KOC is an amazing head coach because he got one above average season out of Darnold? Then we point back to the surrounding talent and playoff results. If your rebuttal is that "Well, he beat Stefanksi"... then where down the intersectionality of winning/losing to coaches does our assessment fall?
I recognize KoC as a good HC and I know he's been handed a shitty situation, don't you? If so, why can that same logic not follow for Stefanski? We believe him to be a solid coach, but we invalidate that by not recognizing the bad drafts every other year sans once every 5 seasons.
How often it is that people forget that Shanahan had a losing record 3 of his first 4 years. Once the roster was built up, they had a great 3 year stretch. Then the roster got old, hurt, a few questionable drafts (including their own version of Watson with the Trey Lance deal) now it's a losing season and unless things pick up, they'll having back to back losing seasons.
Kyle Shanahan has as many seasons with a losing record that he does with a winning record. Yet I don't hide my admiration for him as a coach, play designer and play caller. Because he can consistently get good results from an "ok" roster. But that doesn't mean he's having winning seasons with those squads either. He was almost run out of San Fran at one point early in his career.
Lafluer has a losing playoff record, despite walking into, what was one of the easiest divisions in football at the time. There is plenty of talk about him not being the man for the job because he can't get the Packers to win big games in the post-season. Much like with any coach though, it's worth comparing rosters. Matt LaFleur has had some great players in his offense and has some good players now. Does he have elite talent in 2025? No, but that roster isn't wildly deficient at any one group.
That's another point of contention fans need to take into account. Every time this team has had systemic failure, it has been from the front office either not addressing, drafting poorly, or injuries at any one singular position group that drags down the rest of the ship.
There isn't a coach on the list you've provided that hasn't suffered that. Only difference is they've also had seasons with more superior talent as well.
I’ve said multiple times I think Kev is an above average coach. I just think the puzzle pieces are not fitting anymore.
Genuinely no idea what this is supposed to mean. So I'll leave you with a music quote - "I know the pieces fit".
edit: This part isn't directed at you @jrb12711
I've noticed the more I'm getting into publishing more work, the more I found people haven't played beyond maybe rec or youth level. The more I'm also noticing I'm having discussions with people who use a video game (Madden) as their reference point for the game of football.
For anyone reading along who may fall into that category, I'll ask you a question that you only have to answer in your own head.
If you and I were to play a game of Madden (it's been SO damn long, maybe I should?) and you were forced to play as the Browns while I got to pick, let's say, Detroit, Buffalo or New England. Do you think our competition level, the respective strengths of each roster, would they compare favorably to each other? And if not, which roster spots would look wildly different from their counterpart on the opposite team?
Once you've asked yourself that question, about the roster spots, fairness, etc etc... Imagine this - what overcoming that discrepancy must be like for any NFL coach in the real world.
Food for thought.
I had never heard this phrase before and had to look it up.
Bubs, honest questions never vex me.
Aren't you in NC? Get your Goat was something I heard that shit all the time growing up as a kid in the Carolinas.
Responding in no particular order:
1) I get Watson saddled this team down hard, and not unlike Tua in Miami right now you have to play the guy who is earning that level of cheddar. But your points are all circling to my central thought around all this- has Kevin's scheme, offensive philosophy, and talent evaluation (which I'm overtly including the GM, etc in that) run it's course? Has the process gotten stale to the point where even if we had more solid play making, would it show in the record?
2) A la Shanny- I've never been to suggest Kevin deserves a short leash. It's apparent that this squad blows and sucked last year as well. But to your point, there has to at least be something there, IMO, that shows a coach is getting the most out of the roster they do have. I'm not even suggesting that turns into a playoff berth or winning record, but the performance yesterday was ungodly flat. Like, hard to watch flat. Vrabel said it best -when the trick plays ran out, we could stop them. I think Stefanski did an incredible job of this in 2023, but the last two years have been an absolute disaster. Scoring more than 20 points 4 times in the last 25+ games is an absolutely brutal call to this.
So the question becomes at the broad level- is this truly a talent problem, or is Kevin's evolution as an offensive mind running dry? Does, as I've mentioned, need to be recalibrated with a fresh start somewhere else? I want to make it clear that I'm not overtly on one side of the fence or the other (although my feet are probably dangling on the parting of ways).
What I really can't get over in the immediate is that Dillon was his guy. It may end up coming out that the plan all along was to draft him as a high level back-up (Chase Daniels) type, punt this season, and God willing get the dude next year. It would be prudent to do that, candidly, given the Watson contract and draft capital. But when you have a dude out there who is dead last in YPA, air yards per throw, and 2nd to last in QBR (and essentially dead last) in an extended sample size, knowing that's the dude you reached for? Not ideal.
Lastly, funny enough? The Browns in the initial rankings of Madden 25 the Browns were only slightly considered worse than Buffalo (88 to 87), and above both Detroit and New England: https://www.gamesradar.com/games/madden-nfl/madden-25-best-teams/. Makes you think-
-
I only watched parts of the first half and around last 5 minutes of the game to watch a turnover turn into negative two points. Of note Shedeur made that play backed up in his end zone in the preseason. Can anyone tell me if Dillon stretched the field at all?
I only watched parts of the first half and around last 5 minutes of the game to watch a turnover turn into negative two points. Of note Shedeur made that play backed up in his end zone in the preseason. Can anyone tell me if Dillon stretched the field at all?
He did. He was late and he under threw Bond early in the game. Ball should have been out sooner and on a line. This showcased the lack of arm talent
Early second half he threw into double coverage (maybe a 50 yard heave) defender made a great catch.
-
"During a press conference, Vrabel addressed the game with a focus on the Browns’ offensive decisions. He described the play calling as “questionable,” suggesting that the strategies employed did not effectively utilize the team’s strengths. The bluntness of his critique underscored the frustrations that can arise after a game where the outcome starkly contrasts expectations."
What offensive team strengths does this team have?
What offensive team strengths does this team have?
TBH we have two Pro-bowlers on offense, why aren't plays called for Njoku or Jeudy? I know the latter has had the dropsies but you have to coach him through it. Thrash had an excellent camp but plays are now being called for Isaiah Bond when he clearly isn't ready for the NFL.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login